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Analysis DF Direct: Xbox Series X First Party Games To Run On Xbox One - Is this a good thing?

~Fake

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It's a question only the developers can answer but supporting last-gen machines must surely limit options - and that effectively sums up the principal concern I have with Microsoft's strategy here. Additionally, we can't avoid the fact that the Xbox One S has sometimes struggled to deliver decent versions of current-gen games across the course of 2019, so just how is it going to cope with next-gen titles?
Based on Matt Booty's comments, the suggestion is that Hellblade 2 will also ship for Xbox One consoles, as will showcase titles we expect to see in the next couple of years, such as the new Forza Motorsport. While these games may well be 'built to leverage the full power of Xbox Series X', the question is this: to what extent is that actually possible when support for legacy consoles has to be factored in?
Welcome back from vacation D dark10x
 
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o'dium

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Is it the right move? No, not really. Will it matter in the long run? Not at all.

The people who will buy Xbox exclusives will buy them regardless of this, and those who won’t buy them likely never had any intention.

I see what MS are doing, and it’s a valid plan. It’s not as big a deal as some may suggest, but I still think they should have stuck to making SX exclusives instead when I really think about it. But it’s not that big a deal at all.

There are more pressing matters than the 2 and a half Xbox exclusives that will be out year one...

(I’ll watch the video later, but busy atm)
 
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Nikana

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Until we know if this is the "same" game its impossible to say how it will go. Theres history to show that Microsoft has taken the time, money and dev time needed to make the same game on different platforms. And while they are the same in name and core experience, they were clearly games built from the ground up on each machine.
 

o'dium

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Until we know if this is the "same" game its impossible to say how it will go. Theres history to show that Microsoft has taken the time, money and dev time needed to make the same game on different platforms. And while they are the same in name and core experience, they were clearly games built from the ground up on each machine.
Absolutely. I fully expect some of the games to be simple ports, games that look amazing but could have been done on old hardware if they had the power... and others to be total remakes of the same thing, maybe even built by a different studio, in fact.

Hell, it’s been done many times in the past. It’s not easy, but it’s sure as shit the best solution for this problem.
 

Leonidas

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It's the right move. Xbox One X launched at $499 2.2 years ago and it seems that it will get another 3 years of first party games. In that sense it feels good knowing that the Xbox One X still has a lot of life left in it.

It will also make for some interesting comparisons in the future. Xbox One vs. Xbox One X. vs. Xbox Series X vs PC :goog_smile_face_eyes:
 

DynamiteCop!

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Honestly John seems all pissy in this video just like he is on Twitter, rattled by emotion while not actually knowing that much about the processes and what can be done. Then you have Richard who is being calm and citing what I have been repeatedly here about the ways in which games could still target the top end in full but be scaled back for operation on lesser hardware.

This is actually kind of hilarious.

It doesn't have to bottleneck anything, It's like you truly know nothing. Environments can be more closely culled or scaled back, loading can be introduced, geometry can be lessened, LoD's and draw distance can be dialed back, the framerate can be cut in half, AI present in a scene can be scaled back, distant animations can be lower FPS, textures can be lower resolution, reconstruction and dynamic scaling can be put into effect and so on and so forth.

There's a host of things that could be done to the main build of a game which not only doesn't compromise it but allows the downward verticality for function on considerably weaker hardware.
 
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ethomaz

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"We also have examples of Microsoft first-party or console exclusive titles scaling across the generations. The Xbox 360 port of Rise of the Tomb Raider is nothing short of a miracle, while Bluepoint's conversion of Titanfall is another work of art. However, there is an important distinction to make here. These games were designed and made for Xbox One with no thought towards running on older generation hardware - it was left to talented external teams to fashion these impressive downports. And sometimes, the level of compromise was such that the scale and scope of the game had to be cut back significantly. Sumo Digital's port of Forza Horizon 2 is a lovely Xbox 360 game but it's lacking a lot of the Xbox One version's content - and I do wonder whether it would exist at all if Playground Games' original Forza Horizon did not originally launch on Xbox 360 to begin with."

But but but some GAFer tried to say to me that Forza Horizon 2 was a perfect exemple of how games can be scaled across new and old gen :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy:

My biggest worry about this subject is Xbox One holding the whole generation for 3rd-parties... at least Sony exclusives will be out of that mess.
 
