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DF: Little Nightmares 2 PS5 vs Xbox Series X/S Enhanced Edition - 60FPS! Ray Tracing! Enhanced Features!

JackMcGunns

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These topics and memes are funny for those who take it for what it is, a joke and poking fun at the situation, but don’t be surprised if a few warriors actually believe RT was left out on purpose on SX because framerate was tanking. Lol
 

Genx3

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PS5 running at slightly lower resolutions isn't 'that' usual, this isn't the 'norm'.. There is as much if not more games running at same resolutions and even some having higher resolutions on PS5. And RT can easily cost ~20-30% resolution, RT is resource heavy.
Most games run at lower resolutions on PS5.
Some games have both higher frame rate and higher resolution on XSX.
Not that it matters. Play it on the console you own.
If you own both you get the better version.
There is no reason other than laziness for the game not to have RT on Xbox as it''s been documented to perform better than PS5 when using RT.
 
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Shmunter

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BS anything under 4K is noticeable.
Stop the nonsense.
4K is crystal clear and practically jaggiless.
The game for some odd reason runs under 4K.
Game is far from impressive graphically so I'm not sure why.
Couple of things to take into consideration.

4k vs a smaller but also high number is not super noticeable - there needs to be a meaningfully large enough delta for it to be noticeable.

This is further diminished on modern games with layers upon layers of filmic post processing, the quality of the effects becomes more noticeable than the underlying rez which is lost under all this. Basic games with clear polygonal edges are much more susceptible to rez, but that’s not where we are at in modern gaming.

And in this instance the game is using ue4 that does an admirable job of temporal aa, cleaning up the image beyond its native rez further diminishing any differences.
 
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DarkMage619

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Not only that there is an additional abstraction layer on Xbox so that future Xbox consoles can run the games properly in BC mode with enhancements while PS games are programmed closer to the metal as they say.
This abstraction layer is both a blessing and a curse.
It's a blessing because future consoles will run these games looking even better with significant improvements and a curse because current consoles won't run the game at 100% of it's full capability.
Excellent point. In the grand scheme of things MS' philosophy seems to be more forward thinking. It sacrifices some performance but is far more flexible. Won't do much to allow bragging rights on console forums though.
 
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I'm pretty sure that Little Nightmares 2 uses Unreal Engine 4, if it does then once it's in the game it's simple a matter of essentially flicking a switch to choose between the two.
What's known as the abstraction layer on the Xbox systems is simply that it runs all backward compatible software inside virtual machines, you wouldn't do the same for Series S/X software unless, well, you wouldn't because there's nothing about that which makes sense and it wouldn't in any way affect backwards comparability for future systems.
Backwards compatibility is handled differently on the PS5 as both the PS4 and PS4 instruction sets are built into the APU by default, they are there as part of the standard hardware.
 
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Can I just say this… the graphics in this game are breathtaking. Some of the best I’ve seen. Everything just looks soooooo good. I didn’t see a single area in the game where the attention to detail and lighting weren’t superb. Ray traced reflections were just the icing on the cake. I could see the reflection of the character in the TV glass. Crazy man. Great game too (although some parts are a pure pain in the ass to beat).

Just finished it. What a ride.
 

Hoddi

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Couple of things to take into consideration.

4k vs a smaller but also high number is not super noticeable - there needs to be a meaningfully large enough delta for it to be noticeable.

This is further diminished on modern games with layers upon layers of filmic post processing, the quality of the effects becomes more noticeable than the underlying rez which is lost under all this. Basic games with clear polygonal edges are much more susceptible to rez, but that’s not where we are at in modern gaming.

And in this instance the game is using ue4 that does an admirable job of temporal aa, cleaning up the image beyond its native rez further diminishing any differences.
This is pretty much it. I still swear by running games at the native display resolution but if neither of these systems are running at native 4k then it basically doesn't matter if one is at 1440p and the other at 1800p.

People made fun of Microsoft when they said that the 'quality of the pixels' was more important than the actual rendering resolution. The XO was still pretty shit but they were completely on point with that remark.
 
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Shmunter

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Reminder that DF said in the video that they waited to make this comparison because of the SeX botched reflections and the developers told them that it's working as intended.
Will we really see a rematch?
Is that right??

Must be a case of slapping out an XsS target and just letting the X do nothing but up rez it. This was always going to lead to tension in design, but this is really taking the piss.
 
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Epic Sax CEO

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Is that right??

That's why I commented, it's like people are discussing without having watched the video.
9:50 dev says that RT is enabled and 13:50 DF says that they explained their findings and waited before making this video in case that was a mistake that would be corrected, but until now, nothing. Apparently devs are satisfied with how it's working on the boxes, maybe with negative repercussion they may go back and rework it because if the RT is there is being totally covered by the SSR (but many scenes point to the RT not being there).
 
