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[shubik]

Ubisoft needs to heavily invest in good writers. They just can´t pull off a good story. Everything is forgettable and mixed with really bad writing and often even worse voice acting.

But unfortunately, the games sell great and Ubisoft is successful. So why change anything...

 

[farmerboy]

Ok, before you accuse me of click-baiting you, the video is about this:

Assassin's Creed: Valhalla is a pretty dang good game.Is it Black Flag good? Not at all. But it's a good title, for sure.

Granted, I'm playing it on LUNA as part of the $15.00/month Ubi channel. If I had paid $70.00, I'd be feeling a bit diff, I'm sure.

But still: good, solid entry to the series.

Yay AC:V team!

But I just don't understand how Gamers (and reviewers, cause this damn thing sits at a 80-86% metacritic, depending on system) are down with the way this title tells its story, mainly the opening.

And AC:V isn't the only one that does this; it's just the most recent. In the last 5ish years it seems Gamers have just accepted (embraced?) long non interactive cut scenes, slow walk and talk sections, and an overall degradation in pacing.

But look, man: I'm 49 years old! Maybe this is what the kids like (lord knows these sorts of titles sell boat loads!) and perhaps I should just accept that the games that make up the modern AAA space are simply not for me/someone my age (who came up- as a Player and a designer- with gameplay first mentality).

A much bigger problem to me is the endless padding of games to create some bullshit runtime of 50hrs or more.

I'm 45. I don't wanna learn shit, or feel stressed about keeping track of stuff. Give me a focussed 15hr game any day.

 

[JusticeForAll]

And if the only way to tell the story is to watch it, perhaps it's not a good candidate for a video game story. A lot of books are amazing but movie studios don't touch them because they can't find a way to wrap the cinematic medium around them. It seems like game stories need that same level of scrutiny (i.e. does our medium tell THIS story well?) before greenlights are handed out.

This, essentially.

A game where theyincorporated the story very well in the gameplay, for example, was "Brothers: A tale of two sons". The way the game controlled, amplified the ending.

 

[Arun1910]

Because everyone is different?

Some people like long games, some like short games, some like games with tons of content, light story etc etc.

It isn't that difficult a concept to grasp, if it isn't your thing then it just isn't.

 

[donfonzie]

Oh, I assure you- I got no issues being 49.

Ok, so it's not a resolution thing. Is there a good camera you would recommend?

Don't worry about the camera, it's fine. Most people incl. myself watch your streams for the opinions and observations about games and the industry. You don't need fancy lighting setups or cameras to look good like these you tubers because you have a long proven record of making great games, and your insight is what matters.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Nah, you're not alone. I soured on this sort of stuff since it became common in the late SNES/early PS1 days of Japanese RPGs, but I think it was Half Life that sealed the deal. Afterward it seemed like every game needed an introductory "train ride" to showcase the engine and the environments.

 

[RoboFu]

Is this a Luna ad? I’m confused...

 

[IfuckinghateReddit]

Ass' Creed is a boring series and the only good game is Black Flag. However, even that game is riddled with boring, shitty bits.

It's a massively repetitive, overrated series.

 

[worldwithpyramids]

A lot of people hate that shit. It’s why I dislike most modern AAA games and particularly Ubisoft. It’s awful.

 

[Warnen]

not a huge fan of it myself, was so glad my save copied over from pc to Xbox series x so I didn’t have to do the intro again.

 

[deafmedal]

Depends on the game. Take RDR2 (or any R* game really)- I went in expecting to hate the combat but hopefully find something else to enjoy. Well written characters and impactful moments made the slog of doing story missions bearable because let's face it, combat/restrictions are pretty lame. The best part though? It was a damn fine wild west (cowboy) simulator - I could jump into Arthur's boots and just go do whatever in this massive, beautiful world. I liked to hunt/fish for my camp, ride around in the mountains, explore waterfalls, die from cougars, take baths and play a couple hands, eat some stew, watch the sunrise while enjoying a cup of joe... That sort of shit does it for me, where I can get lost in the game. Skyrim was similar, except the story was pretty dumb (I did enjoy the books though).

