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[DF] PS5’s Backwards Compatibility: Which games could see the biggest boost?
- Thread starter JareBear: Remastered
- Start date
Shin
Banned
Normally a person would restrain themselves from doing something that they experience as unpleasant, it's called self-control I believe.
But nope not you lot, let's enter a thread and shit all over it with nonsensical shit born from one's own insecurities that has nothing to do with the topic.
Every DF thread, you guys are like clockwork of how Digital Foundry is out to get PlayStation and bla bla bla, it paints a nice picture which can be seen below.
Case in point not everyone is going to have something positive to say, someone has to cover the subjects others don't want to touch - you guys might want to try it sometime.
Bryank75
Banned
It is a PlayStation thread and I am addressing the video directly, saying I don't like the tone they have and that the points feel like they are delivered with underlying bias or negativity. If many other people feel the same way.... I dunno what to tell you but I am entitled to my opinion on the matter.Normally a person would restrain themselves from doing something that they experience as unpleasant, it's called self-control I believe.
But nope not you lot, let's enter a thread and shit all over it with nonsensical shit born from one's own insecurities that has nothing to do with the topic.
Every DF thread, you guys are like clockwork of how Digital Foundry is out to get PlayStation and bla bla bla, it paints a nice picture which can be seen below.
Case in point not everyone is going to have something positive to say, someone has to cover the subjects others don't want to touch - you guys might want to try it sometime.
I have often said in the past that I like John and have acknowledged that nobody is totally unbiased, it's a shame the way he was treated but I didn't say anything disrespectful to him and wish he still dropped in to chat.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Normally a person would restrain themselves from doing something that they experience as unpleasant, it's called self-control I believe.
But nope not you lot, let's enter a thread and shit all over it with nonsensical shit born from one's own insecurities that has nothing to do with the topic.
Every DF thread, you guys are like clockwork of how Digital Foundry is out to get PlayStation and bla bla bla, it paints a nice picture which can be seen below.
Case in point not everyone is going to have something positive to say, someone has to cover the subjects others don't want to touch - you guys might want to try it sometime.
Or maybe... just maybe there is a point to some of the arguments about Leadbetter, but let’s be a bit cheekily disingenuous and pretend they have never been listed in detail and in chronological order and context.
Commenting about what Leadbetter said and his tone whenever talking about Xbox then. John just finished talking about the strong PS history of BC and Richard L. went on another “Xbox pioneered and offers such a wizard like consoles BC experience” off topic bit (their video was about PS5 BC) . John sat in silence for a bit after that and repeated how strong PS2 and launch PS3 were in BC support (not of just a selected group of titles, but thousands and thousands).
John was realistic and balanced some skepticism with a pragmatic yet reasonably hopeful logic. Leadbetter spent more time praising MS and Xbox, as well as try to raise concern, than anything else.
Is building a straw man by exaggerating and stretching reality (and pretending to ignore data pointed out to you) a workshopped idea perhaps? I will wait the official SonyGAF victim card shoutout anytime
.
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Hostile_18
Banned
Interesting video but I'd be super disappointed if over double the specs of the PS4 Pro only resulted in a few extra frames for legacy games.
Let's boost up that resolution to native 4k 60 at the least, without developer patches where possible.
Let's boost up that resolution to native 4k 60 at the least, without developer patches where possible.
Shin
Banned
Color me surprised that another console is mentioned and/or praised for something that they've actively pursuing in recent years.
It stands within reason that it's brought up as an argument in a video about something they have in commmon, it helps the end user which aren't only PlayStation fans.
This is a rather strange issue you are having considering the amount of threads you try and correct
Mista
while trying to come across as a neutral gamer and lover of all consoles.Interestingly enough, Alex is hated as well because - you've guessed it: PS negativity, so that's about 2/3 which aren't playing the tunes you and the minions ears only want to hear.
Then again why am I wasting time on this shit, idc about you, GAF or DF so carry on.
FALCON_KICK
Member
False equivalence. Local machine(PS5/XSX) vs remote data-centers accessed over internet aka cloud.
SSD being an integral part of the next generation of console hardware will definitely bring significant changes to the way games are designed going forward i.e. whenever they choose to relinquish PS4/XB1 generation.
