Hawking Radiation
Member
Sony absolutely needs a State Of Decay.
2 IP's from MS stable that I hope Sony try to emulate and that is State of Decay and Forza Horizon.
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Does Sony need more variety in their first party games? Can we do less skill trees.
- Thread starter Ghost of Caelid
- Start date
2 IP's from MS stable that I hope Sony try to emulate and that is State of Decay and Forza Horizon.
AmuroChan
Member
That's as high of an attach rate as their 1st party games are going to get. Historically that's always been the case since the PS1.
kyliethicc
Member
Issue with that is it could piss off Kaz / devalue or change the reputation of the GT IP.
Your idea is correct. But it should just be a new IP. Like Motorstorm / Driveclub.
Sleepwalker
Member
Some people really get defensive over a simple question huh?
The well being of Sony doesn't depend on this forum, neither does its market share. Is it that hard to entertain a theoretical question? Isn't that what this place is for? to discuss stuff?
Back on topic, yeah I would like Sony to give it a fair shot at a FPS like killzone or resistance. I feel like they've narrowed down their genre/niche a little bit too much for my liking, back in the previous 2 generations (PS3 PS2) they delved into other genres and I would like that sony back. It's understandable why they don't, but it would be cool for them to take some more risks, specially considering that they dominate the market. But sure, some people will defend anything they do so they will most likely coast with very good but safe games more often than not.
The well being of Sony doesn't depend on this forum, neither does its market share. Is it that hard to entertain a theoretical question? Isn't that what this place is for? to discuss stuff?
Back on topic, yeah I would like Sony to give it a fair shot at a FPS like killzone or resistance. I feel like they've narrowed down their genre/niche a little bit too much for my liking, back in the previous 2 generations (PS3 PS2) they delved into other genres and I would like that sony back. It's understandable why they don't, but it would be cool for them to take some more risks, specially considering that they dominate the market. But sure, some people will defend anything they do so they will most likely coast with very good but safe games more often than not.
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Oddvintagechap
Member
Ignore every Vr game published. Ignore ….
I didnt know these were all the same genre or had skill trees.
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Kagey K
Banned
Yet somehow here in this bubble people try to make it like they have a 90% attach rate, and the only reason why consoles sell.
Kagey K
Banned
Did the person I replied to mention any of those games?Ignore every Vr game published. Ignore ….
I didnt know these were all the same genre or had skill trees.
Does it actually matter when it's around 5 million sold?
Does Xbox have RPG?… umm fucking Bethesda
Biggest action adventure?… ugh Hellblade, Gears 5??
Allnamestakenlol
Member
Nah, I love skill trees. Fucking LOVE them.
itsjustJEFF
Member
Most games these days are an amalgamation of several different genres. If you're calling out PS for not having all these other genres you pretty much have to call out every single major publisher... really, you could.
What would you have in place of a "skill-tree"... aren't all forms of skill progression a skill-tree?!? Like for real... you kill/beat an enemy you get exp, that exp is used to get new abilities.
I'm trying to wonder what it is about skill-trees... is the UX/UI of the PS skill-trees? Are they too similar in UI design? Or is it the name that's an issue? how about we call it a skill-rocket or maybe a skill-pole?
What would you have in place of a "skill-tree"... aren't all forms of skill progression a skill-tree?!? Like for real... you kill/beat an enemy you get exp, that exp is used to get new abilities.
I'm trying to wonder what it is about skill-trees... is the UX/UI of the PS skill-trees? Are they too similar in UI design? Or is it the name that's an issue? how about we call it a skill-rocket or maybe a skill-pole?
supernova8
Banned
Not quite answering the question directly but the reason there is less variety is that there are fewer third parties doing platform exclusives now. The two main consoles are similar enough in architecture and both sell well enough for it to be worth it to sell on both. Back in the days of PS1/PS2 you had loads of developers just skipping other platforms entirely and only going on Playstation.
Kagey K
Banned
I don't think that's true.
Look at EA output.
UBI
Microsoft
ThQ
They release a wide variety of games across almost all genres.
In fact it's only the more narrow publishers that seem to only release a few games across narrow genres.
Magnific0giganticus
Banned
They have the IPs, but no exclusives yet, the old games are all multiplats (Bethesda). Wake me up when they finally deliver an exclusive.
TheGodfather07
Member
no. stick to what your good at. its like asking nintendo for a multiplayer first person shooter. its just not their thing and isnt necessary. if your making good games, than your set. sony and nintendo have a formula that works and they stick to.
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MrJTeera
Member
Hell to the Yes! I am tired of skill trees. Why can’t we just have all the abilities from the get go, and let us figure out how to use it from exploring the game world?
It’s like they’re too afraid of people complaining there’s no “player progression”, so they put them in a dummy list form that can be numerically judged.