Sony's third person narrative driven games are a bit hit or miss for me. I actually dislike the Uncharteds, not sure why I even bother? I guess (as previously mentioned) the spectacle perhaps? TLOU I quite enjoyed so it's probably more down to setting in ND's case and the fact that melee is pretty decent in TLOU. The walk talking and over all story was dull for me in GoW, mixed with the stealth just annoying in SM- gameplay (and spectacular worlds) saved both for me. I haven't played the last four yet, I'll get around to DG after CP77, TLOU2 when the PS5 remaster drops but unsure if I should wait for remasters with GoT and DS. I:SS/KZ:SF I was ambivalent toward story, HZD had good story/cutscenes but conversations sucked. Fuck The Order, I could have bought a hamburger with the money I spent on that game and the shit I would have taken afterwards would have been better than that stinker.

Fantasy usually requires something else for me to enjoy [in a game]. SciFi almost never annoys me story wise (Prey, DE:HR/MD, TF2 etc.). I do find BioWare's fall from grace this gen quite odd, all three of the games were decent at best with the latter two being a blast to play but nothing to keep playing for. Anthem was the worst cut scene/story wise, I hardly cared at all whereas at least I wanted to know more about the Ryders. Companion dialog in the first two was amazing, that's about the best I can say about DA:I. The OG ME trilogy? Shit, loved ALL the talky bits and cut scenes: (hang up on council), This is my favorite store, shooting bottles with Garrus...

Just about all the MP stories suck. Borderlands, Destiny, Division... drop the cutscenes and voice acting and present your dumb story like Star Fox flight chatter for all I care, you're just getting in the way of shooting things. I finally got around to starting KH3 recently and cannot believe how annoying I find the cutscenes/story so far. JRPGs almost always annoy me for whatever reason, although the handful of other KH games I played didn't bother me so not sure what's up there.

I've played a great deal of Mario games throughout the decades and if you told me there was a story in any of them I wouldn't believe you. And some were RPGs
NGL, the Downtown party in SMO was fucking amazing

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

I hate long cutscenes, especially if they're unskippable. If you're not able to tell all of the relevant story through gameplay, you've chosen the wrong profession imho.

 

[trikster40]

Whole-heartedly agree, and while I love Naughty Dog, I feel like they kind of kickstarted the whole movement.

There’s got to be a better way to advance exposition without taking control away from the gamer. I’m not sure what the solution is.

Is having limited control better than just showing cutscenes, or is it more of a tease? Sure cutscenes suck, but at least I can put my controller down. Forcing me to slowly walk from point A to B while NPC rambles can be so frustrating.

Just let me run, and if I get to point B before NPC finishes, find an alternate way to fill me in later.

 

[Moogle11]

Haven’t played this one yert but I’m 42 and don’t mind long cut scenes or walk and talk sections as long as I’m interested in the characters and story. I love “interactive movie“ type games. If anything my interests could mostly be described as consuming stories as I love movies, shows and books and love story driven games as the interactivity outside of cutscenes etc gets me more invested. I do enjoy some pure gameplay focused stuff, bit definitely play more narrative-driven games.

That said, cutscenes should be skippable for people who don’t care for them.

 

[sublimit]

And AC:V isn't the only one that does this; it's just the most recent. In the last 5ish years it seems Gamers have just accepted (embraced?) long non interactive cut scenes, slow walk and talk sections, and an overall degradation in pacing.

Yeah the forced slow-walking talking sections is one of my most hated trends in this industry. From the top of my head it goes back a long way to the days of Uncharted 3,TLOU,Resident Evil 6,Tomb Raider 2013 and many more. I'm not sure which game started this trend but whenever you take control out of my hands in order to force me pay attention to your "directorial skills" and your pretendious cinematic story i want to straggle a cat (and i love cats).

 

[Humdinger]

I haven't played the game, but I was put off by Skill Up's review of it. He talked about how padded and filled with boring crap it was. There were promises made by the dev team that this installment would be more edited and tightened up, not as flabby as the past entries, but apparently that's not true. It's one of the things I dislike about the AC series -- it's stuffed to the gills with miscellaneous, ultimately boring activities, just to pad out its length.

I didn't realize it also had long, tedious cutscenes to endure as well. That will keep me further away.

