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DF x IGN closest GPU to PS5 pro is an RTX 4070
- Thread starter Bernoulli
- Start date
Lagspike_exe
Member
We will see what Sony meant by 2-3x faster when it launches.
Bojji
Member
That's what many people are incapable of understanding
It means 2x performance in RT, it would mean 2x more fps if game was fully done via ray tracing. Games aren't like that, even ones with Path tracing are combining raster with it and most games just use little RT. So for final performance you need both raster performance, RT performance and how much RT game actually has (% of the frame).
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
It’s already pretty clear lol. 45% in rasterization. 100-200% in ray tracing. Since every workload is hybrid with a bigger chunk done by rasterization, this difference will never translate to 2-3x. Usually more in the range of 70-80%. That’s without PSSR. Throw that in and we’re above 100%.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Lets be practical here.
7700XT - 100%
4070 - 113%
The PS5pro even if we factor in like 60-70GB/s for the CPU, has more bandwidth than both the 7700 and 4070. I would also say more RAM, especially being that consoles are more efficient with their RAM usage, but that's a different matter.
that 13% swing between the 7700XT and the 4070, basically translates to 3-6fps in ratser performance. That puts both GPUs in the same margin when you factor in optimizations. ie. If the game is optimized for AMD GPU, it will beat the 4070 and vice versa in raster.
And then we have the fact that the 7700XT, simply does not have anything to rival PSSR and as far as RT goes, is not as good.
main issue here is that there isn't even a GPU we can see outright that matches the PS5pro, and when considering its feature set, the closest thing to it is the 4070Not the 7700XT. The only argument you can make for the 7700VT is raw raster power... but that's nonsense and highly disingenuous being that the things that really make the PS5pro stand out, has to do with things that the 7700XT lacks.... period.
But I am gonna drop this, when actual benchmarks come, we will see where things stand.
PS6 in 2026? You been living under a rock these last 4 years?
Why would they even do that? So you feel, their money is better spent, resetting the generation prematurely... than building an upgraded version of their current console to allow them to stretch the current gen further by like maybe a year?
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Pretty much what I keep saying.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
2-3x RT performance can best be explained like this.
If your game is running at 30fps, so that's 33ms/frame. And say your RT loads average 9ms of that frame time.
2-3x the RT performance means that on the Pro, that same Rt load will take 3 - 4.5ms instead. Or, you can do 2 to 3 times the RT load in the same 9ms. Or it lets you fit that 3ms of RT load into a 60fps target (16ms/frame)
Eszti
Banned
Rdna 3 is 8% faster than Rdna 2 in RT. Why are people talking about stuff they have absolutely no clue about?
Source: PCGH Germany not some dude on youtube. No a tester who tests gpus since over 20 years professionally.
SolidQ
Member
Bojji
Member
I was looking for benchmarks to prove that you might be wrong but you are right actually, hahaha:
No visible difference between RDNA2-3.
Look at clock difference between 6800 and 7800XT.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yeah, and if he wants frame rates it would be something like this:
PS5: Runs game X at 60fps or 1 frame every 16.67ms
PS5 Pro: Runs game X at 87fps (+45%) or 1 frame every 11.5ms
Let's say when we flip on ray tracing, the PS5 takes an additional 6ms to render the effects. We went from 1 frame every 16.66ms or 60fps to 1 frame every 22.7ms (+6ms) or 44.1fps
The PS5 Pro renders ray tracing 2-3x faster so it takes 1/2 to 1/3rd as much time. Thus, instead of adding 6ms to its rendering time, we'd add 2-3ms. The final result would be 1 frame every 13.5ms (+2ms) for 74.1fps or 1 frame every 14.5ms (+3ms) for 69fps.
The Pro went from delivering 45% more frames to 56-68%. The heavier the ray tracing effects, the bigger the difference.
Rendering time is actually much more useful than frame rates to measure performance but whatever lol.
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Link?
Wolzard
Neo Member
There is no such thing as resetting the generation anymore, not even on PS5 did this happen, the transition from PS4 to here was very subtle, so much so that many players complain about the perception that the console was in fact nextgen.
PS5 in 2026 wouldn't be bad, it would have the same relationship that the PS4 had with the PS5, a subtle transition.
