[DF] Exclusive - Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition: Xbox Series X|S DF Tech Review

Venom Snake

Member
Series X does what i expected it to do. (y)

As for XSS... If there was a 60fps option without RT but with improved image quality, this would be the one i would choose instead.
 

dcmk7

Banned
Pop in exists on the XSX too. Glad you mentioned the Switch too. How does this game run on that platform sir? I assume the same since you brought it up.
Pop-in does exist on XSX. It's no-where near as bad.

I said the XSS pop-in reminds me of a specific game on the Switch. Which is equally distracting. Not sure how on earth you managed to misread what I said bud.
 
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Spidey Fan

Banned
I thought they were Nintendo games.
:messenger_beaming:
Thnx for the sarcastic response.
Arrested Development Eye Roll GIF
 

scydrex

Member
So your solution is to spend more money? Are you going to provide the extra funds? This goes against the entire point of having a low end inexpensive device meant for the masses. A low end device that has more 120fps games than the device that costs more. Plus the $100 you save actually let's you get the XSS AND this game. Or could pay for Game Pass for almost a year. The $100 price increase doesn't actually give you more games. Doesn't sound like a great deal to me.
For my knowledge are there any 1080p 120hz TV? In my country is not a low end device. Here if you can buy it then you can buy an X or a PS5.
 
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yamaci17

Member
512p in 2021.
new argument unlocked = 540p looks good on 1080p

apparently, developers should push 540p 120 fps, since it looks okay at 1080p somehow. why push 1080p 60 when you can push 540p 120! (after all, these are the people who scorned dlss at 1080p, saying that internal resolution of 720p was not enough "pixels" to work with. but all of a sudden, temporal reconstructing from 512p is okay for 1080p screens. hypocrisy much?)

be real with me, how many people scorned me and other various people on forums when they said ray tracing is playable with a rtx 2060 at 1080p with dlss quality/dlss balanced. 512p taa gets a pass but 1080p dlss quality doesn't.
 
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yamaci17

Member
Wow those cuts..

/taps 3060, not even the card I wanted, but it purrs in this game at ultrawide 1440p and DLSS with all RT effects.

with gorgegous tesselation effects which game heavily utilizes and some cool hairworks on top of that
 
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Md Ray

Member
So your solution is to spend more money? Are you going to provide the extra funds? This goes against the entire point of having a low end inexpensive device meant for the masses. A low end device that has more 120fps games than the device that costs more. Plus the $100 you save actually let's you get the XSS AND this game. Or could pay for Game Pass for almost a year. The $100 price increase doesn't actually give you more games. Doesn't sound like a great deal to me.
The question is how much more money... In my case, if I pay just 14% more I get a dramatically better experience than Series S. It has more 120fps games in last-gen games, thanks to good BC support, but I'll trade that for a vastly better experience in upcoming next-gen games something the Series S will undoubtedly struggle to provide.
 

SlimySnake

The Contrarian
LMAO dude that’s what optimization means. It’s always meant knowing what to cut. What do you think they just typed in /sudo run better/
No it could mean several things. You can improve your engine pipeline. You can use different AA solutions. For example, see how Sony games went from traditional AA done on the GPU to MLAA done on the cell. See how insomniac literally just doubled the ray traced reflections from 1080p to 4kcb just by doing optimizations. Did they take out tessellation like 4A games did from the xsx version? No. Did they lower the geometric detail? No. Did the game get a downgrade from its first reveal? No. Both versions ran at native 4k 30 fps and within 8 months, It literally got an upgrade because they were able to get more out of the system and their engine.

Optimizations dont have a negative connotation to it like downgrades do. It's why Microsoft and Sony so proudly use the term 'Optimized for PS5 and XSX'. It tells the buyers that they will be getting an upgraded version.

Going back to Ratchet, their 60 fps version is a downgrade. Worse lighting. Worse VFX. Worse screen density. You can call them optimizations but that's a downgrade from its 30 fps mode. Calling those downgrades optimizations is just PR nonsense that DF shouldnt be parroting.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
Wow those cuts..

/taps 3060, not even the card I wanted, but it purrs in this game at ultrawide 1440p and DLSS with all RT effects.
That’s kinda awesome really! Makes me hopeful that triple screen RT can be doable, not suitable in this game I guess but if Forza Horizon 5 have RT on PC then holy crap it’s gonna be looker!
 
