Digital Foundry: Neo GPU are point-for-point a match for RX 480

Jun 22, 2008
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that is still 36 CU to use for games. Won't be a 5TF GPU unless Sony decided to use a full 480. Reading on beyond3d, its memory is still crippled by sharing with CPU so don't expect games suddenly running in double frame rate. Neo can only provide cosmetic upgrade around the same but maybe steadier frame rate.
If that would mean that, for example, UC4 would use its cutscene models and lightning in-game at 30fps@1080p i would totally be okay with it.
 
Feb 7, 2014
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Nothing Sony is doing is reactionary to what MS is doing, there have always been two options. I would also like to stand by my original claim that the Scorpio will be more powerful than the Neo. (how much more is up for debate) In case it was forgotten the very first information I had for release dates was either Holiday this year or 1st quarter next year with a pin in March. (Stating it will be out before not during that month)

Talking to Diana and Bob (Hello Bob) the biggest problem is getting the price to the originally promised numbers. Sony does NOT want to revisit a $599 price point. Bob says internally they think waiting to Q1 would be best for helping them come in at the originally promised $499 and that's even if they decided to go for option B.

Also to people saying the specs are not final, they are final there are just two different specs. There are rumors that Sony is planning to release both machines I don't believe this will happen as it would be confusing as shit. Bob (Hello Bob) says one will likely be scrapped (so long blue pill) when the other goes into production. Also states that the form factor and casing could require them to use an external power brick this time around due to heating concerns.


Diana has no information at all about specifications, she also does not have anything suggesting Sony will release two separate skus outside of the OG PS4 and the Neo.

Edited to add: Sony will not be selling this machine at a loss. (Thanks Bob).
 
If that would mean that, for example, UC4 would use its cutscene models and lightning in-game at 30fps@1080p i would totally be okay with it.


FYI UC4 cut scenes and game play are both running in real-time using same models and LOD. Hence the seamless transition from cut scene to game play. The cut scenes just use more cinematic camera placements and close up shots.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/uncharted-4s-real-time-cutscenes-are-profound-dev-/1100-6438881/
 

Drifters

Junior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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So I just re-read through 4 pages of fluff to find out that people are going to forever and always state that a system (read that as "console") is better than the other simply due to hardware specs?

Also to Osiris' point, I've always been in the "one" SKU camp as realistically, Sony doesn't want an PS4 and a PS4+ (PS4K, et al) to deal with. Price is always the largest consideration as you stated, the PS3 gave us heartburn. If the planets align, Sony's main marketing job is to two fold:

1) Expand the base by offering a premium experience with 4K content through the Sony brand.
2) Offering a superior gaming experience to those wanting the best console experience.


To point 2, in my mind, performance on paper (which isn't even confirmed yet) means little if developers don't have anything to be excited about. Everything we've heard rumored wise at this point leads to believe that we'll get:

- Enhanced PS4 vanilla games
- Updated GPU to deliver even better state of the art experiences

Sony gets that, developers get that I think the fan base wants that.
 
Bob seems to be a nice guy.
I'm still curious how this will turn out, how much more eye candy can you get if uncharted 4 already looks like its current state.
You'd be surprised. Programmers, artists, and story tellers when given the right tools can do some amazing things, especially when its a well oiled, high performance machine of a studio like Naughty Dog.
 
Jun 23, 2014
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Arizona
Feb 5, 2013
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Nothing Sony is doing is reactionary to what MS is doing, there have always been two options. I would also like to stand by my original claim that the Scorpio will be more powerful than the Neo. (how much more is up for debate) In case it was forgotten the very first information I had for release dates was either Holiday this year or 1st quarter next year with a pin in March. (Stating it will be out before not during that month)

Talking to Diana and Bob (Hello Bob) the biggest problem is getting the price to the originally promised numbers. Sony does NOT want to revisit a $599 price point. Bob says internally they think waiting to Q1 would be best for helping them come in at the originally promised $499 and that's even if they decided to go for option B.

Also to people saying the specs are not final, they are final there are just two different specs. There are rumors that Sony is planning to release both machines I don't believe this will happen as it would be confusing as shit. Bob (Hello Bob) says one will likely be scrapped (so long blue pill) when the other goes into production. Also states that the form factor and casing could require them to use an external power brick this time around due to heating concerns.