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DynamiteCop!

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"We also have examples of Microsoft first-party or console exclusive titles scaling across the generations. The Xbox 360 port of Rise of the Tomb Raider is nothing short of a miracle, while Bluepoint's conversion of Titanfall is another work of art. However, there is an important distinction to make here. These games were designed and made for Xbox One with no thought towards running on older generation hardware - it was left to talented external teams to fashion these impressive downports. And sometimes, the level of compromise was such that the scale and scope of the game had to be cut back significantly. Sumo Digital's port of Forza Horizon 2 is a lovely Xbox 360 game but it's lacking a lot of the Xbox One version's content - and I do wonder whether it would exist at all if Playground Games' original Forza Horizon did not originally launch on Xbox 360 to begin with."

But but but some GAFer tried to say to me that Forza Horizon 2 was a perfect exemple of how games can be scaled across new and old gen :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy:

My biggest worry about this subject is Xbox One holding the whole generation for 3rd-parties... at least Sony exclusives will be out of that mess.
What? He's agreeing with what I said... They took this uncompromised next-gen game and then ported it to a lesser system. That's one thing that can be done and for both Rise of the Tomb Raider and Forza Horizon 2 it was done perfectly.

I think you read what he said here VERY incorrectly.
 

ethomaz

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What? He's agreeing with what I said... They took this uncompromised next-gen game and then ported it to a lesser system. That's one thing that can be done and for both Rise of the Tomb Raider and Forza Horizon 2 it was done perfectly.

I think you read what he said here VERY incorrectly.
Nope.

He is saying exactly what I said before... games are compromised by old gen versions.
Forza Horizon 2 was compromised.
 
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DynamiteCop!

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He is saying exactly what I said before... games are compromised by old gen versions.
Forza Horizon 2 was compromised.
That is not at all what he's saying, your English comprehension is poor. He's clearly saying the games were built for the Xbox One as next-gen experiences with no thought toward running on older generation hardware. Third party port teams took these next-gen builds, compromised the hell out of them and was able to deliver them to the Xbox 360.

Again, your illiteracy with properly understanding written English is causing you confusion.

If you don't have argument...
Except I do, read the paragraph... slowly.
 
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GHG

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Article here as well:


It's a question only the developers can answer but supporting last-gen machines must surely limit options - and that effectively sums up the principal concern I have with Microsoft's strategy here. Additionally, we can't avoid the fact that the Xbox One S has sometimes struggled to deliver decent versions of current-gen games across the course of 2019, so just how is it going to cope with next-gen titles?

~Fake ~Fake might be worth updating the OP with a link to this as well.
 
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shenmue mugen

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Let's say that I buy a cross gen game for my X1X. If I buy the XSEX later would I need to purchase the same game again or could I enjoy it on the newer hardware?
 

~Fake

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That is not at all what he's saying, your English comprehension is poor. He's clearly saying the games were built for the Xbox One as next-gen experiences with no thought toward running on older generation hardware. Third party port teams took these next-gen builds, compromised the hell out of them and was able to deliver them to the Xbox 360.

Again, your illiteracy with properly understanding written English is causing you confusion.
WTF are wrong with you? If you even watch the video he cleary make that point.

Ryse dev move up to Xbox 360 to Xbox One. This is a valid point.
Could you imagine Ryse on Xbox 360? Neither Rich. Just watch the video and stop asking for better english.

Article here as well:





~Fake ~Fake might be worth updating the OP with a link to this as well.
Hey, thx. Will update right now.
 
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Hawking Radiation

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Im no developer but how much effort, resources and how much changes would have to be made a single game made to run on new insanely powerful hardware and older outdated hardware?

I mean how much of the game has to change to be able to run on 2 different generations of hardware? Will this not break the 'vision' of the game?
 

ethomaz

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That is not at all what he's saying, your English comprehension is poor. He's clearly saying the games were built for the Xbox One as next-gen experiences with no thought toward running on older generation hardware. Third party port teams took these next-gen builds, compromised the hell out of them and was able to deliver them to the Xbox 360.

Again, your illiteracy with properly understanding written English is causing you confusion.
Ohhhh trying to twist DF's words?
Typical.
 