People grow by experience, not experience points!
It’s like they’re too afraid of people complaining there’s no “player progression”, so they put them in a dummy list form that can be numerically judged.
People grow by experience, not experience points!
Kagey K
Banned
Didn't they do that with Splatoon and found big success from it?
Or should they have just kept releasing Mario and Donkey Kong?
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Kagey K
Banned
Sleepwalker
Member
I absolutely HATE them
Why tho? Nintendo never really made shooting games, they decided to give it a go and ended up with Splatoon which is now a big IP for them.
I'm more burnt out on over the shoulder 'cinematic' 3rd person games than skill trees. Skill trees are a pretty standard way of implementing progression and easing in more complex controls while giving player agency/choice. They're not the problem imo.
Third person games are fine but there's a lot more you can do with a camera than over the shoulder
Third person games are fine but there's a lot more you can do with a camera than over the shoulder
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Oddvintagechap
Member
I mentioned them. The idea that Sony doesnt have a diverse line up of games is border line crazy. Just because a group of people think Spiderman, GOW, TLoU, and Horizon are third person and have skill trees. Those are just the most popular games. Because of those reasons. At a time those games were considered a complete waste of time by publishers. The market demanded 1st person and multiplayer. Those games are the reason Sony are where they are.
And still Sony has funded games like Dreams (Littlebigplanet, Tearaway), Destruction All-Stars, Returnal(Resogun), Astro‘s Playroom, and more over the year and a half. Sony doesnt have to publish every genre. Or have to abandon the games that are popular to their fan base.
Its not like Sony releases Spiderman, GOW, TLoU, and Horizon. Insomniac doesnt just make spiderman, is working on a Rachet game. Santa Monica is working on a new IP, it took Santa Monica to release two GOW games 10 years. Naughty is working on their first multiplayer only game, and Guerilla has Rainbow Six Seige’s game director working on a multiplayer game. Guerilla released Killzone before Horizon(and will release a shooter right after the Horizon 2).
Of course games that sell more will have their sequels prioritized.
ZehDon
Gold Member
The homogenisation of Sony's first party output is certainly something I noticed towards the end of last gen. Most of their big developers took a step towards cinematic third person action adventure games with open-world / RPG elements. Some more so than others. So, there's outliers of course, but those specific "Sony formula" titles are front and centre of Sony's brand and marketing - skill trees or not. It's what they're pushing, relying on third parties to fill in the gaps in their roster. Coming from the PS1 and PS2 days, it feels like a big step down for me; I loved the crazy varied approach to their earlier consoles. With that said, their work in the VR space - as others have noted - is where they're experimenting wonderfully, and there's a reason I actually own more PSVR titles than flat PS4 titles. Astro Bot Rescue Mission was the closest anyone has come to knocking Mario off his perch since Banjo Kazooie, and my personal favourite, Until Dawn Rush of Blood, is still absolutely terrific. A ghost train light gun game. Who else is making those?
With that said, I am personally disappointed by Sony's push for more cinematic third person action adventure games with open world / RPG elements at the expense of other genres. They have some very talented developers, and it's disappointing that we're stuck with them all making games in a similar vein for the foreseeable future rather than seeing them break out and do different or more innovative things. But, to each their own - they're all doing similar things for a reason: it sells, they're clearly good at it, and they have millions upon millions of fans who want more and more of it. It only makes sense.
For my money, Microsoft are set deliver a wonderfully varied set of titles; the best turned based tactics title this side of XCOM, a zen-like flight game, a funny and vibrant platformer, an open world arcade racer, a sci-fi FPS, a rock-solid RTS game - I really couldn't ask for more, so that's where I'll go. I don't think Sony are under any obligation to provide more or less variety in their titles - their only obligation is to produce quality stuff worthy of the price tag on the box. And, judging from their billions in profits every year, it's safe to say they're doing that and then some.
With that said, I am personally disappointed by Sony's push for more cinematic third person action adventure games with open world / RPG elements at the expense of other genres. They have some very talented developers, and it's disappointing that we're stuck with them all making games in a similar vein for the foreseeable future rather than seeing them break out and do different or more innovative things. But, to each their own - they're all doing similar things for a reason: it sells, they're clearly good at it, and they have millions upon millions of fans who want more and more of it. It only makes sense.
For my money, Microsoft are set deliver a wonderfully varied set of titles; the best turned based tactics title this side of XCOM, a zen-like flight game, a funny and vibrant platformer, an open world arcade racer, a sci-fi FPS, a rock-solid RTS game - I really couldn't ask for more, so that's where I'll go. I don't think Sony are under any obligation to provide more or less variety in their titles - their only obligation is to produce quality stuff worthy of the price tag on the box. And, judging from their billions in profits every year, it's safe to say they're doing that and then some.
