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Did he rape her? Or was she lying?

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Feb 5, 2009
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The following is a fictional scenario

  • We’re introduced to Kate standing outside looking for a cab. When a cab does arrive, she names her destination but the driver says he can’t go there. She is groggy and seems light headed, perhaps drunk. She opens the car door anyway and places her bag onto the seat but the driver puts his foot down on the pedal driving a few feet before she is left on the ground by the sudden movement of the vehicle. The driver stops and asks if she’s okay, but overcome with anger, she throws a bottle at his rear window. Driver comes out of the car to confront her – but at that time a police car passes by and stops. When the officer asks what the commotion between the two is, the driver angrily demands her to be thrown in jail for smashing his window. ‘Please. Wait’ she interrupts, holding back tears. ‘I’ve just been raped’.

  • When detectives arrive on the scene, a man comes forward towards them explaining that he lives here and saw the police lights. He explains he knows the girl. When he is told that she says she was raped, he looks uncomfortable and lowers his eyes before reassuringly telling the detective that ‘she’s going to say I did it’. We learn this man is her college professor. We’ll call him David

  • When Kate is taken to hospital, despite her wishes, she expresses concern for David after he is taken away by police. In her account, David was the one who called her and asked to take a look at her artwork. She claims he asked her to come over that night, but he claims that she was free to come by whenever she wanted after getting the call from her asking him to take a look at her work. They both agree that David is only one of six that would eventually grade her work. David meanwhile goes on to recount talking with her and then opening a bottle of wine, saying that he’s learnt his students are more honest about their thoughts on their work in a domestic environment. Kate disputes this – according to her he whilst he invites students generally, he takes particular keen interest in his female students. Both agreed, however, that after drinking the wine they both started to kiss consensually. But they disagree on what happened next. Both claim the other ‘wouldn’t stop – he/she was all over me’. He alleges that whilst he was okay with it, he wasn’t so sure any more after she asked him to be ‘rough’ and ‘hold me down’. Kate corroborates that he was rough with her, but that she did not ask for it and even when she begged him to stop he did not.

  • Whilst being medically inspected, bemused by having to remove all his clothes, David seems comfortable. By contrast, Kate is visibly distressed at having to take her clothes off to a stranger (female doctor). There is evidence of marks on both their bodies and evidence of intercourse. On his lip is an abrasion – to which he claimed she had bitten him. There is another bite mark on his arm and deep scratches on his back; caused by her sexual appetite he alleges. To Kate, these were caused by her struggle to get away from him. They both agree he had his hands around her neck – but he claims it was to stop her attacking him any further. Curiously, at this point of events he recalls losing sexual interest. He adds that she never accused him of rape whilst together, but seemed visibly dejected after he hadn’t asked her to stay over the night. His wife had left him some months ago and he was lonely, he appeals. Kate on the hospital bed, with her eyes staring into nothing, wonders why he had to ‘hurt me and treat me like a piece of garbage’. When the detective questioning her approaches and places her hand on Kate’s (who is looking elsewhere) to comfort her, she flinches in shock at the unexpected physical contact

  • When Kate meets the other detective – the one that was questioning David (let’s call him Mike), she is without means to get back home so Mike offers to take her there. Struggling to walk up the staircase to her apartment, Mike holds her hand for support as he walks her up. She falls back and he grabs her by the chest with both arms (he is slightly behind), and because of that his hands are on her breasts. She turns around and stares into his eyes – she is seemingly attracted to him. Mike on the other hand lowers his gaze realising the awkwardness.

  • It is later discovered that she had two different semen traces on her – she had sex with another man recently, presumably on the same day. Kate denies this, thinking it’s some sort of ‘trick’ to undermine her. However, she will later have to confess to it. She claims she didn't want to admit to it because the guy she is dating, Justin, was 'insanely jealous of David'. She didn't want Justin to know about this entire situation, which is why she hid the fact that she had slept with him before David.

  • David’s attorney piles doubt over Kate’s claims by revealing she has a record of lying. ‘She once told a heart-wrenching story of learning of her grandmothers death – she was so upset she couldn’t walk a straight line when the officer (who pulled her over) asked her to. Her grandmother bailed her the next morning’. The attorney then produces a document with a list of names Kate’s sexual partners.

  • One of the names on that list is Justin. When detectives question him, telling him what had happened to Kate, Justin immediately guesses that David is involved. He claims that David is always sleeping with his female students who ‘line up after class to…inspire…him’, he says. Kate, he adds, couldn’t stop talking about him when she and him (Justin) were dating.

