Donkey Kong Country Returns |OT| Retro Studios Has Done It Again!

KevinCow said:
You don't even need to get the jiggies. They just unlock artwork. Just get all the KONGs and beat the K level.
Haha... "jiggies".

By the way, the virtual uselessness of the jigsaw pieces is another significant flaw in my mind. One of the best aspects of the DKC series in my mind was searching for those bonus rooms so that I could unlock more levels and properly complete the game. Now, though, they're basically pointless. This is kind of a good thing because a lot of the pieces are hidden in really uninteresting ways anyhow.

And that brings me to another flaw: the bonus games fucking suck. Not to suggest that the SNES games set the world afire with their bonus games, but at least there was more diversity. They feel like an afterthought here.

Thankfully the level design is pretty great so none of this affects the overall game much.
 
Green Mamba said:
This is probably my least favorite thing about this game. Pretty much turned me off completely from time trials.

It didn't turned me off from time trials ... but sure took away the idea that i would be doing 100% (or whatever 300%, 500% ... these dk games always bug my brain with those % stuff =P) alone xD
;;;specialy because i probably don't have the skill to do most shiny medals anyway xD
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Socreges said:
By the way, the virtual uselessness of the jigsaw pieces is another significant flaw in my mind. One of the best aspects of the DKC series in my mind was searching for those bonus rooms so that I could unlock more levels and properly complete the game. Now, though, they're basically pointless. This is kind of a good thing because a lot of the pieces are hidden in really uninteresting ways anyhow.
The original DKC had absolutely no point to the bouns worlds, and while the jigsaw parts dont unlock any extra levels, they do unlock artwork and media. Its more 'pointless', I guess, than the bonus coins in DKC2 and 3 unlocking additional levels, buts I dont think its all that bad.
 
EatChildren said:
The original DKC had absolutely no point to the bouns worlds, and while the jigsaw parts dont unlock any extra levels, they do unlock artwork and media. Its more 'pointless', I guess, than the bonus coins in DKC2 and 3 unlocking additional levels, buts I dont think its all that bad.
I did say "in my mind". If unlocking artwork gets your rocks off, more power to you. For me, it's a disappointment since reward is intimately linked with purpose. If the reward is external to the game itself, I see little purpose. If there's no purpose, it's not nearly as interesting.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Socreges said:
I did say "in my mind". If unlocking artwork gets your rocks off, more power to you. For me, it's a disappointment since reward is intimately linked with purpose. If the reward is external to the game itself, I see little purpose. If there's no purpose, it's not nearly as interesting.
I know, which is why I mentioned the original DKC, which was basically exactly the same minus the art galleries.

Not criticising your opinion or anything, as I really dug the way DKC2 and DKC3 handled the DK coins and bonus coins, just saying I quite like the art galleries and what not.
 
EatChildren said:
I know, which is why I mentioned the original DKC, which was basically exactly the same minus the art galleries.
Yes. And that was bad. I should have mentioned that DKC was an exception, but I thought we could just move on from that. ;)

EatChildren said:
Not criticising your opinion or anything, as I really dug the way DKC2 and DKC3 handled the DK coins and bonus coins, just saying I quite like the art galleries and what not.
Fair enough.
 
Incidentally, all of the bonus rooms are done in back-to-the-basics, DKC style collect all the bananas challenges. There's even less diversity than in the DKC levels. And say what you want, but I loved those bonus stages with the animal buddies. Yeah, all you got in reward was extra lives, but that's a useful reward. No different than buying life balloons from Cranky in DKCR.
 
Sgt.Pepper said:
That's heresy. Play it with the drums.
I have the GameCube version of Jungle Beat, I think the Wii controls are way too sensitive and ruin the game as a result.

As for DKCR, you know, it's funny, I have both the B button=roll and and Classic Controller modes boot when I play DKCR, but I don't necessarily always use them. I actually like playing with the Nunchuk, but having the option of switching to any control method I want whenever I want is the awesome thing. So yeah, I like changing it up every so often and actually still play with motion controls sometimes even though I don't have to.
 
Killa Sasa said:
Does the Stickerbrush Symphony song make a return in this game?

