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Digital console games made $263M in January 63% from PlayStation platforms

Yes...you do.

If I have a game on disc and the developer pushes a patch, I need internet to download it. I can't play until I download it. And if there are parts of the game I can still access without the latest patch, I can do the same if it were digital.

Not exactly true. You can play without internet. Yes you need internet to download a patch, but there's no way that the game will know it needs to be patched unless you're connected to the internet.
 

truth411

Member
Yes...you do.

If I have a game on disc and the developer pushes a patch, I need internet to download it. I can't play until I download it. And if there are parts of the game I can still access without the latest patch, I can do the same if it were digital.

If you don't have internet, yes you can play the game regardless if there is a patch for it or not.
 
Be careful, now.

SuperData Research is trying to sell you their data on their website. Clearly they're going to paint themselves in the best possible light.

But they're well known for providing...estimates. Nothing more...just estimates. They're trying to fill a niche. They are by no means definitive, and they have lots of gaps in their data.


Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony do not provide them with any data, I will tell you that right now.

They go around to publishers and beg for data. If you know anything about that strategy, it's usually quite unsuccessful.

So SuperData's sources are a mix of publicly available tidbits through financial reports and developer PR, a couple of publishers who actually give them data, and a TON of extrapolation to fill in the gaps.

Should be quoted a few times.
 

m@cross

Member
And your physical discs last until they get scratched and break. Hell, I've had lots of instances where my cartridge and disc based games have become unreadable, but absolutely zero instances where I've lost a digital game.



You really don't seem to like digital. That point was kinda pitiful. First at this point every single solitary game for PS4 has a digital version, so the hosting cost is irrelevant. I also seriously hope you don't actually think beaming a game over the internet in any way shape or form compares to the cost of actually burning a disc, packing it and shipping it.

You'd be incorrect; about 75% of my games are digital on my PS4. This is mostly because a lot of them are PS+ games and the rest are games I got with my Sony card credits.

I do prefer physical though, as I know that as long as I take care of it, I can always play it in the future. I can also get bored with it and give it to a friend to try.

Though I am sure it is cheaper to distribute a game digitally, I think you are under-estimating the costs of digital distribution.
 

Fisty

Member
I have a ton of games on my download list for PS3, I don't recall the title, but I do recall at least 1, possibly more games, that I had listed but would not download when I tired to get them back. They where not major games so I didn't follow up.

In addition I have heard others say the same on podcasts such as psnation I believe.

Or simply look at some of the examples posted here http://www.reddit.com/r/PlayStation...i_downloaded_a_game_but_deleted_it_off_of_my/

Now if you don't care if the games work after 5 years, that is your choice, but for some people they still play Nintendo and Sega games, so old games have definite value.

Yes, you may not be able to get that patch any more, but the majority of games are very playable even without patches.

Your example of delisted games link was someone not looking at the download list.

Seriously what PSN games were taken from people who bought them? I need some titles, because I dont know of anything
 

truth411

Member
Not exactly true. You can play without internet. Yes you need internet to download a patch, but there's no way that the game will know it needs to be patched unless you're connected to the internet.

Exactly!!! Years down the road having a physical collection of games is an advantage in this respect. Download list for older systems won't be supported forever.
 
i wish this information could be integrated into NPDs. People see the YOY game sale %s and think the industry is doomed, but we don't see the whole picture
 

AmuroChan

Member
Hmmm so download list and patches will be there forever?

No one can make that guarantee. Just like no one can say that a physical game disc will last forever. Is there any guarantee that your PS3 will even work 20 years from now? And to be completely honest, your concern impacts only a tiny fraction of the gaming population. Most people today would rather re-purchase their PS1 classics digitally than to keep their PS1's hooked up to play their old PS1 discs. People speak with their wallets, and as much as I hate remasters of recent games, people are buying them. So even for recent games on last-gen, people are double-dipping instead of keeping their old systems hooked up.
 
