• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Analysis [DF] - Borderlands 3 PS5 vs Xbox Series X: 4K60 and 120fps Modes Tested - Plus Series S Comparisons!

Legenscary

Member
Mar 20, 2013
80
186
680
OK so here is as close to a match in scenes from the vid as that driving section was, yet ps5 is ahead on most or give or take.

Not quite the 'win' for xbox in that mode its made out to be is it.....



















That's very strange, when I watched the video I could have sworn they said that the Series X has a performance advantage at 120 FPS. It's almost like you went through and cherry picked screenshots that support your argument. You don't have to believe me, I'm not going to tirelessly comb through the video to find screenshots that support my fanboyish agenda. Here are some quotes right from the horses mouth with timetamps:

"Series X also has a performance advantage at 120fps to begin with, which helps the endeavor."

Series X has better performance and PS5 and doesn't suffer from Vsync related stuttering when there are FPS drops:
“Being fully Vsynced, you’ll see some stuttering kick in for battling, for road combat. This is where Xbox Series X has the crucial advantage. This is because on PS5 a Vsync’d framerate drop causes an 8.3ms hit on the frame time graph, but on Series X their is support for variable refresh rate or VRR. On a supporting TV it will do wonders for adjusting variable framtetimes in Borderlands 3. It makes that 90-100 fps range with all the variances in frame time smoother. It’s also something that Ps5 does not offer at a system level right now.”

 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Jun 1, 2013
8,987
3,988
850
“Being fully Vsynced, you’ll see some stuttering kick in for battling, for road combat. This is where Xbox Series X has the crucial advantage. This is because on PS5 a Vsync’d framerate drop causes an 8.3ms hit on the frame time graph, but on Series X their is support for variable refresh rate or VRR. On a supporting TV it will do wonders for adjusting variable framtetimes in Borderlands 3. It makes that 90-100 fps range with all the variances in frame time smoother. It’s also something that Ps5 does not offer at a system level right now.”

I'm pretty sure ppl have mentioned this part is because of VRR.....that the PS5 will get in the near future...

The crucial advantage Series X has is VRR.
 
  • Empathy
Reactions: MrFunSocks

Legenscary

Member
Mar 20, 2013
80
186
680
I'm pretty sure ppl have mentioned this part is because of VRR.....that the PS5 will get in the near future...

The crucial advantage Series X has is VRR.

No, that is not what Digital Foundry found in their comparative: "Series X also has a performance advantage at 120fps to begin with, which helps the endeavor" ... "There is one driving sequence which matches the two together pretty well, showing the Series X lead of between 5 to 15fps. It's variable but the load is matched here to show a lead. The bottom line, both consoles are prone to wild fluctuations some kicking in harder on the Series X at times, others on PS5. On the whole it does seem Series X has the lead. For anyone looking to get the best 120fps performance the vote has to go on the X. For the higher bassline performance and having VRR, it has that advantage. But that 60 fps mode is where most people will be playing, and it's pretty hard to split the two there."

The people above were cherry picking portions where the X has performance drops and where the PS5 does not, and then declaring that as a PS5 win. If you remember, digital foundry said the performance seems to fluctuate wildly between the two consoles during particular segments, but overall, according to the source of the screenshots they were using, the Series X has better 120fps performance overall and matches the PS5 at 60fps. If that's not a Series X win, then you live in a fanboy bizzaro world.

 

IDappa

Member
Nov 20, 2018
397
438
315
The steering wheel is not part of a standard set up, the controller is sold as standard, stop being disingenuous thanks.
Weird how last gen people didn't give a bonus point towards multiplayer for the Xbox rumble triggers..


