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Digitimes: Supply chain players gear up for new Nintendo console

Fourth Storm

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Even at 14nm, its unlikely. Samsung Galaxy S6 already has some troubles to maintain its GPU clockspeed to 770mhz, making it a 192gflops part without throttlinh to 400mhz or so.

I feel like gflops are meaningless when we start talking about different architectures. What is in the S6? Mali? I highly doubt that pushes as many triangles (among other things) as even a severely underclocked Radeon.

Still, I agree. Clocks need to be low, although I feel like Japan might be accepting of an IPad Air-sized tablet. Even that one investor was asking for the 3DS to have screens a full 2x as large last year. That gives them a little more wiggle room.

The other thing we need to talk about is aspect ratio. There is no guarantee that it will be 16:9. Ipad Air is 4:3 and cell phone games often use vertical orientation. This does not stop devs from making games multiplatform in the slightest. 1024x768 is possible and probably very cheap at the right screen size.

Vertical orientation would also be key for 3DS BC, which they would be wise to include...
 

HarryKS

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Nintendo's like that person in Deal or No Deal who can take 200k home but decides to bet the house on the 5% chance of winning 1 million.
 

GhostTrick

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Jan 11, 2012
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I feel like gflops are meaningless when we start talking about different architectures. What is in the S6? Mali? I highly doubt that pushes as many triangles (among other things) as even a severely underclocked Radeon.

Still, I agree. Clocks need to be low, although I feel like Japan might be accepting of an IPad Air-sized tablet. Even that one investor was asking for the 3DS to have screens a full 2x as large last year. That gives them a little more wiggle room.

The other thing we need to talk about is aspect ratio. There is no guarantee that it will be 16:9. Ipad Air is 4:3 and cell phone games often use vertical orientation. This does not stop devs from making games multiplatform in the slightest. 1024x768 is possible and probably very cheap at the right screen size.

Vertical orientation would also be key for 3DS BC, which they would be wise to include...



Thats why in the grand scheme of things, I expect them to have 3 form factors:
Handheld, tablet with attached controller, home console.
 
Sep 23, 2004
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I just tried to go to see what else was said about that Tamaki's tweet and, thus, I discovered he blocked me. Funny.

Looking back through his tweets I think he was talking about Backwards Compatibility. He last spoke on hardware power about a month and some change before that tweet so I doubt its related.
 

Rodin

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Looking back through his tweets I think he was talking about Backwards Compatibility. He last spoke on hardware power about a month and some change before that tweet so I doubt its related.

He most definitely was referring to the hardware comment, he even said "remember my post?". The BC tweet was a joke, it's recent and he didn't say anything meaningful between the NX power stuff and the BC joke, so...
 

Reallink

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Jan 7, 2008
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I wonder:

$149.00 handheld
$249.00 console =
$400 for the "hardcore" Nintendo fan to have both.

Same power on both, same cartridges, Handheld acts as controller for Console, but Console has regular controller for those that never buy the handheld?

Thoughts?

Can the NX handheld deliver enough punch in 2016 for $150 dollars? If so they'll probably have a Homerun so to speak out of the gate. I wouldn't be surprised if the handheld NX (HHNX) was just one screen; abandoning the Dual screens in favor of BEING the second screen when coupled with the CNX (console).

WAT? "Same power on both", I'm assuming you mean the same specs/guts? Why in the flying fuck would a portable with a screen, higher build quality/materials (required for shit you hold in your hand), and much tighter engineering/manufacturing tolerances be $100 less?
 

kpzero

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WAT? "Same power on both", I'm assuming you mean the same specs/guts? Why in the flying fuck would a portable with a screen, higher build quality/materials (required for shit you hold in your hand), and much tighter engineering/manufacturing tolerances be $100 less?

Fairly certain that "same power on both" means same power in relation to resolution.
 

Terrell

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I'm starting to become a bit more hopeful, based on Matt's report that the price will not be $149 and ShockingAlberto's report that they did not make the console intentionally underpowered. I think we will see something in the ballpark of Xbone, if not a little bit weaker. Strong enough for ports regardless.

K, I missed this somehow, so someone is going to need to brief me on this disclosure, since it basically dissolves most theories about what Nintendo has planned for their console if there's any meat to it.