I just picked this up today, can't wait to give it a run :D
I haven't finished the game yet (on world 5 right now), but so far there are only tracks from the first game.
 

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
What I find disappointing about the art unlocks is that they don't give you a full screen version of the piece, or the option to zoom in. iirc in the Prime games Retro always did both. The given frame is a bit small.
 
Wow, I can't believe how much I'm loving this game (only started playing yesterday and finished the first world). I was never a big fan of DKC, I only played the first and never got the hype about it, there are so many more better platformers on the SNES than DKC. It always seemed very middle of the road to me. Not so with DKCR, the leveldesign is superb, it oozes personality (unlike DKC and its terrible artstyle. It's what ruined Super Mario RPG too), there's so much to see and the little animation touches are pure genius. I do hate the forced waggle and I would have loved classic controller support, so that I could whip out my SNES pad and play it oldskool, but it's a minor downside.

Not liking the music much so far though, that's another aspect of the original game that I never really liked and they seem to be mostly remixed songs from the first game.

The difficulty seems just right too, not frustratingly difficuly, but you will die several times. I might even get DKC 2 and 3 now to see if those are better than the first game.
 
Why isn't DK64 on the VC? I have a hunger to play it again after this but I'm too lazy to get my N64 all the way from the attic. Why won't you take my money Nintendo?

(I assume the VC can emulate the expansion pack so that can't be it, right?)
 
I played up to the end of world 2 last night.

Some thoughts...

I hate the Jet Pack jump..it completely screws up my momentum when I am trying to jump from one enemy to another. I tend to hold the jump button down to long and instead of bouncing forward or up high the jet pack basically freezes me in place. It sucks. Why they didn't make it a double jump instead is beyond me.

Waggle to roll sucks so much, especially since the only other way to attack an enemy is to jump. It also ruins my momentum while trying to run through a stage.

Other then that...I like the game...it just doesn't "feel" like the other games in the series..maybe because I never played as DK in the other games. I really miss that cartwheel.
 
rhino4evr said:
I hate the Jet Pack jump..it completely screws up my momentum when I am trying to jump from one enemy to another. I tend to hold the jump button down to long and instead of bouncing forward or up high the jet pack basically freezes me in place. It sucks. Why they didn't make it a double jump instead is beyond me.
I haven't seen this mentioned much, but I have to agree with it. Having jump and hover mapped to the same button seems like the logical thing to do, but it doesn't work out so well when you also have to hold the jump button before you bounce on an enemy to get extra height. It should've been mapped to the same button the roll should've been mapped to.
 
Agreed. Dixie's glide was mapped to the run/roll button and it worked smoothly. The unintentional jet pack jump has messed me up many times. There are certain issues in the game that Retro will hopefully address in the sequels.
 
The jetpack is fine.

I don't think Retro needs to do anything differently control wise except maybe shut everyone up by giving them button presses alternatives again.

I like the controls better in this game than the old series easily.

The bonus levels tell me the controls are spot on.
 
agrajag said:
Agreed. Dixie's glide was mapped to the run/roll button and it worked smoothly. The unintentional jet pack jump has messed me up many times. There are certain issues in the game that Retro will hopefully address in the sequels.
The wiimote trigger button could have been, grab/roll/glide/run button just like the old DKC games.
 
TheGreatMightyPoo said:
The jetpack is fine.

I don't think Retro needs to do anything differently control wise except maybe shut everyone up by giving them button presses alternatives again.

I like the controls better in this game than the old series easily.

The bonus levels tell me the controls are spot on.
You know, it's great that the controls work fine for you and all, but when people all over the world play the same game and independently conclude that it has the same handful of issues, then maybe - just maybe - the people who are fine with it are in the minority and it is an issue that should be looked into if a sequel is made.

But no, you're absolutely right TheGreatMightyPoo, everyone else is broken and the game is perfect.
 

Lathentar

Looking for Pants
KAL2006 said:
The wiimote trigger button could have been, grab/roll/glide/run button just like the old DKC games.
How would you hold a barrel and jump around with Diddy on your back? That would activate the jetpack.

It worked with Dixie because she picked up barrels with her hair.
 
