Support NeoGAF

[Neo_game]

Lord of the Fallen was created in 2020 with a team of 75 people. I doubt it even has a AAA budget behind it.

That studio and game should be in no way an indication of what these next gen consoles can achieve.

Anything by the big AAA studios like Naughty Dog, The Coalition, Playground Games, Sony Santa Monica should be put up there as the benchmark for what next gen games will look like. No disrespect but a team of 75 slapped together in 2020 to create an RPG is not going to be pushing the boundries of visual tech with class leading production values in the AAA space.

What ? Gfx wise Lords of the fallen looks more impressive.




It is a dark, atmospheric game like DS. IMO these type of game can have best gfx.

I think we have hit a wall with open world games and I doubt we are going to get anything big this gen.

 

[HazukiSensei]

He's been harping on and on that targeting native 4k is the reason Ratchet PS5 and now Spiderman 2 is the reason why it doesn't look "next-gen" without any substantive evidence to support his claims. Now we see that Insomniac is actually implementing DRS with a seemingly large window, even for the 30fps fidelity mode.

He should take it as a lesson. But he won't.

Targeting NATIVE 4k would certainly require alot of resources....thats a fact. Regardless of whatever insomniac chose to do here. They'd be choosing resolution over say...population density, or polygons, or particle effects, which I think is wack...

 

[HazukiSensei]

What ? Gfx wise Lords of the fallen looks more impressive.




It is a dark, atmospheric game like DS. IMO these type of game can have best gfx.

I think we have hit a wall with open world games and I doubt we are going to get anything big this gen.

No we did not hit a wall. For what? Ps5? Be more imaginative. Think of what a 4090 could render.

Regarding ps5 I'd like to see what they would do if 1080 30fps was still a standard.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

No we did not hit a wall. For what? Ps5? Be more imaginative. Think of what a 4090 could render.

who is gonna develop for a 4090 as the base line(or any flag ship of today or the future)...yep, no one.

Regarding ps5 I'd like to see what they would do if 1080 30fps was still a standard.

4K was such a disappointment. there is a lot of technologies that could have been easier to achieve and push forward.

but this is the thing....Tears of the Kingom a fucking fisher-price toy is showing that you dont need all the tearaflops to make innovate and ambitious game desing and mechanics...so hopefully the "graphics" side of the conversation gets a reality check. and devs/PR-Marketing/and "Gamers" get that graphic (sure are going to get better) but there is not going to be insane jump anymore. just a refinement and a slowly integration of ray tracing.

 

[ChiefDada]

Targeting NATIVE 4k would certainly require alot of resources....thats a fact. Regardless of whatever insomniac chose to do here. They'd be choosing resolution over say...population density, or polygons, or particle effects, which I think is wack...

My point was his premise is almost never backed up with evidence. In this case, he can't use this logic for the gameplay demo, which he describes as "not next-gen" because it is applying a large drs range.

It's inaccurate to assume resolution is always the bottleneck for every other graphical feature when it absolutely isn't.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

What ? Gfx wise Lords of the fallen looks more impressive.




It is a dark, atmospheric game like DS. IMO these type of game can have best gfx.

I think we have hit a wall with open world games and I doubt we are going to get anything big this gen.

It's impressive but don't you think Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, The Coalition and Playground Games for example are capable of higher graphical fidelty games on any of these next gen consoles compared to this studio of 70 that was formed just 3 years ago?

And no we haven't hit a wall in anything. I' surprised you're also leaving out Rockstar when you say we're not getting anything big this gen.

If you're holding up Lords Of The Fallen as some sort of benchmark for open world games this gen? Bro....

 

[Bogroll]

Grow up you silly boy.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

No we did not hit a wall. For what? Ps5? Be more imaginative. Think of what a 4090 could render.

Regarding ps5 I'd like to see what they would do if 1080 30fps was still a standard.

1080p but then upscaled to at least 1600p? Because just regular old 1080p looks like crap on a 4k tv

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

My point was his premise is almost never backed up with evidence. In this case, he can't use this logic for the gameplay demo, which he describes as "not next-gen" because it is applying a large drs range.

It's inaccurate to assume resolution is always the bottleneck for every other graphical feature when it absolutely isn't.

Resolution and framerate are the two things that eat up the most resources so by his logic I can see why he believes its holding games visuals to a certain ceiling.

You're right though, how does the assertion that it's holding Spudermam 2 back when we know it's using DRS with a way lower pixel counts?

Btw- I remember reading that Insomniac was using temporal injection on Ratchet and Miles Morales ...where's the proof that those were ever native 4k? I think that was something that may have been claimed by one of the tech channels via a mistake in pixel counting

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

What ? Gfx wise Lords of the fallen looks more impressive.




It is a dark, atmospheric game like DS. IMO these type of game can have best gfx.

I think we have hit a wall with open world games and I doubt we are going to get anything big this gen.