Mista
Banned
I understand that this is something new to Sony and it'll be challenging at the beginning for them
But all games should be boosted on PS5 later on and not just some titles only
But all games should be boosted on PS5 later on and not just some titles only
I don't remember this maybe because it never mattered to me
Fake
Member
For the contrary. BC is not something new for Sony and thats why is totally fair asking for all games. Again, money still play a huge role, so expect 'limitations'.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Alex? Well, he only had A bit of eyebrows raised when keeping the RT software based rumours alive and well, but nothing more than that. It was the now famous Discord group bent on ensuring people are not “falling under the PS5 spell” and coordinate.
I understand the plausible deniability angle, good save.
Interesting how you do not say much about John who is also critical about PS and Sony while still being respected as a poster, reviewer, and gamer. Oh yeah, it would hurt your narrative
.Are you trying to stir shit or just stalking me? I do not mind you doing either. it is your time you are wastingThis is a rather strange issue you are having considering the amount of threads you try and correct
.
Mista
Banned
BC that plays the old games the same is not what everyone wants or at least thats now what I want
Xbox BC boosts everything even the original titles. So I want Sony to do the same at some point
Its only fair since theres another console giving me that right?
Armorian
Banned
This needs developers to basicaly port the game to new console (like "HD remasters").
Fake
Member
Microsoft use Software emulation. Thats 'why' is possible the games on Xbox getting the boost. Nothing against, I was expecting Sony follow Microsoft in that departament, but their build in house engines are very sensetive to specs variation. I guess Cerny mention that, about some games 'broke' because of the PS5 boost.
For me I super fine playing my PS4 without boost. The boost should be my 'extra'.
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Mista
Banned
Yeah of course, I am not saying that I am not fine with it either. But since I got something better of course I want the other side to give me the same
Thats my point. Like you can't go from a Ferrari to a Toyota Corolla if this makes any sense
martino
Member
And i probably misunderstood but i was under the impression supported BC games needed work and some form of patch or per game dev download custom version of them.
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Shmunter
Member
Perhaps, but we’re seeing big advances in dynamic up-scaling techniques.
If clever enough, such things could be applied to increase not just resolution, but also internal textures. These sorts of things could be injected under emulation with the base game code being none the wiser.
Even providing dud vblank info can double framerate under many circumstances as seen in emulators such as the pc RPCS3 emu running original PS3 30fps games at 60fps without speeding up the logic.
I appreciate it’s likely wishful thinking.
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Shin
Banned
Elaborate as your message got cluttered while trying to sound intelligent.
There's nothing to say about John nor am I the one having issues, yet it reiterates what I've previously written.Interesting how you do not say much about John who is also critical about PS and Sony while still being respected as a poster, reviewer, and gamer. Oh yeah, it would hurt your narrative
To sum things up: you and some others have issues about the 2-3 phrases where Richard mentions Xbox in a 28min.+ video.
Pointing out obvious issues others have over nothing and me having good/excellent memory isn't the same as stirring shit or stalking.
You'd be wise to remember that.
It's a means to an end, but that also brings or had it's own set of problems.
I remember when PS3 came out I think the US model had hardware BC while the EU version was software based and there were discrepancies.
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Armorian
Banned
There is possibility that currently developed PS4 games have "PS5" profiles in them so that everything you mentioned is could end up true for this software.
MS showed that you can do quite a lot of things under emulation with X1X enhanced titles but that still need emulator to be written up for specific games and I don't think any game had framerate unlocker, this can cause major issues even in PC native games that were locked to 30fps by developers (original Dark Souls port).
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Shmunter
Member
Software emulation is definitely the way to go for flexibility. Can make it do all manner extendible stuff.
But if anything, Sony should at the very least checkerboard upscale a PS4/pro game on the ps5. Nothing more to it then applying the logic at the frame buffer, completely uneffecting the emulation before it and gives universal enhancement.