KevinCow said:
You know, it's great that the controls work fine for you and all, but when people all over the world play the same game and independently conclude that it has the same handful of issues, then maybe - just maybe - the people who are fine with it are in the minority and it is an issue that should be looked into if a sequel is made.

But no, you're absolutely right TheGreatMightyPoo, everyone else is broken and the game is perfect.
Calm down.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that's what I'm giving, an unbiased one.

Every game has issues if you dwell and look for them and pick them apart, I play games until something interferes with my fun or ability to play them.

Then I think about what the developers could have done better.

None of the controls have hampered my fun or technique really at all unless you count the time trials and then maybe I could see people having issues(though with Diddy, it works great, too bad you don't have him all the while).

These developers didn't come up with the schemes overnight, easy to play message board quarterback.

I GET that many find the rolling unideal.

I believe they are sincere in that.

I personally don't think it's an issue much at all and if they fix it for those whose experience is ruined from it, good for them.

I wouldn't say it's guaranteed they will though and it's less guaranteed they fix this new "broken" jetpack jump.

People just exaggerate on here a lot, the game controls better than any platformer I have played this generation.

That's my honest opinion, I didn't call anyone assholes for having theirs.

I hope they spend the time on the sequel adding much more vital things like more playable characters and even crazier layouts.

Not on things like better bonus levels.

But that's me.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Personally, I think the control configuration is the best compromise so as not to spread too many things around random buttons, but it's true that there's an inherent contradiction in the nature of the game: putting jet pack on the jump button feels natural because... it's the jump button. Countless 2D and 3D platform games have mapped a floating, gliding, or boosting mechanic to "double jump" and it works best.

However, DKC also requires high jumps off enemy and obstacle bounces, which /also/ feels most natural on the jump button.

When you have the jetpack, the "correct" way to do a bounce jump is to hit the jump button just as you contact the enemy/object. Doing it too early seems to be what most people get screwed up over (and a few, too late). I had that problem for the first few jumps. For me, didn't matter after that as I figured out their solution to the problem. (I.e. the window in which you're supposed to hit jump to bounce.)

Edit: I should add that the reason why it wouldn't work to just have the jetpack kick in only at the apex of a jump - as with many double jumping implementations - is that you are supposed to be able to fire it at any point to save yourself from a short fall and for maneuverability. Again, an issue with the many actions theoretically suited to the jump button.

Again, as I said originally in the thread, there's no reason not to include CC support with some alternate button mappings for people who want to play the game differently. That's an absolutely valid criticism.

On the other hand, some people are making it out to be a game-killing problem, and also making it sound as if "OMG the controls are SO AWFUL worst designers EVAR!" (not just here, in many places) which is IMHO a complete overreaction. The design decisions Retro made with the control devices supported are the best configurations I can honestly imagine when stopping to consider the downsides of some of the suggestions people are making to "fix" the controls.
 
Kaijima said:
Personally, I think the control configuration is the best compromise so as not to spread too many things around random buttons, but it's true that there's an inherent contradiction in the nature of the game: putting jet pack on the jump button feels natural because... it's the jump button. Countless 2D and 3D platform games have mapped a floating, gliding, or boosting mechanic to "double jump" and it works best.

However, DKC also requires high jumps off enemy and obstacle bounces, which /also/ feels most natural on the jump button.

When you have the jetpack, the "correct" way to do a bounce jump is to hit the jump button just as you contact the enemy/object. Doing it too early seems to be what most people get screwed up over (and a few, too late). I had that problem for the first few jumps. For me, didn't matter after that as I figured out their solution to the problem. (I.e. the window in which you're supposed to hit jump to bounce.)

Again, as I said originally in the thread, there's no reason not to include CC support with some alternate button mappings for people who want to play the game differently. That's an absolutely valid criticism.

On the other hand, some people are making it out to be a game-killing problem, and also making it sound as if "OMG the controls are SO AWFUL worst designers EVAR!" (not just here, in many places) which is IMHO a complete overreaction. The design decisions Retro made with the control devices supported are the best configurations I can honestly imagine when stopping to consider the downsides of some of the suggestions people are making to "fix" the controls.
All of this, well said.
 
