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DF Direct: The PS5

pawel86ck

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You get it. I was waiting for someone else to actually understand what is being done here. It is quite elegant and incredibly unique. People saying it won’t be hitting peak are wrong. If sustained peak levels are needed by the game / developers it will be available and not bouncing all over the place like some presume. This is a new type of boost. Not the same thing that is used on phones and certainly not the same boost as the pro.
Perhaps they should have called it something else to avoid the comparisons and confusion.
To my understanding GPU will downclock only when max performance will be not needed.
 
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hyperbertha

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But couldn't MS use Series X SSD to do exactly that type of high quality asset streaming that Sony intends to do with PS5???

I'm lost in all of this...
copy pasting from an earlier post : MS's SSD isn't designed to have instantaneous seek time that ps5 gets thanks to its dedicated DMAC (that has the power of 1 or 2 Zen2 cores) and the I/O coprocessors. Then the ps5 has more than twice Xbox's bandwidth, add to that the compression system (KRAKEN) that gives 9 GB/s throughput post compression and it creates an immense difference. Xbox's SSD is just not designed to work like the ps5's ssd to create a revolutionary shift in game data access.
 

LordKasual

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But couldn't MS use Series X SSD to do exactly that type of high quality asset streaming that Sony intends to do with PS5???

I'm lost in all of this...
Don't think too hard. It will be able to do what the PS5 can, essentially.

Unless asset streaming is VERY heavily strained, in which case PS5's advantages will become increasingly obvious, but this is almost certain to not to be seen in any multi-platform titles and thus probably isn't something an XSX owner should obsess about.

The system is still blindingly fast and outpunches the PS5 in processing power. You're still going to see Fast Travel and loading times cut into a miniscule fraction of what they were last gen. PS5 is just going to still be twice as fast...but 100% faster than 4 seconds is literally not worth writing home about.


Again, the biggest differences are going to be seen in titles that explicitly aim to exploit PS5's streaming.
 

PocoJoe

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copy pasting from an earlier post : MS's SSD isn't designed to have instantaneous seek time that ps5 gets thanks to its dedicated DMAC (that has the power of 1 or 2 Zen2 cores) and the I/O coprocessors. Then the ps5 has more than twice Xbox's bandwidth, add to that the compression system (KRAKEN) that gives 9 GB/s throughput post compression and it creates an immense difference. Xbox's SSD is just not designed to work like the ps5's ssd to create a revolutionary shift in game data access.
Good explanation, this should be told to all "but it is only 2x faster, so?"-people.

And didnt the presentation also say that (at least in theory) kraken compression can be equal to max. 22 GB/s in the best case with data that compress with specific parameters. So that is huge output jump with this special tech
 
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Good explanation, this should be told to all "but it is only 2x faster, so?"-people.

And didnt the presentation also say that (at least in theory) kraken compression can be equal to max. 22 GB/s in the best case with data that compress with specific parameters. So that is huge output jump with this special tech
honestly it’s not a question of telling anyone anything anymore

people are going to need to be SHOWN how this tremendous data bandwidth translates DIRECTLY into better graphics and/or gameplay
 
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Sosokrates

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not so simple, maybe:
Current gen: 56k
Xsx: 50-400mbit/s @ 100ms ping
PS5: 800mbit/s @ 1ms ping

would be closer. It is just not all about pure transfer speed
Haha, why did gimp the XsXs ssd so much lol, the xsxs ssd is no way that gimped compared to the PS5s. XSX ssd is about 1/2 the performance of the PS5s
 

GymWolf

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Indeed, we are dry here for next gen games. And honestly, without photorealism, I can't see what's next gen is with current games. Current games are still taxing hardware with bland looks, Quixel managed to show photorealism in a freakin 1080ti, 4K:


Full physics as well!


How it's made, it's much easier to develop, much better graphics as well:


Watch them on a 4K screen, but your eyes might melt! Both consoles are gonna be great.
that second physic trailer gave me a boner :messenger_fire:
 
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GymWolf

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Well won’t 95% of games be limited then on ps5 as more games multi platform than exclusives so basicly in what your saying 95% of games on PS5 will be compromises because other platforms ssd not as good
only first party games are gonna squeeze that ssd on ps5, everyone is saying this, devs, insider, journalist etc.
third party devs are not gonna develop 2 different games, one around ps5 ssd and one for the other console\pc, is absurd to think otherwise, they are ALWAYS gonna cheapen up unlike sony first party.

lucky for me i only use the ps5 for exclusives.
 