I personally think we should take the consoles colour into consideration.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: MrFunSocks

IDappa

Member
Nov 20, 2018
397
438
315
.


yep, it amazes me, they are so damn desperate for a win, they are calling parity while ps5 holds the most popular mode and better foilage and shadows a win, you cant make this up lol.
Where was this talk with the last few comparisons where Xbox performed better in the most played mode?.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Hendrick's

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
9,284
21,498
775
Do we know what the consoles compare in regards to pc settings?

e.g. ps5 = high, XsX = medium ??
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Dec 25, 2019
10,133
18,736
975
Prague, Czech Republic
Shadows sucks too? Sorry I just skipped through it mainly, I have no interest in this game, So I might have overlooked something. Fully possible, however medium > high is big jump I think and mostly consoles are using specially tuned settings which really don't have equivalent on PC. As seen on WD: Legion DF comparison.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Shmunter
Aug 28, 2019
8,239
12,004
840
Where was this talk with the last few comparisons where Xbox performed better in the most played mode?.

Just the call of duty comparison, and that discrepancey is due to a glitch from an update which wasn't found by VG tech prior to the update. we know it's a glitch because it doesn't reliably happen you can reload the checkpoint and it doesn't show up not to mention it's not there prior to the patch. it is still similar to this comparison because there are missing effects nx gamer discovered things like missing muzzle flashes which could be due to the ray tracing stress the muzzle flashes create and so they just turned them off during intense scenes.
 

J_Gamer.exe

Member
May 4, 2020
760
3,688
410
No, that is not what Digital Foundry found in their comparative: "Series X also has a performance advantage at 120fps to begin with, which helps the endeavor" ... "There is one driving sequence which matches the two together pretty well, showing the Series X lead of between 5 to 15fps. It's variable but the load is matched here to show a lead. The bottom line, both consoles are prone to wild fluctuations some kicking in harder on the Series X at times, others on PS5. On the whole it does seem Series X has the lead. For anyone looking to get the best 120fps performance the vote has to go on the X. For the higher bassline performance and having VRR, it has that advantage. But that 60 fps mode is where most people will be playing, and it's pretty hard to split the two there."

The people above were cherry picking portions where the X has performance drops and where the PS5 does not, and then declaring that as a PS5 win. If you remember, digital foundry said the performance seems to fluctuate wildly between the two consoles during particular segments, but overall, according to the source of the screenshots they were using, the Series X has better 120fps performance overall and matches the PS5 at 60fps. If that's not a Series X win, then you live in a fanboy bizzaro world.


Thanks for quoting the video we all watched and i got the very receipts from. 🙄 forget vrr as virtually nobody has it,great feature and advantage but lets focus on the actual performance 99% of people get.

Tom from DF says series x has the advantage, shows only that 1 scene in the video, unless there's others he decided not to show for wait for it.... no reason whatsoever.... the rest are what I showed from his very own video, showing ps5 advantages. If there's more consistent advantages on xbox you'd show them so its right there would you not? Nope instead I'll show ps5 generally in the lead.....

Maybe Series X comes out on top but with no averages or vgtech charts there's no actual more evidence of consistent drops provided.

To then accuse people of cherry picking when the entire performance part he showed us was that driving scene, then the ones i posted is ridiculous.

How hard is it for df to do a chart like vgtech?

DF analyse the games, were analysing the footage they provided us with, it shows 1 closely 'matched' scene driving, ahead for xbox which isn't identical but close, same as other scenes though where ps5 is consistently ahead like inside, yet his conclusion is series x has higher base. In the similarly matched scenes ps5 also has an advantage from 1 2 3 4 or 5 to 15 or so frames, yet no mention of that specifically. Just it can go up or down on both.

Is his conclusion based off that one area he saw higher on series x or what because he saw it 'matched' and believed this is a fair place to say well its ahead here so therefore winner....

Wouldn't be the first time DF made a shaky conclusion, take Richards rdna1 test after cerny interview where he overclocked a card with less cu to see of it beat one with more cu at lower clock, no it didn't so that's that then, nice try amd, Sony etc....terrible terrible test and seems that conclusion caused them some confusion.

If a console is ahead in a mode you'd expect to see it in like for like scenes if not all at least the majority, yes the even more like for like scenes I posted from his vid are ahead on ps5, so I think waiting for an average fps from long run through is a bit more sensible thanks.
 

