Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
It's the poll guy
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Do you believe Sony and Microsoft swapped positions and Sony has become anti-consumer? (details in OP)
- Thread starter Afro Republican
- Start date
Afro Republican
Banned
Despite some posts, the site seems to be pretty divided on this. Some think it's an exaggeration, but some also seem to believe it's true or they think it "may" be true but are taking a wait and see approach.
This also matches the comments I've seen in numerous threads over time of people complaining about this very issue to some extent. Although I don't agree it's PS3 level yet, granted that's only a couple dozen people who think that. I think if Sony keeps some of their stances on refunds/censor-ship, cross-play, etc., when the PS5 comes out that could be an issue. Of course MS would also have to be careful, at least MS knows what won't work now. the hard way.
That's the big question, if Sony reverses their stances at the PS5 launch than while still irritating a few PS4 users, most will probably move on. Same with MicroSoft, they have to keep the changes they made now, or it will hurt their new console.
This also matches the comments I've seen in numerous threads over time of people complaining about this very issue to some extent. Although I don't agree it's PS3 level yet, granted that's only a couple dozen people who think that. I think if Sony keeps some of their stances on refunds/censor-ship, cross-play, etc., when the PS5 comes out that could be an issue. Of course MS would also have to be careful, at least MS knows what won't work now. the hard way.
That's the big question, if Sony reverses their stances at the PS5 launch than while still irritating a few PS4 users, most will probably move on. Same with MicroSoft, they have to keep the changes they made now, or it will hurt their new console.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
The phrasing of the second and third options leaves a lot to be desired and we are counting 150 votes (and less than that in posts in this thread) in total which is a drop in the ocean and statistically hardly relevant.
SaucyJack
Member
Really? What exactly is on that list?
You might want to educate yourself on other companies anti-consumer practices.
Whilst I use many of their products Microsoft is one of the most anti-competitive, anti-consumer companies out there. They have an incredibly long history of it, and it goes way beyond crossplay on fucking Fortnite. Have you never heard of embrace, extend, extinguish?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_litigation
Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
They are doing cross-play since the PS2, so wtf are you talking about? Other big games don't even have cross-play like, COD, BF, FiFA etc.
Why do we only care about that stupid Fortnite? Even PUBG has no CP since it's now released on PS4. Let other big publisher first talk about it, but every game atm doesn't even have it announced.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I for one haven't voted because I don't think Sony have made any "bad decisions" this gen, as evidenced by their ongoing success.
Playing pretty much an "A game", business-wise imho. Including the way they've handled the cross-play thing and the recent low-key approach to marketing. Some people might not be getting everything they want,. but that's not in my view anti-consumerism, that's just dealing with difficult situations without making things worse.
thelastword
Banned
Wow, that's sad......These guys are so worked up over this generation, you could have sworn XBOX won the prior generation or any other for that matter.....I mean what did they expect, realistically?
You realize nobody is talking about VR, when some of the best experiences this gen could be realized there......
I still remember when MS showed HoloLens close to PSVR's launch, many MS fans said HoloLens was better than VR and it's the future for games etc....Where is HoloLens now btw?
It's just like streaming games never meant much till now, crossplay or even first party games never meant much till MS bought a few studios......When Sony had been excelling at all these things for years.....
So I guess people don't even take too much stock into what MS execs promise or say, because many of these promises have been empty on delivery...There's still no E.T.D on a long bucket-list....I mean, these execs have said they are better at many things, dedicated servers for all games, they created direct X. they created windows, how could any company create a better OS anywhere? So there's no need to go and dig those up, because it's all we've received from them to be frank......
Btw, since MS's uproar and Bethesda's BS'ing on crossplay, how many crossplay games have MS delivered to gamers since then.....Are they leading the charge there? Do you think crossplay would have saved Fallout 76 perhaps?
Neat that you want to show your kids some older games, but PS4 is the only console not to have full BC, every other console from them had it, but it's only because emulating PS3 on PS4 is just nigh on impossible and the work involved for little gain for Sony would not be worth it....I'm so happy they focused all their energies on current gen games tbh.....
Thing is, If I want to play an old game, there's nothing wrong in hooking up an old console...If lightning did not strike my PS3 slim and my 360 had not been stolen some years ago, I'd still hook them up occasionally…..I have My 60Gb, but it's dead after I baked the MB in the oven some years ago....I got another year after that baking though ha ha!...….Hey, a friend of mine even begged me to buy my OG xbox, so I sold that to him begrudgingly, with many games too, something I just don't do, I rarely sell my consoles, but in this only instance I did.... Gave him my NG, Otogis, all my favorite XBOX games, it was also my media center console then, where I streamed my videos and movies to the big screen.....As a matter of fact, I still have a PS2 Fat, hooked that up some time ago to play a little GT3/4, but I can't play for more than a half hour at most...I guess I hooked it up to see if it was still working...
