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Discussion: Can the 2080Ti be able to run PS5 &XSX games on ultra 4k ?

RaySoft

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gen4.0 pci-e 4x = 7.88 GB/s speeds. which is enough to cover Raw SSD speeds for both consoles. no need for more and putting less is to close to theoretical speed limits(for the XBSX)
Gotta love it when ppl just takes a number bigger than another and then call it a day. What about all the other hurdles the data has to "leap over" on PC?
Like software decompression, storage -> system ram -> gpu ram, driver latencies etc.. the list goes on.. And oh.. your number is just a theoretical one too.

All of the PCI-E Gen4.0 will use SRAM, again not PS5 Magic but more of a requirement to meet performance. even the current controllers have have SRAM
these things exist already.
What are you even talking about here? PCIe with embedded SRAM? Where?, for what?

The 2080ti is faster then the XBSX and PS5 GPU
and
pci-e gen3 SSDs will be slower than the PS5 SSD solution.
Again just comparing numbers, you WILL be surprised when Sony shows their 1st party games in a few days, and see with your own eyes what their "inferior" console can do.
When you have enough power to render as many polys as there are pixels on the screen and match that with using all your GPU budget on what's inside your frustom, it enables a greater gen-leap than many previous console gens. And the star of the show, that enables all this? Yep, Sony's storage solution.

We don't have to wait long, I can guarantee all you PC enthusiasts will have your hands full trying to "debate" how all that shit Sony showed would be possible on a PC:messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

pyrocro

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Gotta love it when ppl just takes a number bigger than another and then call it a day.
I don't know what I said to warrant this response.
You said.
We don't know how many PCIe lanes they are using, but since the GPU isn't taking up any, they have a few to pick from.
I was primarily talking about the DMA lanes from the SSD controller to the nands.
Sony probably used cheaper smaller nands, but used more of them, so wider bus = higher perf at a reasonable cost.
and I correct you, on all that false information. APU GPU's do use PCI-E lanes, the PS5 is 4x PCI-E, the DMA lines are called channels. and you don't know the NAND sony is using so how do you know how cheap it is.
What does taking a bigger number has todo with anything. so weird.
Rather than acknowledging the corrections, you mention a bunch of random stuff. soooo weird.

What about all the other hurdles the data has to "leap over" on PC?
Like software decompression, storage -> system ram -> gpu ram, driver latencies etc.. the list goes on.. And oh.. your number is just a theoretical one too.
now we're on to the PC. ok.
The hurdles exist
this is what DirectX12 Ultimate is trying to equalize, with DirectStorage. didn't we go through this a few posts back?
The PC has always had an efficiency handicap vs consoles, having faster hardware on the PC helps and I'm sure DirectX12 ultimate and whatever other middleware pops up will overcome these inefficiencies.
There is money to be made and someone will rise to the occasion.

What are you even talking about here? PCIe with embedded SRAM? Where?, for what?
I don't know what you don't understand here. current IO controllers have SRAM in them
you said
Too few DMA lanes for starters. You can basicly just see what Sony did. Lot's of custom I/O transistors in the APU (inc. ESRAM cache)
I said there are controllers out now with SRAM built into them and it's a given for PCI-Ec gen4 IO controllers.

Again just comparing numbers, you WILL be surprised when Sony shows their 1st party games in a few days, and see with your own eyes what their "inferior" console can do.
Where did I say the PS5 is inferior? Facts are the GPU and CPU is slower than XBSX, and the storage solution is Faster on PS5, no need to develop a complex over the facts.
Why do I have to wait to know that PS5 will have great 1st party games? news flash I don't have to wait, they will. and it will not be because of MAGIC. the hardware is guaranteed to the solid.
As a matter of fact, why does it have to be superior for it to be good?
you just need to get you facts straight and your facts are not.

When you have enough power to render as many polys as there are pixels on the screen and match that with using all your GPU budget on what's inside your frustom, it enables a greater gen-leap than many previous console gens. And the star of the show, that enables all this? Yep, Sony's storage solution.
Judging for the number of things you got wrong so far and by not displaying the ability to acknowledge them
should anyone take your proclamation seriously?


