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Digital Foundry: Final Fantasy 15: PS4 Pro Gameplay - First Look/Tech Analysis

Harp

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Feb 27, 2013
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Yeah. Can not believe some people don't notice lol. It's pretty much in your face, all the time. But good for them, i guess?

Maybe because it's there all the time and the games feels fine they don't notice it. I played the demo last night. And it was fine.
 

SeeNoWeevil

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Jan 11, 2015
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Showing off screen footage of the game running in HDR, really DF??

HDR on LDR looks terrible. Please stop.
 

dark10x

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Showing off screen footage of the game running in HDR, really DF??

HDR on LDR looks terrible. Please stop.
Yes, really.

Do you have a better idea? I noted very clearly that it couldn't capture the effect but I wanted to show SOMETHING different to keep people watching while discussing HDR.

The only other option is just to show more random gameplay with HDR disabled.

I know some people enjoy off-screen footage here even if it's not accurate.
 

DOWN

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Aug 2, 2011
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Any way to make sure the team knows about the problem?

And is the only difference between Pro and lightweight modes the resolution and pacing?
 

Kenzodielocke

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Dec 24, 2014
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Honestly not buying until the frame pacing is fixed. Sick of it.

Bloodborne is the only exception. Because that game is so much better than any other game released in the last 5 years.
 

Rookhelm

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Apr 5, 2016
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without an FPS counter, how is it possible to discern frame pacing issues from unstable framerate?
 

dark10x

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No, you're right. I'm being a rude ass. Apologies.
It takes a lot to apologize on a message board so, thanks, I do appreciate that!

...but, of course, you're totally correct that you can't really demonstrate HDR content in LDR.

without an FPS counter, how is it possible to discern frame pacing issues from unstable framerate?
Typically, it manifests regardless of what is happening on screen. If you spin the camera at a steady pace, for instance, you'll really see random hiccups despite the fact that nothing on-screen is changing.
 

leeh

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Dec 30, 2014
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As far as I know, the game renders 2x 1600X900 in the checkboard style (so that amount of pixels, but with the appropriate gaps), interpolates the missing points up to 3200X1800, then this is upscaled to 3840X2160.

So it is internally half the resolution of 3200X1800. And since the post processing like motion blur is quarter or half resolution of that interal resolution, it looks really smudgy / pixelated in comparison to the final 3840X2160 output.
Thanks, although I have more questions and failures of understanding.

So it renders at 900p and uses the previous frame to interpolate up to 1800p?

Am I right in saying that isnt bumped from the OG PS4 then? That seems wrong to me. You'd atleast think if they did that they'd increase the resolution of motion blur with the extra head room.

I'm also presuming that checkerboard only works when the resolution you're checkerboarding to is double/quadruple of the base resolution, rather than anything to anything?

With that in mind I would of thought they'd take the 1080p image and checkerboard up to 4k?

I feel like I've got this all wrong.
 

mckmas8808

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May 24, 2005
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Yes, really.

Do you have a better idea? I noted very clearly that it couldn't capture the effect but I wanted to show SOMETHING different to keep people watching while discussing HDR.

The only other option is just to show more random gameplay with HDR disabled.

I know some people enjoy off-screen footage here even if it's not accurate.
Most of us do. Keep doing it. We like it.
 

Elios83

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Jun 30, 2004
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Thanks, although I have more questions and failures of understanding.

So it renders at 900p and uses the previous frame to interpolate up to 1800p?

Am I right in saying that isnt bumped from the OG PS4 then? That seems wrong to me. You'd atleast think if they did that they'd increase the resolution of motion blur with the extra head room.

I'm also presuming that checkerboard only works when the resolution you're checkerboarding to is double/quadruple of the base resolution, rather than anything to anything?

With that in mind I would of thought they'd take the 1080p image and checkerboard up to 4k?

I feel like I've got this all wrong.
Nope.
1800p checkerboard means an internal resolution of 1600*1800 rendered pixels over an alternated checkerboard pattern. The image is reconstructed into a 1800p image first (3200*1800 pixels) and here the checkeboarding technique ends.After that the 1800p image is traditionally upscaled to 2160p (3840*2160).
900p is a resolution of 1600*900 pixels. That means that compared to OG PS4 the Pro runs the game at DOUBLE the internal resolution in the best case (since it's 900p dynamic on the OG PS4).
 

