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Digital Foundry: Thief for Xbox One edges out the PS4 version

benny_a

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Apr 25, 2009
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Everyone preaches the DF analysis and how good they are, yet now they messed up somehow?
I don't. I haven't done that for at least 9 months now. So... Try again? Maybe this time make your post a little bit more specific.
 

Pop

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Nov 20, 2011
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I JUST watched this cutscene on the PS4 and there was no texture streaming issue with that red flag. I have an upgraded 1.5 tb HDD (same RPM as stock) with a full install of the game.
Yeah the majority of us know, others just like throwing jabs when they're obviously wrong. DF seemed to not have the game on Ps4 installed all the way before playing and if that's the case, pretty shoddy job.
 
Jun 8, 2013
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While your analogy is correct from your perspective, his if im correct is based on hardware power, we are not seeing the evidence in this game that the developers used the 40%+ GPU advantage + Ram bandwidth etc, ie hardware, not software.
Isn't that the devs fault though? Some developers choose what they want to use or not. This was noticed last gen and it's going through in this gen. What's more sad is, now that the architectures are the same, what really is the excuse? The only reason why I can't particularly come to hard on Thief is mostly because they probably had a short dev cycle, smaller budget and less time to spend with both systems that likely caused this issue. However, when games like Destiny and Infamous or even The Order , Watch Dogs, etc...And they either run and look like crap or run and look amazing will show the true truth in whether that hardware bump made the difference. I'm inclined to believe that that will be true.
 

plagiarize

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May 24, 2006
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While your analogy is correct from your perspective, his if im correct is based on hardware power, we are not seeing the evidence in this game that the developers used the 40%+ GPU advantage + Ram bandwidth etc, ie hardware, not software.
aren't we?

look, say your game doesn't meet your performance targets on one of your platforms at 1080p, so you drop it down to 900p instead, and then find you still have a little overhead to turn up one or two things you weren't getting originally at 1080p.

or again, look at it the other way around. say you were targeting 900p but realize that on PS4 you have loads of overhead, so you try it at native resolution on that platform and it isn't quite where you want it to be performance wise, so you decide to drop AF and that gets you native output and you decide native output is better than AF.

the only reason for the game to run at a higher resolution on PS4 is because the PS4 can run it at that resolution and the Xbox One can't. that might mean you have to tweak a few other things.

some things have high performance costs and only make subtle differences to the final output. some things have low performance costs and make big differences. people wait these things differently.

there is no logical reason to expect the PS4 version to NEVER perform worse than the Xbox One version, when there is a large resolution difference as there is here.
 

Frayne Daddy

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Nov 19, 2013
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I don't. I haven't done that for at least 9 months now. So... Try again? Maybe this time make your post a little bit more specific.
You are right should of just thought of u when I said that.

I have seen plenty of instances where people say "let's wait for the DF analysis" especially since the start of this generation.

Not mad, just seems a lot of people, myself included think they do a good job.
 
Nov 20, 2008
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Good question.. although personally i couldnt care less which console version they deem to be the "winner". All i care about is them patching the PS4's framerate and filtering, and sorting out the texture streaming issues (which i havnt noticed in the 3 or so hours iv spent with it), but damn, iv noticed the framerate, its terribly unstable.
Yeah the only thing that has bugged me is the slowdown sometimes when I crack open windows.
 

GribbleGrunger

Dreams in Digital
Oct 12, 2012
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Some salty in here.

Everyone preaches the DF analysis and how good they are, yet now they messed up somehow?

I'll chop this up to some terrible development, but then again who knows. Both systems look identical in most cases I find
Why are people salty? Most people are questioning DFs verdict in the face of the data DF have presented (and some they seem to have overlooked). One of the the problems seems to be resolved when the game is fully installed on the PS4. This verdict does not make sense at all.
 

Portugeezer

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Dec 11, 2008
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some things are better, some things are worse. the performance costs of each of those things is something we can only make educated guesses at. which looks better and which looks worse is a matter of opinion in cases like this. this isn't a case like Strider where the Xbox One version undoubtedly wins, or Tomb Raider where the PS4 version undoubtedly wins. Here we have pros and cons on both sides, so choosing a winner is based on how you weight those pros and cons against each other, and that's a matter of opinion.
My point was a generalisation, not specific to this game. It was a response to someones comment about how some games will look better on Xbox One and some games will look better on PS4; from my understanding these is no reason for the former to be true, maybe someone could point out maybe why a game would ever look better on Xbox One without it coming down to less than adequate programming/bugs.

Strider looking better on XB1 just should not be the case, Tomb Raider looking better on PS4 is the expected outcome.
 
Jun 21, 2013
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So glad I didn't buy this. Can't support developer incompetence
and I hear the game is pretty damn bad too, dat 60s metacritic
In hindsight this may be the sort of game where we go "why the fuck did we care either way?" if it still plays mediocre.

My point was a generalisation, not specific to this game. It was a response to someones comment about how some games will look better on Xbox One and some games will look better on PS4; from my understanding these is no reason for the former to be true, maybe someone could point out maybe why a game would ever look better on Xbox One without it coming down to less than adequate programming/bugs.

