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DmC developers at Ninja Theory inviting Top DMC players to test game

Beth Cyra

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-NinjaBoiX- said:
Woah, reading that gave me a headache. Use comma's man! Also, the combat can't be tight as they are using UE3?

Riiiggghhhttt.

Don't get me wrong, I have reservations about the combat too, but this is more to do with NT than UE3. The combat in Enslaved was pretty bland and unresponsive.
I more have issues that only one game up until now has run at 60 FPS in UE3, that and NT hasn't been able to even get a game to run at a stable 30 FPS yet.

These aren't something I believe people like Dahbomb will be able to change. If you disagree then so be it.
 

GuardianE

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BeautifulMemory said:
I care about the lore, but as long as combat is there and the characters don't make me vomit, I will buy this...at a mid price

Yeah, I mean, as far as I'm concerned as a self-admitted fanboy, they fucked up a backstory and characters that I cared about. So, that's not really forgiveable.

Still, this shows promise, and I'm more than willing to acknowledge that this is a step in the right direction.
 

NinjaBoiX

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BeautifulMemory said:
Maybe it can be tight, but UE is not known for it, and yes I know there's MK. You don't understand when we talk about DMC tight there's only a few games that are in it's level.
Oh, I fully appreciate that only the likes of Bayo and NG can even touch DmC combat wise, it just seemed strange to bring up UE3 as the problem.
 

Yoshichan

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lowhighkang_LHK said:
Tell that to Greg Kasavin :(
I remember that review! God damn, I got so pissed off. You did amazing.
 
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GuardianE said:
Yeah, I mean, as far as I'm concerned as a self-admitted fanboy, they fucked up a backstory and characters that I cared about. So, that's not really forgiveable.

Still, this shows promise, and I'm more than willing to acknowledge that this is a step in the right direction.
Yea this wins me over than showing any gameplay trailer, especially if well known players test the game. Because to be honest, they are far better judges than I will be
 

Dahbomb

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Capcom claimed that the inputs are done in 60FPS in a similar sense to the way Criterion handled NFS Most Wanted on the consoles.

If there is like a build of DmC out there that runs on 60FPS without like the effects/textures, then that would be a good place to test the combat and put it through the grinder.

Guys I am not even going myself but maybe players from the UK can approach me and we'll see. I need to get this checked out more thoroughly so please don't flood my inbox with PMs just yet. I live way too far for them to even cover my travel expenses and even so I can't even come because I have exams coming up anyway.
 
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-NinjaBoiX- said:
Oh, I fully appreciate that only the likes of Bayo and NG can even touch DmC combat wise, it just seemed strange to bring up UE3 as the problem.
Yea well...I seem to recall UE tends to give problems in general while being relatively easy to use. The game is already maxed out 30fps due to the engine, and you kinda miss a lot at the fps, unless NT can pull a bayonetta ( I found ps3 version to be playable)
 

Goon Boon

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Here's my prediction for this - they'll invite people until they find one person who talks favorably about it, then rationalize 30fps and other flaws.
 

ezekial45

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I still remember what they said about the frame rate during the Gamescom live chat. It'll be locked at 30FPS, but the actual button input will be matched to that of 60FPS.

Maybe we'll hear more about that later on.
 

Riposte

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lowhighkang_LHK said:
Sure. Somebody mentioned Brea is coming down - but I thought Brea was from Japan?

I made a lot of posts in DmC threads here at GAF alluding to the days when Ben Judd really asked some of us to get DMC back on track after the abysmal DMC2. Maybe somebody from Ninja Theory was reading one of those posts and thought it would be a good idea to capture that idea again.

Hopefully whoever goes addresses the concept of difficulty, DMC games should be hard. - In an odd way, I kind of take responsibility for making DMC3 too hard, since every time Ben would ask me - I kept saying "make DMC3 harder." So, I guess I fucked up.

My hero
 

Beth Cyra

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To be completely frank I believe this will be largely a sham and nothing more then a PR stunt to try and finally win over some good PR.

If we see real changes and DMC players can at least convince them to remove shit like the fuck close up kills or something then I might really believe in it.

As it stands they still need to at least lock it at 30 and given their past histroy I find this hard to believe and the fact is everything up to this point has shown they don't give a fuck about this player base.
 
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For those still bummed about 30 fps with 60 fps inputs or whatever mumbo jumbo is going on - that's an unfortunate reality. But you can still make a great action with these limitations. It still may be broccoli, but at least it'll be broccoli with ranch.

yeah I don't know where I got that analogy from
 
Feb 2, 2008
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TruePrime said:
To be completely frank I believe this will be largely a sham and nothing more then a PR stunt to try and finally win over some good PR.

If we see real changes and DMC players can at least convince them to remove shit like the fuck close up kills or something then I might really believe in it.

