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Do you SEE games as the developer intended?

Whitecrow

Gold Member
May 7, 2018
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Using warm is good to rest your eyes. That's the case on a computer screen, if you use it for work or to browse etc...

However, I believe that when a developer uses white as a color, he intends for it be white and for us to see white. So I am never going to accept warm screen or options when playing video games. It feels totally wrong to me, and I hate it. I also hate how depending on the console, you might get a perfectly white screen or a yellowish one with Nintendo products.

I use a warm filter all day for work. Not for my consoles.
The problem is that your concept of white is in reality "white with a blue tint". What you think is white actually isnt white.

You are wrong when thinking that you are not seeing white in a warmer color temperature.
 
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TraceTheTong

Member
Aug 11, 2019
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You assume all development is made on calibrated equipment!

Saying that, I calibrated my TV as close to correct specs as possible.
Hoo boy. Calibrated Equipment? Sometimes you're lucky with equipment at all! Most people are working on what ever monitor was lying around on an empty desk. I've worked on projects on some terrible screens. I often work with flux on (or brightness far down), to reduce headaches. Artists are always struggling to make colours work across different displays. FX Artists are always pining for GPU slack so they can have more impressive particles, overdraw?? pah! You're always answering client questions like "why does it look so shit on my end?" And you have to answer "Oh I think your iphone 1S 2001 with very cracked screen and children's food rammed in the headphone port simply isn't the target device".

>>"Hi, Mr Tong. The client has had some complaints about the VR experience stuttering on their device."
<<"No problem, could you get the details of the device? It could be a hardware issue but let's be safe."
>>"Sure, they're running it on a Epson printer. But they've assured me that the they have changed the ink."

We laugh in the face of calibration of any kind.

We laugh. Then we cry.
 

cireza

Member
Jun 1, 2014
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The problem is that your concept of white is in reality "white with a blue tint". What you think is white actually isnt white.

You are wrong when thinking that you are not seeing white in a warmer color temperature.
I am not wrong, can you see things through my eyes ? In the end, everyone should simply set their screens however they feel comfortable with, and no one can tell you how you see things and how you should see them. Your avatar is yellowish right now. I am using f.lux setting of 4000K. That's definitely yellowish. Not the kind of tint I want for gaming.
 
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Jan 29, 2019
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We laugh in the face of calibration of any kind.

We laugh. Then we cry.
Hmm we should have had that discussion before, I don't work on video or video games, but I get complaints about simple animations stuttering in web sites ( mind you nobody has yet tried to print an my animations yet).

Anyway, I was arguing with someone on some board about color calibration and I said to that person that many - if not most - in video and certainly video games industry don't work on calibrated equipment, heck most photographers have crappy low resolution monitors because they can't afford any better, or they don't care to know - like enthusiasts are more likely to calibrate their equipment!
 
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Whitecrow

Gold Member
May 7, 2018
883
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I am not wrong, can you see things through my eyes ? In the end, everyone should simply set their screens however they feel comfortable with, and no one can tell you how you see things and how you should see them. Your avatar is yellowish right now. I am using f.lux setting of 4000K. That's definitely yellowish. Not the kind of tint I want for gaming.
Then dont lie...

Dont say you hate warm when you are actually using something waaaaaaaay different from a simple warm color setting.
 

Hostile_18

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Jun 7, 2015
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Excuse my lack of ignorance but even if individual monitors arnt calibrated when all the assets are brought together won't they be tweaked on a calibrated display for the final build?

I'm sure alot (but not all) of development houses do use calibrated displays throughout though.
 
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Whitecrow

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May 7, 2018
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Excuse my lack of ignorance but even if individual monitors arnt calibrated when all the assets are brought together won't they be tweaked on a calibrated display for the final build?

I'm sure alot (but not all) of development houses do use calibrated displays throughout though.
I think thats just how it is.
 

Hostile_18

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Jun 7, 2015
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I am not wrong, can you see things through my eyes ? In the end, everyone should simply set their screens however they feel comfortable with, and no one can tell you how you see things and how you should see them. Your avatar is yellowish right now. I am using f.lux setting of 4000K. That's definitely yellowish. Not the kind of tint I want for gaming.
Hes right your use to seeing white with blue tint. Nearly all tvs on default mode are bright and over saturated with a cooler temp to attract people to the tv in store.

