• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

News DF: NBA 2K21 PS5 v Xbox Series X|S

Bogroll

Likes moldy games
Jan 25, 2018
1,830
1,654
555
England
You and I know very well that the mere fact they're identical is always a win for Sony, since the PS5 was always deemed the weaker console with less power and CPU and RAM speed. Let alone PS5 having the upper hand by a frame or 2.

We all should be expecting SX beating PS5 every time by a good margin, which isn't happening.
This is despite numerous threads/people (sony fans and some xbox fans) saying they won't be far because its only 15% difference and Ps5 has faster this and faster that. Which is fair enough.
So if they are equal or if SX has a slight lead in the future people are always going to play your card which in all honesty is a bit pathetic because other than mad fanboys, most on here thought it would be a slight rez lead on SX which may or may not emerge in the future. And that line you use is just a way of consoling themselves if SX improves more than Ps5.
If one was way more expensive than the other fair enough and yeah people say the PS5 DE but MS could released or may release a digital SX in the future. Its not like they have never done it before.
 
Last edited:

bender

Bending Rodríguez (22, 1,729)
Apr 12, 2010
9,325
13,744
1,420
Really, do you have link to proof? Or did you just make that up?

 

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
14,605
69,976
965
35
Salalah, Oman
Rolling my eyes at the immature chest beating, but I have to say it’s pretty remarkable how consistently the PS5 has emerged in the lead at this early stage.

I bought into what I honestly thought would be the weaker system, just as an extra for exclusives, and somehow ended up with the actual beast. I really have to credit Mark Cerny and his staff for a very intelligent, unconventional design that accomplishes more with less, to the point where it’s simultaneously the cheapest and best performing next-gen system.

That said, the differences are typically minuscule. Series X owners shouldn’t be disheartened over anything but the expectations of blowing out the competition not happening, and that’s not the biggest deal in the end. It’s a gorgeous game on both.

Props to 2K too, for doing right by the players with a true next-gen game. I get the feeling that the limited scope of an NBA game may help? You can certainly see that the non-court parts are a big step back. But nonetheless.

Nah, you've seen it all, no need to act surprised. The banter over xbox fans for the extremely aggressive FUD campaign against PS5, calling PS5 a 9TF console, weak console, and xbox gonna crush PS5 by 40-50fps.

We asked for parity, and instead Sony provided a devastating dominance in all multiplats. With Xbox you left with nothing to justify your buy except having your friends there. So expect laughs and banter on every face-off after the sleazy campaign of Phil Spencer, Aaron Greenberg and their goons.

Karma is a bitch, as they say.




 
Last edited:

Lysandros

Member
Jul 28, 2020
840
3,121
350
They not. These launch games are not using features set of these consoles. But PS5 dev kits were available to devs last year and SX around July/August based on reports from various reliable insiders and Phill also confirmed it that they were behind in production.
So devs are more familiar with PS5 dev kits and i guess its also easier to use than new GDK of Xbox which has multiple console profiles.


But average consumer will not care about all of this and they will think SX not what they thought and specs are lie. Its upto MS to fix it by next year by working with devs and showing some stunning looking first party games like Hellblade 2.


PS3 was more powerful than 360 and still 360 was outperforming it but ultimately games started to look identical and Sony also showcased the power of PS3 with their first party games. MS must do same and they have studios to do it and end this narrative.
What component is so CELL like (exotic, hard to program, with big potential) in XSX?..
 
Dec 29, 2018
4,069
11,921
745
There you go.

"GPU related drops" on XSX.

This is why someone said: "It's dangerous to rely on TFLOPS as an absolute indicator of GPU performance"



Another day, another test where PS5 comes out on top.
There were developers saying this looong before these games or consoles even launched but the armchair devs on this forum and Twitter never listened.

Just enjoying the mass Xbox fan exodus after the last spate of performance reviews rubbishing these 'worlds most powerful console' claims.

It's glorious
 

Armorian

Member
Jan 17, 2018
2,551
3,761
475
Has anyone actually verified the xsx can do 12 TF ?

Why not? Thing is it may not be that beneficial for games, cumpute power is not the only thing games use.