Sosokrates

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copy pasting from an earlier post : MS's SSD isn't designed to have instantaneous seek time that ps5 gets thanks to its dedicated DMAC (that has the power of 1 or 2 Zen2 cores) and the I/O coprocessors. Then the ps5 has more than twice Xbox's bandwidth, add to that the compression system (KRAKEN) that gives 9 GB/s throughput post compression and it creates an immense difference. Xbox's SSD is just not designed to work like the ps5's ssd to create a revolutionary shift in game data access.
If you watch the xsx digital foundry deep dive you would know the xsxs ssd system is actually designed quite similarly to the PS5

The "Xbox velocity architecture" dedicated hardware blocks located in the SoC offload decompression work from the CPU and can deliver up to 6gb/s of compressed data.
Also Microsoft built in hardware into the xsx to closely monitor how texture data is used by game titles, instead of using only a portion of the texture data like this gen this hardware and software actually enable full use of the texture data.
Also all ssds have "instantaneous seek" because unlike hdds there are no moving parts, the xsx ssd can access any data somone desires, otherwise things like quick resume would be impossible

Is the PS5 version better, yes its faster, but there approaches are very similar.
 
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Sosokrates

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Glad he upfront admits that the XSX is the more powerful.
He says the ps5 is made for developers by developers, is he implying Microsoft are not?
And what is he talking about regarding the ram lol, the XsX is better, this guy is just flat out wrong about the PS5s ram lol he does not know what he is talking about, and he is just pulling stuff out his ass about the ps5 not needing RAM for the OS.

Always thought this was biased towards sony, he just watched the cerny talk and now hes coming up with all these theories because he is butthurt that the PS5 is weaker.

He talks about only the xsx having bottlenecks and just happens to forget potential PS5 bottlenecks, well there are some... Such as

  • Devs have to choose between running the cpu or gpu @ max clocks
  • Raytracing performance may struggle because of only 36cus
  • Later on games could struggle because of just weaker gpu, cpu and ram performance
 
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cyber69

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Glad he upfront admits that the XSX is the more powerful.
He says the ps5 is made for developers by developers, is he implying Microsoft are not?
And what is talking about regarding the ram lol, the XsX is better, this guy is just flat out wrong about the PS5s ram lol he does not know what he is talking about, and he is just pulling stuff out his ass about the ps5 not needing RAM for the OS.

Always thought this was biased towards sony, he just watched the cerny talk and now hes coming up with all these theories because he is butthurt that the PS5 is weaker.

He talks about only about having bottlenecks and just happens to forget potential PS5 bottleneck, well there are some... Such as

  • Devs have to choose between running the cpu or gpu @ max clocks
  • Raytracing performance may struggle because of only 36cus
  • Later on games could struggle because of just weaker gpu, cpu and ram performance
Ram is questionable. MS is using a split between fast/slow ram. Sony has theirs at a constant throughput while only being slighty slower than the 10GB pool of the XSX. If you want to add additional variables, in order for devs to use SMT on the XSX, the console clocks down from 3.8 to 3.6.
 
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Breakage

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Only caught up with this recently. I still have to watch the full video. But I'm surprised that Sony still hasn't revealed what the console or controller will look like. Perhaps it's a sign that they are having design issues in regard to cooling among other things?
MS just seems to have a more confident next-gen vision in the Series X.
 

Sosokrates

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Ram is questionable. MS is using a split between fast/slow ram. Sony has theirs at a constant throughput while only being slighty slower than the 10GB pool of the XSX. If you want to add additional variables, in order for devs to use SMT on the XSX, the console clocks down from 3.8 to 3.6.
No if you ask any dev they would rather use the xsxs ram because there will be at least 3.5gb of tasks that dont need very fast ram, and 336gb/s is no slouch.
 

Sosokrates

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Agreed. Similar to the diff in TFlops. The biggest upgrade these consoles received is finally ridding themselves of ancient spindle hard drives.
Not really, the GPU is still responsible for all the lighting, effects and geometry. Also the CPU is a very big leap should enable more npcs that are more complex and better animations. What will ssds really provide? higher res textures?
It would of been disappointing if we got somthing as powerful as stadia but with ps5 ssd tech.
 
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Sosokrates

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You are making a lot of assumptions right here. Which devs?

I feel like you’re trying to downplay the PS5 way to hard without knowing anything.
Most games have this kind of split, the cpu stuff does not need as much bandwidth.

