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Analysis [DF] Exclusive - Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition: Xbox Series X|S DF Tech Review

Sep 18, 2019
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Do you hold this same energy around games like Returnal at 1080p 60 FPS and 1440p with DRS 60 fps PS5 / Xbox Series X games?
There is a difference as Returnal at 1080p always looks sharp and great (and reconstructed to 1620p). It's not only about what the official resolution is (that's for the marketing team), it's more about assets resolution, post effects, quality of reconstruction etc.

Here it's down to 512p and stuff can look even lower than that because of the cheap tech (RDNA2 VRS) used.
 

DenchDeckard

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There is a difference as Returnal at 1080p always looks sharp and great (and reconstructed to 1620p). It's not only about what the official resolution is (that's for the marketing team), it's more about assets resolution, post effects, quality of reconstruction etc.

Here it's down to 512p and stuff can look even lower than that because of the cheap tech (RDNA2 VRS) used.

OK but this game is doing full global gi with raytracing and more. Its obviously a very demanding game that they've shoehorned onto a 4tf gpu at 60 fps. It's not your standard affair either.
 
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Jack Uzi

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This is Neogaf’s designated jester right? Every online community seems to have one.
 

Zathalus

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Here it's down to 512p and stuff can look even lower than that because of the cheap tech (RDNA2 VRS) used.
The VRS used is Tier 1 and not Tier 2, which is significantly better. It is also a software based approach and does not rely on any specific VRS hardware, as it was present on the PS4 version of the game as well. Tier 2 hardware VRS would look significantly better and have better performance to boot. Very few games have Tier 2 VRS implemented at the moment, only Gears 5 and Gears Tactics as far as I know.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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XSS sure makes some of you upset. Who gives a shit the resolution? Not the people who are buying one. It plays all the games still. 300$ is a lot of money to a lot of people and 400$ is not a possible amount of money to spend on video games for a lot of people. If you would rather save another hundred or 2 and get the better consoles, do that and stfu. Let poor people enjoy some fucking new games.
 

vaibhavpisal

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XSS sure makes some of you upset. Who gives a shit the resolution? Not the people who are buying one. It plays all the games still. 300$ is a lot of money to a lot of people and 400$ is not a possible amount of money to spend on video games for a lot of people. If you would rather save another hundred or 2 and get the better consoles, do that and stfu. Let poor people enjoy some fucking new games.

Nope.

Everyone MUST save $1000 for Series X and a 4k display.

Else here is is shotgun.

Shotgun, meet XsS. XsS meet shotgun. Now let’s take a nice walk around the back shall we.
 

scydrex

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Nope.

Everyone MUST save $1000 for Series X and a 4k display.

Else here is is shotgun.

We have performance mode on PS5 and X. The PS5 have performance modes without RT and performance RT too. Like Rachet 1440p RT 60fps or Spiderman 1080p 60fps RT and etc...
 
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OK but this game is doing full global gi with raytracing and more. Its obviously a very demanding game that they've shoehorned onto a 4tf gpu at 60 fps. It's not your standard affair either.
You aren’t wrong, and this is just my opinion but I don’t think the Series S should be pushing for this type of stuff at it’s hardware level. I know the Series S is supposed to be fully next gen but I just don’t think it’s cut out for it.

Maybe having an option to cap at 30 and preserve some of the resolution would be good? or maybe just a 1080/1440 60 option without the RT? I don’t know

XSS sure makes some of you upset. Who gives a shit the resolution? Not the people who are buying one. It plays all the games still. 300$ is a lot of money to a lot of people and 400$ is not a possible amount of money to spend on video games for a lot of people. If you would rather save another hundred or 2 and get the better consoles, do that and stfu. Let poor people enjoy some fucking new games.
I hate this argument. If you are “poor” then you shouldn’t be buying a next gen console in the first place. You should be keeping your old consoles especially right now as there isn’t really any reason to own the new consoles outside of Ratchet and Demon Souls.

Before somebody says it, I don’t hate the Series S. But if you are poor and still buying a new console you are a fucking idiot.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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You aren’t wrong, and this is just my opinion but I don’t think the Series S should be pushing for this type of stuff at it’s hardware level. I know the Series S is supposed to be fully next gen but I just don’t think it’s cut out for it.