12BoM

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Apr 19, 2015
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Honestly, the HDR off cam footage actually looked more colorful than the original mode. Obviously the lighting effects weren't being captured but i definitely noticed more vibrancy
 

thelastword

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Thanks, although I have more questions and failures of understanding.

So it renders at 900p and uses the previous frame to interpolate up to 1800p?

Am I right in saying that isnt bumped from the OG PS4 then? That seems wrong to me. You'd atleast think if they did that they'd increase the resolution of motion blur with the extra head room.

I'm also presuming that checkerboard only works when the resolution you're checkerboarding to is double/quadruple of the base resolution, rather than anything to anything?

With that in mind I would of thought they'd take the 1080p image and checkerboard up to 4k?

I feel like I've got this all wrong.
Nothing is rendering at 900p on the PRO, that's misinformation.
 

Elios83

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Jun 30, 2004
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I've finally tried the Judgement demo and completed the first missions while running around the open world!

Impressions!

Positives: Pro mode is night and day compared to standard in terms of sharpness and texture detail thanks to anisotropic filter and overall way higher res. In comparison standard PS4 looks like a blurry mess on my TV. Vegetation also looks much better, not so much in terms of quantity but of quality. Hair also look way better but it's still not perfect unfortunately.

Frame pacing issues: it was very evident during the intro cutscene when you have to push your car. In actual gameplay I couldn't notice anything. I hope they can fix it but honestly no big deal to me. Absolutely nothing that could make me decide to play in the other mode.

About HDR implementation....I expected much more given the DF comment.
It's the only example of HDR where the sky isn't massively improved, actually it looks the same. HDR also seems to oversaturate the colors a bit too much for my tastes. Overall it makes lighting feel more natural and less flat but could be better. I don't agree that it is an outstanding implementation based on what I've seen so far.
 

Elios83

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Here's a couple of comparison pics I took. I took HDR off because the FFXV demo saves the screens in HDR format and when not viewed in HDR it looks horribile.

Pro vegatation and mountain detail:



Standard PS4:




Pro anisotropic filter, reflections and ambient occlusion:


Standard PS4:



Someone could make a comparison gif if you want.
 

Elios83

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for now pro is a complete disaster performance wise :(
It really isn't. Besides some judder that I have only noticed in the intro scene it looks and runs really well imo.
Hope they fix the frame pacing thing but it's nothing that really bothers me.
 

xion4360

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for now pro is a complete disaster performance wise :(
not really? frame pacing is something that can be fixed. its already running at a solid 30fps. LQ mode still gives you a very solid framerate above that of the standard PS4. Its a demo not the final product in this case..

as for other pro games with performance problems, I think some of those cases will be patched further.
 

Ishida

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Jun 14, 2013
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not really? frame pacing is something that can be fixed. its already running at a solid 30fps. LQ mode still gives you a very solid framerate above that of the standard PS4. Its a demo not the final product in this case..

as for other pro games with performance problems, I think some of those cases will be patched further.
Exactly. Let's also not forget that Square is aiming at 1080p/60fps for the Pro in a December patch.
 

jobboy

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Sep 22, 2009
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not really? frame pacing is something that can be fixed. its already running at a solid 30fps. LQ mode still gives you a very solid framerate above that of the standard PS4. Its a demo not the final product in this case..

as for other pro games with performance problems, I think some of those cases will be patched further.
can be fixed in the future....will be patched....blah blah...these issues shouldn't even be imagined on a supercharged ps4 since the beginning!! Even BF1 that was running pretty good is now being plummeted by the latest patch!
i'm on a 1080p screen and the only game i'm enioying is ratched and clank
 

Gitaroo

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can be fixed in the future....will be patched....blah blah...these issues shouldn't even be imagined on a supercharged ps4 since the beginning!! Even BF1 that was running pretty good is now being plummeted by the latest patch!
i'm on a 1080p screen and the only game i'm enioying is ratched and clank
thats the dev problem.
 

Elios83

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can be fixed in the future....will be patched....blah blah...these issues shouldn't even be imagined on a supercharged ps4 since the beginning!! Even BF1 that was running pretty good is now being plummeted by the latest patch!
i'm on a 1080p screen and the only game i'm enioying is ratched and clank
But this only proves that patches can easily change things and it's all up to devs.
About FFXV they're also working on a performance mode to be patched in December and right now in the demo (that is not the final version) the game looks way better than the standard PS4 version with a solid 30fps.
The impact of frame pacing issues is really subjective, I honestly only noticed some judder in the intro scene with the car and that's it.
 

