DownLikeBCPowder
Member
Yeah, because only the actions of yourself can alter the value of products in the marketplace.Naked Snake said:
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Do you feel that the HD Collections coming out "de-value" your old games?
- Thread starter Naked Snake
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Naked Snake
Member
Naked Snake said:
DownLikeBCPowder said:
"for you", "in the marketplace" = two different things.
And I have stressed repeatedly that my point is NOT about monetary value. I swear most of the replies here indicate that people don't posses reading comprehension. smh
whalleywhat
Member
People like first editions of books and obsess over pressings of vinyl (how many were pressed, colored vinyl, what it says on the matrix, etc.) so I guess it just depends on how you regard your video game collection. If you're strictly interested in keeping them around for the purpose of replaying them, which is probably the healthiest approach, then yeah, I guess having an objectively superior version renders them worthless.
DownLikeBCPowder
Member
Naked Snake said:
Well, I'm not sure about you, but an item's value in the marketplace helps determine my personal value. Honestly, if you're strictly asking about emotional attachment, I see no reason at all for the question as emotional attachment is toward the game itself. A release of an older game at a later date, I just don't see how it has any alteration other than potentially a monetary one on older iterations. Though I do have liking to physical objects such as manuals and cases. I have hundreds, however to answer your question I do personally feel that later releases devalue my older items because it increases access directly to a product that was previously limited, even if in a roundabout fashion this can have a detrimental effect if the desire is to keep value.
But to further answer the question, I can't untie dollar values of games to my personal value. A copy of Mario 3 is irrelevant to me because it has no value and I have about ten of them. If it were a particular copy of Mario 3, perhaps the one I originally owned, I might have some attachment to THAT copy. In this case, it isn't the re-release that devalues it, rather the abundance. Sorry if you don't get my point, I don't really get yours.
I've read your clarification post.
EricHasNoPull
Banned
I have a different kind of problem with HD remakes. And that is the wait.
Perfect example is SoC. It's probably one of my top three favorite games of all time and interestingly enough I haven't even finished it!
I'm at the seventh, eight ? Colossi I think?!
I put the game aside long time ago due to life, school and work, I've revisited it once briefly. But now that I've heard about the HD remake, I won't touch the original again. Will wait for the HD version ( I am a Visual whore like that, plus I think it's such a beautiful game visually that PS2's limited graphical capabilities didn't do it justice in that regard)
So to answer your question, no it's not a problem at all for me, plus my original copy of SoC has a personal/sentimental value to me, I don't care about it's market value.
Perfect example is SoC. It's probably one of my top three favorite games of all time and interestingly enough I haven't even finished it!
I'm at the seventh, eight ? Colossi I think?!
I put the game aside long time ago due to life, school and work, I've revisited it once briefly. But now that I've heard about the HD remake, I won't touch the original again. Will wait for the HD version ( I am a Visual whore like that, plus I think it's such a beautiful game visually that PS2's limited graphical capabilities didn't do it justice in that regard)
So to answer your question, no it's not a problem at all for me, plus my original copy of SoC has a personal/sentimental value to me, I don't care about it's market value.
revolverjgw
Member
I no longer have any use for three Sly Cooper games I have for the PS2. I'll no longer have any use for my copies of ICO or SotC when that collection comes out. So yeah.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I'm fine with it if most of it is last-gen stuff. Go further back and there is some endearing quality to it. If I'm playing a PS1 game, I strangely kind of want the experience to be a bit shitty. I'd probably find an old tube TV to hook up my real PS1 to play them.
However, when you get last gen, it's like it wanted to be where we are now and just couldn't make it. Stuff like MGS2 and Shadow of the Colossus. It's pretty obvious that they didn't want it to be lower res with dithering and (in the case of SotC) shitty framerate. Their minds were working on a different level, and anyone who played a PC game in the 5 years before that knew, and the HD development captures made that even more clear.
Would I want that done to the first MGS like they say they will? Hell no! I want to keep my somewhat clunky, pixelated, top down game with hand-drawn talking heads and every sound and piece of music exactly the fucking same. It brought something new, but it was very much a product of its own era. It was defining of its own era, so it should stay there and no remake will ever replace it.
