Should be stamped to every PC performance thread.
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Deus Ex: Mankind Divided review embargo lifts on 8/19
- Thread starter Drewfonse
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Should be stamped to every PC performance thread.
StereoVsn
Member
Depends on settings I would think as well as COU type and RAM. Overall at higher settings considering the VRAM usage 870 is not going to do too well I would think (again looking at benchmarks).
StereoVsn
Member
At the same time it's not an excuse for shoddy performance.
Never was. Never will be.
Laurentius
Member
I don't think the point was using it to excuse shoddy performance...the point was you shouldn't judge the optimization of a game because it has options for certain very taxing settings.
I think we need to wait until we've seen a lot more testing of the game with various settings before we can call it unoptimized or a poor PC port.
dr_rus
Member
The obvious problem here is that it doesn't look like it's pushing anything.
Its pushing something.
Laurentius
Member
So this is the game's permadeath difficulty...
Just because it doesn't "look" that way doesn't mean it isn't.
Things like full resolution contact hardening shadows, full resolution volumetric lights these are all very high end features that require lots of power, but ultimately in terms of appearance can look very similar to lower resolution implementation if that lower res implementation is done properly..atleast at 1080P.
If the game really was unoptimised then it would run like crap (literally crap, not slightly below expectations or such) even in high settings but it doesn't leading to the conclusion that there is something with the ultra settings themselves that causes this hit.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=885444
Robobandit
Member
There are always diminishing returns on these things the higher up you go. Some things are just more expensive computationally without a huge visual benefit.. especially when people are using youtube for their comparisons, which we all know is highly compressed.
High compares very favorably w/ respect to ultra in the videos we've seen.. maybe the difference will be more apparent in person than it is w/ youtube videos.
Agent_4Seven
Tears of Nintendo
DXMD? Graphical boundaries? Yeah, right)))))))
But it's unoptimised. There's absolutely nothing in there that 1070 can't handle in goddamn 1080p.
Not helping, at all.
I've bought 1070 for 40K RUB not for 44-54 FPS in 1080p 8/
For sure the differences will be more apparent if you were to play the game at resolutions above 1080P.
comshoplesce
Member
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35,89$
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35,89$
or use cdkeys.com but don't forget FB LIKE which you get 5% discount
Saiyan-Rox
Member
woah i'm so tempted to cancel my PC order after seeing that
My poor 980
EDIT: ah VHQ settings that was...i really need a new GPU I just upgraded to a skylake a few weeks back.
My poor 980
EDIT: ah VHQ settings that was...i really need a new GPU I just upgraded to a skylake a few weeks back.
Agent_4Seven
Tears of Nintendo
Goddamn it, the game runs like crap on pretty much every single card in 1080p, you can only get solid 60 with SLI in 1080p (!!!). 44-54 FPS in 1080p with 1070 is NOT ACCEPTABLE in this universe. If you think that it's fine for you it does not mean that is fine for others. Period.
Ending a post with period won't make you right if you can't even care to understand what you are replying to. I made an entire argument about performance at ultra is not indicative of optimisation because of the fact that they use things normally unseen or things that are experimental (full res buffers, higher hair sampling, contact hardening shadows). Read up and understand first what these things do and how these can affect performance before you make your broad stroke claims.
You can get 1080P/60FPS at high...the existence of a higher quality option that tanks the performance is not evidence of poor optimisation. Anyone with a sense of technicality about game graphics would understand this. I quoted a post made by Durante that said the same...unless you wanna say he's wrong as well?
Experimental features will tank performance even on the strongest machines that's why they are experimental. If the game was really unoptimised it wouldn't run well on high either. Is that really so hard to understand?
MasterMenace
Member
I'm playing on PS4, but are people complaining because the PC version doesn't hit 1080/60 with EVERY setting maxed out?
dr_rus
Member
That's your mistake, right there. If something is running as if it's pushing something but you can't actually see anything worthy and you have examples of games which look better while providing higher performance - then it's not "pushing" anything, it's just spending system resources on doing graphics in a bad way. I.e. it is badly optimized.
Yeah, let's take a look at the contact hardening shadows. The Division with HFTS which is miles above any contact hardening shadow solution from AMD I've seen since early DX11 days (i.e. it is actually pushing graphics boundaries) is running at 81 fps on a 1080 totally maxed out. This game in the same mode on the same card is showing 66 fps while running a much worse version of said shadows. What does that tell you?
Same can be said about volumetric lights which are probably done via some compute shader again instead of using geometry h/w or volumetric tiled resources.
Same goes for that POM floor on the shot above where a geometric displacement would actually provided a much better quality but alas you need a good geometry pipeline for this.
So don't tell me that it's pushing something. From all the screenshots and videos I've seen it's pretty clear that it doesn't. It tries to dance around AMD h/w weaknesses while completely avoiding the possibilities which are present on NV's. Which is completely in line with what I'd expected from an AMD sponsored title but in no way does it push any boundary. The performance on Ultra there is just a result of them going brute force in sampling+precision on same console shaders instead of using different approaches which actually allow to push boundaries.