Agree with the remarks about Kojima. He should just go and be a movie director. That seems to be his ambition anyway, but he's settled for doing that within the space of the game world. I tried to play Death Stranding, but I couldn't make it 2 hours in. I'm not going sit through a movie. Actually, the game has over 11 hours of non-interactive cutscenes, so it'd be like sitting through 7 movies. No thanks. Go be a movie director, Hideo. We know that's what you really aspire to, you silly auteur.

 

[gunslikewhoa]

Unskippable cutscenes are the only reason I may never play through Ghost of Tsushima again..

 

[HotPocket69]

Black Flag wasn’t good dude davidjaffe

 

[FunkMiller]

What is the matter with you?

He couldn’t get past the hydra.

 

[SirKicksalot]

That intro is probably a reaction to Origins, which starts with a short nonsensical cutscene then throws you into a boss fight. It was really bad.
I liked the chest transition in Valhalla, it's amusing and I'm sure I've seen it before but I can't remember where.

Yet those games are the only ones that ever seem to be on GOTY voting ballots. They're the "oscar bait" of video games. Something like Forza Horizon 3 was never even in consideration for a single GOTY award on any publication yet is without doubt one of the best racing games of all time.

FH3 is the very definition of a game that's rambling and wasting your time with dialogue (lol) and cutscenes. Brilliant game but I want to kill myself every time it starts talking.

 

[The Shift]

But I just don't understand how Gamers (and reviewers, cause this damn thing sits at a 80-86% metacritic, depending on system) are down with the way this title tells its story, mainly the opening.

And AC:V isn't the only one that does this; it's just the most recent. In the last 5ish years it seems Gamers have just accepted (embraced?) long non interactive cut scenes, slow walk and talk sections, and an overall degradation in pacing.

I just can't do it anymore - it's instantly fatiguing.

But look, man: I'm 49 years old! Maybe this is what the kids like (lord knows these sorts of titles sell boat loads!) and perhaps I should just accept that the games that make up the modern AAA space are simply not for me/someone my age (who came up- as a Player and a designer- with gameplay first mentality).

I bought Generation Zero a few days ago. It's been out for a while and was apparently pretty rough at launch but I'm having a blast. It has a good combat loop so far, it's tense in the moment to moment gameplay, and the 80's Swedish open world landscape coupled with great ambient sound design evokes a sort other worldliness. This game tells it's story via the player experiencing the gameworld without taking away player agency to cram in 10 hours of narrative.

Being able to play 1-2 hour stints every other night and not having to be entrenched in a Netflix drama become videogame is all I have the time for these days.

 

[Shmunter]

Don't worry about the camera, it's fine. Most people incl. myself watch your streams for the opinions and observations about games and the industry. You don't need fancy lighting setups or cameras to look good like these you tubers because you have a long proven record of making great games, and your insight is what matters.

He said he wanted to work on his YouTubeing. Feedback was given.

You may be devoted and look past it, as do I. But more casual viewers spoilt for choice may simply move on based on superficialities. If Dave wants to build an audience, no point in leaving basic avenues untapped.

 

[Kev Kev]

Is it Black Flag good? Not at all. But it's a good title, for sure.

 

[Moonjt9]

I get the criticism. However, I will posit that it’s ok, and the reason is this.

There are SO many games to play out there, and some people like that style. There are many other quality games that don’t do that.

I think there are enough choices out there that everyone can enjoy a game in the style they like. If they don’t like that style, the answer is simple. Don’t play it. No need to force every game to be exactly what you want every time.

 

[Strider311]

I don’t mind the cutscenes so much as the utter lack of interesting characters and engaging story. I think this may be the weakest AC yet for me, personally.

I know this is an Ubisoft open world game we are talking about here, but this one feels particularly mundane and repetitive. Very little incentive to keep going when there is an almost nonexistent plot.

 

[mr.dilya]

Assassins Creed, and Ubisoft games in general have no soul whatsoever.

I would never play Valhalla but holy shit at unskippale cutscenes. LMAO, hell no man....burn it with fire.

 

[Hendrick's]

I'm with you. I can't stand it. It's not like the story telling is ever good enough to keep me engaged, so I find myself skipping whatever I can and trying to get to actual gameplay. It makes games like Yakuza titles unplayable for me, but there are many others.

