Does it upset you when a TVshow/Movie/Game etc, you like has the creators make one of the characters LGBT retroactively purely for agenda purposes?

Is people changing story/characters to be LGBT for agenda purposes in mid/long running series bad?


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Afro Republican

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So with the new reveal that Mr.RatBurn from the TV show arthur is gay, and that the change was "planned" awhile back, this would make it one of the dozens of characters retroactively changed in a long running TV show in the last only 3 years. This also applies to movies, books, and also has applied to games as well recently and in the past, which is nothing more than POISONing the well.

It's been past time to talk about this rapidly growing "trend" that's becoming more and more annoying.

This has actually happened more than people want to admit in the last 15 years, thousands of subjects or characters have been changed retroactively and it's not because there was some obvious hint, or that there was some explanation. No, like a Harold in Captain Underpants, these are ALL shoe-horned in, not one "public change of character" was done because of some legitimate reason. Just an abrupt change to get a reaction or to slide in an agenda.

So how would you feel if your favorite game has this happen to you? Or movie? Book? TV Show?

One day you're looking online and BAM, Samus is a lesbian just because. Solid Sanke was gay the whole time. All the Ed borther in Ed Edd and Eddy where not all sleeping with eachother, Rugrats was nothing but incest, Harry Potter was changed to a transgender along with Obi-Wan. Bulma from Dragon Ball was a Transwomen the whole time and she had the kids magically with the dragon balls.

I would assume in many cases while maybe funny in some cases, most would be livid.

But this has been happening for awhile and increasing in base, as much as 50 changes in the last 7 months world wide in popular or mildly popular franchises. The idea is to take a continuing or long running but now defunct franchise, either one, and throw the agenda in on the sly. Then you'll go "awwww" and next thing you know you're 100% on board.

Except for most people that won't happen and instead they'll just not even bother interacting with the series again and likely will just shun the company producing this garbage.

Everything most be politics even if it doesn't make sense and benefits no one other than causing massive amounts of rage. But we already know that people would rather lose money than stop fooling around with this crap agenda so...
 

daveonezero

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I couldn't care less and I think it should be left open to interpretation.

there are very few people in the world that go around unsolicited sharing their sexual preference or activity to strangers. Even though some think it should matter more than it should.
 
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Don't write shit. If there is no reason to do something, and doing it makes an objectively worse work, then don't do it. It's shit. Little writer's tip, from me to you.
 
Sep 4, 2018
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Mostly no, it's when its introduced in a way that's virtue signaling where it ruins the immersion of the story where it becomes a problem.

Like when it's done badly, it's usual feels like the character is winking at the camera and saying "diversity!"

women of MCU "We got this!"
 
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Rran

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I think it feels a little cowardly from a viewpoint of both sides of the political spectrum.

Right/conservative viewpoint: you're just trying to appeal to the LGBT crowd by making a character gay.

Left/democrat viewpoint: you're retroactively calling someone gay even though there was nothing gay about that character during the series' run. You're just piggybacking on a movement without doing any of the legwork.

In short, it's stupid. Obviously not every gay character has to go around "being gay" or whatever, but don't do this years later thing where HEY GUESS WHAT, WE'RE PROGRESSIVE!
 
Jan 16, 2019
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Your bigotry is showing. Not sure why a character being gay needs to be explained, also many time in real life people hide the fact they are gay only to come out at 40 years old. Hopefully they dont offend you.
 
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oagboghi2

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Your bigotry is showing. Not sure why a character being gay needs to be explained, also many time in real life people hide the fact they are gay only to come out at 40 years old. Hopefully they dont offend you.
"Bigotry". Really? To disagree with a casting decision?

I find it annoying, but not enough to drop a show. I just roll my eyes and move on.
 
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autoduelist

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If a character on a TV show suddenly starts talking about Pringles for no reason, you know it's actually for a reason that has nothing to do with the character, the show, or the story. It's an ad, a promotion for something done as a transaction for a small slice of the viewer's mind space.