When I first went to warm years ago I thought white looked yellow. Now it looks perfectly white and cooler settings look far too blue. A correctly set display can change the entire look of a game I.e the Horizon expansion. A humid setting can appear icey with the wrong settings, lessening the experience of the game. Conversely a scene with a bit of blue in it will have shit loads in it with the wrong settings.
 
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Whitecrow

Gold Member
May 7, 2018
883
826
455
Hoo boy. Calibrated Equipment? Sometimes you're lucky with equipment at all! Most people are working on what ever monitor was lying around on an empty desk. I've worked on projects on some terrible screens. I often work with flux on (or brightness far down), to reduce headaches. Artists are always struggling to make colours work across different displays. FX Artists are always pining for GPU slack so they can have more impressive particles, overdraw?? pah! You're always answering client questions like "why does it look so shit on my end?" And you have to answer "Oh I think your iphone 1S 2001 with very cracked screen and children's food rammed in the headphone port simply isn't the target device".

>>"Hi, Mr Tong. The client has had some complaints about the VR experience stuttering on their device."
<<"No problem, could you get the details of the device? It could be a hardware issue but let's be safe."
>>"Sure, they're running it on a Epson printer. But they've assured me that the they have changed the ink."

We laugh in the face of calibration of any kind.

We laugh. Then we cry.
Anywho, I dont think thats the case for first party teams that makes graphical showcases, and those are the games you should want your screen calibrated for.
Some devs spend hours and hours creating the textures and the ilumination model making it look as life-like as possible, so with an non-calibrated screen you are kinda missing all that work.
 
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cireza

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Jun 1, 2014
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Stop being pretentious for a second, then a discussion might happen.

Hes right your use to seeing white with blue tint. Nearly all tvs on default mode are bright and over saturated with a cooler temp to attract people to the tv in store.
My reference is called the real world. Open a window or go outside, look at the clear blue sky. Look at the things around you. Look at a white car. Look at clouds. This is what I consider being white. This is my reference for comparing things that are white in my screens.
 
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Hostile_18

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Anywho, I dont think thats the case for first party teams that makes graphical showcases, and those are the games you should want your screen for.
Some devs spend hours and hours creating the textures and the ilumination model making it look as life-like as possible, so with an non-calibrated screen you are kinda missing all that work.
Having vastly incorrect settings is kind of like ordering a posh meal and then covering it with tomato sauce :)

Custom settings never seem to work outside of minor tweaks because yes you may be able to get one scene looking better but your likely taking away from another scene/scenario.

Games it's harder to pin point what is correct at first as theres less life life content like in films. I find it best to calibrate for home cinema and bring those settings across with game mode enabled. Life like skin tones (so everyone doesn't have high blood pressure) and accurate whites really do add so much in my opinion.
 
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Whitecrow

Gold Member
May 7, 2018
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Stop being pretentious for a second, then a discussion might happen.


My reference is called the real world. Open a window or go outside, look at the clear blue sky. Look at the things around you. Look at a white car. Look at clouds. This is what I consider being white. This is my reference for comparing things that are white in my screens.
You just defined 6500K white. Congrats.
 

Whitecrow

Gold Member
May 7, 2018
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Looks like this is white as well. Incredible.
How would I explain this...

A screen calibrated at 6500K, displaying white, IS DISPLAYING THE MOST ACCURATE WHITE the screen is capable of.

Dont like it? Or you dont think that isnt the white of the clouds? Its fine.
But that's the reality.

You may tweak brightness, contrast, or whatever, just so your white can look like a real cloud, but then you will absolutely mess all accuracy to make the screen white fit your white idea, thing that you should not aim for.
 
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TGO

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Sep 5, 2007
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I'd say the only alteration I do is have colour tone set to Natural.
Cool is too blue and Warm 1 is OK but does have a yellow hue to it on whites in comparison.
Warm 2 is too warm.
But I have everything else off.
 

cireza

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Jun 1, 2014
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How would I explain this...