Take for example 3080 - 3090:

3090 has EVERYTHING better/more than 3080 with ~20% teraflop advantage, yet in games it's slighty above ~10% IIRC

XSX has ~18% advantage in compute power BUT some parts of the GPU are performing slower thanks to lower clocks than on PS5. And as you can see games are running slighty faster on PS5...

Plus there are things like split RAM, I doubt it causes much trouble right now in cross gen period but in the future? Who knows... I think PS5 will win most of these comparisons and tools won't improve much if at all.
 

Heisenberg007

Member
Nov 16, 2020
1,486
4,534
355
They not. These launch games are not using features set of these consoles. But PS5 dev kits were available to devs last year and SX around July/August based on reports from various reliable insiders and Phill also confirmed it that they were behind in production.
So devs are more familiar with PS5 dev kits and i guess its also easier to use than new GDK of Xbox which has multiple console profiles.


But average consumer will not care about all of this and they will think SX not what they thought and specs are lie. Its upto MS to fix it by next year by working with devs and showing some stunning looking first party games like Hellblade 2.


PS3 was more powerful than 360 and still 360 was outperforming it but ultimately games started to look identical and Sony also showcased the power of PS3 with their first party games. MS must do same and they have studios to do it and end this narrative.

It's just a false narrative for damage control, nothing more. Let's look at the facts here:
  • Before the first comparison, NO ONE even mentioned dev kits and APIs and GDK problems. Not even a single person or influencer. Not even MS.
  • Phil Spencer tweeted that he took home Series X and it's now his primary console. That was in Nov. 2019. So the devs must have dev kits before Nov. 2019.
  • GDK is not the problem. Dirt 5 developer confirmed that MS brought most of the features to GDK from XDK.
  • GDK also was available to developers as early as December 2019, according to documentation.
  • Directx 12 isn't the problem. Xbox has been using DX12 since 2015 now.
  • Waiting for RDNA2 features is a bogus claim. Sony took RDNA2 and customized it. MS took an off-the-shelf RDNA2 GPU. If any one was slowed down, it would've been Sony because of additional customizations and new tech like Boost Clocks and Smart Shift that XSX is missing.
  • "Developers are unfamiliar with RDNA2" is also a false claim. The exact same games are working 100% fine on AMD PC GPUs that also use RDNA2.
The only problem is that GDK doesn't allow low-level optimization, and this cannot be remedied because of MS's unification policy across Xbox and PC. This will continue to be a problem for developers.
 
Last edited:

Agnostic2020

Member
Oct 24, 2017
4,672
19,827
805
It's just a false narrative for damage control, nothing more. Let's look at the facts here:
  • Before the first comparison, NO ONE even mentioned dev kits and APIs and GDK problems. Not even a single person or influencer. Not even MS.
  • Phil Spencer tweeted that he took home Series X and it's now his primary console. That was in Nov. 2019. So the devs must have dev kits before Nov. 2019.
  • GDK is not the problem. Dirt 5 developer confirmed that MS brought most of the features to GDK from XDK.
  • GDK also was available to developers as early as December 2019, according to documentation.
  • Directx 12 isn't the problem. Xbox has been using DX12 since 2015 now.
  • Waiting for RDNA2 features is a bogus claim. Sony took RDNA2 and customized it. MS took an off-the-shelf RDNA2 GPU. If any one was slowed down, it would've been Sony because of additional customizations and new tech like Boost Clocks and Smart Shift that XSX is missing.
  • "Developers are unfamiliar with RDNA2" is also a false claim. The exact same games are working 100% fine on AMD PC GPUs that also use RDNA2.
The only problem is that GDK doesn't allow low-level optimization, and this cannot be remedied because of MS's unification policy across Xbox and PC. This will continue to be a problem for developers.
Pretty much. People talk like xsx is cell processor in ps3 😅. Ps5 and xsx are both x86 architecture with zen cpu and rdna gpu made by same company .
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Mar 31, 2011
5,545
2,781
1,090
It's by an edge, but PS5 looks to perform better here too. I understand the VRR argument, but these comparisons are to find out which console is producing the best results, not which is better to play due to outside factors.

