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Digital Foundry - Do we actually need a PS5 Pro?
- Thread starter kyliethicc
- Start date
- Opinion Analysis
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Just about every industry has annual improvements. Even cars. You'd think something big and bulky made in assembly fashion would be the same exact model for 6 years until a refresh, but even they can get tweaks to interior and performance. Or one year its RWD and next year there's an AWD version.
Samsung and LG come out with new kitchen appliances every year to add to their million fridge line ups. And every PC maker upgrades their models with new parts probably every 6 months. If I was to go to Dell.ca and see what they sell, I bet if I checked again in the fall a bunch of them would be gone and replaced with better models.
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Benniewise de Clown
Banned
"Next-gen" hasn't even really started...
Fredrik
Member
Sigh yeah the total cost for consoles could get kinda ridiculous if you want the best version of everything. I payed roughly $650 for the PS5 and $550 for the XSX, I assume Pro/X variants would cost just as much, which would add up to $2400 total, then I bought extra storage too pushing the total to $2600.
That’s more than my complete current PC with 3800x CPU, 3070Ti Graphics card and NVME disc…
But how do you play the Sony exclusives if you only buy a PC instead?
You wait. Or you don’t.
So… you buy all consoles… and a PC… pushing the totals for a generation up to $5000.
mansoor1980
Gold Member
in 2026
Robb
Gold Member
Maybe, 10% sounds small but I have no idea what it could be. I assume you’re only looking at ‘pro’ models in that case, not Slim (or other versions)? I’m not sure history would be a good indicator in that case since we’ve only had one generation with ‘pro’ models being released.
Although I’m sure there’s a lot more benefits to making a revision for Sony, e.g. making the SOC smaller and being able to produce more units. Not to mention making the entire system smaller so that they can ship more units in the same amount of space.
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sendit
Member
Predicting a PS5 Pro in Q4 2023. This is still quite a long time. Anyone questioning if we need a Pro model is a bit out of touch with reality. Giving developers more power is never a bad thing. Giving people the option to play at a higher fidelity/smoother frame rates is never a bad thing.
Isa
Member
Do we? Probably not. I think the best thing would to just get systems out for sale at a consistent quality and price. And start making games exclusively for current gen tech.
Lately though I've been thinking that with the way the world is going, and the "plans" enacted by the various leaders and such... I think that this new gen is going to be very long in the tooth. I don't mind it so much since it means more games for hardware I own and less preorder headaches. But I think to alleviate some of the market moving on to better options for performance later on we'll see mid-gen hardware upgrades ala Pro and X for those that want it.
I'd wager we're going to experience a potentially worse 2008 market again and with that turmoil coupled with world problems like shortages and conflicts, things will be similar to the PSWii60 era. I hope it doesn't go that route mind, I'll just be happy to play good heartfelt games. I really just want to see developers get the chance to make these great machines shine. I think we haven't seen much of what some really skilled devs can wrangle out of the hardware. I wish somebody would come along and deliver that Naughty Dog moment of "no loading" or incredible animations and such, I want to see real next gen innovation.
Lately though I've been thinking that with the way the world is going, and the "plans" enacted by the various leaders and such... I think that this new gen is going to be very long in the tooth. I don't mind it so much since it means more games for hardware I own and less preorder headaches. But I think to alleviate some of the market moving on to better options for performance later on we'll see mid-gen hardware upgrades ala Pro and X for those that want it.
I'd wager we're going to experience a potentially worse 2008 market again and with that turmoil coupled with world problems like shortages and conflicts, things will be similar to the PSWii60 era. I hope it doesn't go that route mind, I'll just be happy to play good heartfelt games. I really just want to see developers get the chance to make these great machines shine. I think we haven't seen much of what some really skilled devs can wrangle out of the hardware. I wish somebody would come along and deliver that Naughty Dog moment of "no loading" or incredible animations and such, I want to see real next gen innovation.
Pretty sure they are already working on a PlayStation and Xbox upgrade. I bet Sony is pissed that they barely managed to achieve binary TF, Microsoft doesn't want Sony to get the "World's Most Powerful Console" and maybe Microsoft wants to add some of that secret sauce as well.
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ByWatterson
Member
I realized DF had lost me when they were impressed by raytraced shadows, which to me are essentially useless.
Balducci30
Member
There’s been like two exclusive next gen games this generation so far. How the hell do we already need a pro
Rykan
Member
Yes, all these variants are hard to keep up with. You have like..PS4 and then...PS4 pro. Thats two models. very hard to keep up with.
I'm glad PC components like GPU's and CPU's don't have this issue....
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
No, just like it is not weird you breathe today and you keep breathing tomorrow. One size fits all and software being optimised for those specs and making it worth for devs to invest time in learning the HW and the custom software and API’s for it (without thick layers of abstractions necessary to make the PC like diversity in HW specs even manageable… it does not come for free) is the point of the console model. PC is for upgradeable HW, custom boxes/assembly, customiser / modded games, etc… consoles are optimised gaming machines that trade some of the PC benefits for cheaper prices, pushing some new boundaries (gimmicks for some people, but sold in mass so devs to make use of them… Wii Remote would have been yet another random gimmick on PC), smaller boxes, etc… console makes can afford to try to differentiate with customised HW and also try new API’s that are not yet ready for PC wide distribution or can be made because they never need to be available on PC as is (DirectStorage hitting Xbox years before it hits Windows, Sony’s libGCM and their storage I/O stack being optimised for a single platform).