I understand the concept of BC, but the games in their older state is not reason enough to go back....The only thing that will get me to play older games to completion is a remaster/remake....or if I never played the game before......So if BC does a bit more natively, I think it will be good, like the results you can get from PC emulators of PS2/3 games.....If Sony can implement better textures, higher rez and AA in older games and double the framerate (from 30 -60fps)….I think BC will be much more appealing to me.....and of course if they implement trophies like they do with current PS2 classics...I think that will be BC done right for older games....
Well, I don't normally talk too much about Nintendo, because they have never appealed to me like the other console manufacturers.....I still remember how N64 first party games rarely went down in price and I swear they were more expensive than other console manufacturer games, like N64 cartridges vs PS1 discs......I may be mis-remembering, so I'll concede if that wasn't so...I also remember first party GC games staying high in price as well, your Zelda's etc.......So it's nothing strange hearing this from you.....
Their rehashed games keeps on selling and I wish they'd offer a console with current gen specs and make a Zelda around that, I was really stoked about that old Zelda spider video they did at E3 some time ago...….Yet I can't knock them too much, because their stuff has a market and it sells very well.....I mean, New Super Mario Bros U just released on Switch, it's a re-release, sure....but I'm sure that it will sell a whole lot for them. Nintendo fans just lap that up, they buy the games in droves and not just talk about how great they are on forums....They support the devs to make more of what they like....
But I agree, that they should allow their wares to fall down in price more often, as you can buy a classic like TLOU for $5-10 on occasion.....Yet, I guess that's where they make all their money and people buy their games at full price anyway...If it works I guess.....As you said, it's not like they're the best in online services and subs.....So they have to make their money somehow or in that way that works for them...
Maybe so, but it's because we've had so many people trying to ingrain into us that "Sony is anti-consumer"....They want something to stick that just won't......Some of the debating points or rather declarations against Sony and PRO Microsoft comes off like something straight off a PRO XBOX marketing meeting......It's like "these are the points you should hammer down"....
"Sony is Anti Consumer", "Sony is anti-crossplay, mock the #4theplayers theme", "All Sony games are the same cinematic "experience" (a harsher word would replace "experience" obviously), I'll watch on youtube.......etc.. etc.. etc...
Shin
Banned
I think you should take your own advice and while at it also spend some time on reading properly.
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SaucyJack
Member
So you’ve got nothing? Thought so.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Quite so and it is clear when the generic points are repeated almost verbatim and are very seldom or even decently articulated or anything beyond shallow in terms of reasoning... but very angry and quite on the exaggerated side in many cases.
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Afro Republican
Banned
This isn't really rational, a large part of the site thinks this and stripping it down to it being a pretext of "pro-Microsoft" hijinks and trying to "get it to stick" doesn't really apply, and it's not just on this site either, and a lot of the sentiment is coming from people that have had a negative reception of Xbox for most of this gen.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Why doesn’t it apply? Where is this sea of people upset with MS and open to other consoles that are now going around and repeating talking points verbatim without articulating them?
Afro Republican
Banned
You seem to taking this all in a vacuum and believing individuals don't appear to have any issues with MS, when they do, just in different categories. Also the quotes in the OP do articulate, whether you agree with them or not is another issue.
WaterAstro
Member
No, Sony hasn't become anti-consumer.
Consumers have become pro-entitlement.
Consumers have become pro-entitlement.
Catphish
Member
I'm very tempted to do the same. I haven't ignored anyone since I've been a member here, but I've really about had it with the poll spam.
xellos2099alpha
Member
Remember the BS sony pull when they lock people with fornite that once connect to ps4?
Jigsaah
Gold Member
Did you find this distasteful?
https://www.engadget.com/2007/03/22/xbox-360-loves-france-and-spoils-ps3-launch/?guccounter=1
Not really man, Sony does this type of thing all the time, particularly when it comes to Xbox Exclusive launches or events. The thing that gets me is if one company is out right calling out the other company in a satirical or somehwat bullying fashion. When Sony launches a successful exclusive, Microsoft gives them their space, even congratulates them on the launch. You never see this from Sony. Forza 7 launched around the same time as GT Sport. If Metacritic means anything, Forza was the superior game. Not a peep out of Sony. Sony launches God of War, Spiderman? Praise from Phil Spencer, Mike Ybarra and so forth from Microsoft's camp. I mean correct me if I'm wrong please, but I don't recall Sony ever showing this kind of sportsmanship. Yoshida? Kaz when he was in charge? What about Shawn Layden? If you can find an instance of it, I honestly would appreciate it.