 

[Unknown?]

I'm not pushing for arcade games (altho they are nice).

I love story and IP. I just want to it be something I experience vs. watch.

And if the only way to tell the story is to watch it, perhaps it's not a good candidate for a video game story. A lot of books are amazing but movie studios don't touch them because they can't find a way to wrap the cinematic medium around them. It seems like game stories need that same level of scrutiny (i.e. does our medium tell THIS story well?) before greenlights are handed out.

That's why I love short cutscenes and games that tell a story through gameplay. I don't think any game does this perfectly but I feel TLOU does it pretty well. Never got the criticism that it was a movie.

 

[Forsythia]

I hate it when you start a new game and have to watch a 10+ minute cutscene before you can even go to the options menu. I want to play, not watch. What I usually do is skip the cutscene (if that is possible), play for an hour to get a feel of the controls and options, and then start over.

 

[GeeseGoose]

Totally understand what you mean. As I get older I find I have little patience for pace breaking "walk with" sections, or meaningless padding of ping ponging between the same quest markers/NPCs.

My gaming has become more short infrequent bursts of play and if I have to slog through that stuff I just get turned off.

Just give me a world and a bunch of tasks to do that I can do as I please and without interruption or needless gating and I'm happy.

 

[Azurro]

Ok, before you accuse me of click-baiting you, the video is about this:

Assassin's Creed: Valhalla is a pretty dang good game.Is it Black Flag good? Not at all. But it's a good title, for sure.

Granted, I'm playing it on LUNA as part of the $15.00/month Ubi channel. If I had paid $70.00, I'd be feeling a bit diff, I'm sure.

But still: good, solid entry to the series.

Yay AC:V team!

But I just don't understand how Gamers (and reviewers, cause this damn thing sits at a 80-86% metacritic, depending on system) are down with the way this title tells its story, mainly the opening.

And AC:V isn't the only one that does this; it's just the most recent. In the last 5ish years it seems Gamers have just accepted (embraced?) long non interactive cut scenes, slow walk and talk sections, and an overall degradation in pacing.

But look, man: I'm 49 years old! Maybe this is what the kids like (lord knows these sorts of titles sell boat loads!) and perhaps I should just accept that the games that make up the modern AAA space are simply not for me/someone my age (who came up- as a Player and a designer- with gameplay first mentality).

Mr. Jaffe, you are a legend, have a distinguished career in game development and you have accomplishments in your career that I'll most likely never reach in my life.

That said, allow me to say this: It's a cutscene, enjoy the story. Why do you need to constantly push buttons and get feedback like a 3 year old pressing buttons on a fisher price toy? Sort out your attention span mate.

Edit: Not that Ubisoft knows how to tell a good story, stories in AC are shit, no structure, barely appealing characters, nothing of importance ever happens, only the most boring inoffensive and bland brand of storytelling is allowed to get in there.

 

[LordMuffin]

Cutscenes I don't mind as long as I can skip them. What instantly turns me off from a game is when they force you to slow down while talking with someone on a creaky radio or whatever. I've hated it since the very first Gears of War and that's a big reason why I'm fully retro now: I need to interact with a vidya, so gameplay and responsiveness has to come first. The storytelling is generally mediocre anyway and I'd treat it mostly as an excuse for the the setting of the game to rest upon.

Metal Gear Solid at least has generally very good gameplay and mechanics going for it, especially MGS 2 which is so wacky and over the top that I'm inclined to give it a pass. Also the post-modernist slant of the game has repercussions on the actual interaction, especially towards the end of the story. Every other game mostly take themselves too seriously for me to give a flying fuck. I'm sure there's money to be made catering to our tastes, not everyone wants to be blasted with cutscenes, narration and forced walking before even being allowed to move the damn character.

 

[mr.dilya]

I hate long cutscenes, especially if they're unskippable. If you're not able to tell all of the relevant story through gameplay, you've chosen the wrong profession imho.

That's what makes the Souls games and Sekiro so great. Interesting worlds and lore that you can get lost in without all the fluff.