What is desired is not a unicorn taking the best of both, there is no such a thing… what you would get is a monster with the defects of each (think iOS as a gaming platform: locked down SW, no modding, and tons of HW resources that might be used properly years and years into the platform lifecycle).
A lot try to hit the yearly refresh model to avoid letting the prices fall and praying their marketing can convince people that do not need to upgrade to upgrade and afterwards not to be disappointed too much but just enough that they may fall into the same trick with the next model next year.
Silicon manufacturing tech is slowing down, jumps in process tech are getting more expensive and it takes longer and longer to go from one significant step to the next… space people want to afford in their homes for consoles which makes scaling performance by brute force allowing for power consumption to jump higher and higher also not sustainable or feasible (or phones thickness and size) are things customers desires are working to restrict (there was resistance against XSX and especially PS5 due to their size).
Yearly / frequent console HW updates are not going to deliver what you want. HW improvements at a certain power envelope are slowing down more and more which is directly the opposite of what people releasing more and more HW more frequently think would help. Console manufacturer would just use more of their R&D resources in launching more HW than developing the next leap forward.
You can either accept console generations are going to either take longer between each major performance jump to the next (and still enjoy all the other great things about gaming consoles) or you are going to accept higher console prices and/or bigger boxes. You can also buy PC’s…
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
It is just not the console model (and it is a lie to promise a better world by releasing more frequent updates as tech, at a fixed power envelope, is slowing down).
Consoles are not about evil corps they withhold power from devs and gamers: they are about fa promise of fixed platform that 100% of your users have and low level access that makes it possible and worthwhile to use the unique specs within them. You develop on PC or especially mobile and see the fun that HW diversity really gives you.
Looking at Xbox One X and PS4 Pro and the token support they received also does not inspire confidence. It is a good trick to try to prevent people from demanding lower prices though.
ParaSeoul
Member
I have no idea how people have gotten it into their heads that pro models are the norm now.
tvdaXD
Member
Not like that dude, it's mostly for development. More resources are spent on keeping up with all the different versions of one game, and that's just stupid. Because all those resources could be better spent elsewhere.
Meanwhile PC just has one version, one with the highest available settings.
killatopak
Member
I want base PS5 fidelity on PSVR2. PS4 Pro did the same thing for the original PSVR and I expect the same for the new one.
TVexperto
Member
I didn’t know that. Played guardians on console and it looked amazing.
do you have a comparison?
)
The Shepard
Member
We haven't even had any proper next gen games taking advantage of the current systems so not at this time. We're still living one foot in the ps4 era with all the cross gen games we are still getting. Maybe in a few years.
Rykan
Member
...Then have just "One version" and have the other one run at "Highest settings"?
What you're trying to say makes no sense at all.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
For sure more can be done on these consoles than we've seen so far, but anything really ambitious will be 30fps and rather low resolution (like 1440p). We already see that with cross-gen games, where most quality modes are confined to 30fps (albeit usually at higher resolution), and if you want 60fps you're usually giving up both resolution and RT. Add proper next-gen visuals to that, and these consoles will start showing their limits real fast. If we ever want to see next-gen visuals at 60fps we're gonna need consoles with at least twice the GPU power.
Banjo64
cumsessed
They’ll never be high end because the tech will need to be a year or 2 old due to R&D and then the same year they launch new GFX cards will launch.
DukeNukem00
Banned
But until ps4 and this gen they always were high end. These consoles, ps5 and series x are the second weakest consoles in history after ps4, relative to existing hardware on the market. The original Xbox was on the cuttin edge at launch. It was made obsolete in a few months by rapid moving PC hardware, but right at launch it was better than any PC. Xbox 360 was as well. You could not outspec the 360s gpu except with the highest end SLI gpu setup. ps5 being trounced by more than double right at launch by avaialble computer hardware wasnt really a thing before
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Elysion
Banned
I don’t expect ‘pro’ versions (if they are real) before 2024 at the earliest, probably even 2025. In general I expect this generation to last longer than the last, possibly even longer than 7th gen. PS5 and Series X as a baseline will be sufficient for a long time; especially if AMD’s upscaling tech brings significant performance gains to the table. I wouldn’t even be surprised if we see portable versions of current consoles before proper successors come out. 10TF doesn’t sound impossible for portable hardware by 2028 or so.
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TrebleShot
Member
Some incredible short sightedness in this thread.
They aren't coming out tomorrow, this year or even until the end of next year, by then yes, we absolutely will need them.
The current gen barely supports 4k60 which I agree should be the standard, its usually 4k30 or 1440p 60 if we are lucky, so in my opinion yes bring it on lets have them in production and out asap. I think a new console or "refresh" should be released every 2-3 years.
No one is forcing you to upgrade, just like phones.
