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Do you think PlayStation 5's exclusives will develop more quickly because of the SSD/System Architecture? (< 1 month development triangle)

I have a feeling that First Party titles for the PS5 will be developed at a much quicker pace compared to the PS4's generation because of the new innovations in the console architecture.

The fact that Spiderman 2 and God of War 2 are rumored to come out next year tells me something's really changed with this console's development triangle, as Cerny mentioned it to be less than 1 month!

So GAF, what do you think? Will Sony's WWS produce their games at a faster pace because of the new architectural features of the console?
 
yep you're right:

2,5GB/s SSD = 5years development time for AAA games

5GB/s SSD = 2,5 years development time for AAA

10GB/s SSD = 1 year development time for AAA game

20GB/s SSD = no development time for AAA game

because of this revolutionary logic MS has no chance and sony will drop each year 30 exclusive games.

all praise to you brain and sony
 
People need finally to understand that a faster SSD only loads data faster in the RAM.

A faster SSD doesn't magically improve the CPU, GPU, TF's or anything else, it just loads the data faster, nothing more!
782358.jpg
 

ethomaz

Banned
yep you're right:

2,5GB/s SSD = 5years development time for AAA games

5GB/s SSD = 2,5 years development time for AAA

10GB/s SSD = 1 year development time for AAA game

20GB/s SSD = no development time for AAA game

because of this revolutionary logic MS has no chance and sony will drop each year 30 exclusive games.

all praise to you brain and sony
Actually he is right.

Cerny even talked about an example.

“The system's solid state drive significantly reduces the duplication found in today's biggest games. Modern games mitigate read speed limitations by by segregating pieces of a game into data chunks that use tons of duplicated assets and lead to big file sizes. Now with the 5GB/sec throughput for data processing, developers don't have to worry about replicating assets.”

You already eliminate a task that take time from your development work.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
People need finally to understand that a faster SSD only loads data faster in the RAM.

A faster SSD doesn't magically improve the CPU, GPU, TF's or anything else, it just loads the data faster, nothing more!
You don’t even need to load data in the RAM with a faster SSD lol
 

ethomaz

Banned
He didn't say anything wrong though.

It may not speed up development, but the debugging aspect is very true.
He said.

Because the fast SSD indeed speed up development because you have less things to develop/deal.

- You don’t need to deal with slow HDD limitations.
- You don’t need to work in duplicate data in the disc.
- You don’t need to create scenes/tricks to hide loading from the gamers.

That is all tasks that increase the dev time.
In others terms SSD indeed speed up development.
 
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Windows-PC

Banned
You don’t even need to load data in the RAM with a faster SSD lol

Even if you are right, an SSD doesn't magically improve the CPU, GPU, TF's or anything else. And development time is probably the same because you still have to create the assets at least once. You just need to save them once on the SSD instead of 100 times like before. This will improve loading times and will save SSD space, but it will not reduce development time. Okay, maybe a litte bit because they save some optimization time ;)
 

ethomaz

Banned
Even if you are right, an SSD doesn't magically improve the CPU, GPU, TF's or anything else. And development time is probably the same because you still have to create the assets at least once. You just need to save them once on the SSD instead of 100 times like before. This will improve loading times and will save SSD space, but it will not reduce development time. Okay, maybe a litte bit because they save some optimization time ;)
An example of something you don’t need to do/create when developing a game that take time.

“The SSD has me really excited. You don’t need to do gameplay hacks anymore to artificially slow players down—lock them behind doors, anything like that. Back in the cartridge days, games used to load instantly; we’re kind of going back to what consoles used to be.”

You don’t need to create a whole animated scene just to trick the gamer while the game load data from HDD.

That is the definition of cutting development time decreasing the tasks you need to develop in a game.


i think you don't need data at all 😏
You need.
 
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Windows-PC

Banned
An example of something you don’t need to do/create when developing a game that take time.

“The SSD has me really excited. You don’t need to do gameplay hacks anymore to artificially slow players down—lock them behind doors, anything like that. Back in the cartridge days, games used to load instantly; we’re kind of going back to what consoles used to be.”

You don’t need to create a whole animated scene just to trick the gamer while the game load data from HDD.

That is the definition of cutting development time decreasing the tasks you need to develop in a game.



You need.

I believe you, there are probably alot of thing that developers doesn't need to care about anymore because of the fast SSD's.

But then there is something else, and I would like to know what you think about that.

Okay, there are things that developer doesn't need to care anymore because of the fast SSD's and therefore they save development time. But then there are other things that needs to be done, maybe more complex AI's, higher resolution Textures, more complex stuff which would lead to more complex games, and in the end it is the same development time aas before. I hope you understand what I mean, you save development time there, but on another place the development time increases because of more new possibility the consoles gives developers :)

What do you think about that?
 

ethomaz

Banned
I believe you, there are probably alot of thing that developers doesn't need to care about anymore because of the fast SSD's.