Thee question is how much more money... In my case, if I pay just 14% more I get a dramatically better experience than Series S. It has more 120fps games in last-gen games, thanks to good BC support, but I'll trade that for a vastly better experience in upcoming next-gen games something the Series S will undoubtedly struggle to provide.

PS5 Digital and Series S are made with completely opposite intent.

Series S is supposed to be widely available, easily discountable, making less loss as possible.

PS5 Digital is for using in marketing banners, and stopping people from picking series s. Is supposed to be available in limited quantities as makes huge loss for Sony per unit sold.

One is mass market console, other is marketing gimmick. So cannot be compared.

Quoting myself about this "how ps5 DE is legit replacement for series s"
 

Dibils2k

Member
feels like they could have offered another option for near 4k/30fps with GI and maybe more graphical features
 
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This enhanced version was designed for RTGI. In PC, RTX 2060 is minimum requirement.

Series S could easily run at 1080p 60fps without RTGI.

Maybe that's why Doom Eternal doesn't have RT on Xbox Series S. Too expensive for this machine.
 
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thatJohann

Member
44 seconds loading... I stopped playing this on the one x because the loading times were horrendous. That is a big improvement

I guess they are not using the SSD APIs. Honestly, I hope the loading is faster on the PS5 version cause 44 seconds now sounds like an eternity! we are getting spoiled with all these XSX and PS5 games using the SSD
 

sncvsrtoip

Member
Going back to Ratchet, their 60 fps version is a downgrade. Worse lighting. Worse VFX. Worse screen density. You can call them optimizations but that's a downgrade from its 30 fps mode. Calling those downgrades optimizations is just PR nonsense that DF shouldnt be parroting.
lightning is same (just lower resolution as general there is lower resolution)
 

JackMcGunns

Member
I guess they are not using the SSD APIs. Honestly, I hope the loading is faster on the PS5 version cause 44 seconds now sounds like an eternity! we are getting spoiled with all these XSX and PS5 games using the SSD

It used to take 2:42 on X1X, that shaved off 2:00 minutes!
 

GHG

Member

SlimySnake

The Contrarian
It will look just fine on a 1080p screen that Series S is made for. They should have just made Series S version 30fps, but it's not the end of the world considering it's targeting a demographic of users that don't care too much for graphics, similar to Switch owners. It's pretty obvious that people who are complaining are not the target audience for this console and have no intention of playing on it, they are just here for fake outrage.
Really? I am on a 1080p monitor right now and the DF video looks very blurry to me. I remember when I had a smallish 720p tv I bought for my PS3, I could immediately tell that sub 720p games like MGS4 and other third party games in year 1 did not look as clean as games like Ratchet and Uncharted Drake's Fortune. But it was when I upgraded to a 1080p screen that shimmering started to really become noticeable even in 720p games. I still remember bitching about Castlevania lords of shadow since it was far bigger in scope compared to GoW which was fairly linear and camera controlled. Anything further in the distance added shimmering that made everything look very very messy.

Same thing happened to native 1080p games like Batman Arkham Knight as soon as I bought a 4k tv. It looks disgusting. Looks fine indoors but as soon as you start flying around, shimmering and jaggies everywhere. DriveClub too. It's like a completely different game on a 4k tv with just a quarter of a resolution.

I agree that the demographic doesnt care about the graphics, but there has to be some quality control here. I think my suggestion of capping it at 720p isnt really that unreasonable. MS has to do some quality control here. Even cyberpunk doesnt go below 720p on the base xbox one. 512p is literally a quarter resolution and its gonna show.
 
Pop-in does exist on XSX. It's no-where near as bad.

I said the XSS pop-in reminds me of a specific game on the Switch. Which is equally distracting. Not sure how on earth you managed to misread what I said bud.
I don't know how anyone can in good faith can mention the Switch with any relation to the XSS. They platforms are doing completely different things and have completely different capabilities. You know what else has pop in? Star Fox on the Super Nintendo. You know what that has to do with the XSS? Nothing.

The question is how much more money... In my case, if I pay just 14% more I get a dramatically better experience than Series S. It has more 120fps games in last-gen games, thanks to good BC support, but I'll trade that for a vastly better experience in upcoming next-gen games something the Series S will undoubtedly struggle to provide.
The real question is who is going to provide that extra money? Are you going to pay the difference? One of the biggest selling points of the XSS is it's low price point. Telling someone to pay more money for a more expensive device that offers less in terms of games that run at 120fps and doesn't offer a value like Game Pass isn't a real alternative. Perhaps you aren't the target audience for this device so if that's the case you have no more need for 'concern'.

