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[seismologist]

You know how certain enemies in that game can "link".

Is FFXI the first RPG to use this? I notice that Front Mission 4 also has "linked"
enemies.
I think it's a good gameplay element. Has this been around for a while or Is it just a Square thing?

 

[dog$]

Didn't Romance of Three Kingdoms I have co-op attacks?

 

[davis]

yeah its a cool design thats why a skilled puller is more important than people think on higher levels if your not careful when pulling you can be the death of your whole party.

 

[seismologist]

The gameplay in FFXI is so underrated. There's alot more involved than people give credit for.

 

[nubbe]

You have never seen linking until you play Everquest

 

[DonasaurusRex]

phantasy star 4 let you combine attacks for one massive attack. Then again that couldnt be helped since it was single player but I would say thats the first one i can remember.

 

[Meier]

You have never seen linking until you play Everquest

I was like what's linking till that guy mentioned it being related to a puller. Seriously, I havent played in years so I dont know the new zones that aggro is rough in, but I doubt FFXI has anything on the days of Lower Guk being the best zone or the frogloks and myconids in Sebilis.

 

[Gattsu25]

when he talks about linking, he means enemies joining forced when they notice another enemy is engaged in combat

a good puller (someone who seeks out a target to bring back to the party) will bring back a single enemy for their group to fight, while a bad puller will often attack an enemy and during his run back to the group will have his enemy link with several others and get the party KILLED




FFXI has combination attacks (called skillchains and magicbursts) but that's a whole different area (dog and dona)

 

[MrCheez]

My memory is super fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure you couldn't do the stuff I'm about to describe in FFXI. It's been a long time since I've played it though, so forgive me if I'm wrong:

Not only is it a goal to single-pull and avoid getting adds in EQ as well, but there are better ways of going about it too. If someone in your group has the spell, you can lull the group of mobs and single pull. 8) You also have enchanters who can crowd control.

Also, in EQ and games like CoH it seemed like you could take on a much larger number of enemies and live, whereas in FFXI if you get too many it's really over before you even start. Fighting 5-10+ things at a time is a good adrenaline-rush. =)

 

[Gattsu25]

everything but the large numbers can be done in FFXI...although I have survived a ~10 monster pull before....though it was very close I would say it was more luck and skill...that is to say...most people would probably never survive a situation like that :b

 

[davis]

when your competing with other partys in hot zones for enenies for max exp points I will try to get them to link on purpose if they are toughs or very toughs(if good party) just to get a experience chain faster. And timing weapon skillchains combos can be huge too, could also mean the death of some party memebers whether you pull them off right or not.

 

[Shouta]

You haven`t seen a link until you`ve been to Castle Zvahl Baileys. Gattsu wasn`t there for it but we went to defeat the Dark Spark and get some loot there and someone aggro`d a demon that was below us. Suffice to say, less than 3 minutes or so later, we had a train of like 25-35 demons on our group of 15 or so. It was crazy. You literally almost aggro the entire early part of the castle if you touch the walls O_O

 

[ManaByte]

when he talks about linking, he means enemies joining forced when they notice another enemy is engaged in combat

a good puller (someone who seeks out a target to bring back to the party) will bring back a single enemy for their group to fight, while a bad puller will often attack an enemy and during his run back to the group will have his enemy link with several others and get the party KILLED


FFXI has combination attacks (called skillchains and magicbursts) but that's a whole different area (dog and dona)

Uh, what you describe has been in MMOs since UO. It is in no way new and FFXI did NOT invent it, and FFXI has nothing on Lower Guk (as mentioned) or Karnor's Castle in EQ.

It's called aggro and social aggro. Not all mobs are social, but those who are will bring friends when attacked.