There is the possibility of room in the market, as Xbox One has predictably tanked in Japan and is underperforming in other regions as well. If both PS4 and Xbox One were enjoying huge sales worldwide, it would be a different story, but if Nintendo comes out w/ a system that is a PS2 vs the competitions' Gamecube/Xbox, they might stand a chance. Everything else would have to fall into place, but they might stand a chance.

This has been a big point of mine all along. There's so much ground to cover and win in Japan, it's not even funny, and a true alternative to the PlayStation brand in Europe could be just what people are ready for.

Why not, GhostTrick? While I never expect them to abandon their value of being "unique," I think they realize that a home console requires a little more juice to garner support. I don't agree that they are going to make a "Nintendo box." They know they need third party support in some capacity, and the days of asking developers to tailor a game especially for their system are long gone.

Unless a boatload of money is involved, anyways, but that's not a sustainable way to do things. Never really was, but especially not now.
 

Koren

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Unless a boatload of money is involved, anyways, but that's not a sustainable way to do things. Never really was, but especially not now.
When assembly was a standard way to program consoles with exotic architectures, I'm not sure multiplatforms was the best way to do things.
 

Fourth Storm

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K, I missed this somehow, so someone is going to need to brief me on this disclosure, since it basically dissolves most theories about what Nintendo has planned for their console if there's any meat to it.
Here's the post: http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=170937503&postcount=2007
So based on this, I am hoping for something strong enough to get ports of AAA at 720p. A PS2 to the competitions' Xbox, as I stated in the above post. I don't expect them to throw their value of "efficiency" out the window, though.
This has been a big point of mine all along. There's so much ground to cover and win in Japan, it's not even funny, and a true alternative to the PlayStation brand in Europe could be just what people are ready for.
We should never count them out. That's for sure. Some lessons must have been learned from the Wii U. There's also the quote from Takeda talking about how they can no longer build hardware just for Japan.
Unless a boatload of money is involved, anyways, but that's not a sustainable way to do things. Never really was, but especially not now.

Even with the boatloads of money Sony/MS spend, we are seeing mostly exclusive DLC and timed exclusivity. For Nintendo to outright buy an exclusive AAA 3rd party title would be nearly unprecedented in this day and age.
 

Terrell

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We should never count them out. That's for sure. Some lessons must have been learned from the Wii U. There's also the quote from Takeda talking about how they can no longer build hardware just for Japan.

K, that's another quote I'm going to need pulled for me, because that's also quite good at blowing a lot of the stuff said in these threads away.

Bayonetta 2?

Not exactly a project that anyone was clambering to spend money on and was likely secured for cheap. Sony and Microsoft would have already had their chance when it was first cancelled.
 

Fourth Storm

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K, that's another quote I'm going to need pulled for me, because that's also quite good at blowing a lot of the stuff said in these threads away.
Takeda's entire statement for context:
Takeda said:
In recent years, I have been trying to let younger people make decisions as much as possible. While there are times when I want to give input, I have been trying to be patient and focus on observing how the younger people work.

Even in Silicon Valley, the core technology that is researched and developed has shifted from the area of semi-conductors. Engineers and developers should not do their research just by thinking about what technology has traditionally been relevant to them. Today’s engineers and developers must look into more diverse fields, including cloud and software-related technology. We discussed a bit about our QOL project today, which uses different technology than what Nintendo has traditionally used. And each one of these different technologies is showing independent progress in its own field. The world of technology has been quickly evolving – every one of us has to be as flexible as possible, even to the extent that we have to rethink what we have firmly said before. This is a global movement. We cannot afford to say things such as, “We are Japanese and we only need to think about Japan.” We are having these talks inside the company and nurturing individuals who will be able to make decisions as to what technology we should pursue. I say “individuals” because I believe that the right decisions (to judge the future of technology) cannot be made by a majority vote. I personally want to make sure that the individuals who succeed us will take on challenges that even if they eventually end up being failures, will not be felt as if they were throwing money down the drain. In other words, even if these challenges fail, they will gain something valuable they can use in future projects. This is the spirit we have at Nintendo that, in my opinion, might even be thought as a part of our DNA: If we spend money as if we are throwing it down the drain, we won’t be able to seize the right opportunity when it, by a stroke of good fortune, is presented to us. I hope this sprit will be inherited and that future challenges will still be bold ones. For this next generation of individuals, I am being patient, and I believe Mr. Miyamoto sitting next to me is as well. I believe that we are now at a stage where the next generation is steadily growing.
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/141030qa/03.html
 
Jun 11, 2006
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Wow. Everyone moves the goalposts!