 

Andodalf

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copy pasting from an earlier post : MS's SSD isn't designed to have instantaneous seek time
[I'm just gunna quote from the DF article how most everything you said is wrong, and bracket in my anecdotes.]

[NVME SSDs all have virtually no seek times. I think it is actually none on some newer ones. Seek times like described in the PS5 deep dive, are the read head literally moving on A HDD, which an SSD obvi doesn't have]

that ps5 gets thanks to its dedicated DMAC (that has the power of 1 or 2 Zen2 cores) and the I/O coprocessors.
The final component in the triumvirate is an extension to DirectX - DirectStorage - a necessary upgrade bearing in mind that existing file I/O protocols are knocking on for 30 years old, and in their current form would require two Zen CPU cores simply to cover the overhead, which DirectStorage reduces to just one tenth of single core.

"Plus it has other benefits," enthuses Andrew Goossen. "It's less latent and it saves a ton of CPU. With the best competitive solution, we found doing decompression software to match the SSD rate would have consumed three Zen 2 CPU cores. When you add in the IO CPU overhead, that's another two cores. So the resulting workload would have completely consumed five Zen 2 CPU cores when now it only takes a tenth of a CPU core. "

Then the ps5 has more than twice Xbox's bandwidth,
[This is True!]

add to that the compression system (KRAKEN) that gives 9 GB/s throughput post compression and it creates an immense difference.

It's a system that Microsoft calls the Velocity Architecture and the SSD itself is just one part of the system.

"Our second component is a high-speed hardware decompression block that can deliver over 6GB/s," reveals Andrew Goossen. "This is a dedicated silicon block that offloads decompression work from the CPU and is matched to the SSD so that decompression is never a bottleneck. The decompression hardware supports Zlib for general data and a new compression [system] called BCPack that is tailored to the GPU textures that typically comprise the vast majority of a game's package size."


Xbox's SSD is just not designed to work like the ps5's ssd to create a revolutionary shift in game data access.

The form factor is cute, the 2.4GB/s of guaranteed throughput is impressive, but it's the software APIs and custom hardware built into the SoC that deliver what Microsoft believes to be a revolution - a new way of using storage to augment memory (an area where no platform holder will be able to deliver a more traditional generational leap). The idea, in basic terms at least, is pretty straightforward - the game package that sits on storage essentially becomes extended memory, allowing 100GB of game assets stored on the SSD to be instantly accessible by the developer.


A technique called Sampler Feedback Streaming - SFS - was built to more closely marry the memory demands of the GPU, intelligently loading in the texture mip data that's actually required with the guarantee of a lower quality mip available if the higher quality version isn't readily available, stopping GPU stalls and frame-time spikes. Bespoke hardware within the GPU is available to smooth the transition between mips, on the off-chance that the higher quality texture arrives a frame or two later. Microsoft considers these aspects of the Velocity Architecture to be a genuine game-changer, adding a multiplier to how physical memory is utilised.

The Velocity Architecture also facilitates another feature that sounds impressive on paper but is even more remarkable when you actually see it play out on the actual console. Quick Resume effectively allows users to cycle between saved game states, with just a few seconds' loading - you can see it in action in the video above. When you leave a game, system RAM is cached off to SSD and when you access another title, its cache is then restored. From the perspective of the game itself, it has no real idea what is happening in the background - it simply thinks that the user has pressed the guide button and the game can resume as per normal.

[XSX is clearly using the SSD to change how it does many things. It honestly sounds a lot like what Sony is doing, just slower. And then you have the multi game suspend/resume, which Sony have made no mention of. All in all, the primary differentiation here is speed alone]
 

Shmunter

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Glad he upfront admits that the XSX is the more powerful.
He says the ps5 is made for developers by developers, is he implying Microsoft are not?
And what is he talking about regarding the ram lol, the XsX is better, this guy is just flat out wrong about the PS5s ram lol he does not know what he is talking about, and he is just pulling stuff out his ass about the ps5 not needing RAM for the OS.

Always thought this was biased towards sony, he just watched the cerny talk and now hes coming up with all these theories because he is butthurt that the PS5 is weaker.

He talks about only the xsx having bottlenecks and just happens to forget potential PS5 bottlenecks, well there are some... Such as

  • Devs have to choose between running the cpu or gpu @ max clocks
  • Raytracing performance may struggle because of only 36cus
  • Later on games could struggle because of just weaker gpu, cpu and ram performance
Nxgamer is a member here, why not challenge him on his assertions instead of stamping your feet because someone comes to different conclusions than you? What positivity are you contributing to this forum with this childish behaviour?