Unbanned?
Thank the moons.
Hold it together but keep up the tribes work yeah......always hilarious to read.

Im genuinely curious if you actually play any games or just find ways to praise Playstation without actually playing the games.
Kinda like a Simp hoping for pussy but deep down knowing its never going to happen.
 

BlueXImpulse

Member
Jul 10, 2020
2,540
14,984
540
Unbanned?
Thank the moons.
Hold it together but keep up the tribes work yeah......always hilarious to read.

Im genuinely curious if you actually play any games or just find ways to praise Playstation without actually playing the games.
Kinda like a Simp hoping for pussy but deep down knowing its never going to happen.

I hope everything is all right at home.

PS5 has the edge here, it’s a fact.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Mar 31, 2011
5,545
2,781
1,090
I hope everything is all right at home.

PS5 has the edge here, it’s a fact.

No one is disputing that my friend.
It was shown empirically that the X/S drop frames in the parametric camera.
I dont think anyone is denying that.
 
  • Triggered
Reactions: thismeinteil

J_Gamer.exe

Member
May 4, 2020
755
3,667
405
I predicted long ago in the next gen thread there would be meltdowns once the power narrative was revealed to be well over played.

It was clear they would be close.

Xbox fanboys are the worst IMO, its pretty much proven now, the amount of made up fud against PS was unbelievable, the bragging on another level.

Its absolutely no surprise that in every comparison when they 'lose' its going to come back full force at them, its just the way life works.

You do not brag so hard unless your totally sure your going ro win otherwise your setting yourself up for a fall.

I tried to explain to load of them mainly on YouTube and other places, dealers comment section but some people on here too and getting attacked left right and centre.

All the evidence was there and was discussed in the next gen thread by many here.

A shame the xbox side largely dismissed it all and put laughing emojis etc.

This from back in mid May wasnt too far off...

So as the post by insane metal a good lot of pages ago... from a third party dev..



This lines up with what we have heard from a lot of whispers coming out.

The crytek dev who didn't just say a few words he gave massive in depth answers and was dismissed by a lot of hardcore xbox fans as it was pulled for 'personal reasons'...

It's looking like this is the picture coming out. The xbox is very powerful but the ps5 is revolutionary and has made io breakthroughs and has gone for insane speed.


Xbox has been going with the most powerful console narrative and yes it is technically.

I wonder if Sony has been happy for them to push this and let it be absorbed by all?

Let's face it, it has whipped the hardcore up into a frenzy and when you read the twitter and YouTube comments a lot were believing the dealers of this world and that the XSX should be WAY more powerful.

I wonder if Sony was ok with this happening if they knew what they had in their locker and the real world performance being close, equal or even in some areas a lot in their favour, which when the reality drops it could be very bad pr for xbox and the ultra fans having meltdowns.

Afterall the expectation built up now is the worlds most powerful console has to run better or there will be chaos. I do wonder if xbox has built up too much hype on this, riding the most powerful wave but now has to back it up and reality is not quite what a lot were told. In some areas like a bit more resolution and a bit stronger ray tracing yes it can have a probably small lead but that's nothing massive or that noticeable.

Ps5 is seeming like it should easily show how much faster it is in loading and streaming which seems critical for UE5 demo graphics and the flying section for eg. If the xbox can't run things at the same settings that's terrible optics for the world's most powerful console.

In the quoted dev opinion it says 2.5-5x the speed not sure if that overall io but I'd expect it be as the ssd alone is x2 and factor in the dedicated hardware it should be more IMO.

We have seen some unbelievable attempts to damage control, the best being that laptop, turns out its not running the demo but playing the damn video, you couldn't make this stuff up. 😃

I think xbox has built up an unrealistic power angle that is going to be hard to show and with gaps expected that are completely unrealistic. Add in the ps5 being ahead in some key areas and I'd expect a lot of meltdowns to come.
 
