• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hi Guest. We've rebooted and consolidated our Communities section, so be sure to check it out and subscribe to some threads. Thanks!

Divorcing parents battle over transitioning their son to a female

FMXVII

Member
Aug 27, 2019
822
551
300
Ask your average 7 year old what they want to be when they grow up, and a statistically relevant answer will be, "a giraffe." I personally thing the age limit for hormones should be 25 when people's brains stop developing, but I'd accept a compromise for when people can legally die for their country.
"Don't Ask, Don't Tell", was an actual thing a couple of decades back... I can even begin to imagine how the Armed Services is going to figure THIS one out.
 
Aug 29, 2018
1,771
2,710
420
34
Bartow, Florida, USA
"Don't Ask, Don't Tell", was an actual thing a couple of decades back... I can even begin to imagine how the Armed Services is going to figure THIS one out.
It's not something the military recruitment office is keen to admit, but when you enlist you forfeit quite a few constitutional rights until you're discharged. The military does its job at the pleasure of the civilian government, provide an existential threat and these shenanigans get tossed out the window.

No American has had to sacrifice for their nation since the abolition of the Draft. While I'm not arguing for resuming the Draft, I will say that a war that does not impact the populous is a war that will never end.

Edit- Forcibly been made to sacrifice.
 
Last edited:

llien

Gold Member
Feb 1, 2017
6,448
3,765
720
It perhaps shouldn’t matter what a 7 year old says....but I am wondering what the kid says when interviewed by a neutral party?
Allegedly that happened.

Also, let's calm down and think about jury siding with mother. Most would surely pick a women over a man, but only few would do it over child's life.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Eiknarf

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
16,348
32,047
1,290
USA
dunpachi.com

Zefah

Gold Member
Jan 7, 2007
34,031
833
1,265
What a crazy story... Are there any articles that really go into the mother's perspective on this?
 

NickFire

Member
Mar 12, 2014
5,740
4,731
765
Gag orders are unconstitutional!
There may times when they are permissible. But when one parent is fighting to commit child abuse in the minds of countless people, that seems blatantly unconstitutional to me.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
16,348
32,047
1,290
USA
dunpachi.com
I'm missing the ideology impact part.
It is just one isolated case.
The mother was evidently pushing this on the child, insisting it was their choice.

The child then changed their choice to match their biological gender.

It's not complicated. The whole affair was predicated on the child going along with the mom's charade.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hariseldon

llien

Gold Member
Feb 1, 2017
6,448
3,765
720
It's not complicated. The whole affair was predicated on the child going along with the mom's charade.
It is likely the way you describe, although it doesn't exclude the possibility of kid having symptoms of gender dysphoria and even less so does it show whether other kids do or do not have it.

Seeing such kids in my childhood, long before T became a thing in the West (and years before internet) back in USSR, where T was unheard of, is convincing enough for me to say they do exist, even this early in life.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Ailynn

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
16,348
32,047
1,290
USA
dunpachi.com
It is likely the way you describe, although it doesn't exclude the possibility of kid having symptoms of gender dysphoria and even less so does it show whether other kids do or do not have it.

Seeing such kids in my childhood, long before T became a thing in the West (and years before internet) back in USSR, where T was unheard of, is convincing enough for me to say they do exist, even this early in life.
I'm sure the condition exists early in life, but the current environment incentivizes people to fake it, there's no other way to put it.
 

StormCell

Member
Dec 11, 2018
593
504
370
It's not something the military recruitment office is keen to admit, but when you enlist you forfeit quite a few constitutional rights until you're discharged. The military does its job at the pleasure of the civilian government, provide an existential threat and these shenanigans get tossed out the window.

No American has had to sacrifice for their nation since the abolition of the Draft. While I'm not arguing for resuming the Draft, I will say that a war that does not impact the populous is a war that will never end.