We don't have to wait long, I can guarantee all you PC enthusiasts will have your hands full trying to "debate" how all that shit Sony showed would be possible on a PC:messenger_tears_of_joy:
and there we have it another one breaks.
in the absence of facts you just say what's on your mind. you want sony to stick it to PC enthusiasts.

I just want them to have good games.
 

BusierDonkey

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We don't have to wait long, I can guarantee all you PC enthusiasts will have your hands full trying to "debate" how all that shit Sony showed would be possible on a PC:messenger_tears_of_joy:

I see lines similar to this at the start of every new gen, and a month after release I see the excuses as to why it never really panned out.

I guess we'll find out in six months.
 

DoctaThompson

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Why are consolebros so weird about this every single time.
It's as if they believe that hardware planned several years ago, will be superior to all hardware currently out, coming out later this year (including AMD 4000 cpu's and RDNA 2 gpu's), as well as hardware releasing in the next 7 years. Every. Single. Time. that DF has a comparison with pc, they say the developers are lazy, wait a couple of years to get used to the hardware, or that devs were paid off for the pc version.


And I'm just over here like




 

BusierDonkey

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It's as if they believe that hardware planned several years ago, will be superior to all hardware currently out, coming out later this year (including AMD 4000 cpu's and RDNA 2 gpu's), as well as hardware releasing in the next 7 years. Every. Single. Time. that DF has a comparison with pc, they say the developers are lazy, wait a couple of years to get used to the hardware, or that devs were paid off for the pc version.


And I'm just over here like





"I don't even see the difference" after watching a 30 fps 1080p compressed to shit YouTube video. Every single time.

It's beyond what you said too.

A console is hardware that's been planned for years, and has to meet a $600 or less retail budget while including a $60 controller.
 

Knch

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So you managed to count 12 "copper threads" from the picture and tried to be cute?
It's just there to represent each nands pinout, right?
I see an APU, the custom flash controller and the nand below it.


The nand and the nand memory controller in the flash controller would be connected with literal copper traces on the PCB.

But keep talking about DMA like you have any clue how any of this works.
 

ZywyPL

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Whoa, thx a lot D DoctaThompson for the gold membership!

lot of direct12u feature on the hardware are not utilized atm.
i expect to see my 1080ti cry when mesh shader become a thing.

EDIT: remember that at 1440 30 fps
now same resolution look at the fps and max lod number of triangle of this demo on 2080ti (it use lod but do you see pop in ?)


Someone posted a link recently detailing UE5 demo, that said it doesn't even use Mesh Shading, so both demos basically aim to achieve the same rendering results, the difference is one solution is software-based and the other hardware-based, with the latter obviously performing much better. I wonder what would be the result when combining both techniques (if possible). But yeah, that NV demo clearly shows how much untapped potential there still is within current RTX cards.
 
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martino

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Gotta love it when ppl just takes a number bigger than another and then call it a day. What about all the other hurdles the data has to "leap over" on PC?
Like software decompression, storage -> system ram -> gpu ram, driver latencies etc.. the list goes on.. And oh.. your number is just a theoretical one too.


What are you even talking about here? PCIe with embedded SRAM? Where?, for what?


Again just comparing numbers, you WILL be surprised when Sony shows their 1st party games in a few days, and see with your own eyes what their "inferior" console can do.
When you have enough power to render as many polys as there are pixels on the screen and match that with using all your GPU budget on what's inside your frustom, it enables a greater gen-leap than many previous console gens. And the star of the show, that enables all this? Yep, Sony's storage solution.

We don't have to wait long, I can guarantee all you PC enthusiasts will have your hands full trying to "debate" how all that shit Sony showed would be possible on a PC:messenger_tears_of_joy:

atm this narrative seems more pushed from a small "console user" group full of resentment on the power subject.
well there it is.gif

this gen must have been hard.
reading you this come to mind

but be happy this gen will be better for you for sure
 
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Caio

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I only know that the best looking Game developed specifically and exclusively for XSX will look better than any game running on a PC with a 2080 Ti.
That's why I'm buying a XSX and I'm not gonna waste my money for a ultra expensive PC.
 