Western devs, with exceptions, are kind of full of themselves. They think they are movie directors and that they deserve to be nominated for an academy award or something instead of focusing on what makes a game a game.

 

[Yoshi]

Well, I hate it, but then again, I have very narrow tastes and dislike most AAA games.

 

[Boss Mog]

No it's not you Jaffe, long cut-scenes at the beginning of a game is a turn off for me and plenty of others I've talked to. We like when the game puts you right in the action at the beginning Final Fantasy 7 style. Sony Worldwide Studios are pretty good about this, Marvel's Spider-man, The Last of Us, God of War, Ghost of Tsushima, all have minimal cut-scenes at the beginning, you're quickly in the thick of it. I think even if your game is story driven it should be interactive as much as possible and draw the player in. Valve did that so well with the Half-Life and Portal games, no cut-scenes whatsoever yet I felt very engaged story-wise. If the player can put the controller down for extended periods of time because they're forced to sit through long cut-scenes I think the devs failed at making games and should work in movies instead.

The reason games like that still review well comes down to today's game journalists which are just generally awful at playing games (among many other things), I feel like the less they actually have to play, the more they like it. They seem to care more about the game's narrative fitting their world view rather than anything else; gameplay is an after-thought to them.

 

[JORMBO]

I think some of the longer winded walk (or ride a horse) and talk scenes are really bad. You'll start out riding and the NPC is talking to you. Then there's are long periods of silence where they occasionally throw in another comment because the long silence starts to feel awkward from a gameplay perspective. Some of the locations they have you following NPCs to are too far away and it's like they didn't record enough audio for it.

The intro was pretty bad too. It's just a string of cutscenes strung together by 5 seconds of pressing walk forward. I'd rather be actually playing something when the game starts. With the way they did it they didn't even really need to give the player control because they almost instantly take it away again.

Solid game overall but I do have some gripes with it.

 

[PooBone]

Ok, before you accuse me of click-baiting you, the video is about this:

Assassin's Creed: Valhalla is a pretty dang good game.Is it Black Flag good? Not at all. But it's a good title, for sure.

Granted, I'm playing it on LUNA as part of the $15.00/month Ubi channel. If I had paid $70.00, I'd be feeling a bit diff, I'm sure.

But still: good, solid entry to the series.

Yay AC:V team!

But I just don't understand how Gamers (and reviewers, cause this damn thing sits at a 80-86% metacritic, depending on system) are down with the way this title tells its story, mainly the opening.

And AC:V isn't the only one that does this; it's just the most recent. In the last 5ish years it seems Gamers have just accepted (embraced?) long non interactive cut scenes, slow walk and talk sections, and an overall degradation in pacing.

But look, man: I'm 49 years old! Maybe this is what the kids like (lord knows these sorts of titles sell boat loads!) and perhaps I should just accept that the games that make up the modern AAA space are simply not for me/someone my age (who came up- as a Player and a designer- with gameplay first mentality).

Boo fuckin hoo.

 

[wolywood]

Edit: Not that Ubisoft knows how to tell a good story, stories in AC are shit, no structure, barely appealing characters, nothing of importance ever happens, only the most boring inoffensive and bland brand of storytelling is allowed to get in there.

AC Odyssey actually had a fairly compelling story, it's just buried under so much repetitive side quest clutter it's easy to lose track of where you are in the narrative.

 

[davidjaffe]

Mr. Jaffe, you are a legend, have a distinguished career in game development and you have accomplishments in your career that I'll most likely never reach in my life.

That said, allow me to say this: It's a cutscene, enjoy the story. Why do you need to constantly push buttons and get feedback like a 3 year old pressing buttons on a fisher price toy? Sort out your attention span mate.

Edit: Not that Ubisoft knows how to tell a good story, stories in AC are shit, no structure, barely appealing characters, nothing of importance ever happens, only the most boring inoffensive and bland brand of storytelling is allowed to get in there.

Thanks for the kind words .

Allow me to counter tho: trust me, as a lover of movies, tv shows, and books, IF the cutscene is worth enjoying, I'll enjoy it. I'll be unable to help it cause that's what a good story does. Granted, if I enter into the thing in a mindset of wanting to play a game and I'm served up non interactive story, the cutscene prob needs to work a bit harder (i.e. it's like going to a rock concert and realizing it's actually Opera...now it may be great Opera but it's gotta be REALLY great to shift you out of the expectation that you were going to see rock).