DOWN

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Here's a couple of comparison pics I took. I took HDR off because the FFXV demo saves the screens in HDR format and when not viewed in HDR it looks horribile.

Pro vegatation and mountain detail:



Standard PS4:




Pro anisotropic filter, reflections and ambient occlusion:


Standard PS4:



Someone could make a comparison gif if you want.
Pro at night:


Standard at night:
Thanks for these. Looks great
 

Harp

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I Know DF needs its clicks and donations. But does anyone else think that the go to site for performance analysis atleast wait until the games released before do an analysis? Basing it on a demo only spreads misinformation. People are going to complain about it for two weeks and if they fix it in the final game have nothing to say.
 

R1CHO

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Jan 30, 2011
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I Know DF needs its clicks and donations. But does anyone else think that the go to site for performance analysis atleast wait until the games released before do an analysis? Basing it on a demo only spreads misinformation. People are going to complain about it for two weeks and if they fix it in the final game have nothing to say.
Such a niche audience should understand the basics of game development and the difference between prerelease code, launch, and post release support.

There is that now, why not checking it up? We will see what happens later.

More info is better that less info imo.
 

FlutterPuffs

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can be fixed in the future....will be patched....blah blah...these issues shouldn't even be imagined on a supercharged ps4 since the beginning!! Even BF1 that was running pretty good is now being plummeted by the latest patch!
i'm on a 1080p screen and the only game i'm enioying is ratched and clank
Even PC games can perform badly on a high end PC with unoptimised code bruv

Which is what the Pro mode currently is. Chill.
 

JP

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I Know DF needs its clicks and donations. But does anyone else think that the go to site for performance analysis atleast wait until the games released before do an analysis? Basing it on a demo only spreads misinformation. People are going to complain about it for two weeks and if they fix it in the final game have nothing to say.
Nope, not at all.
 

dark10x

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I Know DF needs its clicks and donations. But does anyone else think that the go to site for performance analysis atleast wait until the games released before do an analysis? Basing it on a demo only spreads misinformation. People are going to complain about it for two weeks and if they fix it in the final game have nothing to say.
Disagree. Highlighting issues like frame pacing problems prior to release has the potential to shine a light on the problem which might lead to a fix. It has happened before.
 

psychotron

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Dec 23, 2013
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Disagree. Highlighting issues like frame pacing problems prior to release has the potential to shine a light on the problem which might lead to a fix. It has happened before.
Absolutely! This cannot be stated enough. If problems are pointed out before release, it's an incentive for the devs to fix it, as having it be a known problem at launch could affect sales.
 

jobboy

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Sep 22, 2009
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what do i need to explain? we have evidence some games performing worse than og console; others have serious framepacing issues on ps4pro. I can bet here nobody's thought that shit could even happen before ps4pro launch and that concerns me for the future considering how much sony is pushing for higher resolutions.
 

icespide

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what do i need to explain? we have evidence some games performing worse than og console; others have serious framepacing issues on ps4pro. I can bet here nobody's thought that shit could even happen before ps4pro launch and that concerns me for the future considering how much sony is pushing for higher resolutions.
"complete disaster" is an extremely hyperbolic statement on the current state of performance for PS4 Pro games
 

Tyaren

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Here's a couple of comparison pics I took. I took HDR off because the FFXV demo saves the screens in HDR format and when not viewed in HDR it looks horribile.

Pro vegatation and mountain detail:



Standard PS4:
The improvements in vegetation are already considerable in the desert. I wonder how much improvement we will see in a really lush environment like Duscae.

for now pro is a complete disaster performance wise :(
It is so much of a disaster that I didn't even notice it while playing. I found out it had framepacing issues when I watched the DF video.
 

Primethius

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what do i need to explain? we have evidence some games performing worse than og console; others have serious framepacing issues on ps4pro. I can bet here nobody's thought that shit could even happen before ps4pro launch and that concerns me for the future considering how much sony is pushing for higher resolutions.
You make it sound like the Pro causes frame pacing problems... despite the game having the same issue on base consoles (and an issue that plagues other games as well).

Also, "others". What's the other Pro game with frame pacing issues? I must've missed it.
 

Sutton Dagger

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Feb 22, 2010
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Disagree. Highlighting issues like frame pacing problems prior to release has the potential to shine a light on the problem which might lead to a fix. It has happened before.
Agreed. Is there any further ways that we can get this information to the right people, a Twitter account our something. Frame pacing absolutely kills a game for me.... god I love RTSS 😁