Legenscary

Member
Mar 20, 2013
80
186
680
Thanks for quoting the video we all watched and i got the very receipts from. 🙄 forget vrr as virtually nobody has it,great feature and advantage but lets focus on the actual performance 99% of people get.

Tom from DF says series x has the advantage, shows only that 1 scene in the video, unless there's others he decided not to show for wait for it.... no reason whatsoever.... the rest are what I showed from his very own video, showing ps5 advantages. If there's more consistent advantages on xbox you'd show them so its right there would you not? Nope instead I'll show ps5 generally in the lead.....

Maybe Series X comes out on top but with no averages or vgtech charts there's no actual more evidence of consistent drops provided.

To then accuse people of cherry picking when the entire performance part he showed us was that driving scene, then the ones i posted is ridiculous.

How hard is it for df to do a chart like vgtech?

DF analyse the games, were analysing the footage they provided us with, it shows 1 closely 'matched' scene driving, ahead for xbox which isn't identical but close, same as other scenes though where ps5 is consistently ahead like inside, yet his conclusion is series x has higher base. In the similarly matched scenes ps5 also has an advantage from 1 2 3 4 or 5 to 15 or so frames, yet no mention of that specifically. Just it can go up or down on both.

Is his conclusion based off that one area he saw higher on series x or what because he saw it 'matched' and believed this is a fair place to say well its ahead here so therefore winner....

Wouldn't be the first time DF made a shaky conclusion, take Richards rdna1 test after cerny interview where he overclocked a card with less cu to see of it beat one with more cu at lower clock, no it didn't so that's that then, nice try amd, Sony etc....terrible terrible test and seems that conclusion caused them some confusion.

If a console is ahead in a mode you'd expect to see it in like for like scenes if not all at least the majority, yes the even more like for like scenes I posted from his vid are ahead on ps5, so I think waiting for an average fps from long run through is a bit more sensible thanks.

Do you realize how peculiar it is for you to use, as a source, images from a professional reviewer when you're calling into question the veracity of his conclusions? Either the data is correct, and therefore useful, or it is incorrect and you shouldn't use it. Again the reviewer himself says that the FPS fluctuates wildly, but that the Series X has an advantage in the 120FPS mode.


The only reason for you to cherry pick pictures as you did when we know there can be frame variance scene to scene, and for you to misconstrue the reviewers conclusion, is you're trying to muddy the waters on a clear Xbox win.
 

J_Gamer.exe

Member
May 4, 2020
760
3,688
410
Do you realize how peculiar it is for you to use, as a source, images from a professional reviewer when you're calling into question the veracity of his conclusions? Either the data is correct, and therefore useful, or it is incorrect and you shouldn't use it. Again the reviewer himself says that the FPS fluctuates wildly, but that the Series X has an advantage in the 120FPS mode.


The only reason for you to cherry pick pictures as you did when we know there can be frame variance scene to scene, and for you to misconstrue the reviewers conclusion, is you're trying to muddy the waters on a clear Xbox win.

You seem desperate to call this an xbox win lol, I know times have been tough for the 'worlds most powerful but can't perform ahead of PS5... console' but come one, not having this. I only showed what he showed us but didn't mention the leads like he did for the xbox.

Also how is it a series x win?

Faster loading = PS5
Better looking game with higher grass density etc, better shadows in the 'equal' 60fps mode = PS5 win

Do the visual advantages carry to the 120fps mode too?

Did you miss the part of the video where pa5 looks better, its not the first time weve seen this, higher details etc.

120fps has drops on both, it may be a slight advantage on the sx but the video doesn't show us that. Also why no averages like others show or no vgtech figures in black and white.

Even if it is, it's not a 'win', 60 fps is better on ps5, you do realise performance being the same but better graphics is.... well..... better.

Faster loading is better, plus dualsense support but forget that as doesn't seem to count.