Last edited:

assurdum

Member
Aug 14, 2020
2,440
4,109
475
I think the virtualization approach on series X doesn't pay dividends as MS thought, especially to squeeze more from the hardware. Different developers have always criticized direct X because it prevents the perfomance to reach the maximum peak possible without the low access API; now, imagine in a close hardware like a console what can happen. Surely there will be improvements but I'm quite curious to see in what entity Vs to code to the "metal" possible on ps5..
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SynTha1
Dec 29, 2018
4,069
11,921
745
Rolling my eyes at the immature chest beating, but I have to say it’s pretty remarkable how consistently the PS5 has emerged in the lead at this early stage.

I bought into what I honestly thought would be the weaker system, just as an extra for exclusives, and somehow ended up with the actual beast. I really have to credit Mark Cerny and his staff for a very intelligent, unconventional design that accomplishes more with less, to the point where it’s simultaneously the cheapest and best performing next-gen system.

That said, the differences are typically minuscule. Series X owners shouldn’t be disheartened over anything but the expectations of blowing out the competition not happening, and that’s not the biggest deal in the end. It’s a gorgeous game on both.

Props to 2K too, for doing right by the players with a true next-gen game. I get the feeling that the limited scope of an NBA game may help? You can certainly see that the non-court parts are a big step back. But nonetheless.
LOL What?! Are you fucking kidding me?

Did you see the state of this forum after Road to PS5 dropped? You could barely hold a decent conversation regarding any of the specs of both consoles without being trolled relentlessly by an Xbox fan.
There are many examples of people just trying to discuss specs (without any fanboy ism) and you'd have the thread thrown into disarray because some Xbox fans entered to remind you of the 12TF monster Xbox and how the PS5 is going to suffer against the power king.
This happened daily in multiple threads and was one of the reasons I took a short break from the forum.

So please, kindly STFU with that noise. There wouldn't be any gloating if it wasn't for the endless months of trolling from camp XBOX.
 
Last edited:

assurdum

Member
Aug 14, 2020
2,440
4,109
475
It will come and the melt downs will be glorious, when the SDK is fixed. 🤡 just wait .
Can't wait to see the same difference hit the other side just to hear the same people who now define meaningless such gap, suddenly change their tone as incredible achievement in performance, an unprecedent, only possible in the 12 TF monster.
The DF COD thread it's the perfect resume .
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Aceofspades

J_Gamer.exe

Member
May 4, 2020
755
3,667
405
LOL What?! Are you fucking kidding me?

Did you see the state of this forum after Road to PS5 dropped? You could barely hold a decent conversation regarding any of the specs of both consoles without being trolled relentlessly by an Xbox fan.
There are many examples of people just trying to discuss specs (without any fanboy ism) and you'd have the thread thrown into disarray because some Xbox fans entered to remind you of the 12TF monster Xbox and how the PS5 is going to suffer against the power king.
This happened daily in multiple threads and was one of the reasons I took a short break from the forum.

So please, kindly STFU with that noise. There wouldn't be any gloating if it wasn't for the endless months of trolling from camp XBOX.

I decided to go back and have a little look and this is just a snippet, there's tons of gold material to be had. People really bought into the teraflops marketing. Xbox either did it knowing or were completely caught off guard themselves after buying into it too much.

I put my money on it now, the peak clocks of the ps5 will only ever be temporary.
PS5 GPU: 1080TI
Series X: 2080S

Most people said they would be happy with such power just few weeks ago.
It seems nearly in every category Series X outdid PS5

GPU CUs
GPU TFs
CPU clock speed
SSD Size
Expanding SSD instead of replacing
Full backwards compatibility
Enhanced backwards compatibility showcase
Smart delivery
Multi game switching showcased
Auto HDR for old games

The only thing PS5 has over Series X is

Higher clockspeed for GPU and even that's variable seems like wishy washy damage control as most likely can't handle high clockspeed at all times

Faster SSD very cool feature but if 3rd party games need to run on Series X they won't take advantage of faster SSD in terms of gameplay design other than quicker loading.

3D Audio

It didn't help they barely mentioned Ray tracing making me think it can't do it as well as Series X, and no mention of VRS.