This picture and the event behind it is not Microsoft kicking Sony when it's down. It's not reversing track when they find DRM isn't exactly popular with the audience...it's not Kaz and whoever that other goof troop lookin' a-hole showing "how you share a game" on PS4...a direct shot at Microsoft. Yes, I'm salty about that, because it's in bad taste. I know you love your box, I like both companies as a whole myself, but for very different reasons and Sony was definitely out of line with this kind of tactic.
D
Deleted member 740922
Unconfirmed Member
There's plenty around really.
Plenty of little jabs from Microsoft too as well, in fairness.
They're both as bad/good as each other.
Krappadizzle
Gold Member
The Cuckening has begun.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
Fair enough. Is there anything more recent though. I noticed all these are from 2013. There's 6 years between now and then. I'll admit i wasn't aware of these as I didn't follow them back then.
LucidFeuer
Banned
Oh no...if Sony is starting to have degenerate fanboys scums like Nintendo did with the Wii U it's an extremely bad sign...
UltimateUnknown
Member
The positive things Sony has done this gen FAR outweighs any mishaps they may have done.
Sony's first party output this gen literally steamrolls Microsoft's in terms of both quality and quantity. On top of this, PS4 is literally the place to go if you want to have the largest breadth of 3rd party games, both from the west and Japan. Even in that aspect, MS can't compete. Ultimately people buy consoles for games and that's literally what Sony has provided.
Sony's first party output this gen literally steamrolls Microsoft's in terms of both quality and quantity. On top of this, PS4 is literally the place to go if you want to have the largest breadth of 3rd party games, both from the west and Japan. Even in that aspect, MS can't compete. Ultimately people buy consoles for games and that's literally what Sony has provided.
Toe-Knee
Member
As someone who didn't like EA games I was totally fine with that.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
With the two sample quotes I could partially agree and disagree, but I could talk with them in a hopefully constructive way. I guess you did not read much of the “Is Uncharted 4 the most boring game of all time?” thread or many of the other examples of fanboys clustering in threads where Xbox May have been mentioned or was not mentioned at all with the desire to bring down Sony exclusives a peg or two.
I think we have a very small portion of the site here (do we still have less than 200 votes and a big option 3 we are selectively deciding if it means “Sony is indeed evil but people have not figured it out” as you kind of put it a few posts back
?) and questions in the poll, as we as the poll description, kind of meant to lead people one way... but I guess you may say that you have never read any research where the way a question is asked changed the result of polls.
tryDEATH
Member
Its isn't even close Xbox simply offers more and has made more pro-consumer decisions in the second half of the generation. Many will fault them for their lack of 1st party games, but everything else including games in a general sense have found a much more accessible and affordable home on the Xbox console.
Game Pass/Play Anywhere, EA Access, Backwards Compatibility, and Xbox One X have all created an unrivaled offer at a phenomenal price point for what you are getting. There is absolutely no debating that. If you are willing to give up all these programs and features for a hand full of phenomenal titles over 5+ years that is your decision, but it isn't a rational one.
Game Pass/Play Anywhere, EA Access, Backwards Compatibility, and Xbox One X have all created an unrivaled offer at a phenomenal price point for what you are getting. There is absolutely no debating that. If you are willing to give up all these programs and features for a hand full of phenomenal titles over 5+ years that is your decision, but it isn't a rational one.
Kagey K
Banned
The way game pass seems to be ramping up and more and more games are coming sooner and day 1 that’s going to get hard to beat.
I wasn’t a fan of Gamepass day 1 and didn’t subscribe because as an original owner it felt like I owned everything they had, now it’s getting harder and harder to ignore. With the day 1 releases and games I might have bought but mostly ignored. It seems like a no brainer.
They are definitely moving ground, and changing the way the industry can work going forward.
After that day one console buying thread, you can see who is who and whether they are here for a conversation or a shit war, so I appreciate that.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Xbox One X, nothing to take away from what it did right, is hardly the way you save a console generation by asking people who bought your $499 HW to buy a new $499 box again a few years later as the original box keeps performing worse and worse (see DF’s state of Xbox One S, which is already over-clocked compared to the OG Xbox One so you can take a few FPS off from the Xbox One S performance to see how those customers fared).
The offer Sony provides globally has historically been (and keeps being) very aware of a much wider and diverse set of territories (from Europe to Asia, to the Midde East, etc...), they have handled new generation launches without subjecting their current users to big software drought, for many years pushed a basically complete (not select 5-10% of titles) BC offering which unfortunately didn’t move the needle at all with PS3 and PS Vita, MMO and F2P games do not require PS+ (while they still require Xbox LIVE Gold on Xbox One), they extended their generation with a much more price efficient box (which is still outselling Xbox One X), etc...