Diana has no information at all about specifications, she also does not have anything suggesting Sony will release two separate skus outside of the OG PS4 and the Neo.

Edited to add: Sony will not be selling this machine at a loss. (Thanks Bob).
is option B still using jaguar cores or zen ?
 
Jun 26, 2009
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Nothing Sony is doing is reactionary to what MS is doing, there have always been two options. I would also like to stand by my original claim that the Scorpio will be more powerful than the Neo. (how much more is up for debate) In case it was forgotten the very first information I had for release dates was either Holiday this year or 1st quarter next year with a pin in March. (Stating it will be out before not during that month)

Talking to Diana and Bob (Hello Bob) the biggest problem is getting the price to the originally promised numbers. Sony does NOT want to revisit a $599 price point. Bob says internally they think waiting to Q1 would be best for helping them come in at the originally promised $499 and that's even if they decided to go for option B.

Also to people saying the specs are not final, they are final there are just two different specs. There are rumors that Sony is planning to release both machines I don't believe this will happen as it would be confusing as shit. Bob (Hello Bob) says one will likely be scrapped (so long blue pill) when the other goes into production. Also states that the form factor and casing could require them to use an external power brick this time around due to heating concerns.


Diana has no information at all about specifications, she also does not have anything suggesting Sony will release two separate skus outside of the OG PS4 and the Neo.

Edited to add: Sony will not be selling this machine at a loss. (Thanks Bob).
$499 huh? I was really expecting a $399 price point and $299 base PS4..
 
Mar 31, 2006
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Nothing Sony is doing is reactionary to what MS is doing, there have always been two options. I would also like to stand by my original claim that the Scorpio will be more powerful than the Neo. (how much more is up for debate) In case it was forgotten the very first information I had for release dates was either Holiday this year or 1st quarter next year with a pin in March. (Stating it will be out before not during that month)

Talking to Diana and Bob (Hello Bob) the biggest problem is getting the price to the originally promised numbers. Sony does NOT want to revisit a $599 price point. Bob says internally they think waiting to Q1 would be best for helping them come in at the originally promised $499 and that's even if they decided to go for option B.

Also to people saying the specs are not final, they are final there are just two different specs. There are rumors that Sony is planning to release both machines I don't believe this will happen as it would be confusing as shit. Bob (Hello Bob) says one will likely be scrapped (so long blue pill) when the other goes into production. Also states that the form factor and casing could require them to use an external power brick this time around due to heating concerns.


Diana has no information at all about specifications, she also does not have anything suggesting Sony will release two separate skus outside of the OG PS4 and the Neo.

Edited to add: Sony will not be selling this machine at a loss. (Thanks Bob).

Thanks for the recap. The highlighted above is where I'm astonished if true. Sony have paid AMD (hundreds of millions each?) to design, engineer and tape out 2 spec levels of SoC and Sony are just going to throw one away?

Am I the only one here to think that sounds crazy?
 

Drifters

Junior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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Thanks for the recap. The highlighted above is where I'm astonished if true. Sony have paid AMD (hundreds of millions each?) to design, engineer and tape out 2 spec levels of SoC and Sony are just going to throw one away?

Am I the only one here to think that sounds crazy?
We're not talking mass production, although what that validates is multiple dev kits at different specs which means, Neo is not finalized yet.
 
May 9, 2016
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Nothing Sony is doing is reactionary to what MS is doing, there have always been two options. I would also like to stand by my original claim that the Scorpio will be more powerful than the Neo. (how much more is up for debate) In case it was forgotten the very first information I had for release dates was either Holiday this year or 1st quarter next year with a pin in March. (Stating it will be out before not during that month)

Talking to Diana and Bob (Hello Bob) the biggest problem is getting the price to the originally promised numbers. Sony does NOT want to revisit a $599 price point. Bob says internally they think waiting to Q1 would be best for helping them come in at the originally promised $499 and that's even if they decided to go for option B.

Also to people saying the specs are not final, they are final there are just two different specs. There are rumors that Sony is planning to release both machines I don't believe this will happen as it would be confusing as shit. Bob (Hello Bob) says one will likely be scrapped (so long blue pill) when the other goes into production. Also states that the form factor and casing could require them to use an external power brick this time around due to heating concerns.


Diana has no information at all about specifications, she also does not have anything suggesting Sony will release two separate skus outside of the OG PS4 and the Neo.