You’re not even familiar with nxgamer content which is non bias and pure tech talk. Talk about pot calling kettle black.
 
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[I'm just gunna quote from the DF article how most everything you said is wrong, and bracket in my anecdotes.]

[NVME SSDs all have virtually no seek times. I think it is actually none on some newer ones. Seek times like described in the PS5 deep dive, are the read head literally moving on A HDD, which an SSD obvi doesn't have]



The final component in the triumvirate is an extension to DirectX - DirectStorage - a necessary upgrade bearing in mind that existing file I/O protocols are knocking on for 30 years old, and in their current form would require two Zen CPU cores simply to cover the overhead, which DirectStorage reduces to just one tenth of single core.

"Plus it has other benefits," enthuses Andrew Goossen. "It's less latent and it saves a ton of CPU. With the best competitive solution, we found doing decompression software to match the SSD rate would have consumed three Zen 2 CPU cores. When you add in the IO CPU overhead, that's another two cores. So the resulting workload would have completely consumed five Zen 2 CPU cores when now it only takes a tenth of a CPU core. "



[This is True!]




It's a system that Microsoft calls the Velocity Architecture and the SSD itself is just one part of the system.

"Our second component is a high-speed hardware decompression block that can deliver over 6GB/s," reveals Andrew Goossen. "This is a dedicated silicon block that offloads decompression work from the CPU and is matched to the SSD so that decompression is never a bottleneck. The decompression hardware supports Zlib for general data and a new compression [system] called BCPack that is tailored to the GPU textures that typically comprise the vast majority of a game's package size."





The form factor is cute, the 2.4GB/s of guaranteed throughput is impressive, but it's the software APIs and custom hardware built into the SoC that deliver what Microsoft believes to be a revolution - a new way of using storage to augment memory (an area where no platform holder will be able to deliver a more traditional generational leap). The idea, in basic terms at least, is pretty straightforward - the game package that sits on storage essentially becomes extended memory, allowing 100GB of game assets stored on the SSD to be instantly accessible by the developer.


A technique called Sampler Feedback Streaming - SFS - was built to more closely marry the memory demands of the GPU, intelligently loading in the texture mip data that's actually required with the guarantee of a lower quality mip available if the higher quality version isn't readily available, stopping GPU stalls and frame-time spikes. Bespoke hardware within the GPU is available to smooth the transition between mips, on the off-chance that the higher quality texture arrives a frame or two later. Microsoft considers these aspects of the Velocity Architecture to be a genuine game-changer, adding a multiplier to how physical memory is utilised.

The Velocity Architecture also facilitates another feature that sounds impressive on paper but is even more remarkable when you actually see it play out on the actual console. Quick Resume effectively allows users to cycle between saved game states, with just a few seconds' loading - you can see it in action in the video above. When you leave a game, system RAM is cached off to SSD and when you access another title, its cache is then restored. From the perspective of the game itself, it has no real idea what is happening in the background - it simply thinks that the user has pressed the guide button and the game can resume as per normal.

[XSX is clearly using the SSD to change how it does many things. It honestly sounds a lot like what Sony is doing, just slower. And then you have the multi game suspend/resume, which Sony have made no mention of. All in all, the primary differentiation here is speed alone]
yeah I feel like a lot of people aren’t giving XsX enough credit. It’s SSD is plenty fast, it’s fast as hell. Their “slow ram” isn’t really slow either
 

McRazzle

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copy pasting from an earlier post : MS's SSD isn't designed to have instantaneous seek time that ps5 gets thanks to its dedicated DMAC (that has the power of 1 or 2 Zen2 cores) and the I/O coprocessors. Then the ps5 has more than twice Xbox's bandwidth, add to that the compression system (KRAKEN) that gives 9 GB/s throughput post compression and it creates an immense difference. Xbox's SSD is just not designed to work like the ps5's ssd to create a revolutionary shift in game data access. Then the ps5 has more than twice Xbox's bandwidth, add to that the compression system (KRAKEN) that gives 9 GB/s throughput post compression and it creates an immense difference. Xbox's SSD is just not designed to work like the ps5's ssd to create a revolutionary shift in game data access.
WTF?

XSX has twice the bamdwidth of the PS5;
896 GB/s vs 448 GB/s.
And PS5 has to share that with the CPU.
That means it doesn't have the bandwidth to use ray tracing for anything other than reflections.
Shit, it means it has less bandwidth at its disposal than the 5700 XT.
XSX's ram is also likely faster, which means less latency.

