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DF: Next gen coverage getting underway on both platforms
- Thread starter cormack12
- Start date
geordiemp
Member
Bugsnax...
Its OK for children to have games as well ? Do you have kids ?
Its a indie game, I dont get the fascination with indie games for kids, they have a place.
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MilkyJoe
Member
No, as the great Anne Ramsey once said "kids suck"
geordiemp
Member
Of course they are and DF know this, its been known for years since 360 days vs ps3.
Still fun though, and if they did not do it, someone else will.
A2una1
Member
geordiemp
Member
This sounds like an excuse weapons manufacturere would give
LOL, and a video does little harm but make a thousand fanboys cry in pain.
Everyone else is interested in how the games run and the nuances.
A2una1
Member
Yourt right of course, but my inner cinic couldn't resist
. But sometimes I wonder. Their videos have a tendency to overexagerate things a bit, leading further to the point where you could be enjoying your game a little bit lesser and adding to the overall very toxic level in video game forums. This is mainly the reason I avoid these kind of videos (not only DFs). Sometimes they draw the fun out of a hobby designed purely for having fun and beeing entertaint.
regawdless
Banned
Do we know when the embargos will lift? I wanna know when those videos will hit.
Ar¢tos
Member
I'll take Bugsnax over AC Valhalla.Bugsnax...
At least Bugsnax is trying something new, for a different audience, it is not the same old game reskinned for a different setting (Greek theme to Viking theme, before that was Egypt to Greece, etc).
MilkyJoe
Member
Ass Creed sucks. I'm right with you there
Nakasan
Member
Yourt right of course, but my inner cinic couldn't resist
Somewhat interestingly, the videos have the opposite effect with me! They certainly point out where one version differs from another's but they also try to show what is impressive about the presentation which actually adds to my enjoyment! I'm a techy person so knowing the ins and outs are fascinating in their own right, and then seeing that tech applied in real time while I'm playing it is a bit of a joy!
But I agree in one area, there's absolutely a time where knowing too much removes the lustre. It's why I gave up videogame programming. Took away the magic!
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
Reconstructed 4K but yeah native 1440p. Rich from DF couldn't tell it wasn’t native 4K from pixel counting several screenshots.
I just took two screenshots recently of Mafia Definitive Edition on PC at 1440 and 2160 and flipping between the shots it’s really difficult to tell the difference and that’s without any tricks just standard resolutions.
I personally think the PS5 game’s going for native 4K is a complete waste but they are not yet pushing visuals. Once they cut back to 1440 or 1440 checkerboard they’ll essentially have twice the GPU compute to work with which is pretty insane when you look at something like Ratchet which has probably been largely made with non final hardware specs, devkits and API’s.
If developers who want to push visuals limit to 1440/30 then Hellblade II is the sort of fidelity they’ll get along with RT AO and reflections imo. Pretty insane for a $500 box.
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geordiemp
Member
Sony have a DLSS type ML / Upscaling patent in Japanese. There is more to be learned.
BigDaddyDavee
Member
What's the point in showing games that are clearly not next gen at this point and in this context? Disappointment and frustration is totally understandable. It sounds bonkers to hear someone say next gen is underway and then saying in the same breath, don't be upset as the games aren't next gen.
Might be better to not post a video if there isn't anything to show or just show the next gen stuff.
Might be better to not post a video if there isn't anything to show or just show the next gen stuff.
VFXVeteran
Banned
There better be innovations and not things they could do anyway if they had the time. I'll eagerly await the multiple RT features of GI, shadowing, reflections, etc.. all in one game at no cost to the rendering budget.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
I'll just ask this for you guys that think I'm wrong:
Objectively give me an example of a company that made a game early last gen with a set of graphical features in the game that when they made the 2nd game at the end of the generation, improved upon those same graphical features with no cost to the rendering budget.
If this is common place, you should be able to mention 1st and 3rd party games that fit within that 7yr timespan.
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Inviusx
Member
No idea but Sony are holding their cards tightly so maybe not until launch day if they want to control the message.
Im hoping for some leaks though.
geordiemp
Member
Ps4 pro introduced checkerboard on ps4 games which allowed decent 4k compared to 1080p at same settings. It was a simple upscale.
I think we have not seen all the tricks yet, all ps5 games shown as 4K or dynamic 4k so far.
I believe Sony will have put that Japanese patent in for a DLSS type upscaler like ps4 pro checkerboard, they just have not shown it yet, of if they have its that good nobody has noticed,
We have more to understand and to be revealed I think
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Ar¢tos
Member
Killzone Shadow fall vs Horizon Zero Dawn
VFXVeteran
Banned
Sawyer!!! Welcome back! We have much to discuss.