Edited to add: Sony will not be selling this machine at a loss. (Thanks Bob).
In your original leak you said that only a better CPU would raise the price to $499.
Still true?
 
Feb 7, 2008
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If that would mean that, for example, UC4 would use its cutscene models and lightning in-game at 30fps@1080p i would totally be okay with it.
That and more physic based particles. Think of pc games with nVidia physics option. And the new architecture is suppose to be far more efficient at doing tessellation too. I don't understand. Ppl obsession with sony matching the scorpio spec, the main reason the do this in the first place is that its cheaper than to redesign for the die shrink and may cost the same or even cheaper to manufacture. There are only 2 things the need to focus, pricing and release this year. Right from the beginning of this sign the Ps4 was designed with a price point in mind, I have no doubt that the Neo is any different. If the PS4 is profitable at 350, neo at 400 is very likely especially I cant see the PS4 staying at 300 this holiday season with xbone s at 300. And of course you got to profit off the early adopters and take advantage of the holiday season so 450 with the bigger hdd sku first or game bundle or the camera that is so conveniently not included in the psvr is very likely. PS4K + camera + psvr just under 1000 sounds good to me if you look at other vr options. Pricing it at 500 Its pretty much no different than looking a 599 again if this is also intended for mass market.
 

iTehDroiD

Neo Member
Oct 6, 2014
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I hope they release it this year. Give it about 5TF and a better CPU and I'm happy. 4K will not be possible no matter what they put in there (considering a realistic price point). Even Scorpio will struggle with 4K like the X1 struggles with 1080p right now.
I own a 4K TV but I just want better graphics/framerate at 1080p and then true 4K with PS5 in 2020.
 
Oct 23, 2013
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I'm all for Sony not holding back and going for the $499 price point if it means we get a significant CPU improvement.

Shu called the Neo the "high-end PS4"

Bring us the "high-end" Sony... forget about option 1 if we aren't going to see a big performance boost in open world titles.
 
Jun 26, 2009
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I'm all for Sony not holding back and going for the $499 price point if it means we get a significant CPU improvement.

Shu called the Neo the "high-end PS4"

Bring us the "high-end" Sony... forget about option 1 if we aren't going to see a big performance boost in open world titles.
So performance boost meaning 60 FPS in open world? That would be the most meaningful because AAA games (especially exclusive oone) already look incredible from a visual standpoint.
 
Mar 31, 2006
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We're not talking mass production, although what that validates is multiple dev kits at different specs which means, Neo is not finalized yet.
I'm not talking mass production. It costs possibly up to $200 million from what I've read to have a APU/SoC designed and engineered before it is sent for mass production. The options here are said to involve Jaguar+P10 or Zen+P10 so two options/two designs.

Unless Sony have negotiated a special deal with AMD and/or the two options are based on a single SoC design with tweaks i.e. the design has always been the same at two spec/clock levels and the dev kit Jaguar+P10 is just a temporary stop-gap until they decided on spec?

Either way I can't make head or tail of it.
 
Oct 27, 2013
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I hope they release it this year. Give it about 5TF and a better CPU and I'm happy. 4K will not be possible no matter what they put in there (considering a realistic price point). Even Scorpio will struggle with 4K like the X1 struggles with 1080p right now.
I own a 4K TV but I just want better graphics/framerate at 1080p and then true 4K with PS5 in 2020.
I second this, caus I feel we havnt reached the full potential of 1080p. Also I dont want to buy a new Tv just yet. And ontop of that, I hope the Ps4 ultra will release this year, so I dont have to buy 2 consoles early next year :p
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Let's say Scorpio is 6TF with 12GB of awesome RAM and an 8-core Zen, and launches holiday 2017 for $499. If Sony release more or less the same box at GDC next year, that'll be "too late" for them or something? Too late for what, exactly? What kind of massive damage are MS poised to do this holiday if Sony don't launch Neo first? There's this huge sense of urgency coming from everyone, but I have no idea why… =/
I think they need the monies for the fiscal year. Games and network division is huge in profits for them now.
 
