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Digital Foundry: Hands-on with DriveClub VR

gmoran

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I'm a little surprised by the comparison to PC VR racing games. While normally you can use the argument sands of combinations of hardware' for limited PC tuning, in the case of VR there are really only two specific targets, so it should be possible to optimise for position/scale etc.

Retrofitting isn't an excuse as driveclub is in the same situation

I think DC VR is basically DC remade as a true VR game, whereas the PC games are really just games retrofitted with VR. Its a subtle difference but I think thats why.
 

bj00rn_

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Aug 17, 2007
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I dont think the df guys are hardcore racing fans, because they failed to mention VR racing's biggest challenge right now (all current HMDs); Not being able to look ahead properly due to lack of resolution at a distance. It can be rather frustrating to unlearn basic driving techniques.

So when you guys get to play this you'll finally understand why some of us think VR racing is both utterly fantastic fun and complete shit, and at the same time.
 

Oppo

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I dont think the df guys are hardcore racing fans, because they failed to mention VR racing's biggest challenge right now (all current HMDs); Not being able to look ahead properly due to lack of resolution at a distance. It can be rather frustrating to unlearn basic driving techniques.

So when you guys get to play this you'll finally understand why some of us think VR racing is both utterly fantastic fun and complete shit, and at the same time.

certainly not the experience the guy in the OP video had.
 

Curufinwe

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I wonder if doing time trials with a wheel on original DC and then DC VR would be a fair comparison.
 

cyberheater

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Mar 10, 2005
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You won't have the feeling of actually driving a car just because you have a VR headset on. There's a huge gap between VR and actual driving simulators and even those don't give you the "feel" of actually driving a car, hydraulics and all.

Did you not read the article in the OP or watch the Vid?
 

ktroopa

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Sep 15, 2013
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Can a mod please rename this thread to ' I love driveclub and its the best0r, PSVR is the best thing evar since sliced bread!'

Jebus.... :/
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
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Can a mod please rename this thread to ' I love driveclub and its the best0r, PSVR is the best thing evar since sliced bread!'

Jebus.... :/
Wut?

I missed some reference here?
 

Frozone

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Jun 28, 2015
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Nope, Neo isn't powerful enough.

Even high end PCs can't do VR at a fidelity matching consoles in non-VR.

Why not? The resolution for VR is not even 4k. If anything, there isn't enough money to be made making a game with such detail only to be run on high end Titan X/1080s. Pretty much every game on console can be run on a PC at VR res @ 95Hz.
 
Oct 13, 2013
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Can a mod please rename this thread to ' I love driveclub and its the best0r, PSVR is the best thing evar since sliced bread!'

Jebus.... :/

You can't blame people for challenging what feels to be relentless pessimism. Some of the criticisms are ridiculous. Some people need to appreciate it's a $400 mass market VR headset, not a fucking Holodeck.

PSVR isn't perfect, but it is a remarkable achievement.
 

FyreWulff

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Why not? The resolution for VR is not even 4k. If anything, there isn't enough money to be made making a game with such detail only to be run on high end Titan X/1080s. Pretty much every game on console can be run on a PC at VR res @ 95Hz.

Because you have to render the world twice plus have the utmost minimum lag possible in your rendering, so now you've essentially halved your throughput budget and your time-to-frame budget is also slashed.

Now, I'm not saying the graphics are not acceptable, and will be fine for 90% of people, but looking at these games in detail will make it pretty obvious.
 

Oppo

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Because you have to render the world twice plus have the utmost minimum lag possible in your rendering, so now you've essentially halved your throughput budget and your time-to-frame budget is also slashed.

Now, I'm not saying the graphics are not acceptable, and will be fine for 90% of people, but looking at these games in detail will make it pretty obvious.

it's not quite as straightforward as that. there are efficiencies in rendering that can be had - for instance assets obviously will be shared between the two viewpoints, seeing as they are only eye-width (or slightly higher) apart at any time. and both targets add up to a single 1080p frame in rez.if they can hit 60 then the PSVR box reproduces to 120, it's demanding but not crazy town, not "twice as hard" directly.
 

Oppo

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I do wonder what Sony will do of Driveclub VR is a big hit. it looks really good. but they don't have Evolution Studios anymore.

sent the video to my dad, he's ready to buy a PS4 + PSVR + Playseats, like, NOW. I had to break it to him that it won't be out for a few months at least.
 