As it stands they still need to at least lock it at 30 and given their past histroy I find this hard to believe and the fact is everything up to this point has shown they don't give a fuck about this player base.
Only if someone real rich shows up and fly Dahbomb...then it will be game over
 
Feb 2, 2008
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lowhighkang_LHK said:
For those still bummed about 30 fps with 60 fps inputs or whatever mumbo jumbo is going on - that's an unfortunate reality. But you can still make a great action with these limitations. It still may be broccoli, but at least it'll be broccoli with ranch.

yeah I don't know where I got that analogy from
I was bummed before given what NT thought action game was...but if pro players can give input then perhaps we will get something at least like ps3 bayo

DP because on phone, sorry it's just easier
 

Beth Cyra

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BeautifulMemory said:
Only it someone real rich shows up and fly Dahbomb...then it will be game over
Not really.

I remember a few years ago Jeff Green talking about how smart it was for a Game Company to actually fly people out and have them demo your stuff because if it went well they would spread the information all over.

Not saying people like Dahbomb would be bought out, but this as it stands will likely reach further with in the main DMC community as form of Good to Great PR much more then spending thousands maybe even hundreds of thousands on more trailers and the like.
 

thetrin

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BigJiantRobut said:
Once upon a time there were arcades and that's what 90% of games were about.
When I was growing up, arcades were all about fighting games. Arcades haven't been about beating high scores since like 1987.
 
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TruePrime said:
Not really.

I remember a few years ago Jeff Green talking about how smart it was for a Game Company to actually fly people out and have them demo your stuff because if it went well they would spread the information all over.

Not saying people like Dahbomb would be bought out, but this as it stands will likely reach further with in the main DMC community as form of Good to Great PR much more then spending thousands maybe even hundreds of thousands on more trailers and the like.
Damn you are more critical than I'm, I love it. There are reasons for concern tho. Who knows who will actually show up and what build they will play. Up to this day we still don't know what Capcom's contribution is
 

bone_and_sinew

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Dahbomb

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LOL I can't make a 30FPS game 60FPS and I can't magically make DmC godlike. Neither can Brea or any other player for that matter.

Even if NT flies me out to UK or whatever, treat me like a god and basically show me everything there is to show on DmC... I am not going to sugar coat anything. If there is legitimately something bad about DmC, I will talk about it or if I can't... I will keep my mouth shut. Same for it's nice parts.

I don't think this is going to be some major PR stunt other than them mentioning that they had "top DMC players" playtest and give feedback on the game... which would be true if it does pan out that way. It's MUCH better this than no feedback/playtesting at all.
 

Beth Cyra

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Dahbomb said:
LOL I can't make a 30FPS game 60FPS and I can't magically make DmC godlike. Neither can Brea or any other player for that matter.

Even if NT flies me out to UK or whatever, treat me like a god and basically show me everything there is to show on DmC... I am not going to sugar coat anything. If there is legitimately something bad about DmC, I will talk about it or if I can't... I will keep my mouth shut. Same for it's nice parts.

I don't think this is going to be some major PR stunt other than them mentioning that they had "top DMC players" playtest and give feedback on the game... which would be true if it does pan out that way. It's MUCH better this than no feedback/playtesting at all.
I don't think it would be major in that it would be far reaching really.

However it is big in that already there is easily more hype in this thread then there has been for this game since we saw the reveal trailer and found out the Dev Team.

You guys might be able to change stuff and my mistrust could be completely misplaced. I wont believe it is though until I see it in action and will continue to believe this won't do much other then provide them a nice PR message. When/If the game ships and still has issues they will have no excuses as you and the others will have told them directly.
 
Feb 2, 2008
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Dahbomb said:
LOL I can't make a 30FPS game 60FPS and I can't magically make DmC godlike. Neither can Brea or any other player for that matter.

Even if NT flies me out to UK or whatever, treat me like a god and basically show me everything there is to show on DmC... I am not going to sugar coat anything. If there is legitimately something bad about DmC, I will talk about it or if I can't... I will keep my mouth shut. Same for it's nice parts.

I don't think this is going to be some major PR stunt other than them mentioning that they had "top DMC players" playtest and give feedback on the game... which would be true if it does pan out that way. It's MUCH better this than no feedback/playtesting at all.
If you were there you'd give decent and thorough analysis, which would weigh most in discussing the game. So, where are our rich gaffers?
 
Jan 27, 2011
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Dahbomb said:
LOL I can't make a 30FPS game 60FPS and I can't magically make DmC godlike. Neither can Brea or any other player for that matter.

Even if NT flies me out to UK or whatever, treat me like a god and basically show me everything there is to show on DmC... I am not going to sugar coat anything. If there is legitimately something bad about DmC, I will talk about it or if I can't... I will keep my mouth shut. Same for it's nice parts.