 

[Spiritreaver]

You haven`t seen a link until you`ve been to Castle Zvahl Baileys. Gattsu wasn`t there for it but we went to defeat the Dark Spark and get some loot there and someone aggro`d a demon that was below us. Suffice to say, less than 3 minutes or so later, we had a train of like 25-35 demons on our group of 15 or so. It was crazy. You literally almost aggro the entire early part of the castle if you touch the walls O_O

This is quite true and it can get even worse when you're the poor Black Mage or Bard who needs a key from deep inside the area. I nearly cried over how long it took me to get people brave enough to go into the center f Baileys and kill higher level demons who were surrounded by even higher level demons just to get a damn key. (Bah, then actually using the key to get the cutscene for AF2 in Castle Zvahl Keep can be rough as well. Ugh, worse AF quest for BLM I think.).

I must say though, I'm NEVER going back there again unless I absolutely have to. That place gave me nightmares with its horrible decor and 50 mob links.

 

[Meier]

Karnor's Castle, good example.. although that was mainly just due to the SHIT pathing in that zone. So awful.

Cant forget Plane of Hate or Plane of Fear either -- not to mention The Gorge of King Xorbb/Runnyeye.. yikes, talk about nasty. Cant even remember the name of the zone with those abjucator's -- just remember me getting a part of the warrior's epic weapon there from the boss. Going through my oooold EQ pics, I've got some funny ones related to those.

 

[Shouta]

The demons sure love to make your comp chug when like 7 of them demon howl all at the same time. It`s a shame I forgot to turn on fraps for that.

 

[tenchir]

I have seen this way before Everquest or any other MMORPGs for that matter. First time I seen(technically read) it is in a MUD(Multi-User-Dungeon) called Toril. I hit a high level orc by accident and ran from it, when I ran out of stamina like 20 screens later and stopped running, the Orc found me along with nearly half the village Orcs.

 

[totoro'd]

Cant forget Plane of Hate or Plane of Fear either -- not to mention The Gorge of King Xorbb/Runnyeye.. yikes, talk about nasty. Cant even remember the name of the zone with those abjucator's -- just remember me getting a part of the warrior's epic weapon there from the boss. Going through my oooold EQ pics, I've got some funny ones related to those.

Chardok. Had to get pieces for both my cleric and enchanter's epic there. Plane of Fear's aggro still sucks bigtime, but they redid Plane of Hate and it's tons better now, aggro range is tiny there now.

 

[Ar_]

Man, maybe I should go fetch some EQ screenshots now.
Anyone remembers Sebilis before the aggro was fixed? MUSHROOMS TRAIN AT UPPER ZONE, when most people were under level 55, ouchies.
Trains of dragons in Wastern Wasters - and even NTOV.
Too may ubercool moments.

In EQ, to pull you had to consider which creatures were social with which, their level in relation to the puller, pets, roamers, pathing, teleporting, line of sight, chase radius, and a huge variety of skills that could be used - in obvious or "creative" ways - to affect the pull.
Never played FFXI, but Ill be really surprised if pulling there has half the complexity of EQ.

 

[seismologist]

well there's also cases where more isn't necessarily better. It's easy to throw a bunch of "stuff" in the game. But if it's not balanced with the gameplay then it just ends up being a mess.

I never played EQ. Is the combat realtime or turn based? You cant really have linking if ithe combat isn't turn based. Otherwise it just turns into enemies with various AI patterns.

 

[3phemeral]

when he talks about linking, he means enemies joining forced when they notice another enemy is engaged in combat

a good puller (someone who seeks out a target to bring back to the party) will bring back a single enemy for their group to fight, while a bad puller will often attack an enemy and during his run back to the group will have his enemy link with several others and get the party KILLED




FFXI has combination attacks (called skillchains and magicbursts) but that's a whole different area (dog and dona)

I saw this yesterday on FF11 actually. I was wondering around east San d'Orian when a TaruTaru had like, 15 orcs (grappler, mesmerizer, fodder), umpteeth amount of wild rabbit/forest hares and a few scarab beatles and bats chasing after him. I had no idea what he was doing so I just followed him to the gate and had a nice XP gain ^_^ I didn't realize he was pulling because I had no idea what it was until recently (only been playing for 3 days). No one died, but I've been in a few groups that were just too damned ambitious and ended up killing the entire party because they thought we could handle an orcissh stonelauncher *_*

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Ohhh you mean a train of mobs then? haha no eq had it Darkage had it even shadowbane had that .