VanCityGamer

Member
Jan 11, 2013
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I'm telling you guys, as soon as you start playing, graphic fidelity goes out the fucking window. You are in that world. You don't give a shit anymore. Playing heist was amazing.
Plus, psvr was so comfortable. My God. I never felt like I had something on my head.
My brother could not stop talking about the experience.

You start adding Neo to the mix? Give it some extra horsepower? Up the resolution? Ohh man, I can't wait.

Already have psvr pre-ordered and going to get Neo. Hopefully Neo comes out before vr though to be honest.

I disagree, sadly. I thought the poor image quality and very basic graphics of the Heist were quite distracting. I also didn't think it was much fun and felt the shooting was terrible.
 
Jan 27, 2011
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Instead of a discussion of a pretty cool game the thread turned into a battleground in just a few posts. Shameful.

I'm keeping an open mind until I can play it myself. This is one of those things that a video won't do proper justice.

I know right? PSVR doing well is the best thing for the tech. Affordable, quality option ready for 50 million people.

This and the positive Tomb Raider PSVR impressions are good to see.
 

gmoran

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Jun 8, 2004
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I dont think the df guys are hardcore racing fans, because they failed to mention VR racing's biggest challenge right now (all current HMDs); Not being able to look ahead properly due to lack of resolution at a distance. It can be rather frustrating to unlearn basic driving techniques.

So when you guys get to play this you'll finally understand why some of us think VR racing is both utterly fantastic fun and complete shit, and at the same time.

Yeah I've watched a few videos where sim-racers weigh up the pros and cons:in the videos I've watched VR has nudged it even ahead of three screen setups, but again it's a compromise; and we all have slightly different requirements and experiences, so what works for one may not for another.
 

ktroopa

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Sep 15, 2013
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yeah... it had no turtle shells nor other shits

Thats awesome. Regardless this guy is cool



Please enjoy.

/waves goodbye to this thread
 

vermadas

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I'm a little surprised by the comparison to PC VR racing games. While normally you can use the argument sands of combinations of hardware' for limited PC tuning, in the case of VR there are really only two specific targets, so it should be possible to optimise for position/scale etc.

Retrofitting isn't an excuse as driveclub is in the same situation

I don't think Driveclub is a simple retrofit. I mean, I'm sure they're reusing assets, etc but it had a lot of work put into it. Enough that they are selling it stand-alone, and not as DLC for the original game.

Both Project Cars and Dirt Rally had VR support patched in for free. Project Cars suffers from poor performance and scale issues. Dirt Rally fares a lot better, but is not without issues of its own. The in game wheel does not sync up correctly with many wheel controllers. It also defaults to a setting that soft locks your view to the horizon,which you can thankfully turn off. I have not tried Assetto Corsa, Live For Speed, or iRacing to make any comparison. But none of these games had VR support added as anything more than an afterthought.

Don't get me wrong, Dirt Rally VR is a fantastic experience,and probably my favorite VR game so far. But it's not too surprising to see a game with more dedicated dev resources put out a more polished VR experience.
 

clintar

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Sep 10, 2008
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What's the chance that we get a neo-version with weather effects on? Are they allowed to do that?
I was thinking it wouldn't be allowed since you aren't allowed to add features not in the original ps4 version, but since they are in the original non-vr version, that might be allowed I hope.
 

ekgrey

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May 3, 2014
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Nope. I noted that in the last episode. Was at Gamescom all week so I didn't have time.

Ah shit, I somehow missed that (or blocked it out because I didn't want to hear it haha). And of course, makes sense. Thanks!
 

Inuhanyou

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Jul 26, 2014
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HOLY SHIT.

I didn't expect such overwhelming positivity from these reviews. Especially considering its 60fps and with that reprojection tech instead of actually 90 or 120fps
 

Electret

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May 14, 2014
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Sounds like Evolution is well on its way to delivering again. Well done, ladies n' gents.
 

dark10x

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HOLY SHIT.

I didn't expect such overwhelming positivity from these reviews. Especially considering its 60fps and with that reprojection tech instead of actually 90 or 120fps
Yeah, I actually was most blown away by how well async time warp actually works at 60fps. It feels very much like it's running at a higher frame-rate overall.

