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[Digital Foundry] - Assassin's Creed Valhalla Patch 1.0.4 - PS5 vs Xbox Series X/ Series S - Has Frame-Rate Improved?

DaGwaphics

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So yeah...You've got nothing.

I have what I started with, the fact that as soon as you introduce the next-gen features these systems were built for the PS5 advantage disappears (in reality even being mildly reversed). Even raising resolution to 4K (in AC) appears to even the score for the most part (likely moving the primary GPU bottleneck from rasterization to bandwidth). I'm not a crazed console warrior, these things don't keep me up at night. I expected basically the same performance and that is what we are seeing.
 

DaGwaphics

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Why one one talks about the 4K, quality mode at 30fps ? I do not follow comparison much but I think PS5 seems to have edge in higher fps modes like 120fps, 60fps only.

The different modes will cause the first wall a GPU hits to be different, 8ms pacing is going to really push rasterization where PS5 has a theoretical 20% advantage. Whereas 4k native and RT will move that first bottleneck to bandwidth which seems to even the systems out (maybe giving the XSX an advantage - slight). The systems are probably the closest to being twins than any two consoles ever have been and yet the war rages on.
 
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Larlight

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This is the 2nd time I've seen the PS5 have higher resolution but a less consistent framerate. The first was Dirt 5 120hz mode. So I can be clear, drops in framerate are OK as long as it has higher resolution or does smooth performance matter more? Sometimes it seems like the goals shift depending on which system we are talking about.

The only goal shifting is coming from the Xbox fans who kept claiming the power narrative for months and saying there would be a huge performance delta between the 2 consoles. Now there’s nothing but excuses after excuses. You think people just forgot about the 9 tf, RDNA 1, overheating, last minute overclocking FUD they were spreading about the PS5?
 

Bogroll

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I wonder how much of this you actually think is true or what is just basic message board posturing? The need to win at conversation at the cost of actual discussion. So gross. You guys are toxic to the core and make the experience here so much worse than it has to be.
First, the narrative goes from native 4k60 for the series X version and upscaled 4k60 for the PS5 version of AC Valhalla. Xbox fanboys gloating until we find out they’re both upscaled. Then, the PS5 version runs better than the Series X version and we blame the tools. Now the bar has gone down so much that we’re trying to ignore the fact the Series X Version has to drop down to near PS4 level resolution to perform as well as the PS5 version. Here we see you trying to make up some arbitrary meaning to performance mode to justify the lower resolution of the Series X version. A far cry from the native 4k resolution you were touting huh? To top it off, you’re still wrong! The PS5 version still has higher framerate performance than the Series X version according to Digital Foundry. Did I get the timeline right?
Seriously. What part of there latest video did they say this ?
 

Bogroll

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Alex: yeah, yeah, ahahaha, performance i'd say this is in a place that is better than where the Xbox Series X was in the last patch but it's worse than PS5 is now.






Do you not think that it is good that Series S owners are getting the option to choose 60fps regardless your platform of choice ?
 
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Bogroll

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Depends on how you view outperforming (as in rez and not quite as good fr as SX). While I agree overall it is. Doesn't mean it has a higher framerate, I think VGtech stats show that in is latest comparison as SX come out on top regarding FR.
 

Agnostic2020

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Depends on how you view outperforming (as in rez and not quite as good fr as SX). While I agree overall it is. Doesn't mean it has a higher framerate, I think VGtech stats show that in is latest comparison as SX come out on top regarding FR.
Because his total(vg tech) also includes cutscene where ps5 drops to 51 at times after patch (which didn't happen before patch btw) so mean / average gets affected . The gameplay is unchanged and mostly locked 60. Alex says post patch xsx is "almost" as good as ps5. Meaning ps5 frames is still higher during gameplay
 
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Dr Bass

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So how much longer before John at DF quits I wonder? Can't imagine going through that day in and day out.
 

Leyasu

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The worries are that it had to have the floor lowered on the world's most powerful console.
The worries? The only people worrying are the hardcore Sony /Xbox fanboys. Even the moderate fanboys know that this is nothing. Lol
 
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EventHorizon

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I have what I started with, the fact that as soon as you introduce the next-gen features these systems were built for the PS5 advantage disappears (in reality even being mildly reversed). Even raising resolution to 4K (in AC) appears to even the score for the most part (likely moving the primary GPU bottleneck from rasterization to bandwidth). I'm not a crazed console warrior, these things don't keep me up at night. I expected basically the same performance and that is what we are seeing.

You've still got nothing. The ONE example you had to really dig to try to show an XSX advantage turned out to be a PS5 bug. I have no idea what you think you are proving by bringing up AC in high resolution mode since the only thing DF had to say about that was that the XSX had camera stutter during panning shots while the PS5 didn't.