To think about, it is absolutely what they will do, otherwise they are pretty thick. But I’ve seen Sony do lots of boneheaded system related things.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I was referring to how you hand waved Leadbetter’s attitude as a gaming tech blogger when he joined John’s on his PS5 BC segment: “he was just bringing Xbox in the conversation (and spending a lot of time on it) to offer context”. This is the plausible deniability argument to the criticism raised. I do not believe it holds, you do
.You made a case about people having a bone to pick with the entirety of DF, something that does not hold so it is silently tossed aside, as a whole. I have more of an issue with Leadbetter’s attitude in particular as throughout his career at DF he tends to overhype one faction, presenting everything about it under an optimistic lens while raising as much concern and doubt he can get away with as the other.There's nothing to say about John nor am I the one having issues, yet it reiterates what I've previously written.
To sum things up: you and some others have issues about the 2-3 phrases where Richard mentions Xbox in a 28min.+ video.
Having a non insignificant viewership makes the issue bigger than smaller,but kudos for him for getting the site where it is today.
That is just a beautiful “surely coincidental” side effect, isn’t it?
Vaguely threatening, but sure... You do what you think it is best.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Sony made a decision to allow and recommend a lower level API’s without the performance impact of virtualisation and this will restrict them in taking optimised titles and forcing them to change the way they run without developers cooperation . Surely, it makes sense they have been preparing the PS4 SDK for it and there may be a degree of forward compatibility in the current SDK already.
That strategy relies on users updating the console OS promptly and giving developers less reasons to run with older outdated SDK’s though.
SonGoku
Member
I hope they do even if just for 4k/30fps, it wouldn't take more than a few lines of code or add the game specific code to the emulator like MS does 360
That said not getting my hopes up
Shmunter
Member
How does Xbox do it? I just realised games actually get a recompiled exe downloaded? That’s not usual for emulation.
drotahorror
Member
Did no one mention Driveclub? Are you fuckin serious GAF?
I might have missed it.
I might have missed it.
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Fake
Member
Why should be? Is driveclub runs like shit?
They mention games with unstable/unlocked frame rate with don't meet their expectations.
Sakura Doritos
Member
I just want the games to work their best as delivered on PS4 Base / Pro. I want my PSVR to work.
I don’t care after that.
And if wouldn’t be too much to ask I’d like Bloodbourne to be 60fps and nonframepacing but Inwont hold my breath on that one.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I think this is for Xbox 360 and OG Xbox titles, but for (and still more enhanced than commonly found) Xbox One to Xbox One X BC more standard techniques are applied (the virtual CPU and GPU the game runs on have higher limits I expect so they tend to run at max resolution and framerate in unlocked and dynamic resolution scenarios, calls may be patched at runtime to select a higher number of texture samples to improve texture filtering, internal buffers may be increased in size to allow for higher resolution rendering, etc...).
Bryank75
Banned
Games broke on Xbox emulation too, for instance when they tried to go up to 60 fps on some shooter the aiming reticle wouldn't work properly anymore.....they had the previous head of BC on Dealer and Timdogs podcast a few days ago, so I was listening.
He works in mixed reality now...his name is Bill...something or other.
Edit: Stillwell.
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Fake
Member
Every source of emulation, software or hardware/native, have this problem, but what I pointing is Sony was pursuiting Microsoft approach to BC for sometime, but end kinda more problematic. A little reminder that Xbox consoles actually are running with a custom version of Windows 10, so maybe thats explain why software emulation fet so well there.
Can be a silly of my part, but PC emulators don't usally have those big problems running roms even if you have a uber powerful PC specs, thats because they're trying to replicate the hardware without really boosting the game design so much. As a base, you can increase the internal resolution, put anti-aliasing, Anisotropic filter, etc...
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thelastword
Banned
And that's the right approach because PS5 games are much more important for PS5 sales and adoption than prioritizing PS4 games...…..In any case, I still believe that they asking devs to patch the most popular games is the best thing......Devs can remove the frame caps, improve textures, increase resolution to 4k and even do some light tuning for the SSD, so they can accomplish more and quicker than the MS BC team can....