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DynamiteCop!

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WTF are wrong with you? If you even watch the video he cleary make that point.

Ryse dev move up to Xbox 360 to Xbox One. This is a valid point.

Hey,thx. Will update right now.
Ohhhh trying to twist DF's words?
Typical.



You guys have some literacy issues, take it in line by line with proper separation.




  • These games were designed and made for Xbox One with no thought towards running on older generation hardware


  • It was left to talented external teams to fashion these impressive downports. (RotTR, FH2, Titanfall for 360)
  • Sometimes, the level of compromise was such that the scale and scope of the game had to be cut back significantly. (of said downport)

  • Sumo Digital's port of Forza Horizon 2 is a lovely Xbox 360 game but it's lacking a lot of the Xbox One version's content

What he's saying is clear as day, you'd have to be intentionally misunderstanding what's being said or have poor literacy with English to get confused. The Xbox One games were built for the Xbox One flat out, next-gen games. Third parties took those next-gen games and reworked the hell out of them to get them running on the 360.
 
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GHG

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Looks like the SSD tech will be the biggest sticking point if anything is designed around the increased throughput:

Lowering world detail may be a potential strategy in getting games designed for an SSD to run from a mechanical hard drive too - but as well as density of objects, the variety of them may well need to be cut back too. This is where I feel that the generational leap may cause some genuine issues. I've discussed in the past how the move to solid state storage not only serves to radically reduce or potentially even eliminate loading times but also brings mass storage closer to the core hardware than we've ever seen before. A console generation is typically defined by a 6x to 8x increase in power, but a 40x increase in bandwidth and a move to virtual memory is a whole different ball game. It's right here where we have to wonder if the scale and scope of new games will be limited by the need to also support the 5400rpm mechanical laptop drives found in the base Xbox One.
The jump from a 5400rpm HDD to potentially a cutting edge SSD will be quite big.
 
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ethomaz

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You guys have some literacy issues, take it in line by line with proper separation.




  • These games were designed and made for Xbox One with no thought towards running on older generation hardware


  • It was left to talented external teams to fashion these impressive downports.
  • Sometimes, the level of compromise was such that the scale and scope of the game had to be cut back significantly.
  • Sumo Digital's port of Forza Horizon 2 is a lovely Xbox 360 game but it's lacking a lot of the Xbox One version's content
  • I do wonder whether it would exist at all if Playground Games' original Forza Horizon did not originally launch on Xbox 360 to begin with.

What he's saying is clear as day, you'd have to be intentionally misunderstanding what's being said or have poor literacy with English to get confused. The Xbox One games were built for the Xbox One flat out, next-gen games. Third parties took those next-gen games and reworked the hell out of them to get them running on the 360.
It is clear but it just doesn’t fit your agenda so you like usual tries to spin :D

Maybe that is why nobody give a shit at you wrote anymore rsssss
 
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webber

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Oh yeah, it WILL hold back games for sure.
Unless they're going to make 2 separate games but still the same game...
... and your brain starts to hurt.
I think it cancels the whole point of launching a new box and, just like on PC, you're just getting better graphical options.
This has been the biggest ? next gen related for me:
What is the best way going forward when talking about forward/backwards compatibility and cross gen?
Is it going to be consumer friendly, no hassle, via patch?
Is it going to be all double dip?
I guess Sony might be going in the right direction if they patch major PS4 exclusives for free, launch with PS5 only exclusives and support cross gen only for third-party games.
 

Vawn

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Of course it sucks for anyone who actually wants next gen games. Every Xbox SeX game will have to be first made for the 2013 1 TF Xbone. Only then can they bump up resolution, etc for the more powerful hardware, but no games will be made strictly around the new hardware.

For casual players who happen to own an Xbone and don't want to spend next gen money, they still get to keep getting new games.

Looks like the only true next-gen games will be on PS5 - at least for the foreseeable future.
 
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DynamiteCop!

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Is this what it's come to? Attacking someone's command of English instead of having a proper debate with them?
Yes, 100% because when they can't understand what they're reading they dive into a tangent from the onset which is wrong.

Also I leveraged the debate at the same time as well as pointing out his total misunderstanding. It's almost as if you can tell someone they're wrong on the basis of their lack of understanding English composition while at the same time correcting their misunderstanding.