Kracken is not proprietary, XSX could use it too.
XSX has the Velocity Engine and Direct Storage, which is proprietary.
Not to mention the SSD in XSX is soldered onto the board, so less latency there as well, so it's not going to have any problems with seek times.
And as far as PS5's 5 GB/s speed SSD is concerned, taking into account how hot NVME drives get, at 5 GB/s it would undoubtedly cause the CPU/GPU to throttle., cancelling out any advantage the speed would provide.
XSX's SSD will be just as capable as the PS5's, if not superior, in real world use.
 
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Digity

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Maybe fanboys, 98% of the millions of people making the purchase don't even know or understand what a terraflop is, actually neither do most of the fanboys on this site.
Reminds me of times during the bit era. Kids will be going to their parents during the holidays,
"I want a ps5 for Christmas"
"Don't you have a ps4 already?"
"Ya but this one has more teraflops"
"What's a teraflop?"
"Uhhhh I dunno"

People throwing around bits and teraflops having no idea what they actually are, they just see a higher number and get a hard on.
 
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SonGoku

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I mean, why take risk? Getting a gpu clock boost for testing the cooling limits? PS4 PRO don't have any reputation in that departament, both loud as fuck and sometimes heat.
Think a little. Is that really necessary? Why not just admit that 9TF bs and live with that?

Was in fact a bold move for Sony. They will need a fucking cooling system for that 2GHz and if you add the SSD cost with will be probably more expensive that seX SSD solution and here we go. PS5 could get a high price or similar level as seX.

Sry, but I not seeing much positive in that departament. Maybe the SSD could be a 'game changer' for them, but risking heat problems is a big no for me. They're asking me for wait the revision version of PS5 aka PS5 slim.
Cerny was very confident in the cooling solution and said people would be excited about. He also recognized their short comings in the cooling/noise department in the past
This Variable frequency/constants power design philosophy is pretty revolutionary as it not only enables higher clocks but also easier to develop a cooling solution for the worst case.
Supposedly worst case game will only need minor downclock "a couple percent frequency reduction"


Pricing is key, PS5 needs to target $399
 
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Sosokrates

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Nxgamer is a member here, why not challenge him on his assertions instead of stamping your feet because someone comes to different conclusions than you? What positivity are you contributing to this forum with this childish behaviour?

You’re not even familiar with nxgamer content which is non bias and pure tech talk. Talk about pot calling kettle black.
Well his name has been summoned in this thread so I thought he would see.
Im not stamping my feet lol, everything i said is true.
It seems what you said applies to you, look at how angry your getting just because you dont agree with what i say

You also are pulling things out your ass, how do you know if im familiar with nxgamer? lol.
Ive been watching nxgamer on and off for years, but he tends to make things rather personal and he thinks he knows more then he does sometimes, he also trys and comes across as some unbiased technical analyst but his bias towards playstation makes this impossible, however I commend him on making the effort to make the videos, they are well made, I just wish he would be more inpartial and take his ego out of it. I think his videos would be better if he just Purely described things for what they were in a inpartial way, and he stretches his understanding to far sometimes I would respect him more if he did not do these things. Not that I know more then him but I can tell when someone is trying to explain something when they dont fully understand it or have some parts incorrect.

You ask what positivity im spreading, well its a positive thing to point out bias and conjecture based on no sound reasoning or evidence.
 
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Sosokrates

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.........that isn't the argument you presented. You stated developers would rather use a split pool over a unified pool. :messenger_loudly_crying:
Its not a split pool, it still acts as one but with 2 different speeds, well thats what DF said.
Bottom line devs would rather use faster RAM. andbthe slower ram is only 3.5gb which can be used for tasks that dont need as much bandwidth, its a smart solution that delivers faster bandwidth where it is needed.
That graph shows that system ram takes over a quarter of total ram, and the system ram does not need to be as fast.
 
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hyperbertha

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XSX has twice the bamdwidth of the PS5;
896 GB/s vs 448 GB/s.
And PS5 has to share that with the CPU.
Did you just add 560 + 336 Gbps to make 896Gbps? Please explain that logic. Also I was talking about I/O bandwidth not memory.
And both Xbox and Ps5 has the same Ram. Don't know where you're pulling all this from.

Also please explain what you mean by ps5 sharing it with cpu and how its different from xbox.

XSX's ram is also likely faster, which means less latency.
Why do you think this? Both use the same GDDR6 ram from what I saw.


Kracken is not proprietary, XSX could use it too.
But it doesn't.