Yet, my suggestion years back was for Sony engineers to develop a way to break the frame and rez cap on all games on PS hardware, if they have been able to accomplish that and also improve textures on old titles just like they did Parappa or even retroactively implement trophies on their older PS1/PS2/PS3 titles, that would be very impressive...….Yet people should never lose focus on the fact, that none of these efforts are going to have people running to buy PS5, that will be determined by when Sony first party shows what the console is capable of, with ground up games.....Few people will talk of BC after a month of next gen consoles.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Well, if Xbox One X is an indicator what it can do to old 360 and Xbox One OG games, what a boost will do will be something like:
- Really old gamaes or non-demanding games = resolution boost and/or frame rate doubles from 30 to 60
- Relatively recent games or open world games (demanding) = resolution boost and stable 30
- Really old gamaes or non-demanding games = resolution boost and/or frame rate doubles from 30 to 60
- Relatively recent games or open world games (demanding) = resolution boost and stable 30
Thirty7ven
Banned
Alex? Well, he only had A bit of eyebrows raised when keeping the RT software based rumours alive and well, but nothing more than that. It was the now famous Discord group bent on ensuring people are not “falling under the PS5 spell” and coordinate.
I understand the plausible deniability angle, good save.
Interesting how you do not say much about John who is also critical about PS and Sony while still being respected as a poster, reviewer, and gamer. Oh yeah, it would hurt your narrative
Are you trying to stir shit or just stalking me? I do not mind you doing either. it is your time you are wasting
Is this true? It was odd how he downplayed SSD as only for faster loadings and dismissing the idea it could affect game design or anything else. I just wrote it off as him being a pixel counter and not a game dev. It is true that he was a big PC guy until the XBX came out and suddenly he was also a console guy, that was a bit off character.
But what you are saying, if true, is pretty out there.
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Shin
Banned
That is all that's there's to be said and does not come as a surprise as it was clear prior to this.
I'd suggest re-watching the coverage since you mentioned his "tone", might be surprised as to what you hear when listening with both ears.
That's my honest suggestion, but from your post(s) I get the impression you're living in la la land, paranoia, assumptions, wild fantasies all in overdrive.
Nickolaidas
Member
Bloodborne (better resolution and anti-aliasing, fast load times)
Witcher 3
X-COM 2
Final Fantasy VII Remake (better textures, SSD fast enough to load them instantly)
Mortal Kombat 11 (instantly loads character skins instead of waiting 3-5 seconds to see them - personal pet peeve of mine for this particular game)
Every open-world game ever
Witcher 3
X-COM 2
Final Fantasy VII Remake (better textures, SSD fast enough to load them instantly)
Mortal Kombat 11 (instantly loads character skins instead of waiting 3-5 seconds to see them - personal pet peeve of mine for this particular game)
Every open-world game ever
Fake
Member
Just read the thread from the start...
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Here's hoping.
The only games/genres that still haven't been boosted to 60 fps are large open world games, and Sony SP games.
Nickolaidas
Member
Says you.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Not sure you are even bothering to read what I say beyond fishing for things to start insulting me with, anyways it is your time you are spending... fill your boots
.I have watched the coverage pre Xbox One, pre PS4 Pro, pre Xbox One X, pre XSX, etc...
Projection much
? Not sure why you are being this aggressive and insulting... maybe you are trying to show the rational behaviour of a non delusional calm person non in overdrive and not a fanboy of a different camp hell bent to destroy any discussion that puts into question the compete superiority of their console box in any and all scenario?!
LordOfChaos
Member
"locked"? It has very notorious frame pacing issues to this day. PS4 Pro boost mode did help a bit, so even more boost should help more, and unlocking DS3s framerate on PC I think eliminated the problem so their issue is something to do with the FPS limiter.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-bloodborne-performance-analysis
LordOfChaos
Member
PS4 mode and Pro level patches are a given, devs are also allowed to patch beyond the Pro level to take advantage of the PS5 natively on PS4 titles.
AceofJakes
Member
I just want some clarity on BC, how it will work and what games will/won't be compatible from the start. Until then we'll constantly get these rather negative, fingers crossed and hope for best videos from YouTube.
Their inability to really explain it apart from their updated blog post really doesn't fill me with confidence. Let's hope whenever this thing is revealed they can explain it better.