Emonga said:
Why isn't DK64 on the VC? I have a hunger to play it again after this but I'm too lazy to get my N64 all the way from the attic. Why won't you take my money Nintendo?

(I assume the VC can emulate the expansion pack so that can't be it, right?)
Probably something to do with RARE owning the assets to the game? Sort of the same reason Goldeneye isn't on VC. Also, yea, Majora's Mask used the expansion pack and that's on VC.
 
TheGreatMightyPoo said:
Calm down.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that's what I'm giving, an unbiased one.

Every game has issues if you dwell and look for them and pick them apart, I play games until something interferes with my fun or ability to play them.

Then I think about what the developers could have done better.

None of the controls have hampered my fun or technique really at all unless you count the time trials and then maybe I could see people having issues(though with Diddy, it works great, too bad you don't have him all the while).

These developers didn't come up with the schemes overnight, easy to play message board quarterback.

I GET that many find the rolling unideal.

I believe they are sincere in that.

I personally don't think it's an issue much at all and if they fix it for those whose experience is ruined from it, good for them.

I wouldn't say it's guaranteed they will though and it's less guaranteed they fix this new "broken" jetpack jump.

People just exaggerate on here a lot, the game controls better than any platformer I have played this generation.

That's my honest opinion, I didn't call anyone assholes for having theirs.

I hope they spend the time on the sequel adding much more vital things like more playable characters and even crazier layouts.

Not on things like better bonus levels.

But that's me.
I wouldn't go anywhere near saying it controls better then any other platformer..not thinking too hard about it, I had absolutely no problems controlling Mario in NSMB or Galaxy 2.

I've played the DKC trilogy to perfection..and consider myself a pretty hardcore fan. I suppose I will have to get used to the new controls, but in NO way would I say they are superior to the original controls.

I'm not going to even bother with the speed trials in this game, will save myself the frustrations
 
rhino4evr said:
I wouldn't go anywhere near saying it controls better then any other platformer..not thinking too hard about it, I had absolutely no problems controlling Mario in NSMB or Galaxy 2.

I've played the DKC trilogy to perfection..and consider myself a pretty hardcore fan. I suppose I will have to get used to the new controls, but in NO way would I say they are superior to the original controls.
I like the controls better than the games you mentioned and a lot of it has to do with the weight of the characters(though I have not played as Diddy in co-op so I don't know how he controls).

Nothing wrong with the controls in those games but they weren't as tight for me.

I'd have to go play Donkey Kong Country 2 again to really know but the controls in this game feel better to me and the environment around feels much better(like the things you bounce off of and whatnot) along with much better hit collision.

I can do the bonus levels with ease now almost everytime though they took me a while to get right:lol
 
Kaijima said:
The design decisions Retro made with the control devices supported are the best configurations I can honestly imagine when stopping to consider the downsides of some of the suggestions people are making to "fix" the controls.
The only way this would be the case is if Nintendo insisted that the game absolutely MUST use the sideways Wiimote as the default configuration. With the Nunchuk configuration, you needlessly have Z and B doing the exact same thing. Both of these issues could've easily been solved by making B roll and hover.
 
KevinCow said:
The only way this would be the case is if Nintendo insisted that the game absolutely MUST use the sideways Wiimote as the default configuration. With the Nunchuk configuration, you needlessly have Z and B doing the exact same thing. Both of these issues could've easily been solved by making B roll and hover.
Wouldn't you just hover over ditches you meant to rolljump over?
 
ShockingAlberto said:
Wouldn't you just hover over ditches you meant to rolljump over?
You roll if you press it while on the ground. You hover if you press it while in the air. Is that really so complex? Go play DKC2 or 3 as Dixie for a while if you're not convinced it would work, because that's exactly how they did it. Not to mention the two or three other functions they stuck on that button without issue.
 