Sony has a wide variety of first party titles (developed internally or with partners) that not only scratch a SP AAA itch many gamers have, but they have tons of quirky / experimental / creative games that perfectly complement the third parties on the platform and help to Prove viability of genres and concepts. With PS4 they were also able to introduce a new HW platform in PSVR and suppport the ecosystem with their own very well crafted innovative offerings as well as help third parties deliver new experiences (thus also attacking the myth that Sony cannot launch and support peripherals). Meanwhile all generation we have heard the same song about unrivalled offer “Best [Xbox] games lineup ever!”, constant fans put down of their global teams of developers all over the world followed by another 180° whenever they talk about the latest MS acquisition.
Sony allows games streaming and controls sharing online with PSNow and similarly to GamePass you can use the monthly subscription to download more and more games now and, on top of that, you do not have to pay for PSN+ if you want to play multiplayer games through the PSNow service while GamePass asks you to pay for Xbox LIVE Gold on top of GamePass.
Crossplay wise, sure it is not a bad thing to allow people from different ecosystems to play together (stance now officially accepted by Sony, conveniently always forgotten... taking about Sony we forget their changes for the “better” sometimes
), but it would be nice though if MS welcomed cross play when it was them with the much luaeger online user base instead of, and you can find the quotes, taking about how they could not control quality if they allowed crossplay... etc... excuses that seem to be such only if the other side uses them .Then we also have many threads, along the lines of this OP too, where given the impossibility to call PS4 a failure or to mock their demonstrated stewardship of the platform and how people responded to it (not to take away from the good work MS did) the goal is moved to try to create a narrative around the launch of the next consoles and seed fear, uncertainty, and despair about one side and all bright hope, rainbow, and sunshine of the glorious other... that is where the forum PR wars seem to be: trying to create the narrative around Xbox Next and PS5.
Meccs
Member
I would say yes and I believe the PS5 announcement will have similar arrogant choices for this generation like the PS3 and XBox One announcements had. I totally expect Microsoft to hit this one out of the park in the beginning. Pure speculation of course, I still hope both make good choices and respect the consumer equally.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
The interesting thing is that two things that drove the price up for PS3 were Blu-Ray and their quite complete enhanced BC support of PS1 and PS2 games... both of which were big part of Xbox One X being superior to PS4 Pro. I think MS did the right thing not giving up on the console like Nintendo did with the Wii U and invested on the platform, but Sony started from a deservedly earned better position and maintained its spot investing on the platform too, so I see them as well positioned as MS coming into the next generation if not better: sure consumers can be fickle but we have a huge amount of PS4 players around and a huge amount of games bought digitally and thus tied to their PSN account (many of them also invested in the PSN+ community) and that is the reason why Sony will want to have PS5 BC with PS4.
HeresJohnny
Member
This. I don’t trust Microsoft in this area at all. We’ve seen what their intentions were originally with the Xbone and it’s being whispered about that they’re going to push it again only this time under the guise of streaming, which is still total control and ownership on their part.
Two of the 3 current consoles work out of the box by hooking up power and video. A third one requires an initial internet connection and registration of an account with the company. A very anti consumer move. Offline profiles and no internet connection are also something frequently requested on the 3rd companies website but time and again those threads have been closed by the 3rd company. Another very anti consumer move.
Maybe add that information to your poll.
Maybe add that information to your poll.
Nailed it.
Afro Republican
Banned
Community seems split on this. Which on one hand shows that not all of Microsofts' efforts have been in vain. There's a similar split for the average gamer as well. Of course most of them just go to where their friends are so...
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
I don't trust either one, but MS is making the more consumer friendly moves at the moment.
Afro Republican
Banned
I don't think this really counts since the original Xbox one vision was designed with that and they couldn't have just redesigned the console any more then they did before it shipped. (You also could avoid an internet requirement by using a USB if I recall.)
I do think this really counts as my understanding of the intent you are seeking is to answer the question: "Do you believe Sony and Microsoft swapped positions on anti-consumer polices second half of gen?"
I do not believe MS has become pro-consumer by limiting their always online DRM to turning the console on to play video games initially or to anytime you want to create a profile for a friend or child to play locally.
Note: I love Forza, Gears, PGR, and Halo up to around Halo Reach. I was 100% in on the Xbox 360. I payed for live for about 6 years.
They could do any number of things like tie achievements and backwards compatibility to requiring an online connection and I would understand. This is just a bridge too far for my consumption so I've bought a PS4 Pro and a Nintendo Switch.
When and if MS either patches the Xbox one to be an offline out of the box experience and having offline profiles and/or when the XboxTwoY comes out and doesn't have these options I will seriously reconsider them.
Afro Republican
Banned
The issue is striking them for drm when they couldn't change it since the 180 was at the last second, is a bit unfair. That's like blaming Sony for the big PSN hack. At the start they tried to update the security but it was at the last second so the updates didn't take full effect.
Not to mention there's a USB solution to get around the internet connection which at least shows they acknowledged it.
And from what I understand the X has a way to circumvent it out the box if a games inside.
Journey
Banned
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