Kagey K
Banned
Is less than 20% of buyers really the market demanding it?
Maybe if they had made better games in bigger genres they could have captured more market share, but who's to say? We can't really uncork that bottle.
They are on the road now, and while I agree they used to try some unorthodox things, that's not where they are headed going forward
Never got the Kena reviews (IGN) that complained about the lack of skill trees and combat skill progression. Game seems Zelda-like and no-one ever complains about lack of skill trees in Zelda. IMO the Sony games are different enough, skill trees or not. Most of them are great, some I'll probably pass up on for others. Next on my wishlist is Returnal (and a PS5)...
Magnific0giganticus
Banned
Yeah. They need to bring back Twisted Metal. I also wish they would give Warhawk a second chance, that's one of the most unique and fun multiplayer games I've ever played.
Kagey K
Banned
Those days are gone.
You all keep telling them you want more cinematic games, so they will keep making those.
Instead of SOCOM, MAG and Warhawk.
Instead of defending them all day, why not call them out to get what you actually want vs what you are getting?
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penguininthesun
Neo Member
I think it's a little weird to single out skill trees as an issue here (because it's more widespread than just Playstation), but the criticism of recent Playstation games being of a similar flavor is otherwise valid in my opinion. They definitely have the 3rd person, AAA formula down to an artform, and it's doing great things for their brand. So no, I don't think they need to change their strategy at the moment. As a fan however, I will admit that the experiences these titles offer—while still fun—can get a little Deja vu-ish at times. To be honest, they are mostly being carried by superior storytelling, and don't really offer anything that innovative in terms of gameplay imo (although, it's probably because I'm kind of shitty at games, and tend to take a stealth approach in everything I play). So as someone who mostly games on Playstation, would I like to see them explore other genres? Sure! Of course. Why not? It'd be interesting to see what Sony's studios can do creatively with a big budget platformer, or first person shooter, or tactical RPG, for example. Do I think they'll go down this path? I'm not so sure. There's a lot of risk in it for Sony. Why mess with something that's working great for their bottom line? They have found their niche, and have built a fanbase upon it. While I'm definitely interested in certain games that Xbox and Nintendo are putting out, there's not this great sense of FOMO because Sony doesn't have similar titles. Just like I don't sense a huge deal of FOMO coming from Xbox or Nintendo gamers towards what Sony has in its lineup. We all have different motivations behind our decisions to buy these plastic boxes. I didn't buy a Playstation expecting to play games like Halo and Mario Kart. I bought one because I was specifically interested in the narrative driven, big-budget games that Sony is known for. If and when their games are no longer fun for me to play, or I find the storytelling growing stale, I'll leave Playstation and look for something new. If that begins to happen en masse within the Playstation fanbase, then Sony will have a huge problem, and change will become imperative. While I don't expect Sony to screw up too badly any time soon, I certainly don't think they are incapable of it. They seem to be wanting to fuck around in the TV and film space recently, and if this becomes a new obsession for them, it could distract them from focusing on making high quality games. I don't think it's likely that this becomes an issue, but I'd keep an eye out for it nonetheless.
Oddvintagechap
Member
Spiderman, Horizon, GOW, TLoU, Uncharted have all sold 15 million untis plus. Returnal, Demon Souls, Sackboy, Dreams, Firewall.. have sold that combined, not even. Why would Sony divert from making the games that sell? It literally makes no sense. And again, its not as if they arent make other types of games. Like I have mentioned.
What publisher beats Sony in genres, I wanna know.
Let me knowwwww.
captainraincoat
Banned
Cough Cough....NintendoSpiderman, Horizon, GOW, TLoU, Uncharted have all sold 15 million untis plus. Returnal, Demon Souls, Sackboy, Dreams, Firewall.. have sold that combined, not even. Why would Sony divert from making the games that sell? It literally makes no sense. And again, its not as if they arent make other types of games. Like I have mentioned.
What publisher beats Sony in genres, I wanna know.
Let me knowwwww.
Allnamestakenlol
Member
That's okay, I love them enough for the both of us.I absolutely HATE them
PropellerEar
Member
Holy fuck what a shit thread.
Xbox dudes complaining about games they don't play.
--> Ignored.
Xbox dudes complaining about games they don't play.
--> Ignored.
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Oddvintagechap
Member
Nope.
Nico_D
Member
To be honest, I think too many developers add a skilll tree and light rpg systems to "richen" their games. Something like Spiderman wouldn't even need it and it doesn't make sense why he can't do these things from the start.
If you want the MC learn new abilities in a non-rpg game, I rather they wrote it as part of the story. Like fighting Electro gives him an idea for an insulated suit.
If you want the MC learn new abilities in a non-rpg game, I rather they wrote it as part of the story. Like fighting Electro gives him an idea for an insulated suit.
bitbydeath
Member
I gather we're talking titles that are native to current-gen right?