With the PS5 Pro, the PS6 will have a little difficulty justifying itself to players.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
There won’t be a PS6 in 2026. Come on man. Late 2027/early 2028.
Eszti
Banned
As i said PCGH tested in 3-4 (not sure if Ultra wide is in)Resolutions with light and heavy rt benchmarks. My english is not the best but then with mathematics you can count you on point average, it cant get more precise than that. With professionalism you wont find a second time. You can test it for yourself they provide save files for the games and the benchmark run.I was looking for benchmarks to prove that you might be wrong but you are right actually, hahaha:
No visible difference between RDNA2-3.
Look at clock difference between 6800 and 7800XT.
People who watch video where there 6 games, does not tell anything.
Rdna 3 is a heavy disappointment. Its only faster because they upped the cu count enormously on 7900 cards. A rx 6900xt with same Cu count would be just as fast. And in dome games rdna 2 is in fact faster.
7800xt is as fast as 6800xt what do you need more? Its a bit more efficient thats it. Cache is also much more on rdna 2
SolidQ
Member
Wolzard
Neo Member
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Wolzard
Neo Member
I was commenting on the hypothesis of the non-existence of the PS5 Pro. Instead of launching it, they should have adopted a nextgen for 2026.
kevboard
Member
Not exactly the link, but this is common knowledge:
1080p FSR Balanced...
640p with FSR. that's what hell looks like. especially because the quality of such reconstruction methods also scales with framerate as more samples = less noticeable artifacts
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
AMD Radeon RDNA 3 Architecture Overview: Efficiency Is King
AMD has revealed more details about its newly launched RDNA 3 architecture including refinements to the compute unit and how it links chiplets
That it doesn't translate to actual performance gains is why I would be skeptical of this 2-3 x faster ray tracing until it is proven.
If the PS5 pro hits 30 FPS in cyberpunk path tracing at 1080p base resolution I will happily eat crow because that would mean AMD have made some amazing strides in RT.
twilo99
Gold Member
That’s what I’ve been saying, we need to wait for the bench, but my guess is that it will come around 7700/7800xt overall.
You seem to think it will be the 4070 super ballpark, which will be great for gamers, and the price will make a little bit more sense, but I maintain my stance that buying a gaming machine in 2025 that is based on such and CPU architecture is not a good proposition, and that’s putting it lightly.
You are basically at the mercy of your developers to somehow mask the problem, which might happen considering the install base Sony has, but still.. it feels like a purely economic decision.
kevboard
Member
"Along with a new two-stage scheduling algorithm to discard empty ray quads, AMD says RT performance is up by 80% from RDNA 2."AMD Radeon RDNA 3 Architecture Overview: Efficiency Is King
AMD has revealed more details about its newly launched RDNA 3 architecture including refinements to the compute unit and how it links chipletshothardware.com
That it doesn't translate to actual performance gains is why I would be skeptical of this 2-3 x faster ray tracing until it is proven.
If the PS5 pro hits 30 FPS in cyberpunk path tracing at 1080p base resolution I will happily eat crow because that would mean AMD have made some amazing strides in RT.
the Pro has 67% more CUs, which will account for large portion of the increase in RT performance.
Eszti
Banned
Rdna 4 is fixed rdna 3 with no high end offering. You wait for the hammer that is/will be Rdna 5 that will hit like Rdna 2."Along with a new two-stage scheduling algorithm to discard empty ray quads, AMD says RT performance is up by 80% from RDNA 2."AMD Radeon RDNA 3 Architecture Overview: Efficiency Is King
AMD has revealed more details about its newly launched RDNA 3 architecture including refinements to the compute unit and how it links chiplets
That it doesn't translate to actual performance gains is why I would be skeptical of this 2-3 x faster ray tracing until it is proven.
If the PS5 pro hits 30 FPS in cyberpunk path tracing at 1080p base resolution I will happily eat crow because that would mean AMD have made some amazing strides in RT.
Rdna 3 chiplet design(made more problems than anticipated)and ai boom they sacrificed gaming since in ai space you make ten to 20 times the money for 1 card compared to gaming high end.
People should be thankfull nvidia is giving them any gaming chips at all at this point.