However, when you get last gen, it's like it wanted to be where we are now and just couldn't make it. Stuff like MGS2 and Shadow of the Colossus. It's pretty obvious that they didn't want it to be lower res with dithering and (in the case of SotC) shitty framerate. Their minds were working on a different level, and anyone who played a PC game in the 5 years before that knew, and the HD development captures made that even more clear.
Would I want that done to the first MGS like they say they will? Hell no! I want to keep my somewhat clunky, pixelated, top down game with hand-drawn talking heads and every sound and piece of music exactly the fucking same. It brought something new, but it was very much a product of its own era. It was defining of its own era, so it should stay there and no remake will ever replace it.
PjotrStroganov
Member
I do find it ironic that Sony is making money off it's own failure to implement BC.
PjotrStroganov said:
How so? They could have easily still done this and would have likely still have occurred even if PS3 still had PS2 BC. Due to the improved resolution(HD), improved framerate, handheld versions, transfarring and/or more there would have still be around just as much demand.
PjotrStroganov
Member
Key2001 said:
I don't see this stuff happening as much on Xbox 360 and it has pretty good BC.
Sure, stuff like this will be bought anyway. But I don't think Sony would have put so much effort into it had BC been better implemented.
No. It doesn't devalue the game for me. I take it just like a modernization of the game, like the movie industry did with some black and white classics with the Technicolor transition. I'll cherish the originals just like before, they are the originals after all. But I will play the remakes more often for sure. Monetary value I would think that for collectors the originals will in the long run gain some value, but I don't know for sure.
PjotrStroganov
Member
Key2001 said:
Correct, that's why I was saying 'as much'
They've obviously seen the light after the success of Sony in this matter.
storafötter
Member
To me they "de-value" my collection, but who forces you to buy them? nobody. It is up to yourself if you want to get the same game again even if the past one is still playable. I will only buy the games I don't already have. Higher resolution doesn't make the game better to me.
What the hell, no, no. No.
Even if a Soul Calibur 2-3 "HD remastered" would come out, I would still love and keep my SC2 PS2, because THAT is what I played so much with. I am not someone who keeps things on the shelf for their so-called "values", but because I like them.
No sane publisher should even care a tiny bit about devaluating(?) anything, because those things happen naturally over time. Guess what, your SH2 disc worths less and less every day, until the sudden turn when it becomes insanely hard to find one, and then (or: IF) maybe it will worth more if you kept it in perfect shape all these years.
I am not worrying that my nth edition book has an n+1-th edition coming out. They need to keep it up so it can get to new people, and that is something they should have done with EVERY game for a long, long time now. *Looks at unreleased DC-hd games list*
It is hard to comprehend something that is not even the money, but then about...what exactly? If it is not about money, then what is your problem with these new editions? (Real problem, mind ya.) You should change your attitude towards your old games asap then, because HD editions will keep coming
Even if a Soul Calibur 2-3 "HD remastered" would come out, I would still love and keep my SC2 PS2, because THAT is what I played so much with. I am not someone who keeps things on the shelf for their so-called "values", but because I like them.
No sane publisher should even care a tiny bit about devaluating(?) anything, because those things happen naturally over time. Guess what, your SH2 disc worths less and less every day, until the sudden turn when it becomes insanely hard to find one, and then (or: IF) maybe it will worth more if you kept it in perfect shape all these years.
I am not worrying that my nth edition book has an n+1-th edition coming out. They need to keep it up so it can get to new people, and that is something they should have done with EVERY game for a long, long time now. *Looks at unreleased DC-hd games list*
Naked Snake said:
It is hard to comprehend something that is not even the money, but then about...what exactly? If it is not about money, then what is your problem with these new editions? (Real problem, mind ya.) You should change your attitude towards your old games asap then, because HD editions will keep coming
Does the impending release of Zone of the Enders 1/2 HD for the PS3/Vita make me feel that the value of my current copies of Zone of the Enders 1/2 for the PS2 has lessened substantially? Yes.
Do I care when I consider the jump in quality being offered for the updated version? Nope.
Do I care when I consider the jump in quality being offered for the updated version? Nope.