The example is valid. Nintendo *could* make a habit of funding and producing sequels to cult classics as exclusives. Psychonauts 2, Maniac Mansion 3, Final Fantasy 7 Remake, and Shenmue 3 are all projects that would be very high profile, even if they weren't directly moneymakers. Could be worth a lot of mindshare.
 

Mpl90

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K, that's another quote I'm going to need pulled for me, because that's also quite good at blowing a lot of the stuff said in these threads away.



Not exactly a project that anyone was clambering to spend money on and was likely secured for cheap. Sony and Microsoft would have already had their chance when it was first cancelled.

Also, remember what Iwata said back in May

Your question also included the "current notion of thinking about home consoles and handheld devices." When it comes to how dedicated game systems are being played, the situations have become rather different, especially between Japan and overseas. Since we are always thinking about how to create a new platform that will be accepted by as many people around the world as possible, we would like to offer to them "a dedicated video game platform with a brand new concept" by taking into consideration various factors, including the playing environments that differ by country. This is all that I can confirm today.
 

Eolz

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Here's the post: http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=170937503&postcount=2007
So based on this, I am hoping for something strong enough to get ports of AAA at 720p. A PS2 to the competitions' Xbox, as I stated in the above post. I don't expect them to throw their value of "efficiency" out the window, though.

Love this thread, just nothing to contribute right now :p.
However, I had a question about this statement (link in the quote above): does this hint as a console that is not underpowered, or that to have the innovation that they want, the console had to become more underpowered than what they wanted it to be?
 
Apr 15, 2012
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Love this thread, just nothing to contribute right now :p.
However, I had a question about this statement (link in the quote above): does this hint as a console that is not underpowered, or that to have the innovation that they want, the console had to become more underpowered than what they wanted it to be?
That's a good question. Based on my own interpretation, I think he was alluding to the Wii U speculation days. Back then, I think a common sentiment was that the Xbox 360 was so old that Nintendo would purposely need to spend more on old parts to match that system. Essentially, with Wii U, Nintendo went out of their way to make Wii U an underpowered machine. This will not be the case with NX. That's how I read it, anyway.

Given the situation, I'm not confident that Nintendo will make a machine that's too close in performance to XB1 or PS4. I'm even concerned with the idea that maybe it'll be powerful enough to run AAA ports at 720p because if I recall correctly, that's the same thing people thought Wii U would be able to do.
 

Fourth Storm

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Love this thread, just nothing to contribute right now :p.
However, I had a question about this statement (link in the quote above): does this hint as a console that is not underpowered, or that to have the innovation that they want, the console had to become more underpowered than what they wanted it to be?

Hey, even if you don't have too much technical knowledge, you can still contribute. You never know where an idea will produce a productive branch of discussion.

I don't think we can read too much into that statement alone. It could still be "underpowered," but combine this with Matt's confirmation that it's at least stronger than Wii U and reports that 3rd party reception has been "positive," and it paints an optimistic portrait. I'm still expecting it to be the weakest of the 3 consoles in 2016, but hopefully it's at least in the ballpark and capable of getting ports, as we all hoped the Wii U would be.
 

L Thammy

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With regards to Nintendo picking up titles. Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third were both opportunistic: the two games were in development, but cancelled due to their publishers' financial problems. There's a certain amount of development already funded by the publisher, so Nintendo doesn't have to pay as much to get the complete game. It's probably also good for relationship building.
 

Vena

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With regards to Nintendo picking up titles. Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third were both opportunistic: the two games were in development, but cancelled due to their publishers' financial problems. There's a certain amount of development already funded by the publisher, so Nintendo doesn't have to pay as much to get the complete game. It's probably also good for relationship building.

With Platinum? Definitely. (Also Iwata and Kamiya were on great terms after the pick-up and partnership, and I am sure that will continue even with Iwata's passing.)

With Valhalla? Hahaha.
 

Turrican3

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The other thing we need to talk about is aspect ratio. There is no guarantee that it will be 16:9. Ipad Air is 4:3 and cell phone games often use vertical orientation. This does not stop devs from making games multiplatform in the slightest. 1024x768 is possible and probably very cheap at the right screen size.