Not to mention the SSD in XSX is soldered onto the board, so less latency there as well, so it's not going to have any problems with seek times.
And ps5's ssd isn't? Genuinely curious.


And as far as PS5's 5 GB/s speed SSD is concerned, taking into account how hot NVME drives get, at 5 GB/s it would undoubtedly cause the CPU/GPU to throttle., cancelling out any advantage the speed would provide.
And of course Mark Cerny is an idiot who wouldn't take into account how the drive he himself designed gets hot, and throttled to nullify that 5GBps he worked so hard to achieve I suppose.

XSX's SSD will be just as capable as the PS5's, if not superior, in real world use.
All evidence points to the opposite so far.
 
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ZywyPL

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I honestly believe that SSD being the major focus was solely because of 1st party studios demand, it just fits their rich open-world walking simulators too damn well to be a coincidence. I expect HZD2 or DS2 to take full advantage of the tech.
 
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~Fake

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Cerny was very confident in the cooling solution and said people would be excited about. He also recognized their short comings in the cooling/noise department in the past
This Variable frequency/constants power design philosophy is pretty revolutionary as it not only enables higher clocks but also easier to develop a cooling solution for the worst case.
Supposedly worst case game will only need minor downclock "a couple percent frequency reduction"


Pricing is key, PS5 needs to target $399
You missed the article about the initial cost of PS5. Will update you on the next gen thread.
 
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This exactly what i think, the new PS5 feels more like the PS3 then PS4 by itself. They did a good job on making it so complicated as possible.
Granted it does not feel like a complete win for Sony, which is very much not a PS4 moment.

However the problems with the PS3 were multiple, it was pretty hard to take advantage of its potential, the 360 had been on the market for about 1 year and it was definitely loved by those who had it... the top end model was pretty expensive, etc.

I mean, if Sony did not have their amazing studios to save the hardware side of the business they would be a very different company today, I'm not even sure there would be a PS5.

As for the comparisons between the PS5/series x, you guys all speculate - AS I DO - granted the GPU has more power, I mean you can't argue with the numbers, but it's not like they were in different leagues, 17% is not that much... So I'm waiting for final comparisons.

BC is a nice to have, but this is not a very forward looking feature, and for the 360/OG xbox it does not support close to half of their respective libraries (still MS offers something for their older consoles, which is nice).

I see tons of fanboys on both sides, people acting as if MS had released a machine that is twice as fast and Sony's machine had no benefits to it at all... that all makes zero sense... people should calm down and wait until we have actual use cases to compare, then we can argue if the differences are meaningful for each of us and insult those who disagree with our personal take.
 

sinnergy

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[I'm just gunna quote from the DF article how most everything you said is wrong, and bracket in my anecdotes.]

[NVME SSDs all have virtually no seek times. I think it is actually none on some newer ones. Seek times like described in the PS5 deep dive, are the read head literally moving on A HDD, which an SSD obvi doesn't have]



The final component in the triumvirate is an extension to DirectX - DirectStorage - a necessary upgrade bearing in mind that existing file I/O protocols are knocking on for 30 years old, and in their current form would require two Zen CPU cores simply to cover the overhead, which DirectStorage reduces to just one tenth of single core.

"Plus it has other benefits," enthuses Andrew Goossen. "It's less latent and it saves a ton of CPU. With the best competitive solution, we found doing decompression software to match the SSD rate would have consumed three Zen 2 CPU cores. When you add in the IO CPU overhead, that's another two cores. So the resulting workload would have completely consumed five Zen 2 CPU cores when now it only takes a tenth of a CPU core. "



[This is True!]




It's a system that Microsoft calls the Velocity Architecture and the SSD itself is just one part of the system.

"Our second component is a high-speed hardware decompression block that can deliver over 6GB/s," reveals Andrew Goossen. "This is a dedicated silicon block that offloads decompression work from the CPU and is matched to the SSD so that decompression is never a bottleneck. The decompression hardware supports Zlib for general data and a new compression [system] called BCPack that is tailored to the GPU textures that typically comprise the vast majority of a game's package size."





The form factor is cute, the 2.4GB/s of guaranteed throughput is impressive, but it's the software APIs and custom hardware built into the SoC that deliver what Microsoft believes to be a revolution - a new way of using storage to augment memory (an area where no platform holder will be able to deliver a more traditional generational leap). The idea, in basic terms at least, is pretty straightforward - the game package that sits on storage essentially becomes extended memory, allowing 100GB of game assets stored on the SSD to be instantly accessible by the developer.