The XSS has the same CPU and SSD as the XSX. All Xbox games hit PC. Why is the XSS specifically going to struggle but low end PCs won't? For all the struggle you are talking about this game still runs rings around how the game ran on last gen consoles. If developers use the features available to then XSS development will be just fine.

For my knowledge are there any 1080p 120hz TV? In my country is not a low end device. Here if you can buy it then you can buy an X or a PS5.

I'm glad you asked. Yes. They are called computer monitors. You can buy a cheap 1080p 120+ hz monitor for less than $200. Xboxs work on more than just televisions. I'm sure they sell in countries around the globe.
 
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dcmk7

Banned
Well at least 4A warned everyone of what was to come:

They got so much stick for that quote.

Comments weren't to be taken seriously because they hadn't contacted MS support line or something along those lines.
 
Seems like an amazing upgrade for Series X (and hopefully PS5 also).

Series S ... 500p or some shit ... oh man. Knowing how high-end the lighting is, and running at 60fps, it's kinda understandable why Series S is struggling. Probably should have left the Series S at 30fps, though I guess people would complain about that too.
 

GHG

Member
They got so much stick for that quote.

Comments weren't to be taken seriously because they hadn't contacted MS support line or something along those lines.

Just reading back through that thread now and there's some embarrassing shit in there.

People accusing the devs of not putting in the work, accusing them of being lazy, accusing them of making stuff up for headlines and attention.

Like... Just look at the spec sheet, what does anyone expect?
 

JackMcGunns

Member
Def an improvement, but I don't think I've seen any native XSX or PS5 games with loading past 10-15 seconds. So 44 seconds seems unusually long. The PC version loaded in 27 seconds for example.


Yea, it looks like there's room for improvement. 17s isn't a dealbreaker for me though. 2 minutes however, holy shit how can people wait this long?
 

dcmk7

Banned
I don't know how anyone can in good faith can mention the Switch with any relation to the XSS. They platforms are doing completely different things and have completely different capabilities. You know what else has pop in? Star Fox on the Super Nintendo. You know what that has to do with the XSS? Nothing.
It reminds me of pop-in from another game, which happens to be on the Switch. Yeh?

Just because the pop-in reminds me of a game on another platform, I'm not comparing the two platforms technical capabilities. I have never said that.

It's really bad pop-in on both of those games. Alex from DF is even shocked by it. Not quite sure why you're so upset.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Like i have said nuemous times, ray tracing should of been kept for the mid gen consoles. In fact Ray tracing would of been anice hook for the mid gen consoles, beccause i dont know what other 'hook' they can have because they certainly wont have the power to get anywhere close to 8k.

Having said that, the fact that little Series S is running a game like Metro Exodus at 60fps with ray traced global illumination, well its some kinf of magic, low resolution or not.

The raytracing in other next-gen games have been fine. No reason to crap on all of them.
 

GHG

Member
The XSS has the same CPU and SSD as the XSX. All Xbox games hit PC. Why is the XSS specifically going to struggle but low end PCs won't? For all the struggle you are talking about this game still runs rings around how the game ran on last gen consoles. If developers use the features available to then XSS development will be just fine.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe there's a single ray tracing capable GPU that has as few teraflops as the Series S.

These are the requirements for the enhanced edition of metro exodus EE:



The Series S is below the minimum specs here.

Saying "oh but PC's" doesn't fly on this occasion.
 

SlimySnake

The Contrarian
Well at least 4A warned everyone of what was to come:


There is a silver lining here. At least it's not holding back the series x version like we had feared. It seems it will not be the lowest common denominator so I was wrong about that. And I am happy to be wrong about that.

But they were definitely not lying about the GPU being the bottleneck instead of the RAM. The XSX GPU is 3x more powerful. So technically it should be pushing 3x more pixels seeing as how the CPU and SSD/IO are the same. But we are not seeing that. Alex said how the forest level drops to 512p on xss and 1296p on the XSX. Thats roughly ~500k pixels vs ~3 million pixels. Around 6x more pixels. Even at its 1080p lowest bound which the xsx rarely hits, we are looking at well over a 4x pixel increase.

It;s the damn AMD RT implementation. Alex already found that the PS5 and XSX were offering just around 2060 levels of performance in Watch Dogs. XSS had no chance especially at 60 fps
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe there's a single ray tracing capable GPU that has as few teraflops as the Series S.

These are the requirements for the enhanced edition of metro exodus EE:



The Series S is below the minimum specs here.