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Shakka43

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Anyone else tried the Enhanced Edition on steam? There is constant stuttering for me now like every 5 seconds.
 

Heisenberg007

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What if the PS5 is the base platform for development because of their higher installed base? By default every PS5 version of 3rd party games will run well seeing how that was the system it was developed for with Xbox platforms getting a port.
Not necessarily. It's not like developers would cap the Xbox version. In fact, with DRS, more room for framerates (up to 60, instead of just 30), and ray-tracing, XSX would have more opportunities to show its power difference -- if there were a big power difference b/w the two consoles.
This was true last generation as well. Several developers sung the praises of development on the PS5 before it even came out. The power of the Xbox would be meaningless and would hardly be something to celebrate if the PS5 and XSX had parity. There was never a massive delta between current generation consoles and using this title to declare a PlayStation engineering victory is a little strange.
Not true. With PS4/Xbox One, PS4 had the power advantage because it was more powerful, and it showed. Then came Pro and One X. Despite games being primarily developed for PS4/Pro, One X consistently showed its power advantage, because it was indeed more powerful.

If games being developed for PS hampered the Xbox version, how come One X showed its power advantage so consistently?

The reason that we don't see differences b/w PS5 and XSX isn't because games are primarily developed for PS. It's because these two consoles are extremely similar and there is no noticeable power difference, as we have seen in over dozens of game comparison videos by now.
 

RoadHazard

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This isn't really the thread for this I guess, but for people who have played the game, how good is it? I thought the original was pretty decent, but far inferior to Inside (which was a natural comparison at the time).
 

Negotiator101

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It's more realistic, not blurry. Not every surface has sharp and glossy reflections like a mirror, it depends upon the material. RT reflections on PS5 are proper reflections. The tile floor looks diffused like how it would look in real life under such lighting conditions.
That's a tiled floor though, you'd get a clearer reflection than what you're seeing on PS5.

In fact I'd say the PS5 version looks much worse than the Xbox in this comparison. Goes to show Raytraced reflections are not always better.
 
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Negotiator101

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I'm pretty sure that Little Nightmares 2 uses Unreal Engine 4, if it does then once it's in the game it's simple a matter of essentially flicking a switch to choose between the two.
What's known as the abstraction layer on the Xbox systems is simply that it runs all backward compatible software inside virtual machines, you wouldn't do the same for Series S/X software unless, well, you wouldn't because there's nothing about that which makes sense and it wouldn't in any way affect backwards comparability for future systems.
Backwards compatibility is handled differently on the PS5 as both the PS4 and PS4 instruction sets are built into the APU by default, they are there as part of the standard hardware.
Flicking a switch huh? 😂 I bet all game developer's would tell you different. As far as Raytracing not in the X version is obviously an oversight.
 
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Heisenberg007

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That's a tiled floor though, you'd get a clearer reflection than what you're seeing on PS5.

In fact I'd say the PS5 version looks much worse than the Xbox in this comparison. Goes to show Raytraced reflections are not always better.
No, Raytracing is better than SSR, even in this game.

1. SSR fades in and outs naturally. Raytracing doesn't.
2. Raytracing doesn't obscure character reflections. SSR does.
3. SSR reflections don't start from the right reference point. Raytracing does.
4. Tiles reflections in real life are more diffused, just as they are on the PS5 version.
 

Rubberwald

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This is pretty much it. I still swear by running games at the native display resolution but if neither of these systems are running at native 4k then it basically doesn't matter if one is at 1440p and the other at 1800p.

People made fun of Microsoft when they said that the 'quality of the pixels' was more important than the actual rendering resolution. The XO was still pretty shit but they were completely on point with that remark.
Depends on the game and quality of AA. For example, I switched from performance mode to quality mode in Yakuza: Like a Dragon, despite getting a lower frame-rate, because the difference between 1440p and 4K (I guess?) was huge and substantially more pleasant to look at. And the there are cases with DRS where I don’t really see a difference between 4K and 1800p.
 

Md Ray

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That's a tiled floor though, you'd get a clearer reflection than what you're seeing on PS5.
Not every tile has glossy properties though. The tile asset they've used here looks to be of a matte finish so the reflections will naturally look diffused as they should when combined with realistic RT reflections on them.

Here's a real-life image showing diffused, soft reflections on matte finished tiles.



 
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Negotiator101

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Not every tile has glossy properties though. The tile asset they've used here looks to be of a matte finish so the reflections will naturally look diffused as they should when combined with realistic RT reflections on them.

Here's a real-life image showing diffused, soft reflections on matte finished tiles.



Quite true, I myself have a glossy finished floor and it is much clearer than the PS5 version. If it's a matte finish floor then disregard. Still in this comparison Xbox looks better.
 