I don't think this is going to be some major PR stunt other than them mentioning that they had "top DMC players" playtest and give feedback on the game... which would be true if it does pan out that way. It's MUCH better this than no feedback/playtesting at all.



Pretty much this. The value of this cannot be judged. We don't know how seriously they are going to take our feedback. But at least they are willing to listen. Whatever may come from it, so be it.
 

pa22word

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bone_and_sinew said:
This link should be mandatory reading for anyone who doesn't get the UE3 30 fps outrage:



Capcom is flatout lying when they say the game will have the feel of 60 fps.


What they're probably alluding to is that they're pumping motion blur out the ass in order to fool the untrained hand/eye. Just my guess on it anyways.
 

AlphaDragoon

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Wow, I actually have to give props to NT for this. Even though some of the issues lie too deep to fix (lol 30 FPS), this says to me that they're actually serious about this game not sucking, especially if they actually ask for hard feedback and take it into account, changing the things that don't work.
 

Darkatomz

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Man... I don't think I'll ever be as good at DMC as when I first got into DMC3, but knowing that the game will likely be tweaked for pro play is niiiiiiiiiice.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt right now.
 
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pa22word said:
What they're probably alluding to is that they're pumping motion blur out the ass in order to fool the untrained hand/eye. Just my guess on it anyways.
The only reason there's some hope on this because how smooth Bayo plays at lower frame rate. I know it's Kamiya, but Capcom is no slouch on the combat side, if they are involved in it at all
 

Dahbomb

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BladeoftheImmortal said:
There is a DMC3...scene? How does that work besides youtubing combos?
Read some of the comments in the first page.

If you were there you'd give decent and thorough analysis, which would weigh most in discussing the game. So, where are our rich gaffers?
I don't think you need to be rich... just be in the UK area around NT. I know another person who is around the UK area in fact he works in GD and was going to work for NT anyway (the closest thing to a real DMC fan working on a DMC game). I might send him my invite although I haven't responded to the e-mail because I don't know what I am going to do with it yet.
 

Azure J

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lowhighkang_LHK said:

That Aerial Rave -> Air Dash Cancel -> Aerial Rave loop in the Brea vid is fucking swag.

Jesus, I swear, it's always stuff like this that makes me want to bust out my games and go crazy until I can approach that level in some way. :lol
 

wastedyears

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Here is a link to the TrueStylyTournament for DMC3

http://www.phantombabies.net/videos/TST3/

I'm not sure if its part of the 'scene', but here are some 'Let's Play' videos for the DMC series by AccountingNightmare. I normally don't follow Let's Plays, but this lady is so incredible at DMC games it is very entertaining to watch her effortlessly destroy the game on the hardest difficulty, making a very tough series look simple, and stylish as hell.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AccountingNightmare#p/p
 

Wolf Akela

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Now I'm getting some hope.

I seriously don't want DmC to be like GoW; mostly flashy but easy-to-do combo dialing.

And yes there were plenty of DMC combos and exhibition vids. I favor the latter more since it's more about neat tricks, like spending a whole boss battle without touching the ground.

DMC4 already had a solid engine onto it, it's just that Dante's arsenal is extremely unbalanced so only few moves are viable. I hope the feedbacks will help that. DMC3 only had very few useless moves (such as Crawler, would be cool if it's a launcher and more cancelable).
 

Monocle

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ezekial45 said:
Why wouldn't they?
To date, NT's attitude toward DMC fans has ranged from indifferent to antagonistic. Who's to say how sharply they're willing to swerve from their plans for DmC in response to feedback from a handful of players? They already know DMC fans want a straightforward sequel that fixes DMC4's issues and incorporates the best aspects of DMC1 and DMC3. More freeform combo tools, minimal backtracking, more weapons, more content, a customizable enemy arena, a boss gauntlet, and playable Vergil would have satisfied almost everyone. Clearly that's not what we're going to get. NT won't scrap their shoddy concept and start over; the project is too far along and they're committed now. The best they can do is make DmC play as much like the good DMC games as possible. But probably they'll throw us just enough bones to keep our mouths full while they move to take us from behind.

Would NT really reintroduce jump cancelling if it's been removed as rumored? Would they be willing to make Devil Trigger augment your moves and speed and damage like it should do instead of causing enemies to hang passively in the air? Would they get rid of the kill cam that disrupts gameplay apparently at random with cutscenes that ruin the player's momentum? I'd like to think so, but given NT's history I'm not going to fall all over myself to give them the benefit of the doubt. For all we know, NT will ignore suggestions for big changes to the combat system they already have in place, even if those changes would drastically improve the game.
 

bone_and_sinew

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wastedyears said:
Here is a link to the TrueStylyTournament for DMC3

http://www.phantombabies.net/videos/TST3/

I'm not sure if its part of the 'scene', but here are some 'Let's Play' videos for the DMC series by AccountingNightmare. I normally don't follow Let's Plays, but this lady is so incredible at DMC games it is very entertaining to watch her effortlessly destroy the game on the hardest difficulty, making a very tough series look simple, and stylish as hell.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AccountingNightmare#p/p
I learned a lot of stuff from a user named Broly2012's tutorials

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lyqo4B0pm4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqb5QvJp5_A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NONegEEmiEU
 
Jan 27, 2011
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My input - to those in the UK who are going - wherever the fuck you may be.