The Spoony Hou
Member
I know I feel like an idiot for buying Shadow of the Colossus for the PS2, because it runs like a bad port. Now, if it was the only version of the game, alright, that's what you get, but with the HD release it's just shit.
At least there1s some value in my PS2 copy because, well, I don't have a PS3, so I guess it's not all that useless.
At least there1s some value in my PS2 copy because, well, I don't have a PS3, so I guess it's not all that useless.
revolverjgw
Member
ZealousD said:
That piece of shit. There's an example of a remaster that made things worse with its gaudy colors and pussy SNES synths.
sly cooper hd collection for the ps3 is awesome i think.
i get 3 great games for less the price of a new ps3 title.
the graphics still hold up well, thanks to the hd-resolution.
its still one of the best platformers on the ps3, but is actually a ps2-game.. so i dont mind these hd collections. i love them
i get 3 great games for less the price of a new ps3 title.
the graphics still hold up well, thanks to the hd-resolution.
its still one of the best platformers on the ps3, but is actually a ps2-game.. so i dont mind these hd collections. i love them
dr_octagon
Banned
It's still the same game and the experience of playing it will hold true regardless of it being a remake or original. It can attract a new audience and those who wanted an remake will get to play a HD version. The originals may hold sentimental value and any additional content, like artwork, might not be included with the new version. Some people may enjoy how the original looks and prefer it over the updated version.
FleckSplat
Member
Electronics lose value automatically. By the time HD collections come out they have lost all economic value.
I personally would love all the classics to be remastered! The sentimental value is still there for me since I still physically own the original PS2 games and the game for the most part remains the same (fighting the Colossus in GOW2 feels the same).
I have stopped playing those PS2 games because it hurts my eyes every time to see the HDTV stretching the image to the point of it being a smudged mess (upscale + smooth = evil)!
I have stopped playing those PS2 games because it hurts my eyes every time to see the HDTV stretching the image to the point of it being a smudged mess (upscale + smooth = evil)!
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
I say bring them on. The dirty things that I would do to get a persona hd collection.....
Paracelsus
Member
I would care if by selling the PS2 versions I'd get enough money to cover for the HD version price, and that looks highly unlikely. At that point, it's simply better to invest into a pc, adding 40$/ each time a new compilation is released/announced, it wouldn't be long until you would be able to build a machine capable to overkill GC/PS2/Wii emulation, and the better thing would be you don't have to wait for devs to throw a bone at you.
Rodney McKay
Member
HD collections are the DVDs to last generation's VHS tapes.
CamHostage
Member
Much like CDs and DVDs, the inflated value of anything digital may well fall off a ledge once it's been reproduced (by re-release or ripping.) Scarcity is not an issue when something can be replicated perfectly an infinite number of times. There's still room for the physical product collection industry, but collecting in general has become a dying fad in our socially connected world, so much of what we value is now digital and so many things are advertised as "collectible" that only so much can really be valuable in the market.
Plus, who cares? Unless you sell your collection, its value is what you make of it. I have things I paid a good deal of money for that aren't worth crap to anybody but me; I have things I wouldn't sell to anybody despite having bought them for a buck.
But just on the OP's final point about superior reproductions, quantitatively you can look at all the bulletpoints of improvements and say "everything is better," but there are qualities about the original version that have value if you care. The HD remake of Medal of Honor Frontline didn't appeal to me at all because it ran well, the choppy framerate of the original (which is hard to go back to anyway, but I did once to see what it was like back when it was one of the most impressive immersions into an experience I had had on a console) made it feel more like the uneven shutter effect of Saving Private Ryan. (To that point, there are worries that the Shadow of the Colossus remake will be too good and lose the grandeur that the PS2 was visibly struggling to create.) And don't forget that most of these remakes are being made by outside developers - secondary directors are making choices for good or bad on works long after the original director went gold with his work. Remakes change little details, lose graphics or sounds no longer legally publishable, fix exploits, use different controllers and generally make for a different experience. Even simple up-rezing changes things because it illuminates the flaws of the work that get glazed over in SD. Putting a disc or cartridge into a drive can be emotional to some, and some people enjoy the smell of a manual. It gets weird if you explore the details too much.The point is, if you are a connoisseur of experiences, the original holds distinct (tangible or not) value that a copy can never replicate.