Shooters (1st/Third) - Deviation, Firewalk, Guerilla
2D Platformers - Nope, they do have Sackboy and Astrobot (3D platformer)
Fighting Games - Guilty Gear Strive
RPG - Final Fantasy 7 Remake Integrade
RTS - Nope, these mainly stick to PC
Sandbox - Tons, OP is about this
Survival - Abandoned ;-)
Now do Xbox Series X games, no BC.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
The simple answer is, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Sony have found what works for them and the market are reacting by high reviews and great sales. It doesn’t need to change until it does.
the wider audience of gaming seems to love these open world light skill tree based progressions systems with a heavy emphasis on story.
the wider audience of gaming seems to love these open world light skill tree based progressions systems with a heavy emphasis on story.
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
I wish it was only about skill trees...
Honestly their AAA games all seem and play as if they are the same game, following the same template everytime with just a different skin on top of it.
Basically Sony games are like Marvel movies, you've seen one, you've seen them all. Or if you're a foodie they're like chips, different packagings but all taste the same.
Mind, they're all well done and properly crafted but... highly derivative and bland regardless. I can't seem to remember a single PS Studios game that stick with me longer than just the hours it needed to be completed.
Honestly their AAA games all seem and play as if they are the same game, following the same template everytime with just a different skin on top of it.
Basically Sony games are like Marvel movies, you've seen one, you've seen them all. Or if you're a foodie they're like chips, different packagings but all taste the same.
Mind, they're all well done and properly crafted but... highly derivative and bland regardless. I can't seem to remember a single PS Studios game that stick with me longer than just the hours it needed to be completed.
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modiz
Member
It is in their DNA now. They looked at what other successful games did good and doubled down on it.I know people will see this as FUD but I was listening to a podcast on Sony’s up coming games that we know of and as people stated before they all seem to have a similar back bone.
Spider-Man = Third person action adventure with light RPG elements (Skill tree)
GOW = Third person action adventure with light RPG elements
Horizion = TPAAwLRPGE
Wolverine = not much info but we can assume unless it’ll be a full rpg in the isometric view
Naughty Dog also has a similar DNA to their games. As my favorite studio I feel they mastered the formula the best tho.
As someone who games on all consoles (XsX, PS5 and switch) I’m not too bothered by it since my PS5 is my exclusive box but do you think Sony should add a bit of diversity to their game line up from a genre perspective? Would you like to see them fund a large budget Crpg or an isometric strategy game? Maybe dive into more untraditional genres. I know from a business perspective if it ain’t broke…but what about from a non mainstream fan perspective. What would y’all like to see, or just stick to what they’ve been doing?
At the least I’d like to see them do less skill trees and maybe do a game that is either a full RPG. The quality of their studios doing a full on RPG sounds like a good ass time to me.
A perfect formula for shelling out games.
93xfan
Banned
Twisted Metal 1 got me to buy a PS1.
If they bring back a MP game, I’d take Socom. Still pissed they haven’t remastered Socom 2 online.
Little Chicken
Member
The main reason I wasn't impressed with the recent showcase is that it was just more of the same. Felt like the showcase could've been from 2017 and I wouldn't notice.
And unless it's an RPG I hate skill trees.
And unless it's an RPG I hate skill trees.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
We‘re living the Age of Skill Trees, OP. Doesn’t matter if it’s Sony or whoever else. Skill trees are a simple way to add “depth” to a game without resorting to mandatory skills gained from boss battles and/or a Metroidvania structure. They give you an illusion of character growth that is satisfactory enough some people won’t notice how gimped the MC is at the start. They give you an illusion of choice that goes well with the open world or semi-open world structure. It‘s not that different from Samus losing her stuff every time a new game starts, except it’s tied to Exp gotten through menial tasks and doesn’t lock you into the same upgrade sequence every time. It’s perfect for the kind of AAA adventure that’s so hot right now.
Survival? Siren
Fighting games? Playstation all stars battle.
2D platforms? Little big Planet
RPG? Horizon (if Horizon its not RPG, Witcher 3 is not too)
Shooters? Killzone and Resistance
worldwithpyramids
Member
For me personally, yes. It seems like the majority of PlayStation users are happy with Sony’s AAA games though.
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GymWolf
Member
No they don't.
Buy the 99% of the other games in the market if you want other genres, i love high budget action rpg open world with skill trees and they make some of the best.
Do nintendo need to start making realistic game or violent games or tps\fps or any other genre that lack in their console?
Hell no, they do their thing and sony does the same.
Buy the 99% of the other games in the market if you want other genres, i love high budget action rpg open world with skill trees and they make some of the best.
Do nintendo need to start making realistic game or violent games or tps\fps or any other genre that lack in their console?
Hell no, they do their thing and sony does the same.