Vertical orientation would also be key for 3DS BC, which they would be wise to include...
Hmm I've never thought about the possibility of a vertically oriented screen for the handheld NX... but I wonder if that would pose some extra hurdles on developers regarding the home NX version of (supposedly) cross platform titles, which I expect to be the vast majority of the lineup.

You explicitly mentioned multiplatform games so I suppose this is basically a non-issue, but I'd like to hear about your opinion anyway.
 

Eolz

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That's a good question. Based on my own interpretation, I think he was alluding to the Wii U speculation days. Back then, I think a common sentiment was that the Xbox 360 was so old that Nintendo would purposely need to spend more on old parts to match that system. Essentially, with Wii U, Nintendo went out of their way to make Wii U an underpowered machine. This will not be the case with NX. That's how I read it, anyway.

Given the situation, I'm not confident that Nintendo will make a machine that's too close in performance to XB1 or PS4. I'm even concerned with the idea that maybe it'll be powerful enough to run AAA ports at 720p because if I recall correctly, that's the same thing people thought Wii U would be able to do.

Hey, even if you don't have too much technical knowledge, you can still contribute. You never know where an idea will produce a productive branch of discussion.

I don't think we can read too much into that statement alone. It could still be "underpowered," but combine this with Matt's confirmation that it's at least stronger than Wii U and reports that 3rd party reception has been "positive," and it paints an optimistic portrait. I'm still expecting it to be the weakest of the 3 consoles in 2016, but hopefully it's at least in the ballpark and capable of getting ports, as we all hoped the Wii U would be.

Oh I see. Wonder what ShockingAlberto's interpretation of this statement is/was.
I also see it being in the same ballpark tbh (too soon to say anything more precise on the matter imo).
And yeah, will contribute later, just liked where the discussion was going and didn't see the need to add anything else on the matter :p . Some really interesting posts those last few pages. I'm far from having as much technical knowledge as some of you but still understand, and also understand some of the posts about third-parties, development, etc, from personal/professional experience.

With Platinum? Definitely. (Also Iwata and Kamiya were on great terms after the pick-up and partnership, and I am sure that will continue even with Iwata's passing.)

With Valhalla? Hahaha.

Well, LThammy isn't wrong. Despite Valhalla having many problems, and Devil's Third being released in this poor state, Itagaki and his team were still a reference in terms of mature action games. Nintendo is known for trusting more individuals than studio names, and this was probably the case here.
It also probably made sense to still release the game, to fill schedules and genre gaps. Nintendo will still want to get mature titles on their consoles, as long as they don't think they are fit in making those (which is a good strategy up to a point imo).

Doesn't differ that much from what they wanted to do with Platinum at first (or even Team Ninja before), apart from the final result, the quality and maybe the budget too of course.
 

Fourth Storm

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Hmm I've never thought about the possibility of a vertically oriented screen for the handheld NX... but I wonder if that would pose some extra hurdles on developers regarding the home NX version of (supposedly) cross platform titles, which I expect to be the vast majority of the lineup.

You explicitly mentioned multiplatform games so I suppose this is basically a non-issue, but I'd like to hear about your opinion anyway.

I wouldn't call it a non-issue, but it's not something which can't be solved in one way or another. I really don't know. Maybe they will work in an interchangeable control scheme like they have a patent for (MS kind of beat them to that, though, with the Elite controller). I really just wanted to throw it out there as a possibility that I hadn't seen get enough attention.

Oh I see. Wonder what ShockingAlberto's interpretation of this statement is/was.
I also see it being in the same ballpark tbh (too soon to say anything more precise on the matter imo).
And yeah, will contribute later, just liked where the discussion was going and didn't see the need to add anything else on the matter :p . Some really interesting posts those last few pages. I'm far from having as much technical knowledge as some of you but still understand, and also understand some of the posts about third-parties, development, etc, from personal/professional experience.

I don't think ShockingAlberto really knew what to make of the comment, himself. Looking forward to your future posts!
 

McHuj

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I guess I take the quote to imply that it is under powered, but it wasn't the goal to make it under powered. The other goals, whatever they were, made the console under powered. Which can maybe ok as we have no idea what the system is or isn't?

Also, it being stronger than the WiiU doesn't imply that it's not under powered. What are you comparing it to? Just the WiiU, xbone, iPad?