Maybe having an option to cap at 30 and preserve some of the resolution would be good? or maybe just a 1080/1440 60 option without the RT? I don’t know


I hate this argument. If you are “poor” then you shouldn’t be buying a next gen console in the first place. You should be keeping your old consoles especially right now as there isn’t really any reason to own the new consoles outside of Ratchet and Demon Souls.

Before somebody says it, I don’t hate the Series S. But if you are poor and still buying a new console you are a fucking idiot.
Haha. I'm happy you feel you get to choose what people spend some money on.
 

thewire

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Series S for multitude of reasons, right when it was rumored, was pushed back from pretty much all quarters on here (Yes, even the Xbox zeitgeist). The idea of building a cutting edge box, only to saddle it with rocks in it's boot, never sounded appealing. Because, it was going to have a cascading effect throughout the consoles life cycle, which will stretch well into cross-gen period of next-gen consoles. Things were in unison, when the box was (supposedly) canned. But, then once again, MS went into "influencers" overdrive. Most drank the kool-aid. "Oh, it's just a budget Series X, it'll run all the games identically, just at a lower resolution". For those, who knew, game dev is never linear, knew there'd be issues. The biggest one, which everyone is ignoring, is RAM. Which was initially rumored to be 12GB, but due to cost, ended up being 10GB, with only 7.5GB being usable. Another issue, is the weird RAM configuration, which means available memory bandwidth is extremely low for a next-gen console. The game is struggling with RT, because well RT among other things, hogs bandwidth like no tomorrow, it's starved of memory, hence the aggressive cutbacks. I see, memory bandwidth being an issue on PS5/Series X as we move towards the last phase of this gen, so never mind, Series S.

Also, this mythical "value" of Series S. Which was the primary reason, even the forum enthusiast thought it'd be a good idea to split the gen with different hardware configurations, as it will allow to reach a "broader" audience. Well, how about the sales then? Save for US, Series S can be easily sourced elsewhere in the world. In a number of countries, it's already at a discount. This is during a global pandemic, where everything gaming related has been flying off the shelves and yet, Series S is failing to breakthrough the wider audience, despite it being so "budget friendly". Xbox Series is lagging behind sales of Xbox One, a console which was marred with controversy right from the launch, not to mention, Xbox One launched in just 13 countries, whereas Xbox Series was much global. So, why is adoption rate of "cheapest next-gen console" so low?

Well, for one thing, the idea of a $299 console, with $15 a month GP sub flying off the shelves sounded like a swell idea. The reality is that, vast majority of gaming in general is F2P games. Yes, even on consoles. Next up, you have folks, who buy 2 or 3 games, of their favorite franchises year on year, such as CoD/FIFA/Ubisoft AAAs. These folks are simply not interested in playing "more games", they are content with what they have, besides, a sub cost is a burden on them, because the selective games, which they do play, aren't available Day 1 on the service. There is a reason, MS have all their eggs in cloud basket when it comes to expanding their market, hardware is a tertiary business for them, till they try to bring that dream to fruition. So, ultimately, this "VFM" box, is failing to reach the target audience which it was aiming for. Whatever utility this console had, at $299, was killed in it's track, when Sony announced a PS5 Digital for $399. For, $100 more, one gets a proper next-gen console, with no half-steps in between. But, "GaMEpASS EqUIvaLEnT???????" Well, see above about buying and playing habits of the masses. As, for one poster who's saying Series S shouldn't be compared to PS5 Digital since latter is a "marketing gimmick". First and foremost, lol. Second, PS5 Digital availability being super rare is working against your entire argument, you realize that? Because, despite lack of availability of a Digital PS5, folks aren't picking up it's alternative, in a "cheaper" all-digital Series S. Once, the production is normalized, it won't suddenly mean, Series S starts selling like hot cakes. If anything, the gap will only widen.

Microsoft, like Sony, should have taken the bath and build an all-digital Series X at $399. They are losing money hand over fist, with acquisitions, hardware, cloud etc. What's few hundred million dollars more to a corporation? But, now this meme machine has to be managed for next 8-9 years. Oh well!



Thanks for asking. I have been enjoying gaming actually, finished a lot of games, trying newer stuff.