A screen calibrated at 6500K, displaying white, IS DISPLAYING THE MOST ACCURATE WHITE the screen is capable of.
And that's perfectly fine, and this is what I personally want from my screens when playing video-games. Obviously, you misunderstood what I was saying.

I want a screen that can display this perfectly 6500K white when I play my games. If my handheld console screen is not able to do this, I am not satisfied.

For example here with the Switch :


One of these is not close to 6500K, and that's a problem for me. How was the developer intending for me to see the game ?

In the end, blueish or yellowish white is a matter of taste. BUT, people should be able to choose the tint of their screen as they see fit.
 
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TraceTheTong

Member
Aug 11, 2019
63
221
360
Hmm we should have had that discussion before, I don't work on video or video games, but I get complaints about simple animations stuttering in web sites ( mind you nobody has yet tried to print an my animations yet).

Anyway, I was arguing with someone on some board about color calibration and I said to that person that many - if not most - in video and certainly video games industry don't work on calibrated equipment, heck most photographers have crappy low resolution monitors because they can't afford any better, or they don't care to know - like enthusiasts are more likely to calibrate their equipment!
Anywho, I dont think thats the case for first party teams that makes graphical showcases, and those are the games you should want your screen calibrated for.
Some devs spend hours and hours creating the textures and the ilumination model making it look as life-like as possible, so with an non-calibrated screen you are kinda missing all that work.
Both of these points are right. I was being over-the-top for comical effect using my experience in the games industry. There are teams that actually need perfect calibration and, indeed, get it.
 

wvnative

Member
Feb 10, 2016
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I can't stand that Warm 2 piss filter bullshit.

Cool all the way. Don't care if it's incorrect, it looks better to me.
 

Hostile_18

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Jun 7, 2015
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Yea this is one of the things holding me back for now. Wonder if we'll ever have a display capable of true blacks without a burn-in problem. First plasma, now OLED.
You really dont have to worry about burn in on modern OLEDS. You would really have to try to get burn in by playing the same content and only the same content for hundreds of hours.

I've had loads of big gaming sessions and never had a problem. Theres loads of safeguards built in like pixel shift etc as well. Cant beat an OLED for picture IMO.
 
May 8, 2016
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I'd be interested in seeing the games the way the dev. intended. Idk if I have the proper equipment and settings to do so on a consistient basis though, so I'll settle for whatever I can see rather than not see it at all.
 

Pagusas

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Jun 9, 2006
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Warm 2 isnt always the most accurate, Samsung screens are notorious for over doing warm 2, with warm 1 actually being closer.
 

Fbh

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Dec 6, 2013
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I just set it to how I like it. I do have all post processing off but I'm not sure about the Warm 2 thing, probably not as I don't like the image being too reddish

I'm also not too sure about the "intended" aspect. Devs should know the overwhelming majority of their customers won't play on a calibrated display.

I never really got the whole "calibrated picture" thingy.... I guess if you are really into movies and really want to get as close as to what the director intended. Aside from that I don't know why you wouldn't simply go with what looks best for you
 

Hostile_18

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I just set it to how I like it. I do have all post processing off but I'm not sure about the Warm 2 thing, probably not as I don't like the image being too reddish

I'm also not too sure about the "intended" aspect. Devs should know the overwhelming majority of their customers won't play on a calibrated display.

I never really got the whole "calibrated picture" thingy.... I guess if you are really into movies and really want to get as close as to what the director intended. Aside from that I don't know why you wouldn't simply go with what looks best for you
It's so the colour the game is requesting is the colour that is displayed to the player. If the settings are wrong it can change the entire look of a scene (it it meant to be a hot or cold day?, is it meant to be a pure white displayed or an offset?, natural skin tones vs high blood pressure/sunburnt skintones etc, etc).

It's true most gamers won't play on a calibrated screen but nothing can be developed without adhering to standards as even these standards are used for the individual tv to manipulate what they feel their users want or rather look more attractive to casual audiences etc.

Its tempting to have everything over saturated, blue in your whites etc as on first glance you feel like it looks better but your robbing yourself of more life like scenes as they were developed by the people giving you the experience.

End of the day though preference is fine, I just advocate giving it a chance first (for a week or so) as there is alot to potentially gain.
 
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