Dying Light made a splash with the digital sales? I'm sure the game is good but I wonder how much of that was due to the GameStop.com error when people were getting it for $20
 
i wish this information could be integrated into NPDs. People see the YOY game sale %s and think the industry is doomed, but we don't see the whole picture

It's not information, it's estimates with lots of algorithms and extrapolation.


And actually, The NPD Group makes their own digital estimates. In my opinion, the estimates that The NPD Group put out are better than SuperData's estimates by a good margin.
 

GnawtyDog

Banned
Be careful, now.

SuperData Research is trying to sell you their data on their website. Clearly they're going to paint themselves in the best possible light.

But they're well known for providing...estimates. Nothing more...just estimates. They're trying to fill a niche. They are by no means definitive, and they have lots of gaps in their data.


Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony do not provide them with any data, I will tell you that right now.

They go around to publishers and beg for data. If you know anything about that strategy, it's usually quite unsuccessful.

So SuperData's sources are a mix of publicly available tidbits through financial reports and developer PR, a couple of publishers who actually give them data, and a TON of extrapolation to fill in the gaps.

Should be on OP.
 

m@cross

Member
Your example of delisted games link was someone not looking at the download list.

Seriously what PSN games were taken from people who bought them? I need some titles, because I dont know of anything

Well I am not going to boot up the PS3 and start clicking the 300+ items on my DL list to find the eact example, so it is my word at best on this, take it for what it is worth.

The linked thread does have numerous examples of the lack of using the download list, but if you read all of it, I believe it also has a few examples that include using the list and it not working.

Also another thread here, guy bought the game and it is no longer on his list. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/927750-playstation-3/68335281

Fact of the matter, download lists and servers can change, have errors, disappear after years. A disc does not and guarantees access to the game for as long as you take care of it and you have a working system. If you don't care about old games, then it is irrelevant to you maybe.
 

truth411

Member
No one can make that guarantee. Just like no one can say that a physical game disc will last forever. Is there any guarantee that your PS3 will even work 20 years from now? And to be completely honest, your concern impacts only a tiny fraction of the gaming population. Most people today would rather re-purchase their PS1 classics digitally than to keep their PS1's hooked up to play their old PS1 discs. People speak with their wallets, and as much as I hate remasters of recent games, people are buying them. So even for recent games on last-gen, people are double-dipping instead of keeping their old systems hooked up.

A bit of a false parallel, if you take care of your discs, your collection will last just fine. Also if yor system dies a physical disc will play on ANY system, it's not tied to that one console's HDD. Remastered games are selective. Any who way off topic.
 

Fisty

Member
Well I am not going to boot up the PS3 and start clicking the 300+ items on my DL list to find the eact example, so it is my word at best on this, take it for what it is worth.

The linked thread does have numerous examples of the lack of using the download list, but if you read all of it, I believe it also has a few examples that include using the list and it not working.

I have over a thousand items on my list, I have definitely not lost anything. I can still even download Qore episodes. MAG beta is still on my list. Turtles in Time can still be downloaded. I have never heard of anything not being able to be downloaded after having purchased it, delisted or not. I need specific items or I cant accept what youre saying.
 

Hiko

Banned
A bit of a false parallel, if you take care of your discs, your collection will last just fine. Also if yor system dies a physical disc will play on ANY system, it's not tied to that one console's HDD. Remastered games are selective. Any who way off topic.

Neither is a digital game.
 

m@cross

Member
I have over a thousand items on my list, I have definitely not lost anything. I can still even download Qore episodes. MAG beta is still on my list. Turtles in Time can still be downloaded. I have never heard of anything not being able to be downloaded after having purchased it, delisted or not. I need specific items or I cant accept what youre saying.

See my edited post.

We probably just have to agree to disagree on this. No worries.
 

Fisty

Member
Neither is a digital game.

mind_blown.gif
 

Fisty

Member
See my edited post.

We probably just have to agree to disagree on this. No worries.