Shit will be even more expensive as it already is and people will pay it.
sachos
Member
If the Pro is a 4070 and the PS5 is 4060 then thats 81.25% (58/32) raster improvement. Without taking into account PSSR or RT.
Based on the latest average at 4K by Techpowerup https://www.techpowerup.com/review/xfx-radeon-rx-7900-xtx-magnetic-air/31.html
Based on the latest average at 4K by Techpowerup https://www.techpowerup.com/review/xfx-radeon-rx-7900-xtx-magnetic-air/31.html
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Why should they follow another brand into making stupid decisions?
PS5 Pro is absolutely the right way forward. And this will be proven once it launches and sells like hot cakes.
Efren is G.O.A.T.
Member
I haven't been keeping up with all the gpu benchmarks for a while. How good/bad is my rtx 3080ti versus the PS5 Pro?
Bojji
Member
I bet Sony thought the same about PS Vita and Concord.
Pretty much 35% better than PS5 Pro in raster. Also better in RT and has massive amount of games with DLSS (compared to few titles with PSSR at launch).
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
Nice try, but the logic quickly crumbles when you consider that same 67% boost in CUs is only producing 45% faster rendering. So no, the majority of the RT speed-up is coming from the improved RT hardware.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
supercar car chassis = GPU that renders and displays video???
I mean CPU = engine is an apt comparison but surely there's a better comparison for that
kevboard
Member
that's still 67% more intersection engines or whatever AMD calls them.
this absolutely helps a lot. you can't directly compare the rasterisation performance increases here.
also, yes, the majority comes from the architecture. why does your response read like I claimed something different?
bundylove
Member
Oh....thats a hint!
twilo99
Gold Member
lol
Zen2 and RDNA4 is quite the mismatch, you would never put them together if you were building your own system...
rnlval
Member
RDNA 2 RT core can do BVH4 with 1 triangle.
RDNA 3 RT core can do BVH4 with 1 triangle and early BVH culling.
AMD could have super glued two "BVH4 with 1 triangle" for BVH8 with 2 triangles. RDNA 3+ 60 CU with BVH8 would have about 2X to 3X RT performance against RDNA 2 36 CU with BVH4.
vs
Ampere RT core can do BVH4 with 2 triangles and early BVH culling.
ADA RT core can do BVH4 with 4 triangles and early BVH culling.
NVIDIA GPUs can handle higher saturated RT better than AMD's RT.
AMD's raster was improved since its major problem in the last game console generation i.e. AMD GPU stuck in 64 ROPS from R9-290X to R9 390X to R9 Fury X to Vega 64 to Vega II to RX 5700 XT, hence AMD's async compute/TMU workaround. For PC's RDNA 2 and RDNA 3, AMD improved raster performance which is competitive against NVIDIA's.
PS5 Pro GPU is the closest PC counterpart is RTX 4070.
AMD is behind NVIDIA by 1 generation.
NVIDIA's Blackwell would have its RT core improvements e.g. super glue two ADA RT cores for BVH8 would be a monster.
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Eszti
Banned
interesting how much ryna 3 gained since launch the 4070 is now pathetically close to the 7700xtIf the Pro is a 4070 and the PS5 is 4060 then thats 81.25% (58/32) raster improvement. Without taking into account PSSR or RT.
Based on the latest average at 4K by Techpowerup https://www.techpowerup.com/review/xfx-radeon-rx-7900-xtx-magnetic-air/31.html
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Eszti
Banned
Way more than 1 gen. Wukong Pt the 7900xtx is on rtx 4060 level. (It had ada performance optimization extra but still)
rnlval
Member
ADA RT core can do BVH4 with 4 triangles.
Ampere RT core can do BVH4 with 2 triangles.
RDNA 3 RT core can do BVH4 with 1 triangles.
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sachos
Member
The gap has actually widened. It was 13% at launch and now it is 13.72% (58/51)interesting how much ryna 3 gained since launch the 4070 is now pathetically close to the 7700xt
ASUS Radeon RX 7700 XT TUF Review
ASUS went all-out with the cooling design for the RX 7700 XT TUF. The cooler not only looks and feels great thanks to its all-metal construction, it also has excellent cooling performance, because it's actually identical to the one on the RX 7800 XT TUF. Also included is a dual BIOS feature with...