Saying "oh but PC's" doesn't fly on this occasion.
They could've locked the game at 30 fps and it would easily run at 1080p or even above in some cases. They chose frame rate over resolution though. Framerate is king?
 

dcmk7

Banned
Just reading back through that thread now and there's some embarrassing shit in there.

People accusing the devs of not putting in the work, accusing them of being lazy, accusing them of making stuff up for headlines and attention.

Like... Just look at the spec sheet, what does anyone expect?
That thread is a travesty. The level of ignorance is out of this world.

I think the game they have put out there is the very the best they can do - at this point in time. I get a sense that they are always looking to push the limits and try new things, certainly not lazy and complacent!
 

dcmk7

Banned
There is a silver lining here. At least it's not holding back the series x version like we had feared. It seems it will not be the lowest common denominator so I was wrong about that. And I am happy to be wrong about that.

But they were definitely not lying about the GPU being the bottleneck instead of the RAM. The XSX GPU is 3x more powerful. So technically it should be pushing 3x more pixels seeing as how the CPU and SSD/IO are the same. But we are not seeing that. Alex said how the forest level drops to 512p on xss and 1296p on the XSX. Thats roughly ~500k pixels vs ~3 million pixels. Around 6x more pixels. Even at its 1080p lowest bound which the xsx rarely hits, we are looking at well over a 4x pixel increase.

It;s the damn AMD RT implementation. Alex already found that the PS5 and XSX were offering just around 2060 levels of performance in Watch Dogs. XSS had no chance especially at 60 fps
How do you see things going as we get further into the generation?
 

SlimySnake

The Contrarian
The raytracing in other next-gen games have been fine. No reason to crap on all of them.
Nah, I am with Stuart on this. Those other games are just doing ray traced reflections. This game is literally built around ray tracing. Every single light source is ray traced. That is way more computationally expensive than ray traced reflections which are at times completely missing from scenes depending on the setting. For example, Ratchet has levels that are wide open fields. No glass or reflective surfaces in sight. The only thing the game uses ray tracing for in those levels is ratchet's suit and clank's body and robotic enemies if you run into them. That's it.

For Metro, it doesnt matter if you are in a tight corridor or in a wide open field, ray tracing is working 100% of the time. It's used for lighting, it's used for shadows, it's used for AO.

When UE5 first demo'd the PS5 last year, they were using software based GI. They were able to hit 1440p 30 fps. This year, they added support for hardware accelerated GI using persumably the ray tracing hardware in the PS5. The resolution was cut down to 1080p. RT GI is simply not needed this gen.

How do you see things going as we get further into the generation?

Devs will treat it like the switch ports of MK, Doom, Witcher 3 and Wolfenstein. It will not be pretty but DF was happy with them and pretty much all switch owners praised them just like the xss owners in this thread are praising this game so I think it will be fine for everyone. People who buy the switch and xss are not the kind of people who go to DF threads and now that the hardcore DF viewers know that xss wont hold back gaming, we dont need to worry about it either.
 
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It reminds me of pop-in from another game, which happens to be on the Switch. Yeh?

Just because the pop-in reminds me of a game on another platform, I'm not comparing the two platforms technical capabilities. I have never said that.

It's really bad pop-in on both of those games. Alex from DF is even shocked by it. Not quite sure why you're so upset.

Pop in seems like a bug.

It's happening when there is basically nothing else on the screen.
 

GHG

Member
They could've locked the game at 30 fps and it would easily run at 1080p or even above in some cases. They chose frame rate over resolution though. Framerate is king?

Depends on what the bottleneck is, only they will know in this case.

At the end of the day they promised 60fps on next gen consoles and this is their way of delivering on that promise.

Maybe they could have done 30fps, or they could have dropped ray tracing entirely for the series S but then you run into a situation where an entirely new SKU needs to be created just for the Series S. There's no easy solution for them here.

That thread is a travesty. The level of ignorance is out of this world.

I think the game they have put out there is the very the best they can do - at this point in time. I get a sense that they are always looking to push the limits and try new things, certainly not lazy and complacent!

Yep in a lot of cases the lighting looks stunning on the PC version, some of the best real time lighting you can find anywhere, it's just the asset quality that let's it down from time to time.

Other than Quake RTX I think this is the first game where the entire lighting solution is reliant on ray tracing. How anyone can call them "lazy" is beyond me. The game plays well, isn't full of bugs and it looks great to boot.

People call these guys lazy while giving the likes of CDPR all the rope in the world with which to hang themselves? Makes no sense.
 
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