Is first see if there are visual and auditory telegraphed attacks. I know there seems to be visual, but I'm not sure on auditory since we haven't had a good gameplay video that had sound.

If there are no auditory cues on enemy attacks, then shit is already fucked.

If you're friend in the UK is going to this playtest Dahbomb, maybe you should and have others write up a "top 10 things a DMC game needs" checklist. Naturally, any DMC vet would likely already know these, but you never know - you're there checking the game out, and sometimes certain concepts you take for granted you forget to check/ask/test.

Does anyone have frame data on DMC3 Dante? I've been meaning to do a DMC3 Dante vs. DMC4 Dante comparison but never got around to it. I think it may be useful now especially when you compare NT's DMC to DMC3 in terms of risk/reward core combat design.
 

Htown

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Dahbomb said:
This is HUGE NEWS for DmC as it shows that they actually want feedback from top DMC players and it shows that the game is actually being fine tuned for high level DMC play. Some of the people who may receive the e-mail might not be able to go for the test (like myself) but others might and that's why I posted this thread.
Yeah, not likely. It's probably damage control. They figure they can fly out some of the top guys, give them the tour, pretend to listen to what they have to say, and hope they post good PR on the interwebs.

This is officially becoming a thing now, ever since Gabe Newell invited the L4D boycott guys up to Valve. Now everybody with a hyped up sequel that's getting bad word of mouth is inviting two or three dudes from the community to see the studio.
 

Raonak

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Well, thats a step in the right direction.

but too be honest. The fact it's not dante, and it's not using the existing canon, and it's by ninja theory, and it's using unreal engine. ....

ugh... I just want DMC5 done by the dmc team.
 

Dahbomb

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My friend is as versed in DMC knowledge as I am. If he plans to go that is. I am going to sit on this for like a day or two and then decide how I want to play this.

I already saw telegraphed attacks in the game play video so that's not really a cause of concern at this point.


Does anyone have frame data on DMC3 Dante? I've been meaning to do a DMC3 Dante vs. DMC4 Dante comparison but never got around to it. I think it may be useful now especially when you compare NT's DMC to DMC3 in terms of risk/reward core combat design.
I always wanted frame data in DMC but I have never seen it myself. It would really help out the high level community especially stuff like the just frames on Nero's charges.
 

NinjaBoiX

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bone_and_sinew said:
This link should be mandatory reading for anyone who doesn't get the UE3 30 fps discontent:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/15118967/Hitting-60Hz-in-Unreal-Engine

Capcom is flatout lying when they say the game will have the feel of 60 fps.
All I got from that article is that UE3 is designed for FPS/TPS games, and 60 fps games require a rendering buffer to allow for load spikes. I already knew that.

Sorry, not really sure why this was relevant.
 
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Dahbomb said:
Yes (not scores though), there IS a competitive DMC scene which started right after DMC3. It's usually labeled under something like "True Style Tournament". I used to judge these back in the day (think of them like the Olympics only players have to style and show top execution for marks/points/rankings).


Art design/story is something they will not be changing but the game play/combat pretty much have been said to be tailored to have the DMC DNA. If NT doesn't have the experience to make a top DMC combat then this is the best way to go about it.

Capcom did something very similar for DMC3 back in the day.

How much of that is just PR speak?

Itsuno directed sfalpha3, so much of that influence ended up being in DMC3, especially with beowulf, and all the cancels, we're talking about a developer with a completely different background with Ninja Theory, it's not like they're going to overhaul their animation system because they got some outside people play-testing it for them.
 

Beth Cyra

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-NinjaBoiX- said:
All I got from that article is that UE3 is designed for FPS/TPS games, and 60 fps games require a rendering buffer to allow for load spikes. I already knew that.

Sorry, not really sure why this was relevant.
That video is unimportant.

What is important is the fact is there is 1 big game that runs UE3 at 60 FPS and that is a 2D fighter with 2 characters on screen.

Take that into account with a dev house who has a past history with getting a game to run stable, even with said engine doesn't bode well for an Action game in like DMC and it's combat.
 

Dahbomb

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It IS PR talk but that is still what they are claiming this is going to be. They are essentially saying that it's a different world for DMC and it will look different for sure.... but it should play the same. They also claim that Capcom is working "closely" with them

I am pretty sure they are about to release a demo of this game soon and just want it up to snuff based on DMC players expectations.