Any word on the difference between Challenge and Deus Ex? Would like it to be a fair bit challenging but would prefer to play with whatever they designed the game toward.
Agent_4Seven
Tears of Nintendo
Oh really? Then please go and tell this to Arkham City in DX11 which not a single GPU in the world can handle even now because it is unoptimized and not because modern GPUs is not powerful enough, but because no one even bothered to optimize the game to work with DX11 features (almost the same story with DXMD, but on Ultra settings).
This.
Laurentius
Member
What does Arkham City have to do with Mankind Divided?
The point is we can't judge the game's performance or optimization yet if the only benchmarks we have are from max settings.
Agent_4Seven
Tears of Nintendo
Arkham City also runs like crap on max settings (DX11) even today and after 5 years. I've tested DX11 features of this game last year with my 980 and it runs like shit.
But there's also a video showing that high settings is much less demanding.
Anyway, all of this was obvious right from the start and I was expecting this after shitty Hitman port and at some extent Rise of the Tomb Raider.
Movalpolos
Banned
It's no secret that most devs/pubs put less time and effort into PC ports.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
The german streamer said it doesn't look like it's unoptimized. Also, Ultra settings are not worth it in the least. Very little graphical gains and big hit in frame rate. So I think you'll be fine with Medium/High/Very High mixed settings with a GTX 970 at 1080/60.
MasterMenace
Member
Are you implying the PS4 version is super optimized? Because it's not. I've read that there some under 30 fps dips in the game. Doesn't seem the game should be straining the system. I think it's something to do with the engine? We'll just have to wait for Eidos Montreal to release patches.
Hence they gave it to Nixxes so PC port would have dedicated team working on it long term.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
What a telling response.
CrichtonKicks
Member
I pretty much play through Arkham City annually and played it at perfect 60 fps DX11 last year on a 970 without issue.
The port is made by Nixxes. I'm going to go ahead and say it will end up running just fine. You guys know that you don't need to max every single setting, right?
There is no need for spouting bile like this either.
It's the truth, though.
These people don't listen to reason (Durante wrote a great post about this that just came and went like a fart in the wind), so I'll treat them like what they are: ignorant children throwing a tantrum.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
You'd think there wouldn't be, but here we are, going through the same exact motions every second time an AAA multiplat is released on PC
That would be helpful. Anyone?
The article that was linked talks about the existence of Ultra features that are too demanding for any current system. Basically, it's ok to have Ultra settings that are designed for hardware 1, 2, or even more years in the future. I think we can all agree to that.
However, that in no way changes or excuses poor implementation / optimization. If the reason no system can run your Ultra features is because of poor implementation, not because they are graphically demanding, then that's something the dev should probably fix.
Linking Durante's article in no way addresses the claim that the reason those Ultra settings don't run at 60 FPS isn't because of how demanding they are - it's because they may be poorly implemented.
I was kind of under the impression that you were painting all PC gamers as a childish bunch, a considerable portion of us are quite reasonable.
texhnolyze
Banned
Unfortunately, I t hink we're giving Nixxes too much credits. We've had this discussion earlier last month and people were totally against it. I guess the 'straight console port' part is indeed a total nonsense, as PC version supports at least 4k and 60fps. However, generally the interview was a fair warning for the quality of the port, and yet people automatically dismissed the idea of Nixxes giving us a bad port somehow. I know it's only benchmarks so far, but we should accept that things aren't looking too good so far.
Also, he has a point there. The fact that the devs outsourced PC version to a third party, no matter how good it is, instead of investing their time for a proper PC version shows that they care less about the platform. I know, budget and all, but still.
CrichtonKicks
Member
My gut feeling is that when this gets in most PC gamers' hands on Tuesday we'll find that the performance is just fine if you lower 2 or 3 especially taxing settings to the high setting and that there will be very little visual difference in the process.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
I only game on PC, and I'd still insinuate nearly that much at times like these
Huge Succeeded
Banned
but... based on what, though? Most (but not all) of the conclusions I've seen toward that end have been based on things that are actually quite typical where PC games are concerned.
I feel like you're ignoring a bevy of game development realities to come to a conclusion like that, I mean, that last sentence suggests as much.
for those which are interested in the deus ex franchise
Deus Ex Retrospective - Part 1 - Easy Allies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvbkwjk9ML8
Deus Ex Retrospective - Part 1 - Easy Allies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvbkwjk9ML8
Awesome! I love Game Trailers Retrospectives, I am pleased to see that Easy Allies have adopted the series.
StereoVsn
Member
Finally some sanity being posted. Everybody is so quickly to defend devs for questionable actions/performance for whatever reason. Nobody is saying "lazy devs" here, but clearly something is wrong based on available benchmarks, videos and screenshots.
StereoVsn
Member
Yes, such succinct post with 0 evidence and pretty much 100% bullshit. Examples and thoughts were posted by multiple people yet you are quick to rush to defense with the usual crap.
Durante did have a very good point, but it does NOT apply every time. There have been plenty of games with bad ports and based on previous work it looks like Glacier 2 is not a very good performer on Nvidia platform, DirectX11 or DirectX12 (which is pretty horrible even with 1080).
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