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Digital Foundry : Nioh 2 on PS4/PS4 Pro - Three Performance Modes, Two Consoles Tested!

Armorian

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I hate that consoles are holding pc games back. Can't wait till next gen, but then it'll happen all over again. :(

First Nioh looks average and eats PC gpus for breakfast (maximum settings 2560x1080 is hovering around ~70% GPU usage on GTX1070 with 60fps limit) so it's just shit engine TN uses (and it was PS3 game at first in development since 2006, like Versus XIII...) and console limitations holding back this game.
 
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Apr 27, 2018
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Ah crap, didn’t know that.
It's also published by Koei so they own the IP, Sony is only publishing the console version.

Hence why the first one came to PC and why this may too. Just FYI.

First Nioh looks average and eats PC gpus for breakfast (maximum settings 2560x1080 is hovering around ~70% GPU usage on GTX1070 with 60fps limit) so it's just shit engine TN uses (and it was PS3 game at first in development since 2006, like Versus XIII...) and console limitations holding back this game.

Lol. I disagree, Koei is just not so good at porting to PC or optimizing it enough.
 
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Armorian

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Lol. I disagree, Koei is just not so good at porting to PC or optimizing it enough.

They are not good at it for sure but lets be real, Nioh looks like slighty upgraded PS3 game - it should run in 1080p/60 on standard PS4 (okay, maybe with drops to 900p) yet it struggles to do that in 720p (standard PS3 resolution). IDK why it's that heavy but it translates to PC, back when it launched no GPU was able to run it in 4K/60:

 
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Armorian

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No it fucking doesn't. Get your eyes and/or your memory tested.

This is PS3 game running in 1080p on PS4 (only major difference in graphics according to DF test of NDC), 60 fps of course:



This is maxed out Nioh on PC in 2560x1080 with added SMAA (no AA in retail):



Both are linear games with few enemies on the screen at max. But maybe DS2 comparison will be better, I don't think it does look much worse than Nioh (first) but it runs at 1080p in (mostly) stable 60 fps:

 
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Aion002

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This is PS3 game running in 1080p on PS4 (only major difference in graphics according to DF test of NDC), 60 fps of course:



This is maxed out Nioh on PC in 2560x1080 with added SMAA (no AA in retail):



Both are linear games with few enemies on the screen at max. But maybe DS2 comparison will be better, I don't think it does look much worse than Nioh (first) but it runs at 1080p in (mostly) stable 60 fps:


I love Nioh but you are completely right.

Koei Tecmo freaking sucks at optimization, they always did... People seems to have forgotten Ninja Gaiden on PS360.

Koei is so incompetent in that aspect, that even games like Nobunaga Ambition and Romance of the The Three Kingdoms suffers from optimizations on consoles... and those are almost board games...

Still, this game is amazing, if you can get pass the technical issues, he is a goty contender.
 
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Endless Fluff

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This is PS3 game running in 1080p on PS4 (only major difference in graphics according to DF test of NDC), 60 fps of course:



This is maxed out Nioh on PC in 2560x1080 with added SMAA (no AA in retail):



Both are linear games with few enemies on the screen at max. But maybe DS2 comparison will be better, I don't think it does look much worse than Nioh (first) but it runs at 1080p in (mostly) stable 60 fps:

Oh, look, it's the "let's pick the most unfavorable looking screenshot to prove I'm right"-post.

Here some NVidia Ansel screenshots of Nioh.





Nioh is certainly behind Uncharted 4 and while it doesn't look quite as good as it does on Ansel/Photo mode screenshots, it sure as hell looks way better than PS360 gen games (the character models alone are a generation ahead) and Nioh 2 looks a lot better than Nioh because of the better lighting and other small improvements here and there.

I love Nioh but you are completely right.

Koei Tecmo freaking sucks at optimization, they always did... People seems to have forgotten Ninja Gaiden on PS360.

Koei is so incompetent in that aspect, that even games like Nobunaga Ambition and Romance of the The Three Kingdoms suffers from optimizations on consoles... and those are almost board games...

Still, this game is amazing, if you can get pass the technical issues, he is a goty contender.
I'm not saying that you're wrong, but it's obvious that Nioh 2 (and Nioh) were made with PS4 Pro as the target spec. They optimized for that console, not for base PS4. I wouldn't call them incompetent for that choice, but that's just my opinion.
 

Aion002

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I'm not saying that you're wrong, but it's obvious that Nioh 2 (and Nioh) were made with PS4 Pro as the target spec. They optimized for that console, not for base PS4. I wouldn't call them incompetent for that choice, but that's just my opinion.