Negotiator101

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It's exactly what I said it is and what I said it is doesn't appear to be what you're reading.
I perfectly understand, if the developer has coded the game to have Raytracing in UE4 they can turn it on or off like a light switch, correct? This is obviously not what's happening here, otherwise as you put it they would just flick the switch.
 
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Well it would be more accurate to say selecting a tick box in this case.
Any yet, I've not suggested somebody has chosen not to select that tick box. It appears to be a simple thing for developers to unfortunately miss it something as Digital Foundry have pointed out more than once this generation. The last with one of Ubisoft's Tom Clancy PS4 games when it received a current generation upgrade.
I can't imagine that it was intentional then either but not activating certain graphical features that are present in a game is certainly not unheard of.
 
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Dr.D00p

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Anyone else tried the Enhanced Edition on steam? There is constant stuttering for me now like every 5 seconds.

I get the same on my PC (9900K & RTX 3080)

It's Unreal Engines hot garbage asset streaming...as always.

My heart sinks whenever 'powered by Unreal' pops up on a loading screen because I know what's to come.

It's why Epic were so hard for PS5's SSD tech, so as to be able to brute force their way past the engine's problems with streaming in new assets and the hitching it causes.
 
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assurdum

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You don't understand how a game that has SSR and RT could have a bug that stops the RT from turning on? Really?


The funniest part of this post is that you think Alex gives 2 shits about consoles, let alone has some sort of grudge against the playstation. He's a PC guy through and through.
You know SSR and raytracing are two totally different things? No way a bug misinterpreted raytracing with SSR. The only explanation maybe series X uses the series S setting but it's not a "bug", more like an DK issue or a mistake by the developers.
 
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assurdum

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Quite true, I myself have a glossy finished floor and it is much clearer than the PS5 version. If it's a matte finish floor then disregard. Still in this comparison Xbox looks better.
You know surface have different property of reflections? SSR it's "better" because it's applied in a wrong way in this case. raytracing give a more natural and realistic/precise appearance to the reflections probably because it takes in the counts also the material with the reflections (I guess). Not all reflections are like a mirror.
 
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Schmick

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Anyone else getting sick of people jacking themselves off over 2 extra frames in a 5 hour period, or 30 extra pixels? Sorry to pick this random thread to gripe, but these keep coming up and the results are really similar each time. If there is a significant difference it's usually a bug that will get patched later. Also the backwards compatibility comparisons... Sigh... Can't wait until covid dies down so we have something worthwhile to discuss.

Yes! It's always the same people as well from either side. Yet here I am reading this thread!

Blues are taking the win whenever it's a tie because Greens got super excited about the extra TF when the specs for the new consoles were first announced over a year ago! I honestly cannot fathom why people pick sides! We are all gamers are we not? We must be because why would we be registered with a Gaming Forum yet the hate and delusion I see sometimes is embarrassing.

I really like the thread where people got to showcase their game collection you could see a large group who appreciates games no matter what platform they are on.

How is PS4.5's RDNA1 part using ray tracing while XSX full RDNA 2 chiplet is not. Can someone explain this?

Because the PS4.5 RDNA1 is so much more powerful, like, beast like more powerful, than the XSX full RDNA2. That's what you were thinking right?
 
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Arioco

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I get the same on my PC (9900K & RTX 3080)

It's Unreal Engines hot garbage asset streaming...as always.

My heart sinks whenever 'powered by Unreal' pops up on a loading screen because I know what's to come.

It's why Epic were so hard for PS5's SSD tech, so as to be able to brute force their way past the engine's problems with streaming in new assets and the hitching it causes.


I really like UE, it has some really cool features, but what you're saying is true. I remember DF asked Returnal devs about the small hitches the game suffers here and there and they answered "Well... That's just Unreal being Unreal". LOL I guess it's something we'll have to put up with, at least until Unreal Engine 5 arrives.

Anyways I'm happy Unreal exists. Many small studios can't afford their own engine and it'd be almost impossible for them to create their games if they couldn't use Unreal or Unity, so I think It's a good thing even if the results are not always ideal.
 

Heisenberg007

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Quite true, I myself have a glossy finished floor and it is much clearer than the PS5 version. If it's a matte finish floor then disregard. Still in this comparison Xbox looks better.
In that case, if SSR > Ray tracing, AMD and Nvidia should just pack it up and call it a day. Save millions of dollars in R&D and hardware tech to promote real-time ray-tracing. Why even bother with the tech if SSR looks better than RT?
 

Bernd Lauert

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In that case, if SSR > Ray tracing, AMD and Nvidia should just pack it up and call it a day. Save millions of dollars in R&D and hardware tech to promote real-time ray-tracing. Why even bother with the tech if SSR looks better than RT?
You guys are arguing over subjective opinions. RT always looks more realistic. RT doesn't always look "better", depending on your preferences and the given art style.
 