It was really just an incredible experience that I didn't expect to be that good.
 

Inuhanyou

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Jul 26, 2014
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Yeah, I actually was most blown away by how well async time warp actually works at 60fps. It feels very much like it's running at a higher frame-rate overall.

It was really just an incredible experience that I didn't expect to be that good.

Would you personally say that Driveclub VR sells the concept of 60fps artifical repreojection for the most part? That would solve a lot of the issues related to having to render at framerates far higher than consoles can handle
 

eyeball_kid

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Jul 25, 2011
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We see again and again in the tech industry that when as much effort is put into the human-tech interface and experience as is put into the hardware itself, a product with less advanced hardware can match or beat the experience of competing products. UX and art direction really do matter.

I think I'm going to keep my PSVR preorder based on all the positive reports, as I really like vanilla DriveClub. I'm curious though how DC VR will feel with just a DS4 and not a wheel.
 

dark10x

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Would you personally say that Driveclub VR sells the concept of 60fps artifical repreojection for the most part? That would solve a lot of the issues related to having to render at framerates far higher than consoles can handle
It does.

The only time you notice the effect breaking is when looking out of the side window at full speed. It's not so much that it looks bad, per se, but you can see a double image effect. That sounds way worse than it is, though, and weirdly has zero impact on head movement as it doesn't impact the image as a whole. Hard to explain but the overall sensation was 95% of what I'd expect at a native higher refresh. More than adequate.
 

ktroopa

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Sep 15, 2013
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The positive impressions are making you angry? Why?

Read the whole thread, im not angry moreso others getting crazy becoz i expressed an opinion that no weather and 8 cars was a change i felt unhappy with. That is all.

Posting opinions on a public forum whoa people lets make sure we understand this concept ok? Before we get our knickers in a twist..

/peace
 

vermadas

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Yeah, I actually was most blown away by how well async time warp actually works at 60fps. It feels very much like it's running at a higher frame-rate overall.

Just a note, reprojection != async time warp. The former is used by Vive and PSVR, but the latter is only on the Rift and Gear VR. The purpose is the same, but the implementation is a bit different.
 

bj00rn_

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Aug 17, 2007
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The video in the article that OP posted

I was just trying to find out what he was referring to in my post, because his post doesn't correlate with what I was trying to describe.

Let me try again; To sit inside a car in VR feels very natural and totally awesome. However, what low distance resolution does when you actually drive is to force your eyes away (because distance is muddy from low res) from the natural "looking ahead" point (a basic driving technique that everyone should know) and further angled down on the road and closer to the car. And this leads to what was my core point; that interestingly enough this makes VR racing utterly awesome and utterly disappointing at the same time.

HMDs with eyetracking and foveated rendering can't come soon enough.

Just a note, reprojection != async time warp. The former is used by Vive and PSVR, but the latter is only on the Rift and Gear VR. The purpose is the same, but the implementation is a bit different.

When used as pure framerate doubling there's not much difference to the user. Same advantages and disadvantages in framerate and image quality (of course 90Hz on the Vive and Rift makes it different in itself)

Edit: To clarify: Reprojection and Timewarp is the same, but doing it async (like the PS4) is the difference. The disadvantage of this with the Vive is that the framerate doubles 45 to 90 when below 90 native (async is coming says the rumors). I usually turn reprojection off as an incentive to make everything run at native because I don't like the ghosting artifacts on the trackside objects (and on the other cars)
 

cyberheater

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It does.

The only time you notice the effect breaking is when looking out of the side window at full speed. It's not so much that it looks bad, per se, but you can see a double image effect. That sounds way worse than it is, though, and weirdly has zero impact on head movement as it doesn't impact the image as a whole. Hard to explain but the overall sensation was 95% of what I'd expect at a native higher refresh. More than adequate.

That sounds great. Sony look like they have really nailed great VR straight out of the gate.
 

vermadas

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When used as pure framerate doubling there's no difference to the user. Same advantages and disadvantages in framerate and image quality.
Saying it this way is like saying "if you cap the FPS of a flat screen PC game at 60 there is no difference to the user between using a g-sync monitor and simply using vsync on a traditional monitor." What you say is true, but the advantage of async time warp is that you aren't forced to halve the rendering Hz from that of the display.
 

cyberheater

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What you say is true, but the advantage of async time warp is that you aren't forced to halve the rendering Hz from that of the display.