And yes you are a console warrior. I presented the fact that there is very little difference between the XSX and PS5. You are the one who went hunting to try to portray the XSX in the most favorable light. However that portrayal did not give the XSX a clear advantage like you wanted, and even then, your generous viewpoint turned out to be based on a bug. Then instead of updating your view based on new information, you simply doubled down to say again the XSX must have some advantage ...somehow...somewhere... based on absolutely nothing.

I'll repeat again. The XSX and PS5 have nearly identical performance. Any differences in a title will be made up by more aggressively doing dynamic resolution scaling which will be invisible to everyone except pixel counters. Frame rate and resolution simply will not be a key differentiator between the PS5 and XSX. It is possible that this will change later in the gen when advanced features of both consoles will be more fully used, but there is no way to currently evaluate how this will pan out since no games are fully using them. We don't even know all the customized features for each console.
 
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VectorVictor

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They applied quick fix without doing any optimisation. Reducing vertical resolution in selected areas where console was dropping frames.

Which aligns with two things we know—that the dev tools for the XSX aren’t up to snuff yet, and that UbiSoft is garbage when it comes to programming games.
 

Bogroll

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Because his total(vg tech) also includes cutscene where ps5 drops to 51 at times after patch (which didn't happen before patch btw) so mean / average gets affected . The gameplay is unchanged and mostly locked 60. Alex says post patch xsx is "almost" as good as ps5. Meaning ps5 frames is still higher during gameplay
Ok that's fair enough I accept that but you know people on here will use that overall comparison with cut scenes to count as a win (not saying you do or don't). So a comparison with stats is needed where there is no cut scenes because from what I remember I don't think DF compared PS5 v SX gameplay next to each other in the latest patch.

And btw that what Alex says doesn't mean higher fps, it could mean the same but at higher rez or down aframe or 2 but higher rez. Just like in those comparisons Pro v XB1X where X was 1 or 2 frames down against Pro but higher rez so gave their preference to X and people kicked off in the threads saying Pro was better because of the framerate
 
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killatopak

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Why one one talks about the 4K, quality mode at 30fps ? I do not follow comparison much but I think PS5 seems to have edge in higher fps modes like 120fps, 60fps only.
I’m not entirely sure but I think it’s because there’s practically no difference in resolution mode in majority of the face offs. You’ll just get something like Watchdogs which is practically locked 30 at 4k.

Basically there’s no fuel for the console war on res modes 😂
 
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Vae_Victis

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I've started to notice a lot of frame drops now playing in performance mode when in certain towns and stuff. It's jarring. Didn't really have it before the patch but also wasn't this far in the game.. (PS5)
If you have the possibility, delete the whole game and re-download the latest version. A few people were lamenting similar drops in performance on PS5 after the patch, and doing that seems to have fixed it for them. I can't guarantee it will work, but if the performance bothers you and your internet connection can stomach it it's worth a try.
 
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Evilms

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DF (low res) :

XSX in 2112x1188p = 2.509 Million pixels
PS5 in 2560x1440p = 3.686 Million pixels

VG Tech (low res) :

XSX in 1920x1080p = 2.073 Million pixels
PS5 in 2432x1368p = 3.326 Million pixels

The PS5 can render between 47% and 60% more pixels on the same scene according to DF and VG Tech, whereas the XSX was supposed to do that with its 12tf!

 
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DarkMage619

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The only goal shifting is coming from the Xbox fans who kept claiming the power narrative for months and saying there would be a huge performance delta between the 2 consoles. Now there’s nothing but excuses after excuses. You think people just forgot about the 9 tf, RDNA 1, overheating, last minute overclocking FUD they were spreading about the PS5?
These the Xbox fans Sony fans here scour Twitter for to have an argument with? There was PLENTY of FUD as you say about the Xbox as well overheating and smoking being two examples. There are no victims. If you said all that to say that resolution trumps performance I'll keep that in mind on the next comparison.
 
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Xsx now runs min res 1180p vs min res 1440p on ps5

Both are almost locked 60

Ps5 performance is unchanged. Only slightly more drops in opening cutsvene . But gameplay is exactly same as before

So I have a question here, is the DRS far more aggressive in this new patch? Did the game at a much better 4K output with far less aggressive DRS pre patch on PS5 and XSX?
 

Agnostic2020

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So I have a question here, is the DRS far more aggressive in this new patch? Did the game at a much better 4K output with far less aggressive DRS pre patch on PS5 and XSX?
They made the drs aggressive for xsx . Now minimum resolution is 1080p (vg tech) or 1180p (DF) down from 1440p. Ps5 minimum res didn't change . Its still 1440p like before the patch .
 