Strider looking better on XB1 just should not be the case, Tomb Raider looking better on PS4 is the expected outcome.
I get how you feel; there's nothing massively demanding technically from Strider or Thief III to the point where the PS4 shouldn't be able to have the better-looking version. That being said, we might as well get used to these stray cats, because they will be popping up from time to time throughout the gen.

Developer priorities and whatnot; whether those priorities come down to dev. environment preference or financial incentives is another issue altogether, because realistically it shouldn't come down to technical capacity (one platform has more of it and better).

Anyways, I'm ready now. There'll be some...interesting....multiplat comparisons coming every once in a while this gen.
 

chadskin

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May 27, 2013
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For the record: From what I heard (and please correct me if it's not true), upon booting the game the installation begins and you have no ability to play while it installs in the background.
There's also no "full install" or whatever, it already takes 30 minutes or so anyway. And even if there was, DF wouldn't be so dumb to not notice and mention it.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
Dec 7, 2006
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Yeah the majority of us know, others just like throwing jabs when they're obviously wrong. DF seemed to not have the game on Ps4 installed all the way before playing and if that's the case, pretty shoddy job.
Oh man, you have got to be kidding me. *slaps forehead*

chadskin, usually PS4 games install in the background quietly.
 

TheRealTalker

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Mar 29, 2013
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Have any PS4 exclusives had anisotropic filtering missing?
I'm gonna guess a big fat "no". I mean look at the Killzone SF images in the console screenshots thread. This is clearly a case of a developer error. I wouldn't be surprised if they patched in better texture filtering.
here is some KZ SF panoramic shots by HolyFridge over at the ScreenShot thread

I don't see any issues with AF

with my play-through too I didn't see any noticeable blurred roads, etc..


Edit: This is also a good one.... the last shot's floor isn't as clustered as the others
These are my favorite KZ screenshots that i took so far.


 

shandy706

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May 3, 2011
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Record it for us so we can expose DF as frauds. Doing a comparison while the PS4 version is still installing just stinks of Leadbetter.
You're confused on what DF was talking about. We all know, including DF, that UE has texture loading problems.

That's not what they were harping on. They were talking about texture filtering. That's a different subject, and the problem that they were pointing out. Which does exist.
 

Mrbob

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You are right should of just thought of u when I said that.

I have seen plenty of instances where people say "let's wait for the DF analysis" especially since the start of this generation.

Not mad, just seems a lot of people, myself included think they do a good job.
What is crazy is I didn't realize digital foundry wielded this kind of power until the next generation started. I had no idea they existed last gen.

I guess they are nice for console comparisons, so I'll check them out just to see how the ports are. However, their analysis never does it for me. I'll stick to sites like Anandtech or HardOCP.
 
Jun 8, 2013
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You are right should of just thought of u when I said that.

I have seen plenty of instances where people say "let's wait for the DF analysis" especially since the start of this generation.

Not mad, just seems a lot of people, myself included think they do a good job.
People say this because I mean, besides them and Gamersyde, some people do latch on to their "analysis". The same people calling it bias today are the same people praising it when it's in their favor.

I think they are okay. However their analysis doesn't stop me from playing the game on any platform.
 

Jedi2016

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Nov 10, 2011
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For the record: From what I heard (and please correct me if it's not true), upon booting the game the installation begins and you have no ability to play while it installs in the background.
Only on multiplayer games. Single-player games will allow you to install in the background. The game knows you'll be on the first level, so it installs that one first (takes seconds) and installs the rest of the game while you're running through the first level. The entire install only takes a few minutes anyway, it's a lot faster than people think.

The question about that red banner is A) was the game installing at the time, and B) does the problem still exist if you exit and reload the level?
 

BibiMaghoo

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Yea, I do agree that it is sub-par, and I don't want to give off the impression that I'm agreeing with what TheKayle says, because I think he's crazy, lol.

I just disagreed with the idea that devs can't view different console audiences differently (not necessarily claiming that they actually made a decision based on this). I think we've seen plenty on this forum from people like Dennis, to see that often what will be important to say a PC gamer, isn't the same as someone using the Wii U as their main console, and I think devs are often aware of this too. I just think the average PS4 user is more likely to be put off by a game not being 1080p than the average XB1 user.
Yes, I do not disagree. The expectation is set by the norm, so a norm of 1080p on one platform will result in an expectation to meet that res on that platform, same with 900p, or 720p. If it is the norm - set by it's own results - then it is to be expected.

I think our view only differs in that I see every console manufacturer at this time, wanting to meet a requirement set for years by our screens. They all have HDMI ports and support 1080p, though I do not know if all consoles do this natively, I think they do. Is the Xbone dash native 1080P? And the WiiU? I would be surprised if not. If so, then they clearly do want to meet this standard, and technical limitations are what prohibits them from doing so in games. I would be appalled at a console dashboard or UI in 2014 that was not native 1080p, because there would surely be no reason for it. I cannot think of a single example were this is the case, unless those consoles UI's are not 1080p.
 