Plus, who cares? Unless you sell your collection, its value is what you make of it. I have things I paid a good deal of money for that aren't worth crap to anybody but me; I have things I wouldn't sell to anybody despite having bought them for a buck.
But just on the OP's final point about superior reproductions, quantitatively you can look at all the bulletpoints of improvements and say "everything is better," but there are qualities about the original version that have value if you care. The HD remake of Medal of Honor Frontline didn't appeal to me at all because it ran well, the choppy framerate of the original (which is hard to go back to anyway, but I did once to see what it was like back when it was one of the most impressive immersions into an experience I had had on a console) made it feel more like the uneven shutter effect of Saving Private Ryan. (To that point, there are worries that the Shadow of the Colossus remake will be too good and lose the grandeur that the PS2 was visibly struggling to create.) And don't forget that most of these remakes are being made by outside developers - secondary directors are making choices for good or bad on works long after the original director went gold with his work. Remakes change little details, lose graphics or sounds no longer legally publishable, fix exploits, use different controllers and generally make for a different experience. Even simple up-rezing changes things because it illuminates the flaws of the work that get glazed over in SD. Putting a disc or cartridge into a drive can be emotional to some, and some people enjoy the smell of a manual. It gets weird if you explore the details too much.The point is, if you are a connoisseur of experiences, the original holds distinct (tangible or not) value that a copy can never replicate.
I don't really see how it devalues anything. And, yes, I've read your OP and followup.
These games have always had extremely limited value to most gamers. Most gamers don't want to go back 2 or 3 generations and play games with significant problems in the graphics area (probably why some older 2D games have fared a litter better since they didn't have framerate issuess).
The fact that they're re-releasing them with visuals that don't cut the eyeballs isn't devaluing anything. The people that are willing to buy and play these versions wouldn't want to go buy the old janky version with their inflated prices.
And for collectors? Collecting has always been about rarity. This determines value. An original print book isn't suddenly worth a lot less because they did a reprint with 1 million copies. Collectors are a small subset who value things entirely differently than gamers.
These games have always had extremely limited value to most gamers. Most gamers don't want to go back 2 or 3 generations and play games with significant problems in the graphics area (probably why some older 2D games have fared a litter better since they didn't have framerate issuess).
The fact that they're re-releasing them with visuals that don't cut the eyeballs isn't devaluing anything. The people that are willing to buy and play these versions wouldn't want to go buy the old janky version with their inflated prices.
And for collectors? Collecting has always been about rarity. This determines value. An original print book isn't suddenly worth a lot less because they did a reprint with 1 million copies. Collectors are a small subset who value things entirely differently than gamers.
badcrumble
Member
Should developers intentionally cripple their framerates to make their games more 'cinematic'?CamHostage said:
I'm all for the HD collections even to the point of re-purchasing some PS2 games I already owned, e.g. GOW Collection.
For the games that are getting remake treatment, the collections allow more gamers to enjoy these games without having to pay the exorbitant prices some of these games go for on e-bay.
That said, bring on the ZOE collection. My wallet is ready! And I agree with an earlier poster that we need a Suikoden collection....soon!
Edit: But it seems that a driving factor in getting a HD remake is to raise interest in an upcoming sequal, e.g. GOW3, Sly 4, the Tomb Raider reboot, The Last Guardian, etc. So unless there are plans for a new Suikoden game, I fear that there will be no remake of the earlier games.
For the games that are getting remake treatment, the collections allow more gamers to enjoy these games without having to pay the exorbitant prices some of these games go for on e-bay.
That said, bring on the ZOE collection. My wallet is ready! And I agree with an earlier poster that we need a Suikoden collection....soon!
Edit: But it seems that a driving factor in getting a HD remake is to raise interest in an upcoming sequal, e.g. GOW3, Sly 4, the Tomb Raider reboot, The Last Guardian, etc. So unless there are plans for a new Suikoden game, I fear that there will be no remake of the earlier games.
flyinpiranha
Member
Depends what you mean by value. I value the time and experience I had with previous games more than I would playing them now.