  • That list of names? Turns out it came from Kate’s roommate Jenny. Now, Jenny doesn’t believe for a moment that Kate was raped – she says Kate is known to be wild when she drinks and that she had always had a crush on David. Besides, she adds, David isn’t into rough. Apparently Jenny speaks from experience – she and David were a couple until she found out that he had slept with her roommate. But after he apologized to her, she has forgiven him. David seemingly got back with Jenny to get dirt (that list) on Kate, but she disputes any ulterior motives.

  • The two detectives, one male and one female, fallout in disagreement on whether Kate is being truthful or not. The male detective thinks she is lying whilst the female detective believes her.

  • Kate’s attorney meanwhile is furious. The attorney brings forward Kate’s claim that Mike sexually harassed her client – that he touched her in an inappropriate manner (the staircase incident). Kate previously accuses the detectives of not believing her and dismissing her.

  • Kate begins to get dozens of hate emails. ‘Liar’. ‘Whore’. We learn that it is David’s teenage daughter that sent these messages.

  • David gets fired from his job after word got around the school

  • David’s teenage daughter is suspected to have sent the emails. She is interrogated but he as her parent is allowed to be in the room. Whenever she is asked a question, she looks at her father (who is behind the detective asking the questions) and responds accordingly based on his facial expressions. He is coaching her. He admits that it was Sophie who sent the emails but takes responsibility for them, claiming she saw how upset he was over the ordeal.

  • Kate attempts suicide by a pill overdose and is found unconscious in her bathtub.

  • We then learn that Kate had called the office of one of the detectives and was told the female detective (lets call her Haley) was on her to see her. It is suspected that, as Kate knew she had the sympathy of Haley throughout, she engineered the attempted suicide knowing that Haley would arrive shortly and empathise with her further, interpreting it as evidence of depression. Kate rejects this. She said she was crying in the tub and wanted to take the pills to take away the pain. She breaks down in tears, realising that her credibility is ruined and so wanted to die.

What do you guys think?
 

DR3AM

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HeySeuss

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ArjanN said:
I think you're bad at making thread titles.
And your bad at replying for quoting that wall of text as the third post.

Never mind, you stealth edited.
 
Feb 5, 2009
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Guevara said:
I think this is an episode of Law & Order: SVU

Yep. One of the best. And they ended the episode letting the audience decide, so I'm looking forward to reading people's thoughts on this.

2th said:
this a news story or some hypothetical bullshit?

Fictional.
 

Drazgul

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That's too much of a read, I'm gonna go with the Cole Phelps method and just angrily blame her.
 

Kurdel

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CLEARLY Kate was a drunk attention whore slut. Of course she coudln't have been raped, seeing how loose she is! She likes it so much, how can she not want it?

Oh wait, this is dumb and clearly was written by someone who knows "David". Edit: Ok, fictional scenario. Still, this shows which side you chose.

Also, this may be a case of rape, but not rape rape. Consensual sex that turned bad, rather than an all out sexual attack. This is just Whoopi inspired semantics though...
 

btkadams

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the way she jumped when the detective touched her leg or whatever made it seem like she was in shock from being raped...sooooooo i'm gonna say her raped her.
 

ultim8p00

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Apr 26, 2008
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Kate is one drunk, horny psycho

btkadams said:
the way she jumped when the detective touched her leg or whatever made it seem like she was in shock from being raped...sooooooo i'm gonna say her raped her.

You are so easily played. She is in a safe environment and she already knows this. There's no way she's going to be raped at a police station. She is obviously pretending. Also, he pat her shoulder.

Also she let the detective that helped her be accused of sexual harassment when she very well knew it was an accident and she even wanted him.

David is probably some kind of perv who likes to fuck his students but that's about it. I don't think he raped her.
 

Grizzlyjin

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Two traces of semen doesn't take away her credibility, when you think about it. Putting that fact out there is a tactic to sway your mind towards "Oh, what a whore." But if a wife had sex with her husband and then was raped in the same day...two traces of semen. Bingo bongo.