Don't post as often on forum anymore, because there's very little worth discussing. Hardware discussion is what drew me to this forum in first place, and it's going pretty much like I expected. Not, a lot to work with on a forum. Opinions aren't going to be swayed, lol.
🔥🔥 couldn’t of said it better myself.
 
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GHG

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Everyone taking a shit on the xss may want to consider how an rtx 2060 compares to the xsx here using similar settings.


What exactly are we supposed to "consider" here?

It's running at settings higher than the Series S version, it's running at a higher internal resolution (4k DLSS perfomance = 1080p), it has no pop in, it's running at a higher framerate (comfortably over 60fps and over 70fps in most cases) and it looks much sharper.

They've had to use aggressive settings that don't exist on the PC version and it drops to a resolution that we have't seen since the 360/PS3 days.

Let me remind you of how discussions about the Series S used to go:




There are also thread's here for those corresponding tweets if you care to look them up, absolute clown show. Yes developers are used to building titles for multiple PC configurations but there is always a cut off at the lower end of the scale where the developers say "nope, we are not going to accommodate for hardware that is lower than this" and then they will base their design philosophies around that. In this instance the Series S is below that cut off point so the compromises that have had to be made are significant.
 
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Dodkrake

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XSS sure makes some of you upset. Who gives a shit the resolution? Not the people who are buying one. It plays all the games still. 300$ is a lot of money to a lot of people and 400$ is not a possible amount of money to spend on video games for a lot of people. If you would rather save another hundred or 2 and get the better consoles, do that and stfu. Let poor people enjoy some fucking new games.

There's a lot of green fans in this forum that are very worried about resolution when the Series X has a 10 or 15% advantage over the PS5. But now that we have a "Next Gen" console yielding 512p it's suddenly ok.

I called this multiple times, people get fixated in resolution and it usually bites them in the ass. Resolution < Fidelity (which Metro also doesn't have, mind you).
 

thatJohann

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Soooo I don't know if this video is legit. Apparently it's from the PS5 enhanced version.

So remember XSX with the 44 second load times, this video shows PS5 loading in 3 seconds. WHAT.


Look at around 51:14. Link above is time stamped.
 
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M1chl

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Soooo I don't know if this video is legit. Apparently it's from the PS5 enhanced version.

So remember XSX with the 44 second load times, this video shows PS5 loading in 3 seconds. WHAT.


Look at around 51:14. Link above is time stamped.
Loading after death is much faster than to the new map. It was like that from release.
 
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elliot5

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Soooo I don't know if this video is legit. Apparently it's from the PS5 enhanced version.

So remember XSX with the 44 second load times, this video shows PS5 loading in 3 seconds. WHAT.


Look at around 51:14. Link above is time stamped.
isn't that just reloading checkpoint not loading the entire game?
 

thatJohann

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Loading after death is much faster than to the new map. It was like that from release.

when does the loading happen on start up? I'm seeing this other video from PS5 and I don't see any loading at all from hitting New Game to gameplay. Is it loading in the background of the cutscene?

 
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M1chl

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when does the loading happen on sgtart up? I'm seeing this other video from PS5 and I don't see any loading at all from hitting New Game to gameplay. Is it loading in the background of the cutscene?

I don't remember it fully, how it's from the beginning, I guess we learn soon enough : )
 

thatJohann

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Whoops! Sorry, here's a whole level loading on PS5. Didn't know quick load was shorter.

Looks around 30 seconds or so. Look at 25:31 time stamp:

 
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DenchDeckard

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You aren’t wrong, and this is just my opinion but I don’t think the Series S should be pushing for this type of stuff at it’s hardware level. I know the Series S is supposed to be fully next gen but I just don’t think it’s cut out for it.

Maybe having an option to cap at 30 and preserve some of the resolution would be good? or maybe just a 1080/1440 60 option without the RT? I don’t know


I hate this argument. If you are “poor” then you shouldn’t be buying a next gen console in the first place. You should be keeping your old consoles especially right now as there isn’t really any reason to own the new consoles outside of Ratchet and Demon Souls.

Before somebody says it, I don’t hate the Series S. But if you are poor and still buying a new console you are a fucking idiot.