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DoctaThompson

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I only know that the best looking Game developed specifically and exclusively for XSX will look better than any game running on a PC with a 2080 Ti.
That's why I'm buying a XSX and I'm not gonna waste my money for a ultra expensive PC.
Could you explain this? If some game for XSX looks better than Frogger HD on a PC with a 2080 Ti, does that mean the hardware of the XSX is suddenly more powerful than that PC?

Wouldn't a game specifically designed with a 2080 Ti in mind, absolutely blow the XSX away due to better hardware?
 
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martino

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Could you explain this? If some game for XSX looks better than Frogger HD on a PC with a 2080 Ti, does that mean the hardware of the XSX is suddenly more powerful than that PC?

Wouldn't a game specifically designed with a 2080 Ti in mind, absolutely blow the XSX away due to better hardware?
this consideration is irrelevant since it won't happen imo
 

diffusionx

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I only know that the best looking Game developed specifically and exclusively for XSX will look better than any game running on a PC with a 2080 Ti.
That's why I'm buying a XSX and I'm not gonna waste my money for a ultra expensive PC.

Serious question, are you trolling? There are not going to be any games "developed specifically and exclusively for XSX." Every MS game is coming to PC, and if MS isn't doing it, third parties aren't going to do it either.
 
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pyrocro

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IMO nvidia solution is great when it works in tandem
RT core + Tensor core -> RTX +DLSS -> ray tracing with good IQ and performance.
Really dude you just said no games will be developed with the 2080ti in mind, FALSE
ALL RTX games are developed with the 2080 TI in mind, that up there is a real fail at moving the goal post.
RTX ON.
 

RaySoft

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I see an APU, the custom flash controller and the nand below it.


The nand and the nand memory controller in the flash controller would be connected with literal copper traces on the PCB.

But keep talking about DMA like you have any clue how any of this works.
DMA just means that you dont have to request memory access through the CPU.
So you're telling me access to those nands requires going through the CPU?
I pointed out those lanes since Sony went for more chips as smaller capacity for more bandwith.
Nice try though...
 
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Knch

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DMA just means that you dont have to request memory access through the CPU.
So you're telling me access to those nands requires going through the CPU?
I pointed out those lanes since Sony went for more chips as smaller capacity for more bandwith.
Nice try though...

I was primarily talking about the DMA lanes from the SSD controller to the nands.

Quoting YOU again, now with emphasis on where you are fucking wrong on the internet.

The SSD controller's internal nand memory controller is connected through physical pins and physical copper traces to pins on the NAND. This is not DMA, it's just a plain physical bus.

DMA is when you DIRECTLY ACCESS the MEMORY of an OTHER subsystem/component. Because not being directly physically connected to your own memory (be it volatile or otherwise) would be really retarded.
 

DoctaThompson

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Quoting YOU again, now with emphasis on where you are fucking wrong on the internet.

The SSD controller's internal nand memory controller is connected through physical pins and physical copper traces to pins on the NAND. This is not DMA, it's just a plain physical bus.

DMA is when you DIRECTLY ACCESS the MEMORY of an OTHER subsystem/component. Because not being directly physically connected to your own memory (be it volatile or otherwise) would be really retarded.

 
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RaySoft

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Quoting YOU again, now with emphasis on where you are fucking wrong on the internet.

The SSD controller's internal nand memory controller is connected through physical pins and physical copper traces to pins on the NAND. This is not DMA, it's just a plain physical bus.

DMA is when you DIRECTLY ACCESS the MEMORY of an OTHER subsystem/component. Because not being directly physically connected to your own memory (be it volatile or otherwise) would be really retarded.
Is this s pissing contest? Seriously.
If you take a closer look at that Cerny slide you will se that the DMA controller is situated inside the APU, not the controller, thus I called them 12 DMA lanes.
 