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Leenzeh

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eh, XSX runs now at a much higher and more consistent FPS and a higher average FPS. How is PS5 better? Lol
The resolution difference can’t be noticed anyways, since it’s very rare and most of the time the same.
What you notice however if you have a higher FPS.



Keep up? It runs the game at higher FPS

suddenly FPS don’t matter. Only RES:

This scene in particular shows PS5 rendering 47% more pixels with only a 15% performance penalty compared to XSX, that's a clear win for the Sony console and I can't see how the argument could be changed to favor the Xbox here.
 

Captain Hero

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They applied quick fix without doing any optimisation. Reducing vertical resolution in selected areas where console was dropping frames.

Yup ... They did optimize XSX version in this patch by lowering the resolution to 1188p so they get rid of the screen tearing and to get stable 60fps. Tbh if you want to feel nextgen games just look away from Ubi games and you will be good.
 

Agnostic2020

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This scene in particular shows PS5 rendering 47% more pixels with only a 15% performance penalty compared to XSX, that's a clear win for the Sony console and I can't see how the argument could be changed to favor the Xbox here.
Its a cutscene to begin with. Gameplay ps5 is almost locked 60
 
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thelastword

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This is the 2nd time I've seen the PS5 have higher resolution but a less consistent framerate. The first was Dirt 5 120hz mode. So I can be clear, drops in framerate are OK as long as it has higher resolution or does smooth performance matter more? Sometimes it seems like the goals shift depending on which system we are talking about.
No you did not see that. DF never showed the framerate of the XBOX Series X version in the 120Hz mode vs the PS5, John said he could not capture it, he just said it performed better, he never gave receipts......

What is strange is that Thomas Morgan was able to capture 120hz footage just fine with the preview code in contrast to John, so curious :unsure:, and even then the XBOX fell to the 90's, and don't forget the Series X version is several leagues lower in quality in that mode......You realize after all the patches, we have not received any Faceoff updates on these games, even what they complained about in 120hz DMC5 mode was fixed on PS5, but they never showed a video showing the update......

So please refrain from making your own fake reality or stating things which never happened....The videos are there, you really should not be untruthful about things that can clearly be debunked.....




-----------------------
Otoh, I don't trust DF on this Valhalla patch.....The PS5 is verifiably running worse where it did not before, if it happens in cutscenes it happens in gameplay as shown by Vgtech, so yes Ubisoft did touch the PS5 version of the game.....PS5 is tearing more in places it did not before too.....DF is quick to say "it's all fine, both versions are fine", but clearly the PS5 version even if it still performs fine definitely performed a bit better before....

Also, people have to understand DF is not as thorough as Vgtech, the 1080p lower bounds on Series X is proven via a screenshot in the VGtechs receipts page if you care to pixel count....No one is saying series X is always at 1080p, but it definitely falls to that on min rez.....DF's rez has always been higher overall than Vgtech, they are not as thorough or as skilled in counting rez or rez through rendering techniques. Never forget their big mistake on Sea of thieves and DF not being able to know what was going on with Anthem's resolution....Vgtech was right on day 1, where DF had to course correct after.....It happened a million times last gen, Vgtech always won on pure stats and receipts (rez and framerate, native vs CB, pointing out issues and bugs,checking 1080p modes in last gen games for more consistent framerate instead of complaining that it's a bother to tick 1080p in the PS4 video settings menu).....Vgtech is thorough, they have never been wrong on these things...on stats and rez...
 

Rikkori

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I think the difference in Valhalla is down to how the game is made & what it needs from a GPU. If you look at RDNA 2 vs Ampere you can see the AMD cards wipe the floor here with RTX (which are compute heavy, wide-design GPUs) and it's a mirroring of PS5 (fast clocks, lower CUs) vs XSX (lower clocks, more CUs).

The irony here is that AC:V is still on an engine that was overall made in collaboration with Nvidia many years ago when they were doing the exact opposite of now (so fast cards but not heavy on compute), and so was AMD, but the two have switched positions this generation. Kinda funny to see it bite them in the butt now, a bit of poetic justice if you will. That's just by the by.

I don't think you can draw any conclusions from this, as Ubi overall is only going to be on new next-gen engines starting with the next slate of games (so AC: Rome, Far Cry 7, new Ghost Recon, Avatar, etc.).
 
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TLZ

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I guess I was wrong. It did look like they messed up the PS5 version where in certain scenes where it barely dropped fps it is dropping to mid 50s. I'm still baffled that XSX has to drop resolution lower than PS5 as they are quiet close in performance.