Dodkrake

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Quite true, I myself have a glossy finished floor and it is much clearer than the PS5 version. If it's a matte finish floor then disregard. Still in this comparison Xbox looks better.

Xbox game has something the PS5 version lacks - Xbox is better, VRR, VRS, Velocity architecture, the PS5 is worse than the gameboy color.
Xbox game doesn't have something the PS5 version has - Xbox is still better because SSR > Ray-tracing (in my own little world where Xbox is always supreme).
 

BigLee74

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That's a tiled floor though, you'd get a clearer reflection than what you're seeing on PS5.

In fact I'd say the PS5 version looks much worse than the Xbox in this comparison. Goes to show Raytraced reflections are not always better.

Nah, you’re wrong. Ray tracing is always better, and will show what was intended to be shown, taking into account material properties.

In this example, the tiles are obviously meant to be more matte than glossy, and the PS5 representation is therefore the correct one. Whether or not you prefer the look of mirror like reflections is irrelevant.

Ive not watched the video (guilty), but I don’t think the exclusion of RT on the XSX/XSS is an error. They’ve likely just not done it yet.
 
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Rubberwald

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Nah, you’re wrong. Ray tracing is always better, and will show what was intended to be shown, taking into account material properties.

In this example, the tiles are obviously meant to be more matte than glossy, and the PS5 representation is therefore the correct one. Whether or not you prefer the look of mirror like reflections is irrelevant.

Ive not watched the video (guilty), but I don’t think the exclusion of RT on the XSX/XSS is an error. They’ve likely just not done it yet.
Yup, RT is always better and I’m pretty sure you can appreciate it when watching/playing that scene in motion. That said, I also prefer the sharper reflections in that particular screenshot. It reminds me of my cinematographer friend who often orders to splash water on ground surfaces to have visible reflections In the shot. It might not be always realistic, but visually it looks more pleasing to the eye.
 

MrFunSocks

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You know SSR and raytracing are two totally different things? No way a bug misinterpreted raytracing with SSR. The only explanation maybe series X uses the series S setting but it's not a "bug", more like an DK issue or a mistake by the developers.
Lol jesus christ. I know you're a team blue die-hard but come on.

A game can have SSR, with RT as an option. Turn on RT and it replaces some of the SSR. Turn it off and it's all just SSR. Games can have a combination of both too, it's not just one or the other. You know how games have RT modes and modes without RT? It's essentially a setting switch to turn the RT reflections on and off depending on what mode you chose. On? RT. Off? SSR. Bug that causes RT to not turn on when you flick the switch? SSR.

A bug is unintended behaviour. Adding ray tracing, saying you've added ray tracing, but then having no ray tracing, is a sign of a bug.

Also interesting that some people think that all tiles and all surfaces reflect the same. Most matte tiles don't really show reflections. In that comparison pic people are posting and quoting they both look bad because they shouldn't be reflecting the wall in front of them like that. The PS5 version looks like it's got shadows from parts of the wall, which is wrong, and the xbox looks like they're glossy mirror like tiles.
 
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ethomaz

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I was just reading the game upgrade announced in both sides... Xbox and PS5... both made by Coralie Feniello.

Only PS5 announcement specifically lists Ray-tracing reflections.
Xbox says ray-tracking but nothing about reflections.

You can read yourself here:


 

Zathalus

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I was just reading the game upgrade announced in both sides... Xbox and PS5... both made by Coralie Feniello.

Only PS5 announcement specifically lists Ray-tracing reflections.
Xbox says ray-tracking but nothing about reflections.

You can read yourself here:




Mentioned for both.
 
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kingpotato

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Checkerboard rendering.

It is checkboard… the final output is 4k without black bars.

1920 x2 = 3840

Basically

1920x1080 x2 = 3840x2160
1280x720 x3 = 3840x2160

Lol ... Guys... Did you look at the chart? The numbers for Witcher 3 are reversed/typoed. It implies the game runs vertically oriented.

I almost forgot how big the resolution differences can be.



Not to mention having 4GBs more ram really helped the One X take the lead.
 

ethomaz

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Lol ... Guys... Did you look at the chart? The numbers for Witcher 3 are reversed/typoed. It implies the game runs vertically oriented.
They are not reversed… they are a normal checkboard resolution.

2160p CB = 1920x2160 render resolution.
1080p CB = 940x1080 render resolution.

The CheckBoard tech create the other half of the pixels outputting a full image.

“We can confirm our first report in terms of basic image quality - what you get on PS4 Pro is 2160p image, achieved through checkerboard rendering. Technically, the console is rendering out half the number of pixels compared to a true 4K image - essentially 1920x2160. Horizontal resolution is cut, and the result is a little blurrier than you might expect from the real deal. However, PS4 Pro's checkerboard technique attempts to mitigate the quality loss using pixel information from the previous frame - and in a still screenshot, it creates a respectable illusion of a full 3840x2160.”

 
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