DoctaThompson

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It's really weird. I'd submit it mainly seems to be from the Sony nerds. The cult of Cerny.

They honestly think their $500 box will outperform top tier PCs.
And the sad part about it, there's more of the die hard Sony warriors, than the PCMR guys. Even if consoles were to somehow be stronger than high end pc's, I would still prefer PC, for the simple fact that it is more than a gaming machine. When I'm not gaming, I can be productive or just fuck around online, doing a million and one things I couldn't do with a console.
Here is a list of animals in rank after humans for intelligence:

1. Chimpanzees.
2. Pigs
3. Dolphins

(Sauce: https://eu.app.com/story/opinion/columnists/linda-reddington/2016/07/17/just-smart-pigs/87219706/)

Please find a more suitable picture, thank you. :p

 
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Knch

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Is this s pissing contest? Seriously.
If you take a closer look at that Cerny slide you will se that the DMA controller is situated inside the APU, not the controller, thus I called them 12 DMA lanes.
If you take a closer look at what you wrote you'll see you're claiming these DMA lanes are between the SSD controller and its own NAND.

If this was a pissing contest, you'd be pissing yourself.
 
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RaySoft

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If you take a closer look at what you wrote you'll see you're claiming these DMA lanes are between the SSD controller and its own NAND.

If this was a pissing contest, you'd be pissing yourself.
Yes I guess the semantics is more impotaint than the overall message for you guys, you win.
 

Knch

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Yes I guess the semantics is more impotaint than the overall message for you guys, you win.
Yes, the difference between the different controllers and/or something abstract as a DMA "lane" and an actual physical bus connecting components is semantics...
 
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martino

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Really dude you just said no games will be developed with the 2080ti in mind, FALSE
ALL RTX games are developed with the 2080 TI in mind, that up there is a real fail at moving the goal post.
RTX ON.
imo this is a more an exclusive patch
 

llien

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Here is a list of animals in rank after humans for intelligence:

1. Chimpanzees.
2. Pigs
3. Dolphins

(Sauce: https://eu.app.com/story/opinion/columnists/linda-reddington/2016/07/17/just-smart-pigs/87219706/)

Please find a more suitable picture, thank you. :p

By which metric?

Killer whales have TWICE the neurons humans have.
Dolphins are on par.
Then come humans.
Then Gorillas.
Then Orangutans.
And only then, Chimps.

Evolution wise, chimps and bonobos are closer to humans, than orangutans and gorillas.
 
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martino

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Control was built from the ground up for RTX ray tracing, come on man you making it to easy now.
why does pc have to lose for you guys to win?
I'm mainly a pc gamer..
Control works great without ray tracing you're mostly missing visual effects
I could agree if you can you prove me DA of control was made using ray tracing and not the other way.
Outside that Control is not a game made with 2080ti constraints in mind but much lower specs.
Imo we probably don't expect same thing from a game made with ray tracing in mind.
i expect game design playing with indirect lightning, reflexions...

Also I imagine batman arkaman and borderland are made with nvidia cards in mind since they support physX
 

Knch

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By which metric?

Killer whales have TWICE the neurons humans have.
Dolphins are on par.
Then come humans.
Then Gorillas.
Then Orangutans.
And only then, Chimps.

Evolution wise, chimps and bonobos are closer to humans, than orangutans and gorillas.
By the metric of being the first list a very quick Google search delivered.

The only thought I wanted to convey was that a pig was too smart to represent someone counting DMA lanes on a block diagram.
 
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BusierDonkey

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But I read 8K and 120fps!

Funny how fast that went away, and was replaced by hype over SSDs, which the PC will have faster versions of coupled with faster more abundant ram with the option to increase each at any point. Now we're being shown powerpoint slides as concrete proof that the technology will make a 9-10 TF system that doesn't even exist as a render at this point competitive with the PCs available when it launches and beyond. So far all they showed was an empty game engine demoing a small barren area with scripted events running at 1440p/30fps.