What a shit show from Sony. If it was this bad they should have announced with exclusive games.
What I got from Eurogamer video was that PS5 can't sustain both max CPU and GPU speeds at the same time, it has to prioritize one over the other, which is a real bummer. The SSD does sound interesting the way it's designed so let's see how it functions in games.
I wanted xsx to have a slight edge because they are truly trying and taking big steps. So I wanted them to do better this gen. But I didnt want ps5 to drop the ball this bad... no true BC, 9TF in reality at times if you see the DF... I mean compare this to 12.1 tf, faster CPU clocks, gamepass killing it, FULL BC.

I have both systems. Ps4 pro and one x.
I thought 2.0ghz was ridiculous when that was the rumour, 2.2ghz is beyond mindboggling. No way would you set out making a console with that in mind. Simple fact is 10.3tf sounds a hell of a lot better than 9.2tf, especially when you know your opposition is bringing 12.1.
I dont care what anyone says, and imo tech sites will prove it after launch, PS5 wont be running close to 10.3tf when running actual games.
I like how Cerny was like 36 rdna cus are like 58 ps4 gcn cus!!!!

well, ps4 cus were on 28nm. rdna 2.0 is on 7nm. thats a 4x reduction. should have 4x the CUs.

18*4=72 cus. they went so cheap they couldnt even give us a full 4x transistor leap. i have no idea why they picked the gpu to save money.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
18,529
11,703
2,110
Can't wait to see the same difference hit the other side just to hear the same people who now define meaningless such gap, suddenly change their tone as incredible achievement in performance, an unprecedent, only possible in the 12 TF monster.
The DF COD thread it's the perfect resume .

Argument timeline would likely go along this path in such scenario: “9 TFLOPS, 18% gap in favour of the XSX is the minimum to be expected, it will be much much wider” —> “ah parity or few percentage loss does not matter, the games are the same, few percentage points of performance is a meaningless delta” -> “ XSX won (by single digits x%), monster... best way to play, best place to play, eat crow you idiots whooohooo”... and they will hope that the 18% “minimum” gap will be forgotten and pretend nobody was really seriously saying that at all.
 
Last edited:

Md Ray

Gold Member
Nov 12, 2016
2,407
7,727
685
India
Nah, you've seen it all, no need to act surprised. The banter over xbox fans for the extremely aggressive FUD campaign against PS5, calling PS5 a 9TF console, weak console, and xbox gonna crush PS5 by 40-50fps.

We asked for parity, and instead Sony provided a devastating dominance in all multiplats. With Xbox you left with nothing to justify your buy except having your friends there. So expect laughs and banter on every face-off after the sleazy campaign of Phil Spencer, Aaron Greenberg and their goons.

Karma is a bitch, as they say.




That tweet from Tom Warring is hilarious yet embarassing as fuck. 🤣 No wonder he deleted that shit. But the internet never forgets.
 

Heisenberg007

Member
Nov 16, 2020
1,486
4,534
355
That tweet from Tom Warring is hilarious yet embarassing as fuck. 🤣 No wonder he deleted that shit. But the internet never forgets.

The simplest thing for a journalist is to not delete a tweet but apologize. It's about integrity. And if a journalist doesn't have integrity, what does he have left!

Man, I don't know how they sleep, knowing how full of bullshit they are and how they sway people with their lies.
 

Aceofspades

Banned
Mar 31, 2015
3,731
7,701
865
Argument timeline would likely go along this path in such scenario: “9 TFLOPS, 18% gap in favour of the XSX is the minimum to be expected, it will be much much wider” —> “ah parity or few percentage loss does not matter, the games are the same, few percentage points of performance is a meaningless delta” -> “ XSX won (by single digits x%), monster... best way to play, best place to play, eat crow you idiots whooohooo”... and they will hope that the 18% “minimum” gap will be forgotten and pretend nobody was really seriously saying that at all.

You are absolutely right, we saw a glimpse of that on DF COD thread, and XSX didn't even win that 🤣
 

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
14,605
69,976
965
35
Salalah, Oman
The simplest thing for a journalist is to not delete a tweet but apologize. It's about integrity. And if a journalist doesn't have integrity, what does he have left!