A technique called Sampler Feedback Streaming - SFS - was built to more closely marry the memory demands of the GPU, intelligently loading in the texture mip data that's actually required with the guarantee of a lower quality mip available if the higher quality version isn't readily available, stopping GPU stalls and frame-time spikes. Bespoke hardware within the GPU is available to smooth the transition between mips, on the off-chance that the higher quality texture arrives a frame or two later. Microsoft considers these aspects of the Velocity Architecture to be a genuine game-changer, adding a multiplier to how physical memory is utilised.

The Velocity Architecture also facilitates another feature that sounds impressive on paper but is even more remarkable when you actually see it play out on the actual console. Quick Resume effectively allows users to cycle between saved game states, with just a few seconds' loading - you can see it in action in the video above. When you leave a game, system RAM is cached off to SSD and when you access another title, its cache is then restored. From the perspective of the game itself, it has no real idea what is happening in the background - it simply thinks that the user has pressed the guide button and the game can resume as per normal.

[XSX is clearly using the SSD to change how it does many things. It honestly sounds a lot like what Sony is doing, just slower. And then you have the multi game suspend/resume, which Sony have made no mention of. All in all, the primary differentiation here is speed alone]
Seeing they use two methods of compression simultaneously, also for gpu BCpack and Zlib , we don’t know what those benefits are.. supposed to PS5 tech.
 
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NXGamer

Junior Member
Jan 7, 2016
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Glad he upfront admits that the XSX is the more powerful.
He says the ps5 is made for developers by developers, is he implying Microsoft are not?
And what is he talking about regarding the ram lol, the XsX is better, this guy is just flat out wrong about the PS5s ram lol he does not know what he is talking about, and he is just pulling stuff out his ass about the ps5 not needing RAM for the OS.

Always thought this was biased towards sony, he just watched the cerny talk and now hes coming up with all these theories because he is butthurt that the PS5 is weaker.

He talks about only the xsx having bottlenecks and just happens to forget potential PS5 bottlenecks, well there are some... Such as

  • Devs have to choose between running the cpu or gpu @ max clocks
  • Raytracing performance may struggle because of only 36cus
  • Later on games could struggle because of just weaker gpu, cpu and ram performance
I love the entire "You are biased and here is why" projection I have seen a great deal today, all this feign "I am not bothered about any of this, he is wrong, no details on why but hey, I am too good for that and also, I am so not invested" attitude. Why are you making anything personal here?

The For Developers comment is, as I do explain in the video, getting the Buy-in from the team to help support the product. Sony know they need the 3rd Party as much as 1st. MS have done a great job and they are pushing things on, but I have spoken with enough Devs in detail on the subject and Sony has/was in a much better place on the PS4 with a better piece of hardware, SDK and support. This carries a great deal of weight and is the factor I am discussing here.

Well his name has been summoned in this thread so I thought he would see.
Im not stamping my feet lol, everything i said is true.
It seems what you said applies to you, look at how angry your getting just because you dont agree with what i say

You also are pulling things out your ass, how do you know if im familiar with nxgamer? lol.
Ive been watching nxgamer on and off for years, but he tends to make things rather personal and he thinks he knows more then he does sometimes, he also trys and comes across as some unbiased technical analyst but his bias towards playstation makes this impossible, however I commend him on making the effort to make the videos, they are well made, I just wish he would be more inpartial and take his ego out of it. I think his videos would be better if he just Purely described things for what they were in a inpartial way, and he stretches his understanding to far sometimes I would respect him more if he did not do these things. Not that I know more then him but I can tell when someone is trying to explain something when they dont fully understand it or have some parts incorrect.

You ask what positivity im spreading, well its a positive thing to point out bias and conjecture based on no sound reasoning or evidence.
I have the ego?, I actually find that almost all people that know me and watch me think the opposite, but I am happy to discuss this why do I have an ego?

And what am I "getting wrong" or stretching here so you can enlighten me?
 

Johnglen

Report me if I continue to console war
Apr 1, 2018
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I love the entire "You are biased and here is why" projection I have seen a great deal today, all this feign "I am not bothered about any of this, he is wrong, no details on why but hey, I am too good for that and also, I am so not invested" attitude. Why are you making anything personal here?

The For Developers comment is, as I do explain in the video, getting the Buy-in from the team to help support the product. Sony know they need the 3rd Party as much as 1st. MS have done a great job and they are pushing things on, but I have spoken with enough Devs in detail on the subject and Sony has/was in a much better place on the PS4 with a better piece of hardware, SDK and support. This carries a great deal of weight and is the factor I am discussing here.