If series x has shown consistent leads then fair enough, but thats not whats shown. We see 1 scene consistently better on sx and indoor sections consistently better on ps5.

If you were being fair you might say game has advantages on both if indeed the 120 is higher, therefore its basically a tie, however he showed enough ps5 leads in 120 to make you question if he draws his conclusion largely from that driving area.

Again with the cherry picking attack, I can't cherry pick if thats the majority of whats shown outside that one scene, I have said xbox is ahead in that driving scene but the rest he showed largely favour ps5 in like for like scenes he showed us.

Let's see a vgtech sheet, if there's some noticeable advantage over lots of different gameplay scenes fair enough, poor use of footage to show your points df, if not then hmmm.
 

cyber69

Member
Sep 21, 2018
2,008
3,507
395
One thing I wanna add which some people are adding on here is the losing time is better on PS5 due to the quick SSD which is true, people are then adding that the loading time is still to long as the SSD still isn’t being used to its full potential yet and again I fully agree on this, I will also add to the Xbox being more powerful TF wise and maybe that isn’t being used to its full potential yet.
Both sides have a lot to look forward to still

Regardless. It should still be pushing out more FPS and higher resolution via brute force alone. However, it hasn't in many cases. This could be done to many things such as immature tooling or the system just isn't efficient enough to actually hit/get close to its theoretical 12 TF.
 
Last edited:

cyber69

Member
Sep 21, 2018
2,008
3,507
395
damn man at the last possible moment i decided to cancel my series x preorder because i was not sold on it.
having that 3080 and all and it not really having games i can't play.

seems like my original idea getting the series x for the best multiplat console experience is not really even worth it.
esp after experiencing dual sense

Agreed. Having a 3080 nullifies the need for a XSX.
 

J_Gamer.exe

Member
May 4, 2020
760
3,688
410

You keep aimlessly posting this and weve covered it, clinging to one scene we've all admitted runs better on sx, how about answer about the ps5 running at higher settings. Still an xbox win?

Better shadows and higher foliage density means a more taxing and demanding game, better looking. Better in 60fps mode.

Talk about cherry picking, you have cherry picked a win by trying to ignore the better 60fps mode on ps5 and faster loading and better 120fps in some areas.

Anyway getting nowhere so may as well not bother.
 

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
9,284
21,498
775
You keep aimlessly posting this and weve covered it, clinging to one scene we've all admitted runs better on sx, how about answer about the ps5 running at higher settings. Still an xbox win?

Better shadows and higher foliage density means a more taxing and demanding game, better looking. Better in 60fps mode.

Talk about cherry picking, you have cherry picked a win by trying to ignore the better 60fps mode on ps5 and faster loading and better 120fps in some areas.

Anyway getting nowhere so may as well not bother.
I recall some info a while ago saying shadow quality is one o the biggest performance penalties. If suffering performance issues on PC, look to shadows as one of the 1st things to scale back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: J_Gamer.exe

Legenscary

Member
Mar 20, 2013
80
186
680
You keep aimlessly posting this and weve covered it, clinging to one scene we've all admitted runs better on sx, how about answer about the ps5 running at higher settings. Still an xbox win?

Better shadows and higher foliage density means a more taxing and demanding game, better looking. Better in 60fps mode.

Talk about cherry picking, you have cherry picked a win by trying to ignore the better 60fps mode on ps5 and faster loading and better 120fps in some areas.

Anyway getting nowhere so may as well not bother.

He literally says, on the whole. Meaning overall. Meaning beyond that single scene.:

"On the whole it does seem Series X has the lead. For anyone looking to get the best 120fps performance the vote has to go on the X."

 
May 8, 2020
3,833
9,299
640
Flawless victory. DF at it again and don't forget with better shadows and much better foliage...

They don't care as long as the boss (Richard Leadbetter) is happy. Everybody's got bills to pay after all.

More power to VGTech and NXGamer to exploit the obvious.