Man, I don't know how they sleep, knowing how full of bullshit they are and how they sway people with their lies.

They sleep like babies with pillows filled with microsoft dollar papers.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
18,529
11,703
2,110
These threads are just full of back slapping George Bush "Mission Accomplished" fanboys gleefully cheering a 2 fps frame drop on an obscure camera angle no one uses on the console they don't like. This would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

Sure, that is the angle... not the chest beating, the insane “18% difference is the absolute minimum just you watch”, not all the cynical way to take every possible thing said and especially not said about PS5 (Raytracing not being really HW accelerated like XSX, only 100 or less PS4 titles supported in BC mode and with few of any enhancements, last minute overclock, RDNA1 GPU vs RDNA2, etc...).

A certain green pack celebrated absolute victory super early on and were busy repeating talking points in unison and all but ready to call PS5 a badly engineered and rushed piece of trash.
 
Last edited:

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
14,605
69,976
965
35
Salalah, Oman
LOL What?! Are you fucking kidding me?

Did you see the state of this forum after Road to PS5 dropped? You could barely hold a decent conversation regarding any of the specs of both consoles without being trolled relentlessly by an Xbox fan.
There are many examples of people just trying to discuss specs (without any fanboy ism) and you'd have the thread thrown into disarray because some Xbox fans entered to remind you of the 12TF monster Xbox and how the PS5 is going to suffer against the power king.
This happened daily in multiple threads and was one of the reasons I took a short break from the forum.

So please, kindly STFU with that noise. There wouldn't be any gloating if it wasn't for the endless months of trolling from camp XBOX.

Did you know that those clowns were begging for 9TF comment to not be bannable in the ban review thread? They were extremely aggressive with horde mentality and now you find them crying and acting "mature" to ease the pain of all the backfires of Microsoft's lies and FUD. :lollipop_tears_of_joy:
 
Dec 29, 2018
4,069
11,921
745
Did you know that those clowns were begging for 9TF comment to not be bannable in the ban review thread? They were extremely aggressive with horde mentality and now you find them crying and acting "mature" to ease the pain of all the backfires of Microsoft's lies and FUD. :lollipop_tears_of_joy:
OH you've got to be kidding me? Are you serious?
Bro, these people are fucking delusional. I got no sympathy for any of them. Actively trying to encourage the spread of misinformation?
They can get fucked. Every last one of them.
 

BlueXImpulse

Member
Jul 10, 2020
2,540
14,984
540
I decided to go back and have a little look and this is just a snippet, there's tons of gold material to be had. People really bought into the teraflops marketing. Xbox either did it knowing or were completely caught off guard themselves after buying into it too much.

Absolutely painful to read. The same people will pretend that they never said these things.
 

DJ12

Member
Jun 10, 2013
1,049
2,641
690
Derby, England
These threads are just full of back slapping George Bush "Mission Accomplished" fanboys gleefully cheering a 2 fps frame drop on an obscure camera angle no one uses on the console they don't like. This would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.
It's not the fact PS5 is hitting vsync when Series X is struggling (so way more than actually 2 FPS difference if the framerate was unclocked), or that PS5 generally has higher details. It's the chickens coming home to roost that I enjoy the most.

You have gleefully participated when you, wrongly, called victory in COD with your fellow xbox fans. If you cannot take the heat, get out the kitchen.
 

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
14,605
69,976
965
35
Salalah, Oman
OH you've got to be kidding me? Are you serious?
Bro, these people are fucking delusional. I got no sympathy for any of them. Actively trying to encourage the spread of misinformation?
They can get fucked. Every last one of them.

The review ban thread is literally influenced by xbox fans that directly insult any Sony fan asking for an appeal and get away with it, to the point some Sony fans react and get banned by mods while the baiter with his/her personal attacks and insults celebrates and remains untouched.

It's an xbox swamp, really.
 
Last edited:

TTOOLL

Member
Mar 22, 2012
4,679
4,290
960
Lol at John naming his character Chad Warden
Also, Omar coming!

edit: the music John used is freaking awesome. Does anyone know what is it?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Mr Moose and Md Ray