I rarely replay games. I will go back to them and the 'magic' I had going through it the first time isn't there usually. It's the curse of MMO's too ... I keep going back to WoW thinking that first couple years will happen and it just won't no matter how much they "improve" the game.
I think these collections are a great idea, they may devalue hard to find games monetarily but in my mind the memories I have with them are worth more than any dollar amount. I also think they are a great idea because they give others easier access to it.
I rarely replay games. I will go back to them and the 'magic' I had going through it the first time isn't there usually. It's the curse of MMO's too ... I keep going back to WoW thinking that first couple years will happen and it just won't no matter how much they "improve" the game.
I think these collections are a great idea, they may devalue hard to find games monetarily but in my mind the memories I have with them are worth more than any dollar amount. I also think they are a great idea because they give others easier access to it.
MalboroRed
Banned
HD remakes devalue the new games, people are too attached to playing the same old shit at a higher resolution than buy new games, remake this, remake that, HD collection this, HD collection that, there are plenty of great new games out there, people should give those a chance.
I don't believe HD collections make a game worth less value, in terms of money. There are plenty of collectors out there that want a sealed copy of the original release and since they're usually out of production, eBay prices will still be in the sky for those.
Final Fantasy VII, for example (and yes, I know it's not an HD remake, but bear with me), was released on PlayStation Network and is now only a $10 purchase away from any PS3/PSP owner who wants to play it, but eBay prices for the game are still in the $30-$90 zone, the higher prices being used black label copies. And if you want a sealed copy of the original black label, be prepared to smack down at least $500. It's kind of ridiculous.
So, money-wise, I don't think the older games are "de-valued," but gameplay-wise, hell yeah. If an HD version of a game that's exactly the same as its standard definition counterpart releases, why would I choose to play the original release when I can play it in high-def, scoring some trophies/achievements in the process (I'm not a trophy/achievement whore, but the idea is nice)?
Final Fantasy VII, for example (and yes, I know it's not an HD remake, but bear with me), was released on PlayStation Network and is now only a $10 purchase away from any PS3/PSP owner who wants to play it, but eBay prices for the game are still in the $30-$90 zone, the higher prices being used black label copies. And if you want a sealed copy of the original black label, be prepared to smack down at least $500. It's kind of ridiculous.
So, money-wise, I don't think the older games are "de-valued," but gameplay-wise, hell yeah. If an HD version of a game that's exactly the same as its standard definition counterpart releases, why would I choose to play the original release when I can play it in high-def, scoring some trophies/achievements in the process (I'm not a trophy/achievement whore, but the idea is nice)?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Kaijima said:
True, but PS2 BC, even though I think it is a very valuable asset, would have done nothing to add high-resolution rendering, widescreen support, S3D visuals, etc... to those games. At least, there is an incentive for SCE to push this kind of HD editions of classic PS2 games and third parties realized it too.
The old ones are just old PS2 games that some people spent too much on. With the lack of good original titles we sometimes see I think it's great to renew the older classics that a lot of people may have missed out on.
I'm not saying remake them like bad movie remakes. Just clean them up and modernize them a bit like going from VHS to BD.
Of course right after I got the Prince of Persia PS2 games to try finally They made the PS3 version. So now I'm thinking I'll give those away or something and play it at it's best potential.
I'm not saying remake them like bad movie remakes. Just clean them up and modernize them a bit like going from VHS to BD.
Of course right after I got the Prince of Persia PS2 games to try finally They made the PS3 version. So now I'm thinking I'll give those away or something and play it at it's best potential.
If I hung onto my old games specifically with the intention to sell them back at a higher price later on, it would be annoying, sure. Not there's a whole LOT of money in doing that anyway.
If I hung onto my old games just to hang onto my old games, then it wouldn't take anything away from my collection.
However, I hate clutter. I buy a game, I play it, I trade it into Gamestop as soon as I've beaten it. Keeps my shelves clean. I appreciate HD collections to play games I didn't get to the first time around. Then they get traded back in as well.
If I hung onto my old games just to hang onto my old games, then it wouldn't take anything away from my collection.
However, I hate clutter. I buy a game, I play it, I trade it into Gamestop as soon as I've beaten it. Keeps my shelves clean. I appreciate HD collections to play games I didn't get to the first time around. Then they get traded back in as well.