They aren't coming out tomorrow, this year or even until the end of next year, by then yes, we absolutely will need them.
The current gen barely supports 4k60 which I agree should be the standard, its usually 4k30 or 1440p 60 if we are lucky, so in my opinion yes bring it on lets have them in production and out asap. I think a new console or "refresh" should be released every 2-3 years.
No one is forcing you to upgrade, just like phones.
01011001
Banned
the Xbox 360 literally had hardware in it that wasn't on the PC market for almost a year.
if the console manufacturers work with AMD they totally could get the latest tech sooner than when they hit the market as PC cards.
also, an RTX2080ti which released years before the Xbox SX and PS5 is still way more powerful than either console's GPU... that card released in 2018.
so even if we take into account a certain amount of time needed for R&D a high end console could still compete with powerful PC hardware.
having the GPU power of a 3090ti for example would still be considered high end in 3 years.
and of course don't forget that the GPU tech inside the current consoles launched almost side by side with the PC equivalent cards, meaning Microsoft and Sony could have chosen to make a high end version of their systems and simply use one of the higher end GPU models as the template.
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BlueHawk357
Member
Tbh I was shocked by how little difference PS5 made to PS4 Pro, pretty let down. Wasn’t at all like the PS3 to PS4 jump. Felt more like an iPhone 8 to iPhone XR jump if that makes sense.
A PS5 Pro might be a good thing to make a difference but then, how much has hardware moved on since then? Pretty ok actually but I also feel people would rather a smaller console.
A PS5 Pro might be a good thing to make a difference but then, how much has hardware moved on since then? Pretty ok actually but I also feel people would rather a smaller console.
sendit
Member
I kind of wish we would drop this thought process. It's limiting. Consoles on average hit a ~10 year life cycle. That is not okay.
The PS4 Pro and Xbox One X delivered on the promises, Running games at higher fidelity then the base consoles, did it not? This is the same expectation with the next iteration of the Pro model. Developers still have the same low level access.
tvdaXD
Member
You don't get it, that's fine. Either way, it's wasted resources that should be spent elsewhere.
fran.fernandez
Member
No, barely have seen console full potential yet … don’t make devs lazy
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
First of all, console releases are not the same as console cycles, but much shorter.
Second of all, it is what it is… making large performance jumps is getting more and more difficult (it takes longer and longer / gets more and more expensive to realise them) and the performance jump needs to be greater and greater in order for it to make a visible difference to the games you play (likely even more so when you are brute forcing changes through). Even if people accepted a bigger box for $599 as being the average console price it would only buy you oxygen for a console generation jump. Back to square 1 afterwards.
Even for that kind of token use (adding complexity to their workflow for a fraction of users and without being able to release even a single exclusive game for them) you will need a larger performance jump than what enabled those higher framerate and/or higher resolution patches unless the current consoles had borked / bottlenecked designs that were not easy to “fix”.
People trying to sell you HW with more and more frequent iterative cycles are selling snake oil for now, but hey maybe someone will have a super large breakthrough. Not looking like it for now:
That is designing, not the only cost you will have manufacturing and cooling the chip monsters we desire to see…
Transistors Reach Tipping Point At 3nm
Nanosheets are likeliest option throughout this decade, with CFETs and other exotic structures possible after that.
semiengineering.com
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Snake oil for whom? Consumers?
If so, I wouldnt use the word 'snake oil'. Snake oil imo is something that inherently has no value. More iterative consoles might not have the same level of value as full gen jumps but there is still generally some value there and also a marketing is accurate then there is no issue there.
Tommi84
Member
I'm sorry, what? You complain that you have 3 (THREE) variants in current Gen (PS5/SeriesX/SeriesS), you may have two more (so FIVE in total), but you are glad to mainly play on PC, where there are like thousands of different possibilities?
sendit
Member
First of all, console releases are not the same as console cycles, but much shorter.
Second of all, it is what it is… making large performance jumps is getting more and more difficult (it takes longer and longer / gets more and more expensive to realise them) and the performance jump needs to be greater and greater in order for it to make a visible difference to the games you play (likely even more so when you are brute forcing changes through). Even if people accepted a bigger box for $599 as being the average console price it would only buy you oxygen for a console generation jump. Back to square 1 afterwards.
Even for that kind of token use (adding complexity to their workflow for a fraction of users and without being able to release even a single exclusive game for them) you will need a larger performance jump than what enabled those higher framerate and/or higher resolution patches unless the current consoles had borked / bottlenecked designs that were not easy to “fix”.
People trying to sell you HW with more and more frequent iterative cycles are selling snake oil for now, but hey maybe someone will have a super large breakthrough. Not looking like it for now:
That is designing, not the only cost you will have manufacturing and cooling the chip monsters we desire to see…
Transistors Reach Tipping Point At 3nm
Nanosheets are likeliest option throughout this decade, with CFETs and other exotic structures possible after that.
I beg to differ. 30 vs 60 FPS is not snake oil. 1080p vs 4K is not snake oil. Ray tracing vs cube maps is not snake oil. These are features that more powerful hardware can enable.