So I dont think anyone else that lost access to Arkham City, like your example. I certainly didnt. So that would have been a glitch, which could have easily been fixed if he still had the receipt. So I guess we'll have to "agree to disagree"
 

Hiko

Banned
Fact of the matter, download lists and servers can change, have errors, disappear after years. A disc does not and guarantees access to the game for as long as you take care of it and you have a working system. If you don't care about old games, then it is irrelevant to you maybe.

Are you this paranoid about downloading apps on your phone? Do you wish they all came on SD cards instead? For better future preservation?

For you to have access to your disc games but permanently lose access to your digital games, the entire console business has to be shut down. And even if it did happen (realistically, when would this even be? 20 years from now? Certainly not anytime soon), this would only affect the 0.01% of the gaming population who still wants to run through the Uncharted 2 campaign for the 78th time.
 

DOWN

Banned
Well until your console dies and the online store no longer has one or more of your games available for download onto the replacement console... but mostly forevermore : )
What are you even talking about? The chances of that happening are so low it would be paranoid to plan around it. Sure, if they take a digital game down and I don't have my download, I guess I've gotta order a disc. That's not a reason to avoid digital.
 

Schryver

Member
All the console games worth playing will be re-re-remastered or likely emulated and released as a 'classic' download anyways unless all consoles disappear and PCs are all we have
 

truth411

Member
Dear Lord. Digital isn't as scary as some of you make it sound

It not, its just some members are not recognizing the some of the inherent advantages physical media has over digital.
Don't get me wrong there are advantages digital has over physical media. Just a combination of pros and cons, depending on who you are, your going to lean on side or the other.
 

FlyinJ

Douchebag. Yes, me.
ps4 HDD doesn't hold many games, you will have to delete some at least most people will and what if the service goes down and you cant download them ever again.

100 terabyte drives will be so cheap before this happens it won't matter in the slightest.
 

m@cross

Member
Are you this paranoid about downloading apps on your phone? Do you wish they all came on SD cards instead? For better future preservation?

For you to have access to your disc games but permanently lose access to your digital games, the entire console business has to be shut down. And even if it did happen (realistically, when would this even be? 20 years from now? Certainly not anytime soon), this would only affect the 0.01% of the gaming population who still wants to run through the Uncharted 2 campaign for the 78th time.

The phone analogy holds no water.

Gaming as a hobby is somewhat special in that some people have collections of old game systems and games. Those people value the security a physical game gives. For individuals who really only care if their games stay available for a generation or two, this situation probably doesn't matter much to them.

A disc is a disc, you buy it, you can play it, period.

A digital game has other factors that MAY prevent this.
Future server support for downloading
Lost access due to an account ban (see the paypal charge back threads on GAF)
Random glitches as reported by others
Account theft
Moving someplace that lacks broadband to rebuild a lost library via download
Other glitches that cause you to suddenly lose numerous games from your library (see my thread last year that took months of phone calls and GAF intervention to get back numerous games I got through plus)

Are some of them uncommon, even rare? Absolutely. They can and do happen though, and for me I'd rather go to a local store and grab the disc for the same price or cheaper (thank you GCU) and be 99+%sure I won't have to risk those rare problems.
 

Zophar

Member
Sony's eating XBL Marketplace's lunch. Amazing how much the roles have switched since the start of last generation.
 

Cynn

Member
You have zero guarantee your PS4 discs will work on the next console either
Yeah, PS5 might not even have a disc drive as far as we know. Digital is just as safe as anything else. I'd be really surprised if the PS5 wasn't x86 like the PS4 though.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Something seems odd here given FIFA isn't listed and makes a lot more than Battlefield and a gazillion times more than Madden.
 

CLEEK

Member
That's not true, you don't need a patch to play disc games. Especially if you don't have internet. I think that's where the misunderstanding is.

Edit: Also don't assume everyone should have the same taste as you, I still play SMB3 and other classical Nintendo Games.

Yeah, me too. Digital versions downloaded from the eShop.
 

Somnia

Member
How reliable is this source? I've never heard of superdata.

Not reliable at all. A lot of guess and estimates with no hard data from almost every major publisher.

Edit: well my bad if they do, was just going by what Aqua and others mentioned on how data is collected.
 