Jun 26, 2014
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Nothing Sony is doing is reactionary to what MS is doing, there have always been two options. I would also like to stand by my original claim that the Scorpio will be more powerful than the Neo. (how much more is up for debate) In case it was forgotten the very first information I had for release dates was either Holiday this year or 1st quarter next year with a pin in March. (Stating it will be out before not during that month)

Talking to Diana and Bob (Hello Bob) the biggest problem is getting the price to the originally promised numbers. Sony does NOT want to revisit a $599 price point. Bob says internally they think waiting to Q1 would be best for helping them come in at the originally promised $499 and that's even if they decided to go for option B.

Also to people saying the specs are not final, they are final there are just two different specs. There are rumors that Sony is planning to release both machines I don't believe this will happen as it would be confusing as shit. Bob (Hello Bob) says one will likely be scrapped (so long blue pill) when the other goes into production. Also states that the form factor and casing could require them to use an external power brick this time around due to heating concerns.


Diana has no information at all about specifications, she also does not have anything suggesting Sony will release two separate skus outside of the OG PS4 and the Neo.

Edited to add: Sony will not be selling this machine at a loss. (Thanks Bob).
I'm not sure if a $499 or *gulp* $599 console is what Sony wants to do here. Also, let's not kid ourselves and pretend that everything you typed here doesn't sound extremely reactionary.
 
Jan 29, 2014
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Nothing Sony is doing is reactionary to what MS is doing, there have always been two options. I would also like to stand by my original claim that the Scorpio will be more powerful than the Neo. (how much more is up for debate) In case it was forgotten the very first information I had for release dates was either Holiday this year or 1st quarter next year with a pin in March. (Stating it will be out before not during that month)

Talking to Diana and Bob (Hello Bob) the biggest problem is getting the price to the originally promised numbers. Sony does NOT want to revisit a $599 price point. Bob says internally they think waiting to Q1 would be best for helping them come in at the originally promised $499 and that's even if they decided to go for option B.

Also to people saying the specs are not final, they are final there are just two different specs. There are rumors that Sony is planning to release both machines I don't believe this will happen as it would be confusing as shit. Bob (Hello Bob) says one will likely be scrapped (so long blue pill) when the other goes into production. Also states that the form factor and casing could require them to use an external power brick this time around due to heating concerns.


Diana has no information at all about specifications, she also does not have anything suggesting Sony will release two separate skus outside of the OG PS4 and the Neo.

Edited to add: Sony will not be selling this machine at a loss. (Thanks Bob).
Nothing is reactionary, but they have two models ready to go into production and have yet to decide which one as we approach the 11th hour...

If this did not seem like fantasy, I'd say it was very reactionary, but it's fantasy, so it's OK.
 
Feb 25, 2008
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So am I reading this right- Sony always had two PS4 Neo Specs in consideration.

The more expensive version was $499 with a 5.5 TF GPU + New CPU?
The cheaper model is $399 with the leaked dev specs?
Sony will not be taking a loss on either?

Nothing is reactionary, but they have two models ready to go into production and have yet to decide which one as we approach the 11th hour...

If this did not seem like fantasy, I'd say it was very reactionary, but it's fantasy, so it's OK.
Give the guy some credit, he was the first person to know about Neo and leak it's specs.
 
Feb 15, 2007
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I'm not sure if a $499 or *gulp* $599 console is what Sony wants to do here. Also, let's not kid ourselves and pretend that everything you typed here doesn't sound extremely reactionary.
So there are rumors and devkits of Sony going around for months, as well as Sony giving requirement of all games using higher spec from October 2016.

MS then suddenly announces XB Scorpio that you wont be able to buy for 1.5 years, and that nobody is testing or developing for yet since it basically does not exist yet.

And then somehow thats spun into Sony reacing to MS?

How does that work?


Pretty obvious that MS announced something to make people wait 1.5 years for their new console and not simply buy new PS4.
 
Jan 29, 2014
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Then you enlighten us with the facts then. Please do.

EDIT: I might be stupid at the moment. Not sure if I'm apprehending this correctly.
Well the dev kits are out and common sense fills in the rest.

Besides if Sony had a Scorpio killer launching this year or Q1 they would have said at their E3 conference. Just for a laugh, if nothing else.
 
Jan 29, 2014
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Give the guy some credit, he was the first person to know about Neo and leak it's specs.

I'm not calling him out, I'm calling out what he's been told. Two different models read to go into production, depending what they feel like at the last minute? R&D for two? Doesn't that sound like nonsense?
 