So a big part of it is that the vast majority of game stories- while the EXECUTION of said stories has improved leaps and bounds- are still well below that of a Saturday morning cartoon. AKA- if you're going to get in the way of what the product is promising to be (you know, a game...cause it's being sold in the game section...it's NOT a movie) then you better show up with the goods. Otherwise, be prepared to be disliked.

I honestly think Gamers should demand way more out of these stories. If you are going to accept this as part of the genre, fine. But you guys demand photo real visuals and amazing frame rate and 100+ hours of play. You may as well throw 'genuinely compelling story and characters that are worthy of film and/or tv shows' onto the demand pile.

 

[LordMuffin]

gameplay is an after-thought to them.

That's the biggest problem and why I've been disregarding the hype machine for at least the past ten years. It's bittersweet though, Id' really love to feel excited again for a new game.

 

[Nymphae]

It sounds like an absolute slog and when I've looked at videos the narrative elements look boring as fuck, they can't keep getting away with this

 

[davidjaffe]

Boo fuckin hoo.

So you're name. It's 'PooBone'?

 

[Sethbacca]

And AC:V isn't the only one that does this; it's just the most recent. In the last 5ish years it seems Gamers have just accepted (embraced?) long non interactive cut scenes, slow walk and talk sections, and an overall degradation in pacing.

But look, man: I'm 49 years old! Maybe this is what the kids like (lord knows these sorts of titles sell boat loads!) and perhaps I should just accept that the games that make up the modern AAA space are simply not for me/someone my age (who came up- as a Player and a designer- with gameplay first mentality).

I love strong narrative driven games when they're done right. AC:V isn't maybe the strongest in this regard but it's not terrible. What I can do without personally are dozens of fetch quests and escort missions and crap thrown in to pad "gameplay hours" and give the appearance of a longer game. As long as the rest of the game is compelling and the non interactive sections are moving the story forward it's mostly fine as long as it isn't hours of it. There are certain scenes and stories you can't tell through gameplay, and a cut scene can have a stronger impact for those sequences.

 

[dan76]

Unskippable cutscenes are the bane of video games, but there is a huge section of gamers who look at games as their main form of storytelling. Read a few books, maybe, watch some movies, yes, but mostly play video games. They're in it for the stories. I think Pacman got it about right in terms of cutscenes / gameplay balance.

Some people even play Resident Evil for the story. This is something I can't get my head around, but it's true!

 

[michaelius]

I feel like this is 100% a matter of how well executed narrative elements are in the games.

For example Horizon: Zero Dawn was fascinating in that regard as I tried to collect every smallest piece of information and explore every tiny corner of the map to find more so skipping cutscenes was the last thing I'd think about doing.

On the other hand AC is Ubisoft game and their products have that assembly line feel where you see lack of passion put into making it.

And they definitly should never be unskippable

 

[brian0057]

If if wasn't for the god-like gameplay, I would've dropped Deus Ex: Human Revolution given that BS on-rails intro where all you do is walk and talk.
I hate that shit. Leave that crap to Half-Life, where it belongs.

 

[hemo memo]

Hey Mr. Jaffe, you are a legend.

To your point, I think the problem is that they have no choice other than pushing the story as much as they can at the start of the game and same at the end. I mean between very long walk and talk and a cutscene I would rather have a cutscene and pushing as much of the narrative at the beginning then let the player enjoy the open world at their own pace.

 

[TalentedMrJ]

I don't get how gamers are still interested in AC

Slow, forced walking sections don't bother me if I'm invested in the story, characters, and gameplay is fun

But I played The Order 1886 to completion 3 times and enjoyed the hell out of it

 

[nush]

So you're name. It's 'PooBone'?

Don't feed the trolls, you're only giving them validation.

 

[Sander Cohen]

Yea but you could’ve expected that from a game like AC (I wouldn’t know since I never played one game from the series but just guessing). On the other hand, you could’ve jumped straight into Demon’s Souls and get instant action....and pain. Cory Barlog’s GoW did it great I think.