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Those charts will vary depending on the model and games reviewed. They’re good ballpark estimates but not definitive.The gap has actually widened. It was 13% at launch and now it is 13.72% (58/51)
ASUS Radeon RX 7700 XT TUF Review
ASUS went all-out with the cooling design for the RX 7700 XT TUF. The cooler not only looks and feels great thanks to its all-metal construction, it also has excellent cooling performance, because it's actually identical to the one on the RX 7800 XT TUF. Also included is a dual BIOS feature with...www.techpowerup.com
ItJustWorks
Neo Member
So if I play cyberpunk on the 4060 with high RT on DLSS QUALITY ultra settings the ps5 will be able to render the same frames?
I have a PC with a 3070 stock. It runs cyberpunk ultra with psycho RT on DLSS quality at 40-45 fps at 1440p...will ps5 be able to do the same?
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rnlval
Member
Both RDNA 2 and RDNA 3's RT core can do BVH4 with 1 triangle. RDNA 3's RT core has an early BVH cull feature which is missing on RDNA 2's RT.I was looking for benchmarks to prove that you might be wrong but you are right actually, hahaha:
No visible difference between RDNA2-3.
Look at clock difference between 6800 and 7800XT.
Turing RT core can do BVH4 with 1 triangle.
Ampere RT core can do BVH4 with 2 triangles.
ADA RT core can do BVH4 with 4 triangles.
For Path Tracing, NVIDIA GPUs can handle saturated raytracing better than AMD's. RTX 4080 is 2.6X faster than comparable shader TFLOPS RX 7900 XTX.
In terms of shader TFLOPS and TMU strength, RX 7900 XTX is about RTX 4080 Super. RX 7900 XTX's only ROPS is at RTX 4090 level. RX 7900 XTX is just a mid-high class GPU. Ignore AMD's model name.
AMD never released an AD102 caliber level GPU design i.e. RX 7900 XTX is just mid-higher range with shader compute and TMU strength.
A no-brainer as to why RX 7900 XTX landed on RTX 2080 Ti when both RT core designs have "BVH4 with 1 triangle" capability.
AMD shouldn't treat raytracing as a second-class citizen.
Assume PS5 Pro's BVH8 with 2 triangles RT core., it's just Ampere+ RT core.
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
I understand that I am just criticizing the analogy used
More apt analogy would be like having a large ass from a BBL (gpu) but then having the skinniest legs/thighs known to man... it looks wrong
Slothbeing1209
Member
4070? So why does they use 3070 TI to compare with PS5 Pro?
Lagspike_exe
Member
Because it's DF.
DevilHunterX0
Member
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
And I bet people thought the same about DualSense Edge and PS Portal.
rnlval
Member
It's not a mismatch e.g. Ryzen 7 3700 paired with RTX 4070.
Think about RDNA 3's dual issue with BVH4 with 1 triangle evolving RDNA 3's dual issue with BVH8 with 2 triangles.
PS5's 36 CU x BVH4 with 1 triangle RT core = 144 BVH with 36 triangles.
RX 7800 XT's 60 CU x BVH4 with 1 triangle RT core = 240 BVH with 60 triangles.
PS5 Pro's 60 CU x BVH8 with 2 triangles RT core = 480 BVH with 120 triangles.
480 BVH with 120 triangles is a 3.3X improvement over PS5's 144 BVH with 36 triangles.
-------------------------
RTX 4070 Super's 56 SM x BVH4 with 4 triangles RT core = 224 BVH with 224 triangles.
RTX 4070's 47 SM x BVH4 with 4 triangles RT core = 188 BVH with 188 triangles.
RTX 3080's 68 SM x BVH4 with 2 triangles RT core = 272 BVH with 136 triangles.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Hopefully DF get a console early and they can do some thorough testing on this thing.
I wanna know all the juicy details. Heat, noise, benchmarks etc.
Maybe Steve at gamers nexus will put it through its paces.
I wanna know all the juicy details. Heat, noise, benchmarks etc.
Maybe Steve at gamers nexus will put it through its paces.
Bernoulli
M2 slut
Xbox can easily win the power battle if they release their xbox pro next year just before GTA VI but it has to be priced the same or less wich is impossible