Fisty

Member
The phone analogy holds no water.

Gaming as a hobby is somewhat special in that some people have collections of old game systems and games. Those people value the security a physical game gives. For individuals who really only care if their games stay available for a generation or two, this situation probably doesn't matter much to them.

A disc is a disc, you buy it, you can play it, period.

A digital game has other factors that MAY prevent this.
Future server support for downloading
Lost access due to an account ban (see the paypal charge back threads on GAF)
Random glitches as reported by others
Account theft
Moving someplace that lacks broadband to rebuild a lost library via download
Other glitches that cause you to suddenly lose numerous games from your library (see my thread last year that took months of phone calls and GAF intervention to get back numerous games I got through plus)

Are some of them uncommon, even rare? Absolutely. They can and do happen though, and for me I'd rather go to a local store and grab the disc for the same price or cheaper (thank you GCU) and be 99+%sure I won't have to risk those rare problems.

Rare problems like stepping on a disc? Or rare problems like loss/theft? Or scratches from the disc reader? Honestly the only examples youve given against digital games deal with being uninformed or victim of a glitch, neither of which represent the trend of digital games as a whole.

Your ability to access your digital games wont disappear overnight, much less within the next 15-20 years. You can still download early PSP games. There should be no reason for an account ban either, and it says right in the TOS theres no chargebacks or youll be banned. And obviously you cant download games without internet, yes I guess you have that. This fear-mongering about digital games needs to end, its getting ridiculous.
 

Purest 78

Member
Somethingseems odd here given FIFA isn't listed and makes a lot more than Battlefield and a gazillion times more than Madden.

Madden super bowl addition And bf4 with premium were both $24 I bought them both. So it makes sense they could be where they are on the list.
 
Was kind of hoping this would be for US only so that way we can maybe put the rest NPD not accounting for digital and therefore not giving an accurate depiction of the state of the gaming industry.

Still is it safe to assume $100 million of that would be US only and what that would add to the total revenue in January?

Also, lol for not including Nintendo. Made more ironic because they have been the most forthright about digital sales and seem to have a healthy marketplace.
 

norm9

Member
You have to remember that PSN had a sale where if you pre-ordered GTAV, you got Red Dead Redemption for free, which might have swayed some people to go with that version, which was what I did.
 
CEO from SuperData here.

Yes, we do, in fact, collect hard data. Just like NPD/GfK, but collected from payment service providers instead of physical retailers.

Happy to answer any questions. Meanwhile, see if this helps you understand how we work:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-10-29-so-you-think-video-game-research-sucks

How are payment service providers providing this level of specifics on purchases? I know my credit cards do not have that level of detail, even when a fraud prevention dept contacts me for what may be an abnormal purchase. Plus, on these two consoles, isn't a sizeable portion of digital purchases not done by payment service providers but instead PSN points cards or similar?
 
CEO from SuperData here.

Yes, we do, in fact, collect hard data. Just like NPD/GfK, but collected from payment service providers instead of physical retailers.

Happy to answer any questions. Meanwhile, see if this helps you understand how we work:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-10-29-so-you-think-video-game-research-sucks

What % of this January $263 million data point is sourced directly from POS receipts, and what % of this $263 million figure is sourced from extrapolations, estimates, or algorithms?

The NPD Group directly tracks 90-95% of the physical retail video game console market. What percentage of the digital video game console market do you directly track?


Was kind of hoping this would be for US only so that way we can maybe put the rest NPD not accounting for digital and therefore not giving an accurate depiction of the state of the gaming industry.

Still is it safe to assume $100 million of that would be US only and what that would add to the total revenue in January?

Also, lol for not including Nintendo. Made more ironic because they have been the most forthright about digital sales and seem to have a healthy marketplace.

Their accuracy still remains to be seen.
 

Webhead

Banned
Lol, I remember how the "hardcore gamers" got pissed off at microsoft for promoting the positives of digital games and swore to only buy a ps4 with physical game copies.

Face palm.
 
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