Confirmed. Looks better than Spidy 2

 

[DeepEnigma]

Grow up you silly boy.

 

[rofif]

Call me what you want but I have been gaming before you were in diapers. You also will not call me $70 less for a sub par product. Lacks 4k and 60fps? Inexcusable this far in the generaton. Pass

You are only 10 years older than me by the user name.
But if you think 4k60 is all that matters because game is 70? Ooof…. I don’t even know where to start arguing so I will stop

 

[rofif]

1080p but then upscaled to at least 1600p? Because just regular old 1080p looks like crap on a 4k tv

Exactly. Only people who still don’t have 4k tv or monitor on their desk say that 4k sucks. I’ve had my first 4k monitor in like 2017. It really is amazing.
Even if you can target native, there are so many pros of 4k. Ui, upscaling, pixel density and so on.

 

[OCASM]

1080p but then upscaled to at least 1600p? Because just regular old 1080p looks like crap on a 4k tv

Consoles should support integer scaling from 1080p to 4K.

 

[DeepEnigma]

1080p but then upscaled to at least 1600p? Because just regular old 1080p looks like crap on a 4k tv

1080p is an even integer to 4K. A good TV scaler will keep it crisp.

It does not look like crap in the 720p on a 1080p set type of vaseline.

 

[YCoCg]

It does not look like crap in the 720p on a 1080p set type of vaseline.

Funnily enough because 720p is also an integer to 4k, 720p stuff can look better of 4k than a 1080p since it's just scaling exactly 3x.

 

[rofif]

1080p is an even integer to 4K. A good TV scaler will keep it crisp.

It does not look like crap in the 720p on a 1080p set type of vaseline.

It doesn't matter(that 4k is integer for 720p and 1080p) because no tv or monitor operates lower res as integer scaler.
This is a way overblown issue and difference between usual(linear) scaling and integer scaling is almost non existent for 3d games.. in fact, integer looks like shit for filtered games.
It is only to be used with pixelart games.

I know. I am the biggest mouthpiece for integer scaler. I am pretty sure it is becasuse of my reddit thread, nvdia implemented integer scaler lol.


No monitor or tv supports integer scaler natively. Nothing. There is this amazing piece of software I mention above.

IntegerScaler — nonblurry scaling of games in Windows 7+

tanalin.com

And yes, I made the biggest integer scaling topic on reddit before it was a thing and my opinion is on that website lol.
WAY later nvidia introduced integer scaler in nvidia control panel.

but still. 720p or 1080p look perfectly fine on 1440p or 4k. No integer scaler needed. If you use integer scaler on modern games, they become pixelated obviously and it slooks terribly.
For old games? Perfect.

 

[HazukiSensei]

My point was his premise is almost never backed up with evidence. In this case, he can't use this logic for the gameplay demo, which he describes as "not next-gen" because it is applying a large drs range.

It's inaccurate to assume resolution is always the bottleneck for every other graphical feature when it absolutely isn't.

Do you PC game? Have you ever say...went from 4K res to 1080 and noticed the difference in fps? Thats fps that could be allocated to something else.

I thought we werent graphic whores? Yet were whores for res? Sacrificing like 20 fps or more for it?

 

[TLZ]

I thought I was on video game Twitter all of a sudden... it's going to be fine, stop being so dramatic.

It's been that way since the PS showcase.

 

[HazukiSensei]

who is gonna develop for a 4090 as the base line(or any flag ship of today or the future)...yep, no one.

4K was such a disappointment. there is a lot of technologies that could have been easier to achieve and push forward.

but this is the thing....Tears of the Kingom a fucking fisher-price toy is showing that you dont need all the tearaflops to make innovate and ambitious game desing and mechanics...so hopefully the "graphics" side of the conversation gets a reality check. and devs/PR-Marketing/and "Gamers" get that graphic (sure are going to get better) but there is not going to be insane jump anymore. just a refinement and a slowly integration of ray tracing.

I wouldnt say that tears of the kingdom proves we dont need the teraflops. Because to be honest, if you had showed 14 year old me in 2004, fresh after playing half life 2, that tears of the kingdom was ambitious game design in 2023, I'd be pissed. 20 years and thats as far as we got? Tears of the kingdom?

We simply arent utilizing that power because of costs, cross gen is the way it is now, because of the lack of ps5's in houses for an extended amount of years compared to other generations. And us prioritzing ray tracing and 4k 60 is also honna result in the foundation of the visuals still looking last gen.

I.e. slapping RT on Elden ring or Fortnite isn't gonna make it look more next gen in the grand scheme. You'd get a clearer visual orgasm if they used the frames that RT is taking up on highly advanced particle effects or something.

 

[00Magnum Gaming]

Nobody can describe what "next gen" is supposed to look like. And when they do, they whip out tech demos. Which no game ever hits, because it's just a damned tech demo.