This is a recurring issue with Ethomaz, this happens quite a lot. He reads something improperly due to English being a second language to him and runs with it.
 
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ethomaz

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Yes, 100% because when they can't understand what they're reading they dive into a tangent from the onset which is wrong.

Also I leveraged the debate at the same time as well as pointing out his total misunderstanding. It's almost as if you can tell someone they're wrong on the basis of their lack of understanding English composition while at the same time correcting their misunderstanding.

This is a recurring issue with Ethomaz, this happens quite a lot. He reads something improperly due to English being a second language to him and runs with it.
Instead to blame the read compressions of other you should first try to do that yourself because the article and video are pretty clear about the compromises even with two teams developing the games.

Just don’t keep quoting others with useless posts if you can’t proper read the text.

Well at least it is laughable.
 
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DynamiteCop!

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Instead to blame the read compressions of other you should first try to do that yourself because the article and video are pretty clear about the compromises even with two teams developing the games.
This can't be confused unless you can't understand what you're reading.

"We also have examples of Microsoft first-party or console exclusive titles scaling across the generations. The Xbox 360 port of Rise of the Tomb Raider is nothing short of a miracle, while Bluepoint's conversion of Titanfall is another work of art. However, there is an important distinction to make here. These games were designed and made for Xbox One with no thought towards running on older generation hardware - it was left to talented external teams to fashion these impressive downports. And sometimes, the level of compromise was such that the scale and scope of the game had to be cut back significantly. Sumo Digital's port of Forza Horizon 2 is a lovely Xbox 360 game but it's lacking a lot of the Xbox One version's content - and I do wonder whether it would exist at all if Playground Games' original Forza Horizon did not originally launch on Xbox 360 to begin with."
This paragraph as plain as day is saying the Xbox One versions of the games (Rise of the Tomb Raider, Titanfall, Forza Horizon 2) were built with no thought of the Xbox 360 in mind. They are full stop Xbox One games. However external teams were able to take these builds and compromise them heavily for operation on the Xbox 360. The net result is untouched Xbox One code which was only developed for the Xbox One, and that same code being taken by third party port studios to heavily rework for the 360.

What are you not understanding here?
 

ethomaz

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This can't be confused unless you can't understand what you're reading.



This paragraph as plain as day is saying the Xbox One versions of the games (Rise of the Tomb Raider, Titanfall, Forza Horizon 2) were built with no thought of the Xbox 360 in mind. They are full stop Xbox One games. However external teams were able to take these builds and compromise them heavily for operation on the Xbox 360. The net result is untouched Xbox One code which was only developed for the Xbox One, and that same code being taken by third party port studios to heavily rework for the 360.

What are you not understanding here?
They example says that MS had to use two teams developing two different games to try to not compromised the XB1 version.

Even so...

“And sometimes, the level of compromise was such that the scale and scope of the game had to be cut back significantly.”

When they scale and scope of the game they are talking about the vision being compromised due the lower version.
 
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DynamiteCop!

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They example says that MS had to use two teams developing two different games to try to not compromised the XB1 version.

Even so...

“And sometimes, the level of compromise was such that the scale and scope of the game had to be cut back significantly.”

Like FH2.
That's referring to the 360 builds.... Like I said you don't understand what you're reading...
 

ethomaz

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That's referring to the 360 builds.... Like I said you don't understand what you're reading...
Nope.

The game... not the version...

“And sometimes, the level of compromise [of 360 version] was such that the scale and scope of the game [project, that include both version] had to be cut back significantly.”
 
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OneShotThrill

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This can't be confused unless you can't understand what you're reading.



This paragraph as plain as day is saying the Xbox One versions of the games (Rise of the Tomb Raider, Titanfall, Forza Horizon 2) were built with no thought of the Xbox 360 in mind. They are full stop Xbox One games. However external teams were able to take these builds and compromise them heavily for operation on the Xbox 360. The net result is untouched Xbox One code which was only developed for the Xbox One, and that same code being taken by third party port studios to heavily rework for the 360.

What are you not understanding here?
Heres an honest question... Do you think Microsoft resources would be better allocated towards producing new IPs and better gaming experiences for the next gen systems or do you think this formula is better?
 
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DynamiteCop!