Feb 25, 2008
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I'm not calling him out, I'm calling out what he's been told. Two different models read to go into production, depending what they feel like at the last minute? R&D for two? Doesn't that sound like nonsense?
Sony doing research internally on two difference machines at two different price points doesn't sound insane. This is x86 and Sony hasn't committed to billion dollar investments of new, eccentric, esoteric technology. This is a predictable coarse of action.

In all seriousness, Sony would be dumb to NOT be testing multiple configurations and multiple price points. There main competitor is attempting to launch a "Premium" machine at 6 TF with all the bells and whistles available in Q4' 2017. Sony probably had the same options available ahead of time.

Besides Microsoft most likely has multiple machines at multiple price points as well. Before this year I never thought I'd see people in droves buy $150 controllers. People are buying machines in unison at $399 with the original PS4 hardware, so I don't think it's awful to assume a $499 SKU doing well as premium offering.
 

iTehDroiD

Neo Member
Oct 6, 2014
262
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Germany
So am I reading this right- Sony always had two PS4 Neo Specs in consideration.

The more expensive version was $499 with a 5.5 TF GPU + New CPU?
The cheaper model is $399 with the leaked dev specs?
Sony will not be taking a loss on either?



Give the guy some credit, he was the first person to know about Neo and leak it's specs.
Didn't osiris say a while back that the cheap variant was scrapped entirely? Now option a is an upgraded cpu for probably 499$ and option b is 599$ or more?

Edit: I'm referring to this post :http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=206446444&highlight=#post206446444
But I'm not sure whether I understand his response correctly.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Jun 10, 2004
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$499 huh? I was really expecting a $399 price point and $299 base PS4..
With the speed of 14nm maturing it sounds like a $599 fall option might just hit $499 in Q1 2017, then be down at $399 by the time Scorpio launched in Q3 2017.

The alternative would be a $499 fall 2016 machine or $399 by waitin for Q1, but it would be more noticeably lower spec than Scorpio
 
Dec 24, 2011
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I'm not calling him out, I'm calling out what he's been told. Two different models read to go into production, depending what they feel like at the last minute? R&D for two? Doesn't that sound like nonsense?
Basic devkits not representative of the final PS4 specs were sent out to developers to work with and even the launch games only used the hardware in it, before that Sony revealed the final specs of the PS4 which surprised even Sony devs. Same basis devkits are mostly sent out to devs which doesn't represent the PS4 Neo that will ship.
Sony will send out new devkits to developers like they did with the PS4 ones. The same situation of the regular PS4 will happen and OsirisBlack said expect same situation to happen in a previous post. Why is that nonsense?
 
Feb 25, 2008
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Didn't osiris say a while back that the cheap variant was scrapped entirely? Now option a is an upgraded cpu for probably 499$ and option b is 599$ or more?

Edit: I'm referring to this post :http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=206446444&highlight=#post206446444
But I'm not surewhether I understand his reposponse correctly.
From what I understand there are two options. A $399 Jaguar with 4.2 TF, and a $499 new CPU with 5.5 TF.

The new machine is $100 more because not only does it replace the CPU but it appears everything is clocked much higher across the board. Hence the GPU would see a much greater power draw, and the new CPU would require more power as well.

Oh well who knows -I like this rumor though because it really throws a wrench into the entire equation.
 
Jan 29, 2014
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Sony doing research internally on two difference machines at two different price points doesn't sound insane. This is x86 and Sony hasn't committed to billion dollar investments of new, eccentric, esoteric technology. This is a predictable coarse of action.

In all seriousness, Sony would be dumb to NOT be testing multiple configurations and multiple price points. There main competitor is attempting to launch a "Premium" machine at 6 TF with all the bells and whistles available in Q4' 2017. Sony probably had the same options available ahead of time.

Besides Microsoft most likely has multiple machines at multiple price points as well. Before this year I never thought I'd see people in droves buy $150 controllers. People are buying machines in unison at $399 with the original PS4 hardware, so I don't think it's awful to assume a $499 SKU doing well as premium offering.
But I'd say we were way past the research point with dev kits out and a tentative October launch. Besides they didn't know MS were going to announce anything, let alone show off their spec plan publicly, so why would they bother with the cost of developing two consoles, to the point of manufacture, just for the sake of it. All those materials and component contracts must be already in place.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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I'm not talking mass production. It costs possibly up to $200 million from what I've read to have a APU/SoC designed and engineered before it is sent for mass production. The options here are said to involve Jaguar+P10 or Zen+P10 so two options/two designs.
Is Zen even ready? AMD is not releasing Zen desktop until Dec/Jan, nevermind mobile or APUs.
 

iTehDroiD

Neo Member
Oct 6, 2014
262
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From what I understand there are two options. A $399 Jaguar with 4.2 TF, and a $499 new CPU with 5.5 TF.