Still impressed by this generation launch games as they are generally better than last gen.
Xsx now runs min res 1180p vs min res 1440p on ps5

Both are almost locked 60

Ps5 performance is unchanged. Only slightly more drops in opening cutsvene . But gameplay is exactly same as before
Series X resolution had to be dropped to match PS5 performance

Ps5 is pushing 45% more pixels at same frame. This is no parity lol
But I don't understand this. Why?


eh, XSX runs now at a much higher and more consistent FPS and a higher average FPS. How is PS5 better? Lol
The resolution difference can’t be noticed anyways, since it’s very rare and most of the time the same.
What you notice however if you have a higher FPS.
With the One X the resolution mattered all the time, but now it doesn't, right?

I can also do this and post an image of the PS5 with higher FPS. You just pick a moment where one's doing better and post as proof. Don't do this.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Initial cut-scene on PS5 now has worse performance than it was at launch, otherwise mostly identical.

On Xbox Series X:
-The lowest resolution found was 2112x1188p in that torch section, but it's now locked at 60fps
-2304x1296p instead of 2560x1440p in the hut for stable 60fps
-Runs at a lower resolution than PS5 (the PS5 bottoms out at 1440p)

The quality mode is native 4K on Series X and PS5. No resolution drops were noticed, 30fps capped
-Camera angle change stutters are still present
-Cut-scene camera stutters have not been fixed either on Microsoft consoles & PC

Performance Mode (60fps) on Xbox Series S:
-Resolution generally around 720p, sometimes slightly above 800p
-Frame-rate is better than pre-patch Series X but worse than PS5

 

Klayzer

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The only goal shifting is coming from the Xbox fans who kept claiming the power narrative for months and saying there would be a huge performance delta between the 2 consoles. Now there’s nothing but excuses after excuses. You think people just forgot about the 9 tf, RDNA 1, overheating, last minute overclocking FUD they were spreading about the PS5?
The real kicker for me is, they conviently forget all crap they were spewing all year with the power memes and such. Now, all of a sudden, power is not as important as (insert new goalposts) blank, blank.

Having said that, im still excited about their future exclusives,
-Fable (Playground always delivers)
-New Obsidian RPG
-the Ori devs next project
-Rare's next game

I just hope the Series X can stay in the game, and not get washed over by the tsunami that is the PS5. Microsoft could have alleviated a lot of criticism, if they would've had at least one of their new exclusives ready at launch.

It would have showcased what the Series X was capable of right out the gate.
 

regawdless

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PS5 is a beast I guess.

One thought that came to my mind, because I had such a situation at work:

I can totally imagine the Series S hurting Series X. They share the same dev platform and are both MS "next gen" consoles. Might sound stupid, but I have seen this stuff happen in real life. One team for MS next gen optimization, one team for PS5 optimization. Same resources, meaning people, time, budget. Only one console to code for on Sony side, two on MS side.

Pure speculation of course. I would love to see if companies who develop games for 9 platforms simultaneously, actually allocate more people and time for Series S and X compared to PS5.
 

megreotsugua

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I just hope the Series X can stay in the game, and not get washed over by the tsunami that is the PS5.

MS brought this mess to themselves. They were feeding their rabid fanboys with lies after lies.

Sony concentrated their messaging on games and not in this bullshit power narrative (although probably they knew they would win this too).

That Crytek graphics engineer Ali Salehi said it early on that releasing teraflops info and techno jargon was a mistake. Matt Hargett, PS5 software engineer, also said it very early that we should let the games do the talking. The conversation should have centered on games from the beginning and not useless metric such as teraflops.

If anything, it's MS stubborn attitude about having superior flops that brought the worst of their fanboys coping with cognitive dissonance and grief.

That fucking Aaron Greenberg should be sacked.
 
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sircaw

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Seems a bit of an overstatement. XSX seems to do just fine in games/game modes that utilize bandwidth intensive next-gen features, this should only be bolstered as the development ecosystem matures.

With that said, you've got two boxes that are the same price (for equivalent units) and will output very similar visuals. I doubt there will be many instances where games will perform differently at all without exaggerated comparisons. Not sure what most were expecting. PS, Sony super fans, you love the results of the AC comparison, but what about those 20+ frames PS5 drops in CoD in RT Mode? :messenger_tears_of_joy:

@ sircaw sircaw delusional much?

i will wait for my apology + expected better from you, your not eastwood +co
 
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The different modes will cause the first wall a GPU hits to be different, 8ms pacing is going to really push rasterization where PS5 has a theoretical 20% advantage. Whereas 4k native and RT will move that first bottleneck to bandwidth which seems to even the systems out (maybe giving the XSX an advantage - slight). The systems are probably the closest to being twins than any two consoles ever have been and yet the war rages on.

I think the RT mode in the XSX is bugged.


NXGamer NXGamer pointed this out in his analysis. It's weird to be honest.
 
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