Completely agree with you on the response to my post. I don't think the Series S is cut out for this kind of stuff and would be better tailored to something around your suggestion. either RT at 30 FPS and a higher res, or drop the RT support but keep the smoother 60 FPS. THat's easy for me to say, and probs takes a lot more dev work but yeah ultimately the Series S is not going to cut it with full raytracing etc.
 

FlyyGOD

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You aren’t wrong, and this is just my opinion but I don’t think the Series S should be pushing for this type of stuff at it’s hardware level. I know the Series S is supposed to be fully next gen but I just don’t think it’s cut out for it.

Maybe having an option to cap at 30 and preserve some of the resolution would be good? or maybe just a 1080/1440 60 option without the RT? I don’t know


I hate this argument. If you are “poor” then you shouldn’t be buying a next gen console in the first place. You should be keeping your old consoles especially right now as there isn’t really any reason to own the new consoles outside of Ratchet and Demon Souls.

Before somebody says it, I don’t hate the Series S. But if you are poor and still buying a new console you are a fucking idiot.
Why would anyone buy an old console at the end of its lifespan? You think a 10 year old or causal gamer cares about resolution? They only care about can they play the new version of games.
 
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DarkMage619

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No. People are curious to see how well the Xbox Series S is going to hold up 3-4 years into the generation.

People seem to be very critical of how the PS5 was designed, but the same people who are critical of the PS5 don't like it when anyone outside of the Xbox fanbase talks about an Xbox console - in this case, the Xbox Series S.
There is a big difference between 'talking' about a console and making up crap to trash talk. First off how does the XSS impact your love for the PS5? When you talk about how the XSS will hold up are you taking into consideration the fact that it has the same feature set as the XSX? I'm sure you also realize none of those current generation features are being used on cross generational and backwards compatible games. Do you know that all Xbox games hit PC so on that front the XSS isn't even the lowest spec device? Can you name a device that is running this game better that costs the same or less?

You and many others are simply trash talking. There is nothing thoughtful or sincere about your points and as you stated earlier you see it as payback for anyone who made any perceived negative comments about the PS5. Interestingly enough this thread isn't even about the PS5 but here you are defending it. I get it but I also see it for what it is.
 

Riky

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:messenger_tears_of_joy: Wow.

The NeoGaf jester delivers yet again.
Says the guy who clearly can't read.
This game doesn't use SFS or Mesh Shaders, no games released so far do.
We will see what sort of performance gains we get when that happens.
If we get the same framerates at lower resolutions then I'll say I was pretty accurate.
 

Epic Sax CEO

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Because the way RT works on RDNA2 it just wont be viable for a small GPU.
It's not about if the GPU can do RT, it's about if the GPU can do RT at an acceptable speed. This is impossible on a small RDNA2 GPU like the one on the Virgin.
Future games that rely heavy on RT will be "impracticable" on the Virgin except with much reduced details and resolution.
I wonder if this will have the effect of increased development time and cost for developers that will need to put extra work on traditional lighting and effects to ship their game on the Virgin.
 

dcmk7

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Says the guy who clearly can't read.
This game doesn't use SFS or Mesh Shaders, no games released so far do.
We will see what sort of performance gains we get when that happens.
If we get the same framerates at lower resolutions then I'll say I was pretty accurate.

You're too funny, you actually think your prediction might pull through? Wow.

Let's bookmark that, and see how your prediction is looking in November.
 
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Leyasu

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Apr 25, 2014
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Fuck the XsS. I wouldn't even buy one for my kids. As it stands today, it has mistake wrote all over it.

I would though for an Ark dedicated server (Only if it was dirt cheap) so my boy can play with his friends without being wiped all the time. He won't listen when I tell him to avoid PvP......

Anyway, all the people that were mightily "concerned" that rt was missing on a game not two days ago (was it doom?) are now also "concerned" by the lackluster performance. GTFO I have never seen so many trolls in one place.
 

scydrex

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Says the guy who clearly can't read.
This game doesn't use SFS or Mesh Shaders, no games released so far do.
We will see what sort of performance gains we get when that happens.
If we get the same framerates at lower resolutions then I'll say I was pretty accurate.