Yes. bj00rn_ knows the difference. He knows the tech.
 

Twenty7KVN

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Jul 27, 2011
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I'm telling you guys, as soon as you start playing, graphic fidelity goes out the fucking window. You are in that world. You don't give a shit anymore. Playing heist was amazing.
Plus, psvr was so comfortable. My God. I never felt like I had something on my head.
My brother could not stop talking about the experience.

You start adding Neo to the mix? Give it some extra horsepower? Up the resolution? Ohh man, I can't wait.

Already have psvr pre-ordered and going to get Neo. Hopefully Neo comes out before vr though to be honest.
I agree with this %100 i demoed psvr for the first time yesterday at best buy,and I played eve valkryie and although the graphics looked like shit i had a fucking blast,I was ready to buy a HTC vive when I was done. Vr is a game changer and has rocketed back up to the top of my mustv have gadget list,go to start saving to get one.
 

kinggroin

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Sep 4, 2006
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It's articles like this that cement my decision to forgo getting a Oculus CV1 and stick with my PSVR pre-order. Have the correct scale etc... so that you really do feel you are sitting in a car.

In other words. VR done right.

Told you man. Fuck the Rift. Software is king.


Vive bae tho
 

Fezan

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Really great to hear positive impression.

I know evolution studio may bot have been profitable but they seriously lost a lot of talent. There expertise might have helped the psvr in long run
 

Cuburt

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For a technical breakdown, the descriptions seems to keep dipping into colorful, subjective descriptions.

I'm not getting swept up in the hype. This may be a title that convinces me to take the PSVR leap but they have to pull it off right. I'd rather try it for myself because quotes like

The world isn't as richly detailed as before, but the resolution limits of PSVR at least help conceal that fact to a degree.

make me wonder if that is supposed to be a good thing in a game like this. I'd argue that the lack of detail is pretty crucial when you are speeding along at 90 MPH trying to distinguish between things on a curve several hundred feet up ahead that you have to start preparing for now before you actually get there.

And what is this this quote even trying to tell me or anyone who has little context of what this technical mumbo jumbo means in terms of real world performance?

Beyond that, while it's true that PSVR headset uses a lower resolution screen, it's sub-pixel arrangement helps to produce a very clean image while its optics minimise screen-door effect. In comparison, the Rift and Vive both use a pentile sub-pixel layout which has a negative impact on overall image quality. The difference manifests itself in the number of sub-pixels per pixel - an RGB matrix features three, while a pentile arrangement relies on just two. The higer resolution certainly results in a sharper image on the PC headsets, but PSVR compares favourably as a result of its RGB layout.

With my hands on time with the PSVR, I find the SDE pretty pronounced in certain games (The Heist, certain elements of Eve Valkyrie) and after spending some time with the Gear VR using an s7 Edge, it's diamond sub-pixel layout actually made more of an effect than the PSVR's RGB layout to minimize that effect to me, but I find the resolution to be a much bigger determining factor of how bad the SDE can appear. That quote almost sounds like it's trying to justify how the image actually looks better to them on the PSVR despite having a lower resolution, without coming out and trying to claim that.



I do believe that PSVR can achieve better results than what has been produced for the more advanced Vive and Occulus on the software/game side that can make the experience more polished and feeling better, especially with the amount of money and the caliber of developers that will be coming to the PS4/PSVR. Publishers/developers have a reputation to uphold and IPs that they want VR to provide more revenue for them going forward, so I think the experiences have a lot of potential on the PS4 that they won't have on PC in the short term future. That being said, they still have to show and prove that is the case and they have even more hurdles and limitations to work around on the platform and the hardware, so I know I'm still very skeptical about what the experience will be.
 

gamingPotato7

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Its absolutely incredible what they managed to achieve here. And it definitely sold me on PSVR, both this article and that amazing video from Playstation Access. What a time to be alive!
 

dark10x

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Just a note, reprojection != async time warp. The former is used by Vive and PSVR, but the latter is only on the Rift and Gear VR. The purpose is the same, but the implementation is a bit different.
Ah, I've been using the two interchangeably without actually looking into the differences. Thanks for the heads up!