But then there is something else, and I would like to know what you think about that.

Okay, there are things that developer doesn't need to care anymore because of the fast SSD's and therefore they save development time. But then there are other things that needs to be done, maybe more complex AI's, higher resolution Textures, more complex stuff which would lead to more complex games, and in the end it is the same development time aas before. I hope you understand what I mean, you save development time there, but on another place the development time increases because of more new possibility the consoles gives developers :)

What do you think about that?
If you plan to do more things you will need more time.
A complex game will take more time to develop than a simple game.
A big open world game will take more time than a smaller open world game.
That is comparing Apple to Oranges imo.

That is not what Cerny was talking... the time to triangle is decreased to less than month in his words... the time you needed to do something is decreased.
 
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How do you even come up with this crap? Like those mental gymnastics are insane almost.
what’s next?
Dedicated 3D Audio chip will automagically create the sound on its own and transform the sound into our ears so that devs only need to focus on graphics?

Really looking forward to your next thread! ☺

If you liked this topic, you can read more in my other books, such as ...

'How 9 is actually more than 12'
'Why having superior specs is inefficient'
'Ray tracing is shit anyway'
'I never liked Backwards compatibility'
and
'Is it better to be worse? I say, Yes!'
 
If you liked this topic, you can read more in my other books, such as ...

'How 9 is actually more than 12'
'Why having superior specs is inefficient'
'Ray tracing is shit anyway'
'I never liked Backwards compatibility'
and
'Is it better to be worse? I say, Yes!'
This so accurately depicts what's going on around here right now, the heights of delusion are reaching unprecedented levels.
 
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Zannegan

Member
...no. Why would it?

Time to triangle used to mean the initial time it took just to figure out how to make a graphic appear on the screen. Since hardware has gotten much less esoteric, it's become basically a non-issue.

My understanding of how Cerny used the term was that it took less than a month to have a good grasp of the hardware (not just make something show up on screen), which is good, but would only help with the first round of games, no? It's a one-time learning experience.

Plus, with most if not all of year 1's games being cross-platform, it would be even less of an advantage, long term. Sure, it will allow porting studios to spend fewer man-hours bringing games over, but for consumers we're going to see the same number of games at launch as we would have otherwise.

It should have no appreciable impact on the speed of first party development after the first year, and maybe not even then.
 
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Those hundreds of people still need to coordinate, write, draw and and model all that shit a few years, while the coders "triangulate" on the side.

Honestly, it's neglectable since the PS4/Xbone gen
 

Shin

Banned
Yes, when has WWS not properly made use of a PlayStation?
Matter of fact it would be really strange for any 1st party developer on any platform not to fully support new features.
It's beneficial to Sony also, your ass can go out and buy a new game sooner - chi ching! :messenger_tongue: [joke obviously]
 

ANIMAL1975

Member
If you liked this topic, you can read more in my other books, such as ...

'How 9 is actually more than 12'
'Why having superior specs is inefficient'
'Ray tracing is shit anyway'
'I never liked Backwards compatibility'
and
'Is it better to be worse? I say, Yes!'
Great finding! You're the best contribution to the thread, thank you.

Sarcasm/of: People who don't agree with OP like DynamiteCop, are actually discussing and presenting arguments, other people like me who don't have the knowledge to do the same, but are interested, come to read the arguments of both parties, and get some knowledge.... You are just negativity to the thread and just here to troll, these things seem to upset you more than it should, that's not healthy.

This so accurately depicts what's going on around here right now, the heights of delusion are reaching unprecedented levels.
... and now you lost me dude. That's what happens in our forum, and all the others, every time new hardware is revealed!

That's discussing the new features, and claims of magic sauces, inherent to every new generation and system _ wasn't it the main topics of Gaf after the DF full reveal of XSX!? Didn't the same speculation and discussion about fantastic, and magical new features like the 25Tf for RT, happened? _ yes it did, for the sake of understanding and/or clarifying misinterpretations.
There are people who want to read and understand how things work (or don't of course lol), so be contributing everyone!... stop being so defensive and 'anti topics', 'anti opinions', ffs.
 
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PocoJoe

Banned
yep you're right:

2,5GB/s SSD = 5years development time for AAA games

5GB/s SSD = 2,5 years development time for AAA

10GB/s SSD = 1 year development time for AAA game

20GB/s SSD = no development time for AAA game

because of this revolutionary logic MS has no chance and sony will drop each year 30 exclusive games.

all praise to you brain and sony

So you dont think that (numbers out of my head example) is real:

20-30% of the work to dev current gen game is optimizing data transfer from slow HDD to mem, to make things work, design graphics, areas, geometry, everything to fit the slow data transfer rate of HDD

next gen/PS5:

Now you dont have to think stuff like that almost at all/not at all, devs can just have a vision and then do it, without having to think the limitations of slow HDD. No need to spend last +6months to optimize worst case scenarios where HDD saturates

That is what Cerny basically said, it removes some limitations that take lot of time from the development.