UE5 has already shown their technology. That is NOT what I'm saying. To be clear, what I'm saying is that what we have SEEN now with regards to graphics tech will not be improved upon to the point that developers will be able to extract out significant performance tricks that will lead to better implementation of the same features with 0 cost to the rendering budget. For example, Spiderman MM reflections cull out nearly every thing from the scene in order to render the reflections and the game only renders at 4k/30FPS with just this 1 RT feature. We would be remiss to think that the next Spiderman game 4yrs down the line with the same hardware will suddenly cull less of the scene in reflections, render RT GI, render RT shadows, RT AO, etc.. all at the same cost of 4k/30FPS. This is clearly what most of you are implying and that's just a pipe dream.
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John Mullins
Banned
What's with all this fragile victim hood stuff?
People are going to talk shit. It's why the internet was invented. Get a thicker skin and stop being stupid.
People are going to talk shit. It's why the internet was invented. Get a thicker skin and stop being stupid.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Dude, it has to be the SAME game by the same devs to prove your point. Those are two different games with different scopes.
Ar¢tos
Member
Yes, horizon has a much bigger scope and looks better than Killzone. Is that not enough for you??
VFXVeteran
Banned
Stick to the script man. Read my reply to Sawyer.
Ar¢tos
Member
You never said it had to be the same game. So you KEEP TO THE SCRIPT!
VFXVeteran
Banned
Wtf are you talking about? That is exactly what I just said! Read that again dude!
If I'm Insomniac and I make Spiderman MM, now I can go back into the lab and develop the next Spiderman game during this same generation and when I release it -- according to you -- it should have way more RT features at the same cost of my first game. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?
Low Moral Fibre
Member
Looking forward to seeing which plastic box will play multiplatform games the best but I expect a damp squib.
If the PS5 really has some secret sauce and my XSX is a BC and Game Pass only box great but I'd bank on parity for image quality and fewer frame rate drops on XSX.
If the PS5 really has some secret sauce and my XSX is a BC and Game Pass only box great but I'd bank on parity for image quality and fewer frame rate drops on XSX.
All_Might
Member
I agree, for example with ray tracing the only improvements that could be made are slight improvements in ray tracing algorithms, that surely are bound to be improved as the technology itself matures. The hardware itself is already showing what it’s capable of, which is very impressive given the price of both new consoles. Ray tracing in itself is a very taxing feature that if used correctly can improve a game scene. Though I would argue that even with these new consoles, people are expecting to much of a feature that has yet to mature. Using the full feature set of Ray tracing is simply to taxing with the Technology build right now. Even high end pcs do still struggle to output a solid frame rate when applied. Back to the argument VFX is trying to make, in order for a frame to be less taxing, some of its parts have to be rewritten and by doing so you simply have to cut some corners, otherwise the same frame with better graphics will be more costly. Lets take a look at GTA IV vs GTA V. This is a prime expample of developers cutting rendering cost in order to improve graphics and one would argue that the game simply takes much more advantage of the provided hardware and that’s partly true. The big thing though is that the game also cut back a lot of engine features provided by the Euphoria physics engine. If you were to directly compare GTA IV vs V you would notice that most of the vehicle deformations, pedestrian behaviour and many more simple interactions with peds have been cut back to improve other areas of each frame. Hence a much more stable frame rate on both ps3 and Xbox 360 with GTA V. The same can be applied here, if by the end of the next generation Spider-Man looks better then MM right now in regards to ray tracing, it’s simply due to the rebalance of each workload to the available hardware and maybe smaller improvements such as coding to the hardware explicitly and more efficiently. If the graphics improve while the rendering budget increases without a loss to the frame rate, that would simply indicate that the first game was either not very well optimised for the hardware, or a new feature set is found to decrease workloads while doing the same operations. Games are bound to look better at the end of the generation but that is not because the same technology is somehow running better, but because new technologies are applied and games are coded closer to the metal they are supposed to run on.
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FrankWza
Member
You’ve narrowed it down so much though
It has to:
-be AAA
-have come out early enough in the PS4 lifetime to allow for them to develop another game before next gen started
-be from the same series
-use the same engine
.....
If you loosen the criteria without it being in the same series wouldn’t sucker punch fit in well here if they used the same engine?
Infamous a few months into last gen and GoT a few months before the end. Superior graphically and technically and cut down on load times.
