demigod
Member
So now you think it’ll be close to a 7800xt, weird how you never mentioned that before until now.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
DF x IGN closest GPU to PS5 pro is an RTX 4070
- Thread starter Bernoulli
- Start date
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Are we seeing the same thing? The reflections on the Pro are a lot grainier and lower res.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
The IQ is ultra crap, especially on the 4090 shot.Another Hogwart RT
PS5 base
RTX 4090 moded ini
Is PS5 pro have additional RT?
GHG
Member
It becomes clearer and clearer by the day who is influenced by a controlled narrative and who isn't. Quite hilarious to watch these people own themselves in real-time.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
It looks like more detail is being reflected in the Pro shot. And I would expect a grainy reflection considering it is tempered glass that is being reflected. Notice how base PS5 has less "grainy" look to reflection compared to Pro as well. I could be wrong but this is just how it comes off to me.
Wolzard
Neo Member
Yes you can, games are already made to handle multiple CPUs on PC. This is not a problem, the compiler solves this.
The issue of not upgrading the CPU is simple: cost.
It would be more expensive to change the CPU and it would require other modifications to the motherboard, so a nextgen console would be better. Later Ryzens take up more space on the die, have a larger cache, and have different structures.
Then they prefer to spend the space on the GPU, because the average gamer prefers graphics, or at least, you would supposedly have something that sells more. But given the current discussion, perhaps they were mistaken or when the project was made, the vision was different. The idea was to expose the capabilities of Ray tracing and upscaling with AI.
I assume that many would complain about a PS5 Pro with a strong CPU and little GPU upgrade.
That's why I think this midgen is a waste of time.
It would need to have the same angle in the images, as this directly influences the appearance of the reflections.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
We'll see, but that's really not what I see. The reflections are much lower res on the Pro's shots. The objects aren't more detailed either because you can barely make them out.
The PC screenshot looks way better to me.
ap_puff
Member
There's really nothing about nvidia's raytracing that's magic that AMD couldn't do. They were just being stubborn and cheap like always. The real magic nvidia has is their hardware-accelerated ML upscaling. It remains to be seen whether Sony's version will be comparable, we need more than a few curated comparisons given to media to determine. But if it's anywhere close it is a massive win for console.
GHG
Member
I recallGaiff saying this yesterday when folks were comparing the GPU to AMD cards. That's an impressive feature set. Starting to feel this thing isn't as overpriced as many of us (very much myself included) were thinking.
I'm still at the point where I need to see some games that justify the purchase of this thing.
Most of the games they showed off already being available on PC (or scheduled to be coming soon) really muddies the water for someone with a machine with a higher spec than a 4070. There was no such problem when they introduced the PS4 Pro because the value proposition was clear - it was the best way to play games exclusive to playstation consoles at the time, there was no question about it.
This time round however, because of how slow they have been to get new next gen games to market this generation, it's a particularly hard sell for someone in my position.
Show me the motherfucking games. I'm not buying this just to play Astro Bot with PSSR.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
From where is that PC screenshot?We'll see, but that's really not what I see. The reflections are much lower res on the Pro's shots. The objects aren't more detailed either because you can barely make them out.
The PC screenshot looks way better to me.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
But the 4070 is easily way beyond 3 times the RT of the PS5. The RDNA 3 cards are roughly twice the RT performance of the RDNA 2 cards and they struggle to match ampere in heavy rayvtracing settings.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Just quoted SolidQ’s post and cropped it.
ap_puff
Member
I don't think that's realistic, maybe there might be a couple of outliers where the PC version is unoptimized but I doubt it holds outside of that.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Oh, the first and second. But the angle is still different in both.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
How can it be a waste of time if it gives a better IQ and doubles the framerate? Wasn't that exactly what the previous mid-gen consoles did?
Even the AI stuff isn't special. You just need to have actual AI hardware to run it. Ai is just matrix code. Anything with a matrix accelerator can do it. And it's quantifiable the same way raster ops are. AMD are just retards.
As crazy as this may sound, Sony is poised to be better at AI reconstruction than Nvidia... especially if you look at their history.
Insanemaelstrom
Member
Will also add that the same cpu in console ,versus in pc, will almost always perform better. Consoles are limited in what they can do, so you can have lower instruction sets and lcan make the cpu far more customised. Not to mention that windows in general is a heavy layer and can cause slow downs. Console OS's are generally Unix based and extremely light weight, which allows more of the cpu resources to be focused on gaming tasks
SKYF@ll
Member
ap_puff
Member
The hard part is training the model, it's no secret that nvidia spent a LOT of effort to improve DLSS, just look at the early versions vs. now.
twilo99
Gold Member
I think you can build a PC that can deliver similar performance to the PS5 pro with what is available for sale currently for around $1000 and there are multiple ways you can achieve this. The 7700xt paired with a modern CPU should, in my opinion, get within margin of error compared to the latest console.
Last edited:
twilo99
Gold Member
What compatibility? It's all x86
Skifi28
Member
If you ignore RT performance and AI reconstruction sure, but then you're not really within margin of error as you're missing very important features.
twilo99
Gold Member
I think we are going to find out very soon what those features are worth..
I could be wrong and the PS5 pro can outperform PCs that are worth more than $1000, but I doubt that very much.
ItJustWorks
Neo Member
How is base ps5 a 4060 level when ps5 came out around when the 2 series was still out?
I swear gamers kind of overstate console power and understate PC GPU power.