The new machine is $100 more because not only does it replace the CPU but it appears everything is clocked much higher across the board. Hence the GPU would see a much greater power draw, and the new CPU would require more power as well.

Oh well who knows -I like this rumor though because it really throws a wrench into the entire equation.
Option b is definitely more that 499$ as osiris indicated several times. He said it would have about 5.5TF but at a price Sony is not hapy with at all.
 
Feb 25, 2008
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But I'd say we were way past the research point with dev kits out and a tentative October launch. Besides they didn't know MS were going to announce anything, let alone show off their spec plan publicly, so why would they bother with the cost of developing two consoles, to the point of manufacture, just for the sake of it. All those materials and component contracts must be already in place.
I think your being way too presumptive. If the orders and production lines were in place we'd have already gotten our first leaks from China by now. Sony stalling and not talking says MORE than any thing else.

The original PS4 (Orbis) had 2 GB of GDDR5 in its first devkits with a SLI GPU configuration, it was later upped to 4 GB of GDDR5, and officially ended up on "announcement" at 8 GB GDDR5 with a changed CPU from Piledriver to Jaguar. No one saw it coming.

Things can change.
 
Jan 29, 2014
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Basic devkits not representative of the final PS4 specs were sent out to developers to work with and even the launch games only used the hardware in it, before that Sony revealed the final specs of the PS4 which surprised even Sony devs. Same basis devkits are mostly sent out to devs which doesn't represent the PS4 Neo that will ship.
Sony will send out new devkits to developers like they did with the PS4 ones. The same situation of the regular PS4 will happen and OsirisBlack said expect same situation to happen in a previous post. Why is that nonsense?
A Ram bump is not quite the same
 

jett

D-Member
Jun 6, 2004
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There is nothing about the Neo info out there that requires a 599 or even 499 pricepoint. If Sony chooses either, then they're being mad greedy.
 
Jan 29, 2014
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I think your being way too presumptive. If the orders and production lines were in place we'd have already gotten our first leaks from China by now. Sony stalling and not talking says MORE than any thing else.

The original PS4 (Orbis) had 2 GB of GDDR5 in its first devkits with a SLI GPU configuration, it was later upped to 4 GB of GDDR5, and officially ended up on "announcement" at 8 GB GDDR5 with a changed CPU from Piledriver to Jaguar. No one saw it coming.

Things can change.
I think we'll just have to wait and see.
 
Dec 24, 2011
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A Ram bump is not quite the same
The first PS4 devkits even had different CPU than the final PS4 one.

I think your being way too presumptive. If the orders and production lines were in place we'd have already gotten our first leaks from China by now. Sony stalling and not talking says MORE than any thing else.

The original PS4 (Orbis) had 2 GB of GDDR5 in its first devkits with a SLI GPU configuration, it was later upped to 4 GB of GDDR5, and officially ended up on "announcement" at 8 GB GDDR5 with a changed CPU from Piledriver to Jaguar. No one saw it coming.

Things can change.
Even the PS3 first devkits had such SLI-GPU configuration. Even worse, PS3 was going to have 4 CELL processors but they opted for the Nvidia RSX in the last minute instead.
 

iTehDroiD

Neo Member
Oct 6, 2014
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There is nothing about the Neo info out there that requires a 599 or even 499 pricepoint. If Sony chooses either, then they're being mad greedy.
Why? I think 499$ would be the perfect price. People that count each penny before buying a console are not the target market of this machine anyway. People that really want better graphics etc. are willing to spend more that 400$ if that means we get more power than for a neo at 399$. The people that don't want to spend much money on a console can still buy the standard ps4
 
Jul 19, 2013
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There is nothing about the Neo info out there that requires a 599 or even 499 pricepoint. If Sony chooses either, then they're being mad greedy.
Hmm, please enlighten us on how much a 4-5 tf apu costs then please. Along with all the other components, shipping, r&d, etc. I'm looking forward to your analysis with sources