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Heres an honest question... Do you think Microsoft resources would be better allocated towards producing new IPs and better gaming experiences for the next gen systems or do you think this formula is better?
I think it's smart to have a short transitional period if they can effectively pull it off. As they've shown previously with their own games and games they've directly backed it's not a developmental problem. They have plenty of capital and there's plenty of resources both internally and externally to tackle these tasks.

There's ways to navigate it that result in what you would expect on a next-gen console and also give the people with lesser hardware who simply can't transition yet an opportunity to play a modified take on that next-gen experience.
 
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ethomaz

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Heres an honest question... Do you think Microsoft resources would be better allocated towards producing new IPs and better gaming experiences for the next gen systems or do you think this formula is better?
They will change that instance if PS5 games start to look leaps ahead...

That is exactly why they are careful saying only the first year won’t have exclusives.
 
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Branthrax

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Don't think it matters considering cross-gen games are gonna be a thing for the first 2-3 years I would say which is in line with when Xbox says they'll go full next-gen development.
 
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DynamiteCop!

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Nope.

The game... not the version...

“And sometimes, the level of compromise [of 360 version] was such that the scale and scope of the game [project, that include both version] had to be cut back significantly.”
No, and I'm blocking you now because I can't tolerate having to play translator for you constantly. It's insane.
 
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FranXico

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Let's say that I buy a cross gen game for my X1X. If I buy the XSEX later would I need to purchase the same game again or could I enjoy it on the newer hardware?
You should be able to play it on the XSX without a problem. BC will also enhance it on newer hardware. If there is a separate native version of the game and it somehow differs from the version you want to play, that remains to be seen. But I wouldn't worry about that.
 
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GHG

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*sigh*

Yet again... one more time...

Third parties... are free... to do... whatever they want.

Want the full spec of the SX and not release for older hardware? Go for it. Want it to run on everything? Be their guest.

So, let’s say jt from the top, one more time...

THIRD PARTIES CAN RELEASE GAMES “JUST” ON SERIES X.
As long as that's the case then I couldn't give a shit what they decide to do. The only games that potentially get compromised are their own ones. At least then we will see SSD's and CPU's being utilised more on the PC side as well.

MS should buy Bluepoint and just put them on full time port duty.
What a horrible waste of resources that would be. These guys are masters at modernising games, not taking games and compromising them to work on older hardware.
 
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o'dium

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As long as that's the case then I couldn't give a shit what they decide to do. The only games that potentially get compromised are their own ones. At least then we will see SSD's and CPU's being utilised more on the PC side as well.
Exactly. So to sum up this whole piss storm in a fart bag:

- only MS exclusives are going to work on older hardware.
- third party games can do anything they want, including only releasing games for the SX spec that won’t work on Xbox One/Xbox One S/Xbox One X.
- The MS exclusives will only work on older hardware for anywhere to 1 year to 2, however, let’s be honest, that will be 1 tops after the backlash.
- Even then, the only major issues on the games having to work on older hardware will be more work. More work, on barely a handful of titles. That apparently, nobody will want to play anyway because MS has shit tier exclusives, apparently.
- And even then, because of the way games are made, you won’t be seeing devs take major advantage of everything the hardware can do for years.

So in other words this whole bloody discussion is fuelled by misinformation, fan boy bullshit, and nonsense.

Peace out, bitches.
 
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urmie

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This can't be confused unless you can't understand what you're reading.

This paragraph as plain as day is saying the Xbox One versions of the games (Rise of the Tomb Raider, Titanfall, Forza Horizon 2) were built with no thought of the Xbox 360 in mind. They are full stop Xbox One games. However external teams were able to take these builds and compromise them heavily for operation on the Xbox 360. The net result is untouched Xbox One code which was only developed for the Xbox One, and that same code being taken by third party port studios to heavily rework for the 360.

What are you not understanding here?
100% correct. Sumo Digital created the 360 version off of the X1 version and did their best since FH was pretty new franchise and they wanted to give 360 users who might of purchased FH1 something rather than shafting them, that's clear as day. Playground Games/Turn 10 did the XboxOne version, which was obviously the main game, fully featured. Others beyond were X1 only.

What bugs me is that FH2 is the only one not "X-enhanced", so I hope down the line, it is, would look amazing in 4K.