OK so here is as close to a match in scenes from the vid as that driving section was, yet ps5 is ahead on most or give or take.

Not quite the 'win' for xbox in that mode its made out to be is it.....



















Exactly. Pushing the VRR narrative and then to dispel any notion of doubt due to the weakness of the argument... cherry picked a scene without providing the averages in print. We saw the same crap in Call of Duty Cold War......with NXGamer analysis pretty much refuting some of the claims by default and highlighting selective omissions..... and we definitely saw how DF tried to manipulate the narrative on the 120 fps mode in DMC5:SE. It's a running joke for those that pay attention. They can cry fanboys all they want by employing the victim card...to enlist their own fanboys defense....but the reality is the content just doesn't pass muster.
 
Last edited:

Hendrick's

Member
Jan 7, 2014
9,058
15,509
995
They don't care as long as the boss (Richard Leadbetter) is happy. Everybody's got bills to pay after all.

More power to VGTech and NXGamer to exploit the obvious.



Exactly. Pushing the VRR narrative and then to dispel any notion of doubt due to the weakness of the argument... cherry picked a scene without providing the averages in print. We saw the same crap in Call of Duty Cold War......with NXGamer analysis pretty much refuting some of the claims by default and highlighting selective omissions..... and we definitely saw how DF tried to manipulate the narrative on the 120 fps mode in DMC5:SE. It's a running joke for those that pay attention. They can cry fanboys all they want by employing the victim card...to enlist their own fanboys defense....but the reality is the content just doesn't pass muster.
You must be thelastword thelastword `s alt account. I can't believe there are two people who would butcher the use of ellipses like this.
 

IDappa

Member
Nov 20, 2018
397
438
315
Just the call of duty comparison, and that discrepancey is due to a glitch from an update which wasn't found by VG tech prior to the update. we know it's a glitch because it doesn't reliably happen you can reload the checkpoint and it doesn't show up not to mention it's not there prior to the patch. it is still similar to this comparison because there are missing effects nx gamer discovered things like missing muzzle flashes which could be due to the ray tracing stress the muzzle flashes create and so they just turned them off during intense scenes.
Devil May cry edged out on 60fps mode from memory. A bug that affects performance in a performance comparison is a factor in my opinion.
 
Last edited:
Aug 28, 2019
8,239
12,004
840
Devil May cry edged out on 60fps mode from memory.

That was patched on PS5 but it was also among the first showdowns, it was made to sound like the last few were XSX victories, DMC V was def the first and again the problem was it forced 120 on every mode, a patch has fixed this, though there has been no post-patch analysis I've seen I'm assuming it's fine now.
 

IDappa

Member
Nov 20, 2018
397
438
315
That was patched on PS5 but it was also among the first showdowns, it was made to sound like the last few were XSX victories, DMC V was def the first and again the problem was it forced 120 on every mode, a patch has fixed this, though there has been no post-patch analysis I've seen I'm assuming it's fine now.
Edited my last comment to late, apologies. I would think bringing up a bug that hits performance to be fair in a performance comparison. I doubt they will bother with a follow up but who am I, would be interesting to see none the less.
 
Aug 28, 2019
8,239
12,004
840
Edited my last comment to late, apologies. I would think bringing up a bug that hits performance to be fair in a performance comparison. I doubt they will bother with a follow up but who am I, would be interesting to see none the less.

If it's a bug they should do follow ups but what can you do. It's like critic's reviewing live service games on day 1 that get massively changed by patches every week. What was a critic's review of Destiny 2 worth?
 