Consoles are a great value, you can play games on them, they look fine, come with a controller, and they take several minutes less to initially set up than a PC (or even hours if you want to assemble your own PC). They also run at barely acceptable framerates usually pre-set by someone else that you can't adjust or improve. That's the tradeoff for the $600 price point. The other is that as time moves on they do not.
 

DoctaThompson

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But I read 8K and 120fps!

Funny how fast that went away, and was replaced by hype over SSDs, which the PC will have faster versions of coupled with faster more abundant ram with the option to increase each at any point. Now we're being shown powerpoint slides as concrete proof that the technology will make a 9-10 TF system that doesn't even exist as a render at this point competitive with the PCs available when it launches and beyond. So far all they showed was an empty game engine demoing a small barren area with scripted events running at 1440p/30fps.

Consoles are a great value, you can play games on them, they look fine, come with a controller, and they take several minutes less to initially set up than a PC (or even hours if you want to assemble your own PC). They also run at barely acceptable framerates usually pre-set by someone else that you can't adjust or improve. That's the tradeoff for the $600 price point. The other is that as time moves on they do not.
This seems to age like fine wine. Hopefully this will be my last image in this thread.



 

pyrocro

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I'm mainly a pc gamer..
Control works great without ray tracing you're mostly missing visual effects
I could agree if you can you prove me DA of control was made using ray tracing and not the other way.
Outside that Control is not a game made with 2080ti constraints in mind but much lower specs.
Imo we probably don't expect same thing from a game made with ray tracing in mind.
i expect game design playing with indirect lightning, reflexions...
This was in March 2018, long before the game release in 27 August 2019, EVEN BEFORE the RELEASE of the RTX cards.


tell me when you tired of being wrong.

Also I imagine batman arkaman and borderland are made with nvidia cards in mind since they support physX
can you use PhysX on a non-nvidia card?
 
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diffusionx

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The 2xxx series, from a RTX point of view, is a first-gen card. There is a big framerate hit to everything, and the implementation was really mixed until we got stuff like Control. Obviously the games that used RTX were doing so with a 2080ti in mind, as that was the card that could handle it best, although still lacking IMO.

I suspect that as RTX gets more sophisticated and devs get more comfortable with it, the high-end cards are going to be taxed even more and the IQ benefits will be there.
 
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It's as if they believe that hardware planned several years ago, will be superior to all hardware currently out, coming out later this year (including AMD 4000 cpu's and RDNA 2 gpu's)
Remember what Lord Cerny said during the "Road to PS5" reveal?
If you see a similar discrete GPU available as a PC card at roughly the same time as we release our console, that means our collaboration with AMD succeeded in producing technology useful in both worlds. It doesn't mean that we at Sony simply incorporated the PC part into our console.

If I were a betting man, I'd venture to say that this will be the theoretical "RX 6700", a cut-down version of the the 6700XT. These models occupy the $300-400, mid-range 'Performance' tier of a PC GPU stack. I'll be honest, die size speculation isn't my thing, but they're probably 250-260mm² die size in comparison to the incoming 505mm² RDNA 2 "Turing Killer".
 
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martino

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This was in March 2018, long before the game release in 27 August 2019, EVEN BEFORE the RELEASE of the RTX cards.


tell me when you tired of being wrong.
with this 2018 article about RT experiment you only prove RT is an afterthought in case of control (or you think dev began in 2018 ?)
control is not more a game made with rtx in mind than metro exodus, shadow of the tomb raider or any other multi-platform game with a partnership to add nvidia features.

this prove control was made as a multiplat game :
Remedy is also working on a game project codenamed P7*. The company’s strategy is to release the game on a wider range of platforms, which is why Remedy is developing its Northlight technology also for PlayStation 4 consoles.
* p7 is control.
part of the strategy with control was to port the engine on ps4.

more recently https://www.remedygames.com/remedy-...ames-to-publish-two-new-multi-platform-games/
Remedy is working on two multi-platform games for next-generation consoles and PC that will be published by Epic Games.
upcoming remedy games will also be made with console in mind.

tell me when you want to wake up..
 
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