 

[Ar_]

I dont have good EQ train pics, but better than nothing.... (56k Death touch!)

OGRE WARRIOR FEARS NOTHING! SWARM OF MAN-EATING DRAKES IS NO MATCH!

...until his high-performance ogrish brain is done processing the situation, and remembers he forgot a meat pie in the oven. BE BACK IN A MOMENT, MY FRIEND! =)

Here is a standard fight.
EVERYONE, ASSIST ON THE WORM IN FRONT OF ME!

I think Ill take a look behind the corner. Uhmm... guys... you are ready for a dozen giants, right?

Another standard fight. This involved pulling 8 cleric snakes away from a boss and NOT killing them (fast respawn in the boss rom otherwise).
You just kept them busy while the main raid force dealed with the Big Snake.

Dragon Soup! Each of the 3 dead ones is a boss.

1.. 2.. 3.... ...45... 46... argh I lost count again =(

Soloing 6 mobs at a time, pre PoP, no Dire charm. I loved my enchanter.

No train here, just my pic in shining white regen robe, and one of the best boss encounters pre PoP.

Even with all my hate for timesinks and farming, even with all its flaws, EQ was one of the best gaming experiences ever.
That comes from someone playing on lots of systems since the black and white arcade Space Invaders and Intellivision at home.
Sigh, the nostalgy... I wonder what all the cool guys I knew there are doing now.

 

[Ar_]

.........


MEIER DORF!!

I thought it was strange that no none I knew in EQ reads this board. Then thought about the user name Meier here... checked the names on your screenshots.... ITS YOU =)

 

[Ploid 3.0]

OMG EQ looks ugl.. er big boneded.

 

[Belfast]

Its pretty funny how in every EQ screenshot I see, I can never tell what's going on because it looks like a huge mess of polygons.

 

[Ar_]

Those shots were taken a good 3+ years ago, mosty using the old, low detail character models to avoid framerate issues in raids - so may models and the graphic engine are 5 or 6 years old. What do you expect? =p

There are some sweet looking shots too, but I picked images showing a good number of creatures, not the good looking ones.

EDIT: Without the polygon mess, you would still have a hard time telling whats going on. The game allowed some complex tactics, well beyond a simple Time-The-Highest-Damage-Combo.

 

[jooey]

pac-man had linking before any of those posers!!! bow down!!

 

[ManaByte]

Those shots were taken a good 3+ years ago, mosty using the old, low detail character models to avoid framerate issues in raids - so may models and the graphic engine are 5 or 6 years old. What do you expect? =p

There are some sweet looking shots too, but I picked images showing a good number of creatures, not the good looking ones.

EDIT: Without the polygon mess, you would still have a hard time telling whats going on. The game allowed some complex tactics, well beyond a simple Time-The-Highest-Damage-Combo.

People don't understand that people still play a game with a graphics engine made when the Voodoo 2 was the ultimate top-of-the-line card and the letters "SLI" made fanboys cream their jeans. It is impossible for such a thing to register in the mind of a graphic whore

I haven't been up there, but I hear the Corellian Corvette has some uber nasty (Karnor's style) trains in SWG. And I also hear the Geonosians are pretty nasty as well, but there's too heavy of an Imperial presence on Yavin 4 for me to go check it out at the moment.

 

[kiryogi]

 

[Belfast]

Seriously, I played EQ when it came out. In fact I got it THE DAY it came out and sat through all the shitty server problems and whatnot. The games was passable at the time, but now its just horrible. I realize what technology it was running on, but it didn't look great then and its aged even worse.

 

[Teknopathetic]

there's not much 3D from back then that DID look good.

 

[davis]

We bought one of those Vaios with free Everquest trial a couple years ago and I gave it a shot and I couldn't get into it, I didn't even play it much the free month. Maybe I should have gave it more time I really wanted to like it but just looked bad imo to the point it affected gameplay not as bad as those shots posted though.