Frayne Daddy

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Nov 19, 2013
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People say this because I mean, besides them and Gamersyde, some people do latch on to their "analysis". The same people calling it bias today are the same people praising it when it's in their favor.

I think they are okay. However their analysis doesn't stop me from playing the game on any platform.
I agree. I tend to watch an analysis for fun, but doesn't sway my decision at all. It's something interesting to talk about.
 

chadskin

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May 27, 2013
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Only on multiplayer games. Single-player games will allow you to install in the background. The game knows you'll be on the first level, so it installs that one first (takes seconds) and installs the rest of the game while you're running through the first level. The entire install only takes a few minutes anyway, it's a lot faster than people think.

The question about that red banner is A) was the game installing at the time, and B) does the problem still exist if you exit and reload the level?
That's down to the game, though, I believe. With the technical state Thief is in, I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't support "play as you install".
Again, Thief installation takes up to 30 minutes.
 

plagiarize

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May 24, 2006
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here is some KZ SF panoramic shots by HolyFridge over at the ScreenShot thread



I don't see any issues with AF

with my play-through too I didn't see any noticeable blurred roads, etc..


Edit: This is also a good one.... the last shot's floor isn't as clustered as the others
from the developers own mouth, KZ uses varying levels of AF, generally between 1x (aka off) and 4x, but in some instances going up to 16x. they use it where it makes sense to use it, but there are definitely parts where it isn't used.
 

ypo

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Jun 8, 2004
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with normal maps and shadows popping in later on the Sony platform especially.
Even their own video says otherwise. Shadows in the Xbone version (items on the right) popped in later and the LOD on the cart on top popped in twice. WTF?

 

chadskin

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It's in German, but estimated installation time at the bottom reads over an hour, with the actual time being roughly half an hour.
 

TheRealTalker

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from the developers own mouth, KZ uses varying levels of AF, generally between 1x (aka off) and 4x, but in some instances going up to 16x. they use it where it makes sense to use it, but there are definitely parts where it isn't used.
I see thanks for the info :)
 

watership

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Man, higher resolution means nothing if the textures are gonna be blurry looking.
Is it possible that there is a recent demand from Sony to push all games to 1080p, and Thief being a u optimized mess, lead them to drop the filtering to achieve that?
 

Kuro

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Jun 12, 2013
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from the developers own mouth, KZ uses varying levels of AF, generally between 1x (aka off) and 4x, but in some instances going up to 16x. they use it where it makes sense to use it, but there are definitely parts where it isn't used.
I'm pretty sure they meant LoDs on models.
 

RoboPlato

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from the developers own mouth, KZ uses varying levels of AF, generally between 1x (aka off) and 4x, but in some instances going up to 16x. they use it where it makes sense to use it, but there are definitely parts where it isn't used.
Interesting. Didn't hear this before.
 

Vizzeh

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Jun 17, 2013
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there is no logical reason to expect the PS4 version to NEVER perform worse than the Xbox One version, when there is a large resolution difference as there is here.

Yeah your correct, there can be instances, but so far because we don't understand why the dev made the choices they did, we just have logical opinions facing off against eachother,

Here is a long list of the FPS + Resolution differences, in a simplistic form, the vast majority of these games had no texture streaming issues, PS4 had 33% extra pixels @ Double the frame rate at times 30v60, we just do not see this power advantage evident in thief or seeming justified in better visuals/performance, even whilst some of these games are using various decent forms of AA

http://uk.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS4_vs._Xbox_One_Native_Resolutions_and_Framerates
 

Chobel

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Is it possible that there is a recent demand from Sony to push all games to 1080p, and Thief being a u optimized mess, lead them to drop the filtering to achieve that?
you can do AF without a performance hit usually (worst case scenario a few frames drop) and you keep 1080p.
 

Mike Golf

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Sep 12, 2013
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here is some KZ SF panoramic shots by HolyFridge over at the ScreenShot thread



I don't see any issues with AF

with my play-through too I didn't see any noticeable blurred roads, etc..


Edit: This is also a good one.... the last shot's floor isn't as clustered as the others
Man those are great screens, so the original poster combined the screen gabs together for those to make one shot? Makes me want to boot up SF just looking at them.

@Watership, the thing here is that on low to mid to high range modern GPUs AF has a negligible to zero impact on FPS. I am currently running a 7970 ghz but even my 2010 iMac's HD 5750 at 1440p had no discernible performance impact running games at 16x AF. So seeing a less refined version of filtering being used for this, or any game this gen, is perplexing. Just look at Strider, not a heavy resource game on modern GPU's at the least and it's completely missing AF on the PS4 while it is present on the Xbone with all other graphical features, to include resolution, being equal. It just doesn't add up.
 

amdnv

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May 28, 2011
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Probably just the way HolyFridge merges images to get his panoramic images, but I wouldn't know.

That wouldn't improve AF anyway.
It has nothing to do with merging, the images are clearly sharpened. But you're right, it was offtopic as I was just curious.

I... can't really see them. My eyes suck at detail lol.
Check any silhouette against the sky. Sorry for OT, now back to work everyone :)