Not so subtle lines in shows or games that sit there like stale farts, pushing a political agenda rather than being an integral part of the story, are the same things. It's the writer deciding they want to push an agenda into your head. Regardless of whether I agree with the agenda or not, I hate this.

Show, don't tell. You want to speak about a topic? It should be tightly weaved into the story. 1984 doesn't need to say how bad authoritarianism is. It doesn't render judgement through weakly written dialog. Rather, it creates a world and let's the audience come to their own conclusions.

Odds are, if an established character suddenly has deeply rooted feels on a topic, it's not well written. They're just selling you this weeks flavor of Pringles.
 
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Tesseract

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only if it's really fisted through, like, someone like uh, commander riker being gay

that shit don't make no sense dawg
 

Shaqazooloo

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If it's done organically then no, if it's just to push an agenda than yes. I suppose overall I don't care but if it's handled poorly and done so to score some diversity points than yeah I guess my jimmies might get a little rustled.

I remember not liking the end of The Legend of Korra because of that lesbo thing came out of nowhere and didn't really fit. I feel kind of the same way with Kill LA Kill, sort of soured the whole series for me tbh.

I suppose the later most likely wasn't agenda driven though since it's Japan.
 
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DiscoJer

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One of them that bothered me was when they made Sulu (from Star Trek) gay. While the actor is, the character was something of a ladies man, if not quite to Kirk or Spock's level.
Chekov would have made more sense.
 

Guynamedbilly

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What grinds my gears is the usual suspects celebrating any and every non heterosexual, non white, or non male announcement as if it's a late festivus gift. I had to Google Mr. Ratburn because I couldn't imagine the preschooler show Arthur dwelling on sexuality and being the show you were talking about and thought there must be another show with the same name.

Nope. Of course the top results on google are part of the great gay conspiracy. People thinking it's just fabulous that their bedroom preferences are infesting children's cartoons.
 
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jolof96

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yes. Brooklyn 99 took a severe nosedive season 5 where Diaz all of a sudden comes out as bi, despite already having an openly gay police chief since the first episode.

Plus all the Peralta and Sandiago wedding lovey dovey crap was crap
 
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Mohonky

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Yes and no. No I don't care if the character is gay, bi, whatever. Stating it after the fact when a characters sexuality is entirely irrelevant but it's brought up anyway for virtue points is just ridiculous.

If it's not explicitly stated in the material they can be whatever anyone wants them to be.
 

royox

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I don't care if it's well done (Ellie on TLOU dlc)
I care and i hate it when it's very bad done like bioware usually does (Kaidan not even ONCE hitting on Male Shepard for 2 games and suddently "hey Shepard I'm so gay now lets bang!! Did I told u I'm so gay now? Btw I'm gay now hellooooo!").
 
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Shy Fingers

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I hate when its incorporated for points and they're a gay stereotype (I'm looking at you Modern Family).
What grinds my gears is the usual suspects celebrating any and every non heterosexual, non white, or non male announcement as if it's a late festivus gift. I had to Google Mr. Ratburn because I couldn't imagine the preschooler show Arthur dwelling on sexuality and being the show you were talking about and thought there must be another show with the same name.

Nope. Of course the top results on google are part of the great gay conspiracy. People thinking it's just fabulous that their bedroom preferences are infesting children's cartoons.
It's nothing new for the series, an Arthur spin-off had a segment in 2005 about children with lesbian parents.
 

Riven326

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I don't care if it's well done (Ellie on TLOU dlc)
I care and i hate it when it's very bad done like bioware usually does (Kaidan not even ONCE hitting on Male Shepard for 2 games and suddently "hey Shepard I'm so gay now lets bang!! Did I told u I'm so gay now? Btw I'm gay now hellooooo!").
I was going to talk about that. That instance I think sums up my feelings on the subject. Existing characters that showed no hint of being gay or bisexual should not suddenly become that way just to amuse the player or score brownie points with game journalists.