Ar¢tos
Member
I never said way more. Where are you getting that from?
Im talking of small improvements over time.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
Naughty Dog: Uncharted 4 and TLOU2?
Capcom: Resident Evil 7 vs. Resident Evil 2/3 Remakes?
Square Enix: Final Fantasy 15 vs Final Fantasy 7: Remake?
Idk. You'll propably find excuses for why those games don't count though.
Btw. I am pointing out DEVs and their games that improved Visually over the lifetime of a console, regardless how or why this was achived.
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MastaKiiLA
Member
You're tightening the constraints to the point that sample size becomes a bigger factor in the results than the argument that you're rebutting. I think the original claim was made based on the fact that game engines get more efficient through iteration. Not just game engines, but all kinds of code. Your first crack at a system isn't your best swing, especially when it's launch software. You will iterate certain functions in the your code to improve efficiency, and those gains can be applied elsewhere in the pipeline for functions that are less malleable.
TBF, I not sure what you're really trying to prove. It seems to just be a contrarian take for the sake of being contrarian.
Ar¢tos
Member
They'll get one a week or two before the release, probably it will even be a debug model like Sony did for big Media sites with the ps4.
FrankWza
Member
I wonder when 3rd party game keys are going to go out, going to be a very busy 2 weeks.
I read that patent differently, similar to this guy.
Sony Patent Suggests DLSS-Like Machine Learning Could Be Used On PS5 Games
A new Sony patent suggests that a technique similar to Nvidia’s DLSS sampling could be used on PS5 games to improve the resolution of games using AI learning. The patent, which was spotted by a Reddit user, describes the technique as the following: An information processing device for...
JimboJones
Member
Devs might get smarter with art direction and prioritize better where it matters in games, but they are still constrained by the hardware specification that they are given. Devs have had just as much time to get better aquatinted with XboxOne hardware but there is no magic bullet or trick that will suddenly make it more performent than a PS4, same with Switch, as good as some ports are there are limits to what it can do, no matter how they "squeeze" it.
The Last of Us 2 or Ghosts of Tsushima look great but I would say they still look and perform as expected from a current gen game.
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geordiemp
Member
I read that patent differently, similar to this guy.
Sony Patent Suggests DLSS-Like Machine Learning Could Be Used On PS5 Games
A new Sony patent suggests that a technique similar to Nvidia’s DLSS sampling could be used on PS5 games to improve the resolution of games using AI learning. The patent, which was spotted by a Reddit user, describes the technique as the following: An information processing device for...www.neogaf.com
Yes, that is a cemera patent method.
We dont know what ps5 has put in place of checkerboard upscaling, so remains to be seen if their improved temporal techniques or something using that and a mix of ML. WE dont know but Sony willl have imporved on what was in the last console.
Hopefully its a good generic technique that applies more easily and readily to all console games.
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Klayzer
Member
From a supposed "industry professional" at that. Trying my hardest to remember anything worthwhile this cat has ever posted. All I can think of is biased contrarian toxic bullshit.
With PS4/Xbox One devs was already trying squeeze blood out of a turnip dealing with the CPU but 7 years later it's still hanging in there & from the looks of things they will tag along for a few more years. As of right now we haven't seen anything on the Xbox side that look as good as The Last of Us 2 or Ghosts of Tsushima & you expect me to believe that things are not going to get much better?
JimboJones
Member
Looking good is a subjective matter but there are games on SeriesX and PS5 pushing far more pixels at higher framerate, using similar or more advanced effects like raytracing than both those games.
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Think if you listened to the
The battle of the algo's are going to be interesting, DLSS vs DirectML upscaling (forgotten the name) vs AMD's offering if they still use it vs Sony's checkerboarding v2
The battle of the algo's are going to be interesting, DLSS vs DirectML upscaling (forgotten the name) vs AMD's offering if they still use it vs Sony's checkerboarding v2
What we see or think we are seeing when playing games is all that matter
geordiemp
Member
I would just prefer if the implementation just worked like the ps4 pro but used a fancier technique, so that all ps4 pro games played in BC mode benefited day 1 on ps5
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FrankWza
Member
probably loaded so that if a multiplat comes in 2 frames per higher on x vs PS5 he can say “ and it’s not going to get better with other multiplats down the road”
even though watchdogs is4K @30 on both and DMCVSEhas all the same options and PS5 includes RT at launch
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hemo memo
Gold Member
2 weeks before release is next week.
Ar¢tos
Member
Edit : nvm, I'm stupid and can't count days.
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