Will it be a miracle that cuts time to half? Probably not, will it cut costs and time, probably it will.
 
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Great finding! You're the best contribution to the thread, thank you.

Sarcasm/of: People who don't agree with OP like DynamiteCop, are actually discussing and presenting arguments, other people like me who don't have the knowledge to do the same, but are interested, come to read the arguments of both parties, and get some knowledge.... You are just negativity to the thread and just here to troll, these things seem to upset you more than it should, that's not healthy.


... and now you lost me dude. That's what happens in our forum, and all the others, every time new hardware is revealed!

That's discussing the new features, and claims of magic sauces, inherent to every new generation and system _ wasn't it the main topics of Gaf after the DF full reveal of XSX!? Didn't the same speculation and discussion about fantastic, and magical new features like the 25Tf for RT, happened? _ yes it did, for the sake of understanding and/or clarifying misinterpretations.
There are people who want to read and understand how things work (or don't of course lol), so be contributing everyone!... stop being so defensive and 'anti topics', 'anti opinions', ffs.

Didn't mean to upset anyone. It was just a bit of a joke about the stream of Sony Defense Force threads we've seen in the last 24 hours.

I really didn't think people would be taking the news from Sony this hard!
 
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ANIMAL1975

Member
Didn't mean to upset anyone. It was just a bit of a joke about the stream of Sony Defense Force threads we've seen in the last 24 hours.

I really didn't think people would be taking the news from Sony this hard!
Lol Sony Defence Force.
It was low effort bite, this topic isn't even comparing with XSX, it's about reducing development time from ps4... and for first party exclusives _ not even about multiplat games!
So again, you (and others) are the one taking any positive news from Sony so hard...
 
So you dont think that (numbers out of my head example) is real:

20-30% of the work to dev current gen game is optimizing data transfer from slow HDD to mem, to make things work, design graphics, areas, geometry, everything to fit the slow data transfer rate of HDD

next gen/PS5:

Now you dont have to think stuff like that almost at all/not at all, devs can just have a vision and then do it, without having to think the limitations of slow HDD. No need to spend last +6months to optimize worst case scenarios where HDD saturates

That is what Cerny basically said, it removes some limitations that take lot of time from the development.

Will it be a miracle that cuts time to half? Probably not, will it cut costs and time, probably it will.
I guess that’s why it took so little development time, 4-5 years, for the big ps5 games based on the chart that Cerny showed where they had reduced the «whatever the hell he was trying to explain» time from 6 months in the ps3 era to 1-2 months in the ps4 era.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
I don't expect any changes TBH, 1 exclusive per team during entire generation. If anything, I won't be surprised if the teams will actually take even more time to polish their games as much as possible.
 

iJudged

Banned
People need finally to understand that a faster SSD only loads data faster in the RAM.

A faster SSD doesn't magically improve the CPU, GPU, TF's or anything else, it just loads the data faster, nothing more!
This people. If faster fucking ssd did any of those things Cerni or whatever his name is would have emphasized and talked about that, it's not doing shit except load the game 2 seconds (if that) faster then xsex... That's all it's going to do... 😂
 

Perrott

Gold Member
1 exclusive per team during entire generation.
Spider-Man 2 it's seemingly planned for a 2021 release, which would mean a 3 year development cycle. Also, many of Sony's studios are shifting towards a multi-team structure (see Guerrilla, Japan, Santa Monica or Insomniac), so we are going to see more AAA first party releases on the PS5 than we did during the PS4 era.
 

Trimesh

Banned
Well Cerny disagree with you.
Well you are always wrong so not surprise.

You do understand it's all just PR, right? Sony have found themselves in the rather unhappy position where most of their specs are objectively inferior to the competition. Obviously they are going to seize on the areas where they aren't and put them forward as being of critical significance.
 

Ogbert

Member
I think it will revolutionise everything.

Sony gamers will be able to instantaneously get access to their cinematic 30 frames per second.
 

Porcile

Member
It's called hiring more people and crunching more. It's literally how every studio in the world has made games on time when each new generation comes around.
 
Lol Sony Defence Force.
It was low effort bite, this topic isn't even comparing with XSX, it's about reducing development time from ps4... and for first party exclusives _ not even about multiplat games!
So again, you (and others) are the one taking any positive news from Sony so hard...

You’re absolutely right, this is a very serious matter and I’m just salty about all of Sony’s good news.
You read about it but you never know the true horror of console war until you’re in one.
 

ethomaz

Banned
You do understand it's all just PR, right? Sony have found themselves in the rather unhappy position where most of their specs are objectively inferior to the competition. Obviously they are going to seize on the areas where they aren't and put them forward as being of critical significance.
Yeap that is what is happening... developers where fooled too.
I think you need to think more about lol
 
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