I have the ego?, I actually find that almost all people that know me and watch me think the opposite, but I am happy to discuss this why do I have an ego?

And what am I "getting wrong" or stretching here so you can enlighten me?
You are as biased as they come. Your whole new video is like a piece of propaganda «Sony made a console by developers for developers» GTFOH with this bullshit. You even speculate on stuff that Cerny didn’t even dare to imply like the whole OS in the SSD thing that you invented. Sony states the GPU&CPU clock speeds in their freakin OFFICIAL SPEC SHEET as «variable» you state them as «actuals».
You have shown your true colors even during the Xbox one x vs. ps4 pro game comparisons when Sony fans here and in the other forum were screaming «ignore digital foundry, this guy is telling the truth».
 
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I Love Rock 'n' Roll

Gold Member
Sep 19, 2017
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You are as biased as they come. Your whole new video is like a piece of propaganda «Sony made a console by developers for developers» GTFOH with this bullshit. You even speculate on stuff that Cerny didn’t even dare to imply like the whole OS in the SSD thing that you invented. Sony states the GPU&CPU clock speeds in their freakin OFFICIAL SPEC SHEET as «variable» you state them as «actuals».
You have shown your true colors even during the Xbox one x vs. ps4 pro game comparisons when Sony fans here and in the other forum were screaming «ignore digital foundry, this guy is telling the truth».
That is what Cerny said. He also said he spent 2 years talking with devs to learn what they want for a new Playstation. Any reason to think he lied?
 

NXGamer

Junior Member
Jan 7, 2016
538
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You are as biased as they come. Your whole new video is like a piece of propaganda «Sony made a console by developers for developers» GTFOH with this bullshit. You even speculate on stuff that Cerny didn’t even dare to imply like the whole OS in the SSD thing that you invented. Sony states the GPU&CPU clock speeds in their freakin OFFICIAL SPEC SHEET as «variable» you state them as «actuals».
You have shown your true colors even during the Xbox one x vs. ps4 pro game comparisons when Sony fans here and in the other forum were screaming «ignore digital foundry, this guy is telling the truth».
Calm down man, come on :messenger_pensive:

WHY and HOW am I biased, this is not proganda this is just discussing tech. I even say in my video the rates ARE variable and i even show that this is the case now for PC hardware, it is now new. But to help clear it up. The PS5 clocks ARE variable as required by the load.

As the for the second part, I am truly lost.
 
Nov 5, 2016
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Calm down man, come on :messenger_pensive:

WHY and HOW am I biased, this is not proganda this is just discussing tech. I even say in my video the rates ARE variable and i even show that this is the case now for PC hardware, it is now new. But to help clear it up. The PS5 clocks ARE variable as required by the load.

As the for the second part, I am truly lost.
What kind of cooling do you think is gonna be required for the SSD, SSS expansion, and GPU at full clock? This baby is gonna run pretty hot I assume?
 

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
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I love the entire "You are biased and here is why" projection I have seen a great deal today, all this feign "I am not bothered about any of this, he is wrong, no details on why but hey, I am too good for that and also, I am so not invested" attitude. Why are you making anything personal here?

The For Developers comment is, as I do explain in the video, getting the Buy-in from the team to help support the product. Sony know they need the 3rd Party as much as 1st. MS have done a great job and they are pushing things on, but I have spoken with enough Devs in detail on the subject and Sony has/was in a much better place on the PS4 with a better piece of hardware, SDK and support. This carries a great deal of weight and is the factor I am discussing here.



I have the ego?, I actually find that almost all people that know me and watch me think the opposite, but I am happy to discuss this why do I have an ego?

And what am I "getting wrong" or stretching here so you can enlighten me?
And you just talked to the dunces cousin. Watch out, schools off due to bat soup fever - place is full of trolls and they jump ya like Gremlins!

Edit, no offence to the trolls - I do enjoy on occasion, it’s like having an angry doggie around.
 
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ethomaz

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Mar 19, 2013
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So more CUs, lower clocked > less CUs higher clocked?
The opposite since that both delivery the same power.

A 10TFs GPU with more clock and less CUs perform better than a 10TFs GPU with less clock and more CUs.

CPU is the same.
A Dual-core 4Ghz is faster and perform better than a Quad-core 2Ghz.
The CPU test is pretty easy to do doing underclock and disabling cores.
 
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