It works the other way, too. But we never see gay characters turning straight for the player or any other reason. I believe that is something that should be discussed.
 

Airola

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So how would you feel if your favorite game has this happen to you?
If one feels something is happening to him when some fictional characters in a game turn into gay or trans, I'd say there's is a bigger problem going on within the viewer than in the product :D

EDIT:
and obviously surprise lesbian plot twist is always hot
 
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TheShadowLord

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Chekov would have made more sense.
I dunno about that. In the Final Frontier, he literally said to Sulu when they followed a female Klingon onboard the Enterprise that she has "wonderful muscles". I'm pretty sure he was into her.
 

infinitys_7th

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It's kind of goofy, but at the same time it results in more natural LGBT characters, because then they were literally just people the whole time and not "statements".

Compare Dumbledore to, oh, that one crewwoman in ME Andromeda who constantly talked about being trans. The latter is the issue with writing "LGBT characters" - the identity overwhelms the actual character. That's the issue with identity politics of any sort in real life - "I'm gay", "I'm white", "I'm Muslim" all overwhelm the real nuances people have and should respect in other people. Dumbledore was just a manipulative jackass good professor who was gay but probably more towards the asexual side and interested in advancing his goals over relationships. That is a genuinely realistic gay character, because being gay is just a small part of him.
 
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嫩翼

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It's kind of silly to get 'upset' about it IMO; like Matt, I don't think it's the right word.

I think we can agree profit is the ultimate goal with this nonsense. People will re-watch 'Arthur' to try and sniff Mr. Ratburn out. People these days (not even a majority, I'd argue) likely feel more compelled to purchase certain goods when people include specific groups in general. At the corporate business table, this is probably what everyone has in mind.

Why wouldn't they tell you these things as the shows were running, if it was already planned? Clearly, it's to capitalize on the political climate, which means lots of $$$.

I find myself not getting upset when thinking about these things from this angle. People want money, and they're willing to convince people to give it to them in whatever way makes it easy for them.
 

spandexmonkey

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It's cringey. In most stories I don't care of a character is straight unless it's important to the story (say a romance plot) so them being gay is equally irrelevant. If a character suddenly steps forward and declares their sexuality or the story stops to announce "hey we're being inclusive, look!" then I groan and walk away.
 
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Boss Mog

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I felt the Shaw-Root romance in Person of Interest wasn't really necessary. It felt somewhat pushed, but they didn't focus too much on it thankfully. I still watched and enjoyed the show.

Also Root was going after Shaw relentlessly and Shaw kept saying no, and not politely. If Root had been a guy going after a woman who clearly states she's not interested in him , he would be seen as a creep, harasser, but here because it's gay, it's all good and endearing, it's not harassment, it's flirting and Shaw will come around to it.
 
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SpartanN92

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Yes...I believe in traditional marriage and I don't want their agenda forced down my throat and I don't want my child exposed to it.
 

Fbh

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As long as the rest of the movie/show/game is still good I don't really care that much.

just find it eye rolling more than upsetting.


yes. Brooklyn 99 took a severe nosedive season 5 where Diaz all of a sudden comes out as bi, despite already having an openly gay police chief since the first episode.

Plus all the Peralta and Sandiago wedding lovey dovey crap was crap
Brooklyn 99 in general has taken a nosedive as of late
Loved the first few seasons but while it's still occasionally funny the humor isn't as good anymore and it feels like they often try to push a message to the point that it almost feel preachy at times
 
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CDiggity

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Creators can do whatever they want with their creations.