Their inability to really explain it apart from their updated blog post really doesn't fill me with confidence. Let's hope whenever this thing is revealed they can explain it better.
thelastword
Banned
Some people are really underestimating Sony here after all they have shown over the years......MS has never had a better OS in the console space.....who gave us shareplay, share button/media features, live with PlayStation, twitch/ustream functionality on day 1, then we also had useful features like communities, lots of info on your titles including patch updates, fast installs and the list goes on.....People are also forgetting that the PS2 classics got improved rez and framerates, I have lots of them including rise of the Kasai, the star wars games etc......Sony is at the heights of it, OS and software related, so I think their OS features will be even more robust next gen since they are offering so much high end parts in their hardware...
The only console with widespread supersampling is the PS4, you also have the option to disable SS and get better framerates at 1080p. A feature which Leadbetter tries to knock on every occasion, anytime he gets a chance, you mean it's too much work to click two buttons to set your PS4 OS to 1080P and get better frames, and this guys covers PC gaming, the hypocrisy......Personally as far as BC is concerned, I think Sony will offer PS2/PS3 BC at the OS level.....Personally I think Sony should put an emulator out there for older PS titles, but I think they should sell it at $100, put your money where your mouth is and support the cause, place your disc in for the majority of the old catalog and you can choose resolution up to 4k, 60/30fps, AA/AF, improved textures/classic graphics and trophies......Personally, I dont think it's worth it, but knowing Sony, if they're doing something they're going all out......That's why I don't understand Leadbetter's pessimism and confusion. When Sony did BC on PS2 and PS3 they did 100% BC, they were the pioneers on console crossplay too.....If it's half ass, drip feed BC they wont do it at all, just like they didn't this gen, because there's no way in hell PS4 is emulating Cell and PS3 code...Sony is doing PS4 BC next gen, I have no doubt it will be excellent, the faster SSD will help tremendously there as well....
I'm more stoked for the new OS features we see on PS5, what we don't know yet.....That create button alone looks like it has lots under the hood......Guys like Kingthrash can make a pretty slick video in quicktime with PS4's sharefactory, there's a lot Sony is going to bring to PS5 at the OS side.....Games and features is where they will excel, I imagine even movies, movies in VR, sound in VR, VR games, cam features built into their OS for gaming, perhaps their own streaming service like twitch built into the OS......They going big on everything it seems including PSN and a boost for PSNOW, so I think they have so much to unveil still to still any blip the competition makes on the radar.......They are just keeping all the artillery close to their chest......Personally, I think the console design and OS features will break the internet when unveiled, the DUAL SENSE was just the precursor.
The only console with widespread supersampling is the PS4, you also have the option to disable SS and get better framerates at 1080p. A feature which Leadbetter tries to knock on every occasion, anytime he gets a chance, you mean it's too much work to click two buttons to set your PS4 OS to 1080P and get better frames, and this guys covers PC gaming, the hypocrisy......Personally as far as BC is concerned, I think Sony will offer PS2/PS3 BC at the OS level.....Personally I think Sony should put an emulator out there for older PS titles, but I think they should sell it at $100, put your money where your mouth is and support the cause, place your disc in for the majority of the old catalog and you can choose resolution up to 4k, 60/30fps, AA/AF, improved textures/classic graphics and trophies......Personally, I dont think it's worth it, but knowing Sony, if they're doing something they're going all out......That's why I don't understand Leadbetter's pessimism and confusion. When Sony did BC on PS2 and PS3 they did 100% BC, they were the pioneers on console crossplay too.....If it's half ass, drip feed BC they wont do it at all, just like they didn't this gen, because there's no way in hell PS4 is emulating Cell and PS3 code...Sony is doing PS4 BC next gen, I have no doubt it will be excellent, the faster SSD will help tremendously there as well....
I'm more stoked for the new OS features we see on PS5, what we don't know yet.....That create button alone looks like it has lots under the hood......Guys like Kingthrash can make a pretty slick video in quicktime with PS4's sharefactory, there's a lot Sony is going to bring to PS5 at the OS side.....Games and features is where they will excel, I imagine even movies, movies in VR, sound in VR, VR games, cam features built into their OS for gaming, perhaps their own streaming service like twitch built into the OS......They going big on everything it seems including PSN and a boost for PSNOW, so I think they have so much to unveil still to still any blip the competition makes on the radar.......They are just keeping all the artillery close to their chest......Personally, I think the console design and OS features will break the internet when unveiled, the DUAL SENSE was just the precursor.