With that said, it's using DRS, so how does DRS impact the graphics budget? It will hit low when it needs to and hit high when it can, and 99% of the time you won't be able to discern the difference with how well the tech is now.

Hellblade 2 is the only mind blowing thing ive seen this Gen

 

[DeepEnigma]

Hellblade 2 is the only mind blwoing thing ive seen this Gen

Agreed. Now let’s see how it plays this month, hopefully.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I wouldnt say that tears of the kingdom proves we dont need the teraflops. Because to be honest, if you had showed 14 year old me in 2004, fresh after playing half life 2, that tears of the kingdom was ambitious game design in 2023, I'd be pissed. 20 years and thats as far as we got? Tears of the kingdom?

We simply arent utilizing that power because of costs, cross gen is the way it is now, because of the lack of ps5's in houses for an extended amount of years compared to other generations. And us prioritzing ray tracing and 4k 60 is also honna result in the foundation of the visuals still looking last gen.

I.e. slapping RT on Elden ring or Fortnite isn't gonna make it look more next gen in the grand scheme. You'd get a clearer visual orgasm if they used the frames that RT is taking up on highly advanced particle effects or something.

yisus, you seem pretty uninformed in several topic.

three topics:

1. Game Design/Mechanics.
the point was that you dont need all the tera flops to implement a very ambitions gameplay systems/mechanics and even physics.

2. Resolution.
in this point i agree with you.

3. Ray tracing

 

[Lokaum D+]

Hellblade 2 is the only mind blwoing thing ive seen this Gen

So, a cinematic "in engine" trailer like spiderman2 showed at reveal

 

[HazukiSensei]

yisus, you seem pretty uninformed in several topic.

three topics:

1. Game Design/Mechanics.
the point was that you dont need all the tera flops to implement a very ambitions gameplay systems/mechanics and even physics.

2. Resolution.
in this point i agree with you.

3. Ray tracing

1. I hear you on not needing teraflops for mechanics, but what im saying is, even mechanically I dont find totk as ambitious as I'd expect from a 20 year jump from 2004.

I know what raytracing is supposed to do, but when slapped on elden ring. It still doesnt look better than say...uncharted 4,tlou 2 Or the witcher 3 rasterized. Yet it's taxing on elden as if it's made some crysis level advancement visually...it doesnt

Alot more goes into graphics than slapping this taxing ass new lighting and reflections. Focus on getting it to look like the next crysis FIRST then add on that shit. Alot of devs and graphics card manufacturers will use this feature to scam new cards without the visuals in return. Ugly last gen game? Slap RT on it and suddenly you NEED a 4080 lol

When a 4080 should be able to pull of some pixar level shit if a dev pushed it

 

[Gamer79]

You are only 10 years older than me by the user name.
But if you think 4k60 is all that matters because game is 70? Ooof…. I don’t even know where to start arguing so I will stop

Dude I never said 4k 60.

It hits neither 4k nor 60 fps. For a major studio working on this game this long it is inexcusable. I will wait for a bargin bin pricey. These companies are asking more money from me so I will hold them to a higher standard.

I am highly disappointed with this Spiderman.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

1. I hear you on not needing teraflops for mechanics, but what im saying is, even mechanically I dont find totk as ambitious as I'd expect from a 20 year jump from 2004.

yet, no many (if any contemporary) videogame to ToTK implements that level of videogame design philosophy.

I know what raytracing is supposed to do, but when slapped on elden ring. It still doesnt look better than say...uncharted 4,tlou 2 Or the witcher 3 rasterized. Yet it's taxing on elden as if it's made some crysis level advancement visually...it doesnt

Alot more goes into graphics than slapping this taxing ass new lighting and reflections. Focus on getting it to look like the next crysis FIRST then add on that shit. Alot of devs and graphics card manufacturers will use this feature to scam new cards without the visuals in return. Ugly last gen game? Slap RT on it and suddenly you NEED a 4080 lol

but is not. just look at the video (has the chapters).

When a 4080 should be able to pull of some pixar level shit if a dev pushed it

the irony of this is you will need Ray Tracing to achieve something like this.

 

[Batiman]

Looks good but nothing mind blowing. Does this game have a 60fps mode?

 

[FrankWza]

So, a cinematic "in engine" trailer like spiderman2 showed at reveal

I haven't seen anything recent but the one from last year was just the one gameplay moment when she throws the spear?

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

What ? Gfx wise Lords of the fallen looks more impressive.

This is just straight delusional.

 

[CGNoire]

And it's not a game. Baffling, indeed.

If The Matrix on rails shooting isnt gameplay then neither is a majority of Star Fox.

 

[alucard0712_rus]

The biggest upgrades are where it counts new gameplay elements seamlessly changing between locations

Wow next gen!

 

[ChiefDada]

Not threadworthy so I'm posting this cool easter egg here.