And? Is the PS5 missing those features or equivalent? Will Sony leave that out and not create a custom solution on their own? After all the talking with devs and have a custom IO/SSD and telling that they wanted to create a console that is easier to work for the devs and implement features the devs wanted. You are talking like the PS5 wont have that sort of performance gains or is missing those features. So the Xbox Series will have performance gains but the PS5 no... If that is what you came up with trying to defend what you said about the S pushing hard the PS5 well... try again or think of something else.
 
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vaibhavpisal

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What exactly are we supposed to "consider" here?

It's running at settings higher than the Series S version, it's running at a higher internal resolution (4k DLSS perfomance = 1080p), it has no pop in, it's running at a higher framerate (comfortably over 60fps and over 70fps in most cases) and it looks much sharper.

They've had to use aggressive settings that don't exist on the PC version and it drops to a resolution that we have't seen since the 360/PS3 days.

Let me remind you of how discussions about the Series S used to go:




There are also thread's here for those corresponding tweets if you care to look them up, absolute clown show. Yes developers are used to building titles for multiple PC configurations but there is always a cut off at the lower end of the scale where the developers say "nope, we are not going to accommodate for hardware that is lower than this" and then they will base their design philosophies around that. In this instance the Series S is below that cut off point so the compromises that have had to be made are significant.

I still don't see how those two tweets are factually incorrect.

This is one of those games where Series s holds X back. Don't see how that has happened.

In fact series s version is eminently playable. Has good iq when considered on its own.
 

Riky

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And? Is the PS5 missing those features or equivalent? Will Sony leave that out and not create a custom solution on their own? After all the talking with devs and have a custom IO/SSD and telling that they wanted to create a console that is easier to work for the devs and implement features the devs wanted. You are talking like the PS5 wont have that sort of performance gains or is missing those features. So the Xbox Series will have performance gains but the PS5 no... If that is what you came up with trying to defend what you said about the S pushing hard the PS5 well... try again or think of something else.

I also used the word "could" not will, reading what is said is important.
I don't know what custom hardware PS5 has as Sony seem reluctant to talk about it. The Devs for this very game say they are using a last gen software version of VRS as it lacks the hardware support for this feature.
I qualified my statement by saying at a lower resolution in that thread, we can revisit this when games appear that use all the RDNA2 performance saving features that are supported in hardware by Series S.
If that then makes no difference to Series S performance then I'll take it on the chin and admit I was wrong.
Time will tell.
 

Shrap

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This doesn't change the fact that the Series S is still a great little budget console.

If you disabled the RT I'm sure it would get rid of these minor hiccups, but still for the Series S to be running a game that looks as good as Metro at 60fps with RT/GI whilst maintaining a respectable enough final resolution (the upscaled 1080p that we're left with from the 512p it starts from) I'd say that's quite impressive.

I will want the best possible experience so I will play this on my PS5 or XSX but I am more impressed with the Series S with each day that passes.
512p minimum with an average resolution below 900p is woeful and not impressive at all. Especially when it's only $100 cheaper than a PS5 digital. The performance difference is huge.

The Series X is excellent. The Series S is an abomination.
 

scydrex

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I also used the word "could" not will, reading what is said is important.
I don't know what custom hardware PS5 has as Sony seem reluctant to talk about it. The Devs for this very game say they are using a last gen software version of VRS as it lacks the hardware support for this feature.
I qualified my statement by saying at a lower resolution in that thread, we can revisit this when games appear that use all the RDNA2 performance saving features that are supported in hardware by Series S.
If that then makes no difference to Series S performance then I'll take it on the chin and admit I was wrong.
Time will tell.
I read twice what you said and that is what i understood. That the Xbox Series will have performance gains because those features that are not implemented. If the Xbox have performance gains so could the PS5 because both launched recently.
 
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Why would anyone buy an old console at the end of its lifespan? You think a 10 year old or causal gamer cares about resolution? They only care about can they play the new version of games.
1. I didn’t mention anything about buying old consoles and 2. I think people mix up blind with casual. You think just because somebody is casual and just plays Warzone and Rocket League that they won’t be able to tell? Okay. Sure Jan. There are reasons for “casual gamers” (barf) to buy a Series S and reasons for non casuals as well but to act like they won’t even be able to tell their console outputs a shit image on their tv is daft.