I think the part that upsets me are the creators who are very open about LGBT rights and representation and then proceed to do the absolute minimum. And the worst part is, there will be a crowd who will eat up these breadcrumbs and prop it up as important and groundbreaking which sends the message that all people need is lip service to be happy.
 

danielberg

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If a bit of thought went into it i have no issue but if it ends up that the "Silmarillion" of harry potter for example is rowlings twitter account/daily mood... then i just ignore that lol
 

Tygeezy

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Tom Clancy stuff has been hit hard by sjws. The sum of all fears has muslim terrorists in the books but was changed to neo nazi's so they could be pc. Also, the new Jack Ryan series they demoted Admiral Greer to not being and Admiral, and changed his faith so that he is now a Muslim when he use to be a Christian. I'm assuming they did this to throw sjw's a bone since the bad guys were Muslims and they painted it as it was the US and France that made them extremists. I remember Jack at one point yelling, it's not the faith!!! Or something along those lines. Yeah Jack, actually it is the faith that inspires them to do these things.
 
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Creators can do whatever they want with their creations.
They absolutely can, and I agree 100%. However, I hate it when people come in later and take over their creations, deciding to change fundamental character identities. Like, it's fine if JK Rowling wants to make Hermione black - whatever. I can think it is stupid, but it's her world. She's the boss. But then you have old properties where the original creative staff is gone (or intentionally kept away, like Ghostbusters or The Last Jedi), and the new stewards of these IPs start going, "you're gay, you're dead, you're gay and dead, you're black, you're a woman" and so on. Like, holy shit, keep Netflix away from EVERYTHING.
 

Paltheos

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I'm not the best person to ask about this because I don't have all my feelings sorted out, but yes this does bother me.
 

ssolitare

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Just curious, why is it flat out good instead of just being a thing or good in certain situations and pandering in others?

Only asking because it'd be interesting to see a take that's against the majourity here.
"It's good" meaning "it's fine".

Pandering vs good is just an opinion. We all want good characters, but you don't get that half the time anyway. It's okay to have shitty gay token characters, it's no different from a straight one. Really who cares. You get some good ones and some bad ones too. That's media.

It's a big deal to companies because they are trying to target demographics and gain new audiences taking advantages of rising purchasing powers that weren't there a decade ago...in order to make more money. But for the normal folk, the hard battles have been fought over representation, and now its time to just watch some media and enjoy it.
 
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Sub_Level

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Dumbledore is the only example I can think of this. Drawing a blank.
 

1.21Gigawatts

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Ohhh, only 85% homophobes who think that representation is "an ideology that being forced down their throats".

Really a forum to be proud of, @EviLore
 

kingbean

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The question is posed poorly. Clearly if it's for an agenda then it's not wanted, but if it's a part of the character and makes sense then there is no problem.
 

Breakage

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I don't follow new shows. The newer stuff I see on British television is often leftist propaganda dressed up as so-called entertainment.
I find conservative ideas in modern shows only make an appearance when they are the subject of ridicule.
 
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1.21Gigawatts

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Is this like one of those things where anyone that thinks a certain way is a Nazi?
Everyone who thinks like a Nazi is a Nazi.
Everyone who thinks like a homophobe is a homophobe.

The problem is usually that people don't know what Nazis actually think, or in other words, what Nazi ideology is.

And similarly homophobes don't consider their homophobia homophobic. They just want to keep their world where LGBTQ people and issue are invisible and everything naturally adheres to the heteronormative state of the world.


To the privileged, equality appears like oppression.

The privileged in this case are heterosexuals and equality is the acceptance of LGBTQ and the celebration of them as part of the norm.

This can also be done with racism.
The privileged in this case are the ethnic majority and equality is the proper representation and the acceptance as part of the norm of ethnic minorities.

In either case this equality means that the privileged lose influence and no longer are in the position of embodying the sole concept of the norm, which they perceive as losing rights/oppression.
But thats an issue with their perspective.

But more and more people realize that this perspective is off.
Then they either change their stance or double down.
Usually doubling down means, for example in the case of racism: "I'm a nationalist, I don't hate other ethnicities, I just don't want them around, they should stay where they belong."
Which is just as racist btw.