I'm more tempted to believe David's account might be closer to the truth. For the simple fact that she allowed her attorney to go forward accusing the innocent detective of sexual harassment. Someone who helped you at your most vulnerable moment, and obviously couldn't have planned for you to fall into their arms like that. And you let them be accused of a career tarnishing thing like that. Shows a lack of integrity. David is probably scum who preys on his naive students, but it just doesn't express the same willingness to lie to change your circumstances.
 

dimb

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Why is a professor getting his students drunk and having intercourse with them in the first place?

Going to lean on a rape verdict here.
 

Cat Party

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I don't know who to believe. But the guy is a scum bag even if it was consensual.

EDIT: But I do not think you could get a conviction for sexual assault on these facts. This sounds familiar (I have seen most episodes of SVU over the years). Was it recent?
 

EmCeeGramr

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this is an awfully specific fictional scenario

also do we become cops at the end of this thread or what
 
Feb 5, 2009
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Grizzlyjin said:
Two traces of semen doesn't take away her credibility, when you think about it. Putting that fact out there is a tactic to sway your mind towards "Oh, what a whore." But if a wife had sex with her husband and then was raped in the same day...two traces of semen. Bingo bongo.

I'm more tempted to believe David's account might be closer to the truth. For the simple fact that she allowed her attorney to go forward accusing the innocent detective of sexual harassment. Someone who helped you at your most vulnerable moment, and obviously couldn't have planned for you to fall into their arms like that. And you let them be accused of a career tarnishing thing like that. Shows a lack of integrity. David is probably scum who preys on his naive students, but it just doesn't express the same willingness to lie to change your circumstances.

I agree about the semen. It's not evidence to prove anything, but rather puts doubt in the minds of the audience. Her accusation of Mike, however, can be interpreted in two ways.

1. That she, like many rape victims, is emotionally scarred. She may have genuinely suspected that Mike was attracted to her, and that his hands on her chest was a way to a get cheap feel of her. If you consider that scenario that she was actually raped, its natural for her to become particularly suspect of male physical contact - particularly when it involves her bossom.

2. She is manipulative and wants to get off the one detective that doesn't believe her off the case.

Both scenarios are possible.
 

XANDER CAGE

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I'm confused is this a veiled misogyny thread? A veiled misandry thread? A rousing game of rape-themed Clue!? Help me GAF!
 

Saiyar

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It is later discovered that she had two different semen traces on her – she had sex with another man recently, presumably on the same day. Kate denies this, thinking it’s some sort of ‘trick’ to undermine her.

This makes me think she is lying.

If she had said "yes, I also had sex with X that day" I would belive that he had raped her.
 

Smelly Tramp

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David is a scumbag for praying on the young, but if he really has his female students 'lining up' then why would he need to rape this girl?

No rape.
 

survivor

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I loved this SVU episode. The way the professor made everyone thinks she is unreliable and can't be trusted is brilliant.
 

Baron Aloha

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When Kate meets the other detective – the one that was questioning David (let’s call him Mike), she is without means to get back home so Mike offers to take her there. Struggling to walk up the staircase to her apartment, Mike holds her hand for support as he walks her up. She falls back and he grabs her by the chest with both arms (he is slightly behind), and because of that his hands are on her breasts. She turns around and stares into his eyes – she is seemingly attracted to him. Mike on the other hand lowers his gaze realising the awkwardness.

Kate’s attorney meanwhile is furious. The attorney brings forward Kate’s claim that Mike sexually harassed her client – that he touched her in an inappropriate manner (the staircase incident). Kate previously accuses the detectives of not believing her and dismissing her.

Gonna go with lying based on this. David is scumbag though.
 

Wormdundee

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The evidence we have been given is insufficient to convict David, especially since most of it is eyewitness accounts and "he said she said" comparisons which are fairly worthless.

Given that, David shall be considered innocent until proven guilty and is acquitted.

There's a possibility that it was a rape but there simply isn't enough information for me to make even a guess.
 

Apath

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Why would you wrap your hands around someone's neck to get them off of you?

Smelly Tramp said:
David is a scumbag for praying on the young, but if he really has his female students 'lining up' then why would he need to rape this girl?

No rape.
Maybe she turned him down right before intercourse and he really wanted her.
 
Feb 5, 2009
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Saiyar said:
This makes me think she is lying.

If she had said "yes, I also had sex with X that day" I would belive that he had raped her.

She claims she didn't want to admit to it because the guy she is dating, Justin, was 'insanely jealous of David'. She didn't want Justin to know about this entire situation, which is why she hid the fact that she had slept with him before David.

I'll add that to the OP because its important as its completely plausible
 
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