Edit- Forcibly been made to sacrifice.
I think most people have completely forgotten that there is, indeed, a thing called a draft. My wife knew little to nothing about it and was shocked to know that, and I don't know if this is still a thing now, all men had to sign an agreement that they can be drafted before accepting federal financial aid (to go to college). In fact, I think all men had/have to sign up at the age of 18--not bothering to search on this now. She had no idea of this.

Yeah, it's probably never going to happen, but I'm ready if it does. I may even be past my best years, but I'm ready and willing.
 
Last edited:

spandexmonkey

Member
Dec 17, 2009
1,860
738
910
Memphis, TN
I think most people have completely forgotten that there is, indeed, a thing called a draft. My wife knew little to nothing about it and was shocked to know that, and I don't know if this is still a thing now, all men have to sign an agreement that they can be drafted before accepting federal financial aid.

Yeah, it's probably never going to happen, but I'm ready if it does. I may even be past my best years, but I'm ready and willing.
Yup, the draft is still an option but it's something that congress/president have to authorize. All US men still have to sign up for Selective Service:


I think Clinton was asked about expanding selective service to women during her campaign and she was like "nah".
 

StormCell

Member
Dec 11, 2018
593
504
370
Yup, the draft is still an option but it's something that congress/president have to authorize. All US men still have to sign up for Selective Service:


I think Clinton was asked about expanding selective service to women during her campaign and she was like "nah".
Hillary is a lot of things, but at her core she is still a moderate (and a Christian). It's just that for some reason (greed? apathy?) her politics are up-for-sale. If she was more like her "husband" she might win in a land slide in this political climate.

*Not saying Bill wasn't up-for-sale, but he didn't do a lot of radical things during his terms.
 
Last edited:

llien

Gold Member
Feb 1, 2017
6,448
3,765
720
I'm sure the condition exists early in life, but the current environment incentivizes people to fake it, there's no other way to put it.
I agree that there is a clear push to nudge hesitant people in that direction.
 

autoduelist

Member
Aug 30, 2014
10,541
14,658
840
I think most people have completely forgotten that there is, indeed, a thing called a draft. My wife knew little to nothing about it and was shocked to know that, and I don't know if this is still a thing now, all men had to sign an agreement that they can be drafted before accepting federal financial aid (to go to college). In fact, I think all men had/have to sign up at the age of 18--not bothering to search on this now. She had no idea of this.

Yeah, it's probably never going to happen, but I'm ready if it does. I may even be past my best years, but I'm ready and willing.
Yes, it's called Selective Service... it's signing up to be drafted, not an actual draft [but people call it 'registering for the draft'.] Almost all males must register within 30 days of turning 18 [the exceptions are basically already being in the military, prison, or a mental institution].

My wife had no idea about this either. I brought it up once in an ill advised discussion [with your wife, at least] regarding statistics on voting.

If you don't sign up, you can be subject to 5 years in jail and fined $250k, though nobody has been prosecuted in decades. There are assorted other punishements that do still take place - federal college funds, for example. And some states require it for everything from drivers licenses to state college.

And of course, in a slightly convoluted way this means, legally, men must be registered for the draft to vote. Even though they are not directly connected, given it's a felony not to register if they did prosecute you you'd be unable to vote.

Illegal aliens and other non-citizens are also generally supposed to register. While i don't have stats on how many do, i believe if they don't in theory they are forever barred from citizenship.

I beleive a judge ruled the male/female divide unconstitutional earlier this year, but i don't know where it is in the courts right now, and if they'd expand it to all or just scrap it.

 

StormCell

Member
Dec 11, 2018
593
504
370
I'm sure the condition exists early in life, but the current environment incentivizes people to fake it, there's no other way to put it.
That piques my curiosity about social pressures and attitudes among youth and young adolescents. How much incentive is there really to outwardly struggle with gender dysphoria?

Personally, it would feel like a living nightmare and an internal hell if I wasn't sure about my "inner gender." To consider how that would impact all of my deepest and most intimate and romantic relationships that I currently have. I cannot even begin to fathom what transitioning would be like, what it would do to both my body and all my relationships.