  • Like
Reactions: IDappa

phil_t98

Member
Oct 10, 2014
4,567
4,696
620
Regardless. It should still be pushing out more FPS and higher resolution via brute force alone. However, it hasn't in many cases. This could be done to many things such as immature tooling or the system just isn't efficient enough to actually hit/get close to its theoretical 12 TF.

how can a system not be efficient enough to push its own power? the programming may not be efficient that maybe true but to say the xbox can't hit 12tf is just silly
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riky
Sep 18, 2019
1,239
3,195
345
Devil May cry edged out on 60fps mode from memory. A bug that affects performance in a performance comparison is a factor in my opinion.
It's a bug only because DF said it was a bug. But for COD cutscene that dropped at 40fps on PS5, oddly it wasn't a bug for them and they were happy to say it was a performance problem. well until others proved them it was actually a random bug so they had to update their article. Do you understand?

On the other hand they never proved those 'bugs' on XSX (big performance drosp) were actually bug.
 
  • Empathy
Reactions: Riky and MrFunSocks

Lysandros

Member
Jul 28, 2020
872
3,209
350
You are right contrary to AC, Dirt and COD comparisons they didn't hesitate to declare a winner this time based on specific scenes in 120 FPS mode. I would expect this very interesting situation to continue in the future especially with Tom.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Legenscary
Sep 18, 2019
1,239
3,195
345
You are right contrary to AC, Dirt and COD comparisons they didn't hesitate a declare a winner this time based on specific scenes in 120 FPS mode. I would expect this very interesting situation to continue in the future especially with Tom.
To be fair at 120hz XSX should be declared winner thanks to VRR, even if both versions perform similarly overall.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riky and kuncol02

ZywyPL

Member
Nov 27, 2018
5,049
8,586
685
how can a system not be efficient enough to push its own power? the programming may not be efficient that maybe true but to say the xbox can't hit 12tf is just silly

Some dev said on twitter that XSX GPU is supposedly currently running games in GCN legacy mode, not utilizing any architecture gains from RDNA2, so all it really takes for the PS5 is to run the games on the GPU's native mode, which is an equivalent of like 15 GCN TFlops, so it's possible that despite having more on-paper computing power, it's actually the PS5 that has more performance at its disposal.

Take it with a grain of salt of course, because A) I wouldn't trust anything that comes from Twitter, and B) nobody knows if the games on PS5 are running in native or PS4 Pro legacy mode.
 

geordiemp

Member
Sep 5, 2013
11,920
25,005
1,010
UK
Some dev said on twitter that XSX GPU is supposedly currently running games in GCN legacy mode, not utilizing any architecture gains from RDNA2, so all it really takes for the PS5 is to run the games on the GPU's native mode, which is an equivalent of like 15 GCN TFlops, so it's possible that despite having more on-paper computing power, it's actually the PS5 that has more performance at its disposal.

Take it with a grain of salt of course, because A) I wouldn't trust anything that comes from Twitter, and B) nobody knows if the games on PS5 are running in native or PS4 Pro legacy mode.

Game was released a year ago 13 September 2019 well before ps5 and XSX.

So its an old title likely BC on Both, even kept the different settings, so it is not optimal for either console.

Thi is a last gen game with a minor patch. Most people interested in BL3 have bought it, played it, finished it and moved on
 
Sep 22, 2020
537
840
345
Do we know what the consoles compare in regards to pc settings?

e.g. ps5 = high, XsX = medium ??
Some of the settings look custom as I couldn't replicate on PC. Only compared to the PS5 shots. Didn't bother comparing texture detail etc as impossible from the compressed video but I might compare some screens on PC to XSX later if I get time as I have the game on both.

Shadows look lower than medium in terms of distance but maybe high/ultra in terms of resolution (on PC there is just one setting in the options which impacts resolution and distance) - seems a good trade off.

Draw distance looks to be low to medium with lots of missing detail at distance but I doubt you would notice without a side by side as it is all really minor stuff like aerials on cars, small rocks, patches of grass etc.

Foliage looks similar to Ultra density up close but PS5 has the cell shading around it up close which PC doesn't seem to (unless I disabled a setting somewhere). Foliage has a much lower view distance than PC on ultra or high foliage. It looks like the foliage when you have draw distance on low on PC.

I would imagine they could boost some of these settings with a negligible performance impact on the new consoles but I doubt they will bother.