I swear gamers kind of overstate console power and understate PC GPU power.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
ItJustWorks
Neo Member
Isn't it utilizing resolution rendering techniques? It's not going to run that raw native res.
Last edited:
ItJustWorks
Neo Member
Yeah but I don't think it's at a base ps5 level lol
I guarantee it handles RT better than a base ps5 would. And could render cyberpunk with higher setting than a ps5 would.
Lagspike_exe
Member
No. 7700XT has terrible RTRT and is limited to FSR.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Rich says outside of RT and upscaling. It's really not that far above the PS5. Maybe around 10% faster in rasterization.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
But it is 2 times the RT of the 6700xt and PS5 Pro is 2-3 times the RT of PS5.
darrylgorn
Member
Sounds about right. I personally don't care for anything related to Sony, but in terms of value, PS5 Pro is not overpriced.
But that's from a comparative hardware perspective. If the market doesn't bite, it speaks to a larger dilemma about whether or not there's any demand for powerful hardware.
But that's from a comparative hardware perspective. If the market doesn't bite, it speaks to a larger dilemma about whether or not there's any demand for powerful hardware.
Last edited:
Skifi28
Member
Neither is a 7700xt going to be running native 4k in most cases. But you'll be stuck with FSR2 instead. I think AI reconstruction has proven itself in the PC space, to the point I'm not sure why it's being ignored or downplayed when a console suddenly has it.
Last edited:
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Same reason why a 4060 is slower than a 2080Ti.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Ok... you have been throwing this 7700xt around. In anything that remotely uses RT, the PS5pro would run circles around it. And in anything that use reconstruction, PSSR would run circles around it. The closest thing on the market GPU wise to the PS5pro, would be the 4070 and an argument can even be made for the super.
The 7700XT is just the wrong GPU... dunno what your fixation with it is.
Bojji
Member
In theory RDNA3 cards have WMMA instructions that could be used for some upgraded Ai FSR but AMD seems to not care so far.
LOL, what argument? It will be slightly worse in raster than regular 4070 and we know this already based on numbers. RT permanence between RDNA4 and Ada is unknown so far.
7700XT is exactly the GPU you are looking for to match Pro raw raster power but it lacks features and it's worse in RT. How much worse? We don't know so far.
Last edited:
Lagspike_exe
Member
No it's not, it is a bit more than 50% faster at 1440p:
The GPU benchmarks hierarchy 2024: Ten years of graphics card hardware tested and ranked
We've run hundreds of GPU benchmarks on Nvidia, AMD, and Intel graphics cards and ranked them in our comprehensive hierarchy, with over 80 GPUs tested.
Wolzard
Neo Member
Even the PS4 Pro I found to be a waste of engineering time. The only justification for the Pro was the boom in 4K TVs. And even so, the console represented only 15% of the total base.
I think it would be more useful for Sony to prepare a PS6 for 2026 than to release this midgen upgrade. I honestly don't know how the budget for these things is approved. You are selling well, there is no competition, why spend money on something that will give little return?
But coming from a company that gave the green light to Concord and PS Portal, it's not surprising.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
2 times the RT performance doesn't mean 2 times the framerate when using RT.No it's not, it is a bit more than 50% faster at 1440p:
The GPU benchmarks hierarchy 2024: Ten years of graphics card hardware tested and ranked
We've run hundreds of GPU benchmarks on Nvidia, AMD, and Intel graphics cards and ranked them in our comprehensive hierarchy, with over 80 GPUs tested.www.tomshardware.com
Hawking Radiation
Member
No one doubts Cerny.
The problem is Sony/Cerny didn't show off what this was capable of from the get go. We needed a showcase of games of some sort to accompany the hardware reveal to give potential customers a reason to jump into the PS eco system with a Pro or existing users a reason to upgrade from the base model.
Why is the messaging around PS hardware reveals so fucking terrible?
Last edited:
Lagspike_exe
Member
Are you serious?
I recall
This was what I was saying on Wednesday too when somebody compared it to Apple. The price wasn't extraordinarily high for the capability:
Wolzard
Neo Member
Look at the PS5 frametime on all of them. The feeling when playing must be much worse.
But I think you cherry-picked images.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Why wouldn’t he be? He’s right.
Lagspike_exe
Member
What does 2x performance mean if not 2x FPS?
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Sony have a very narrow and specific goal in mind when designing an upgrade system; To run *existing software*, better. Which means improving certain aspects by a certain amount, not simply uprating everything equally. Because it'd be pointless piling on expense when virtually nothing would ever take advantage of it!
Its not like they are looking to ensure no game could ever be CPU-bound again, its about how frequently are frame-rates bound by GPU performance versus CPU performance. And for obvious reasons this skews way in favour of GPU.
The bullet-point would be to run titles at "performance mode" frame-rates whilst looking as good or better than "fidelity mode" graphically. That's all that it needs to do, because they cannot legislate how developers use their system, certainly not retrospectively.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
You seem to misunderstand. The PS5 Pro is 2-3x faster in ray tracing, but no game runs strictly ray tracing. If there were games not running rasterization at all and purely ray tracing, then yes, the Pro would have a frame rate 2-3x as high. As it stands, however, rasterization still takes the bulk of the rendering time, diminishing the massive ray tracing advantage of the PS5 Pro for rendering games which are all hybrid rt+raster.
Same way the RTX 4090 is in general about 30% faster than the 4080, but if you run a pure rt benchmark, it's suddenly 100% faster. However, no such game exists, only demos.