Maybe it's just me, but I suspect the overwhelming majority of common binary people will firmly stick any T person into the "friend zone" permanently. I'm not saying there isn't room for some "play" for some folks, but how many binary people are willing to marry a T person? How's that for incentive?
 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Ailynn

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
16,348
32,047
1,290
USA
dunpachi.com
That piques my curiosity about social pressures and attitudes among youth and young adolescents. How much incentive is there really to outwardly struggle with gender dysphoria?

Personally, it would feel like a living nightmare and an internal hell if I wasn't sure about my "inner gender."
That's the rub: if people are faking it to receive the social accolades then I would assume they aren't actually experiencing any of the normal "living nightmare" feelings that a person who actually has dysphoria would feel.

To consider how that would impact all of my deepest and most intimate and romantic relationships that I currently have. I cannot even begin to fathom what transitioning would be like, what it would do to both my body and all my relationships.

Maybe it's just me, but I suspect the overwhelming majority of common binary people will firmly stick any T person into the "friend zone" permanently. I'm not saying there isn't room for some "play" for some folks, but how many binary people are willing to marry a T person? How's that for incentive?
People jump into fads for all kinds of dumb and immoral reasons. You are predicating this on the assumption that the people who are faking are doing so for logical/moral reasons, when the very act of faking a condition like this would be considered immoral, in my opinion.
 

monegames

Member
Sep 26, 2014
2,504
2,233
600
That piques my curiosity about social pressures and attitudes among youth and young adolescents. How much incentive is there really to outwardly struggle with gender dysphoria?

Personally, it would feel like a living nightmare and an internal hell if I wasn't sure about my "inner gender." To consider how that would impact all of my deepest and most intimate and romantic relationships that I currently have. I cannot even begin to fathom what transitioning would be like, what it would do to both my body and all my relationships.

Maybe it's just me, but I suspect the overwhelming majority of common binary people will firmly stick any T person into the "friend zone" permanently. I'm not saying there isn't room for some "play" for some folks, but how many binary people are willing to marry a T person? How's that for incentive?
The incentive is attention because you are now different and special. The trans child brings the parents attention as well. Which is incentive for the parents to push it on their young and highly impressionable child. It is essentially Munchausen by Proxy.
 

StormCell

Member
Dec 11, 2018
593
504
370
That's the rub: if people are faking it to receive the social accolades then I would assume they aren't actually experiencing any of the normal "living nightmare" feelings that a person who actually has dysphoria would feel.


People jump into fads for all kinds of dumb and immoral reasons. You are predicating this on the assumption that the people who are faking are doing so for logical/moral reasons, when the very act of faking a condition like this would be considered immoral, in my opinion.
The incentive is attention because you are now different and special. The trans child brings the parents attention as well. Which is incentive for the parents to push it on their young and highly impressionable child. It is essentially Munchausen by Proxy.
Gah. It's the modern day version of "cutting" and "thoughts of suicide."
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Jinzo Prime

autoduelist

Member
Aug 30, 2014
10,541
14,658
840
That piques my curiosity about social pressures and attitudes among youth and young adolescents. How much incentive is there really to outwardly struggle with gender dysphoria?
-suddenly the center of attention
-everybody else wants to be seen as your friend
-either makes your parents happy, or pisses them off, depending

The issue isn't with people who are actually dysphoric. It's with other kids with unrelated issues [depression, general body dsyphoria [too fat, etc], loneliness, confused sexuality, etc] who jump on board because it is a quick path to acceptance if not popularity.

There are secondary issues as well. For example, many in the lesbian community are arguing lesbianism is being 'erased' because normal lesbians are being not just told they are, but are rewarded for, saying they are trans. And once they say that, it's near impossible to take it back.

The issue is, once you jump on board it is now extremely difficult to get off without risking everything you built. In fact, everyone is encouraging you to make decisions that will effect your entire life [from breast removal, to puberty blockers and other forms of chemical castration / sterilization, to more].

We are talking about kids, and kids are particularly susceptible to fads [adults still are].