I don't think that's the case, but if it is/was, it would be even worse. Ps4 (og) is capable of much more, technically, than what both games push.

Honestly, Dynasty Warriors is Koei main game, look at this:


They just don't care or... Unfortunately, like I said: Are terrible at optimization.
 

Clear

Deer/Dur
Feb 2, 2009
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This is PS3 game running in 1080p on PS4 (only major difference in graphics according to DF test of NDC), 60 fps of course:



This is maxed out Nioh on PC in 2560x1080 with added SMAA (no AA in retail):



Both are linear games with few enemies on the screen at max. But maybe DS2 comparison will be better, I don't think it does look much worse than Nioh (first) but it runs at 1080p in (mostly) stable 60 fps:


Uncharted is 30fps w/ dips. Dark Souls 2 hovered in the mid 20's on PS3 for long stretches, neither have close to the amount of particle work and vfx that Nioh does.
Find me some 60fps PS3 games or GTFO.

And seriously, the thing about Nioh's levels is that exist in multiple variations, each with its own lighting setup. For example the village area shown in the screenshot you cherry picked looks way more attractive in its alternate "sunset" mode, which is kinda significant especially when it seems you cannot tell the difference between technology and art-direction when judging visual quality.
 

Armorian

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Oh, look, it's the "let's pick the most unfavorable looking screenshot to prove I'm right"-post.

Here some NVidia Ansel screenshots of Nioh.





Nioh is certainly behind Uncharted 4 and while it doesn't look quite as good as it does on Ansel/Photo mode screenshots, it sure as hell looks way better than PS360 gen games (the character models alone are a generation ahead) and Nioh 2 looks a lot better than Nioh because of the better lighting and other small improvements here and there.

I posted gameplay pictures and yours are from photo mode (essientaly what ansel is) and obviously edited (sharpening for example). But anyway, this is a matter of preference in the end so I don't think we will come to any conclusion.

Uncharted is 30fps w/ dips. Dark Souls 2 hovered in the mid 20's on PS3 for long stretches, neither have close to the amount of particle work and vfx that Nioh does.
Find me some 60fps PS3 games or GTFO.

And seriously, the thing about Nioh's levels is that exist in multiple variations, each with its own lighting setup. For example the village area shown in the screenshot you cherry picked looks way more attractive in its alternate "sunset" mode, which is kinda significant especially when it seems you cannot tell the difference between technology and art-direction when judging visual quality.

I talked about "PS3 graphics level" games that are running on PS4 so I took PS3 games remeastered on PS4 to compare them with Nioh (on PC) and turns out they don't look much worse and run in native 1080p/60 fps on regular console. Only tech Nioh has that is current gen are screen space reflections. Geometry and shadow quality is not that much better than in some PS3 games (Uncharted has better shadows for example), textures are (thanks to 10x bigger memory pool) but they still look crappy in comparison with different 8th generation games.

I will give you example of great looking PS4 game that runs 60 fps in native 1080p - MGS5, it even has better shadow technology than Nioh and is open world.
 
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Ceadeus

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Anyone playing Nioh 2 on base PS4/Slim would tell me how it plays and look in performance mode? I don't feel like buying a PS4 Pro , is it any good on OG PS4
 

D.Final

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I think that these are 2 cool games that can be played in the white days of the first Ps5 years
 

Clear

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I will give you example of great looking PS4 game that runs 60 fps in native 1080p - MGS5, it even has better shadow technology than Nioh and is open world.

Yeah, but lets be honest, MGSV was an outlier performance wise all gen long, (can you think of another 60fps open world game?) and most importantly only ran at 30fps on PS3.

The plain fact is that there's only so much that optimization can accomplish. You can't pull fill-rate out of a hat, the GPU absolutely has to be capable of drawing that much in the designated time-frame. Most importantly, what's being drawn matters. Being "open world" only adds complication because games of that type generally are less able to control draw-load because the same scenery/action can be viewed from almost any angle or distance. MGS5 is a technical masterpiece in how it balances stuff, but even that game runs into problems when it has to deal with lots of transparencies (like during storms) which place additional demands on fill-rate and memory bandwidth beyond just drawing scene geometry and entities within it.

Ironically drawing vast vistas is much more manageable because you can use LOD and occlusion tricks to save on distant objects, making it more of a data driven problem to solve. Nioh on the other hand tends to constantly fill the screen with transparencies, particles, and full screen vfx. Stuff that is so close to the camera that you cannot hide it, and what's worse it all scales linearly (or worse due to overdraw) based on resolution and framerate.