This thread is massive and I did a quick google search, so sorry if this was already mentioned but I read about this on another forum and thought it was too awesome to not share:
Tie worn by monkey ruins in 3-2:

(sorry for the crappy phone pic)
Tie worn by Billy Mitchell:
 
Lijik said:
This thread is massive and I did a quick google search, so sorry if this was already mentioned but I read about this on another forum and thought it was too awesome to not share:
Tie worn by monkey ruins in 3-2:

(sorry for the crappy phone pic)
Tie worn by Billy Mitchell:
:0

DK loves his nanas slathered in Rickey's hawt sauce. :lol
 
I just beat the golden temple in Mirror Mode and that didn't unlock the last locked images in the gallery, do I have to beat all the stages in Mirror Mode? or get a gold medal in the Golden Temple?


also, did anyone else notice Crocomire's skull in Foggy Fumes?
 
Lathentar said:
How would you hold a barrel and jump around with Diddy on your back? That would activate the jetpack.

It worked with Dixie because she picked up barrels with her hair.
They could give DK his arms helicopter move from Smash Bros. The SSB version of DK is actually Donkey and Dixie combined, hence why they probably cut Dixie from Brawl (along with Plusle/Minun and Toon Zelda, IIRC).
 

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
..pakbeka.. said:
I just beat the golden temple in Mirror Mode and that didn't unlock the last locked images in the gallery, do I have to beat all the stages in Mirror Mode? or get a gold medal in the Golden Temple?


also, did anyone else notice Crocomire's skull in Foggy Fumes?
You have to get 200%, which means beating every single stage in mirror mode. I unlocked MM a while ago and I don't see myself doing that. Normal stages ok, but I can see some of the bosses (like mole train) being a total pain in the ass on that mode.

you can see some crappy quality pics of the art here
 
eXistor said:
Wow, I can't believe how much I'm loving this game (only started playing yesterday and finished the first world). I was never a big fan of DKC, I only played the first and never got the hype about it, there are so many more better platformers on the SNES than DKC. It always seemed very middle of the road to me. Not so with DKCR, the leveldesign is superb, it oozes personality (unlike DKC and its terrible artstyle. It's what ruined Super Mario RPG too), there's so much to see and the little animation touches are pure genius. I do hate the forced waggle and I would have loved classic controller support, so that I could whip out my SNES pad and play it oldskool, but it's a minor downside.

Not liking the music much so far though, that's another aspect of the original game that I never really liked and they seem to be mostly remixed songs from the first game.

The difficulty seems just right too, not frustratingly difficuly, but you will die several times. I might even get DKC 2 and 3 now to see if those are better than the first game.
DKC2 is the pinnacle of the series, probably the hardest too.

3 is pretty good...but it feels a little off. 2 > Returns > 1 > 3.
 
I really want to play co-op only to control Diddy. I always used him in DKC1-3. Loved how fast he was and the way he jumped.

this game is so imaginative.. some of the shit that goes on in the background of levels is insane.
 
epmode said:
This should do it:

C24A3FC0 00000020
38210050 7C0802A6
80B50060 48000041
80950000 7CA52378
90B50000 80B50064
4800002D 80950004
7CA52378 90B50004
80B50068 48000019
80950008 7CA52378
90B50008 7C0803A6
4E800020 70A40020
2C040000 4182000C
38C0012D B0D50186
38C00000 70A40800
2C040000 41820008
60C68000 70A40040
2C040000 41820008
60C60200 70A40010
2C040000 41820008
60C60100 70A40001
2C040000 41820008
60C60002 70A40002
2C040000 41820008
60C60008 70A48000
2C040000 41820008
60C60004 70A44000
2C040000 41820008
60C60001 70A40400
2C040000 41820008
60C60010 70A41000
2C040000 41820008
60C61000 7CC53378
60000000 00000000
04387CF0 38A00000
0438526C 28000009

For anyone trying to make their own config, there are three imporant lines. The line starting with 4E800020 is for waggle, the line starting with 60C68000 is for button 1 and the line starting with 60C60200 is for button 2.

The second portion of each of those lines is the hex code for the classic controller mapping. I know the following codes from looking at the forum I linked earlier:

R = 70A40200
Y = 70A40020
B = 70A40040
A = 70A40010

(if you get that message about an unsupported controller, please see my original post for editing the code to correct the problem)
i just tried this, version 1 and 2
and i get unsupported controller for both

can anyone confirm if this works or not

(the layout is a=2,b=1, y=waggle)