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Dragon Age Spell combos: grease + fireball = grease fire. TOOLSET confirmed.
- Thread starter El_Victor
- Start date
Chris Remo
Member
The amount of BG2 love in this thread is making me want to check it out. I wonder if it's available through some straightforward legitimate means.
BrokenSymmetry
Member
Timber said:
I loved KOTOR, I loved Jade Empire (really!), and I loved Mass Effect, but I never could get into Baldur's Gate. The D&D rules are probably to blame for this, because when I started as a mage, I coudn't believe that I could only cast a single spell in a day.
gregor7777
Banned
Timber said:
Fuck...sorry for wasting everyone's time then. I thought Mass Effect and NWN were pretty good.
/sulks
NewLib said:
KotOR still has the best atmosphere. People just didnt like the simplified gameplay.
People thinking that this being PC only will automatically bring Bioware back up to BG II standards are mistaken though. Only they themselves can make the choice to go for more length and complexity.
And hey, maybe they wont
Teknopathetic
Member
"The amount of BG2 love in this thread is making me want to check it out. I wonder if it's available through some straightforward legitimate means."
You...you haven't played BG2?
Oh my.
You...you haven't played BG2?
Oh my.
Sure, but going PC only (still not confirmed by the way) would certainly make the decision to return some complexities easier.HK-47 said:
Regarding the earlier question about BG1 mods: this thread has inspired me to make a BG Trilogy replaying thread, where I'll list all the nice stuff and give some directions. Should be done later today or tomorrow.
Desi said:
Okay here is where I throw down the gauntlets. BG2 gameplay and atmosphere top notch. KOTOR has better characters. Irenicus is a better villain than Malak, but your party members in KOTOR are better. Yes, Carth sucks but so does Aerie, Anomen, Valygar, and Nalia. KOTOR story is also better.
Also, Baldur's Gate II isnt perfect for the sheer fact I have to use a mod because Chateau Irenicus is easily the worst part of the game and its unavoidable right from the start.
Lonesome_Raod
Member
I have loved every single Bioware game. They are up there with Bethesda and the rest of the game making gods. Shame I won't have a pc to play this game though. Be the first Bioware game I miss out on.
Minsc
Gold Member
Chris Remo said:
Too bad Forgotten Realms Deluxe Edition is out of stock, you can order it second hand off amazon uk though. It includes all of Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 & Icewind Dale 1 & 2, along with all of Neverwinter Nights 1 (which really isn't nearly as good, and probably should be ignored). Comes in a nice big box too!
Like mentioned above, there are plenty of other sets with the Baldur's Gate games in them, just search around, it's not too hard to find.
Teknopathetic
Member
"Okay here is where I throw down the gauntlets. BG2 gameplay and atmosphere top notch. KOTOR has better characters. Irenicus is a better villain than Malak, but your party members in KOTOR are better. Yes, Carth sucks but so does Aerie, Anomen, Valygar, and Nalia. KOTOR story is also better."
There isn't a single memorable KOTOR character besides HK47. BG2 has Minsc, Viconia, Jan, Edwin, and Korgan. Mazzie's even a better character than the KOTOR cast.
There isn't a single memorable KOTOR character besides HK47. BG2 has Minsc, Viconia, Jan, Edwin, and Korgan. Mazzie's even a better character than the KOTOR cast.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
I don't know why so many people hated the beginning dungeon in BG2--I really enjoyed it. It was like a microcosm of the whole game, with some combat, puzzles, cool conversations/riddles, exploration, story, and character development. For an introduction to a game as huge as BG2, isn't that a good approach?NewLib said:
Prime crotch
Banned
Yeah but when you restart the game for your nth time it can get very, very annoying.Chairman Yang said:
Fragamemnon
Member
NewLib said:
KOTOR is a good game. I liked playing it. I liked the Obsidian sequel even more though!
I think the problem is that the long-term Bioware fans KNOW that Bioware is up to task of making a game with some serious meat to its gameplay (and by that, I mean things like deep character customization and itemization as well as tactical combat with lots of different choices to make) but they've mostly punted on doing so ever since that game.
Mass Defect is the poster child for this, the combat is made for the console fps plebes, character customization and abilities are lmost completely meaningless, and the itemization is perhaps the worst I have ever seen in recent memory from any major RPG.
In contrast, when playing BG2 we'd deal with things like well-timed short duration buffs, setting traps, item swaps to stack saving throws, spell sequences, spell penetration values, crowd control, sneak attack positioning, friend fire from area damage, timing cone effects properly, instant death spells, and even crazy shit like time stop-and-pop sequencer unloading. We'd have talking swords, items with five or six modifiers, class and racial specific items, and we'd spend long periods min-maxing our gear for successs. And it was awesome.
It's those kind of things that I think a lot of people are looking to Dragon Age for. We'd like the wonderfully written Bioware storyline, but we'd also like some real substance under the hood as well.
Chris Remo
Member
Honestly, it was always hard for me to get into that style of gameplay, and there's nothing inherently appealing about the setting for me. I've played hardly anything from the genre. I'm happy to give it another shot, though. I'm ordering BG2 from Amazon today.Teknopathetic said:
firehawk12
Subete no aware
My problem is that all the post BG2 games have crappy endings, as brought up earlier. It figures that their best ending was cut from the game.
Ah, here it is. KoTOR cut DSF ending:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnek4GxFeds
It's still infinitely more satisfying that the ME non-endings or the JE "flash card" endings.
Ah, here it is. KoTOR cut DSF ending:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnek4GxFeds
It's still infinitely more satisfying that the ME non-endings or the JE "flash card" endings.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
I tend to agree...but if you don't like the setting...do yourself a favor and play planescape torment if you haven't. It was great for me because it's not the typical dungeons and dragons setting. It's absolutely one of the most incredible games I've ever played, and I barely even know how D&D works.Chris Remo said:
Teknopathetic said:
Don't forget the minsc's miniature giant space hamster.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
Indeed.clutha said:
Shame to say I never beat BG1 or 2....need to do that. Gotta find the discs first though =/
Baldur's Gate 2 was my favourite game for a long time, but after some soul-searching I decided to move it to second place. This was due to my complete inability to replay the game, and believe me I tried. I always stop playing in the Underdark, or right after I leave it and the map opens up again. That means I've only played Throne of Bhaal once 
It's the best RPG ever made, but it never clicked with me the way it did when I first played it.
Now everyone's expecting Dragon Age to be BG3, even though Bioware has repeatedly stated it won't. Let's see what happens Me, I'm gonna love it, even though I'm not too fond of high fantasy settings anymore.
It's the best RPG ever made, but it never clicked with me the way it did when I first played it.
Now everyone's expecting Dragon Age to be BG3, even though Bioware has repeatedly stated it won't. Let's see what happens
Me, I'm gonna love it, even though I'm not too fond of high fantasy settings anymore.Teknopathetic
Member
"Now everyone's expecting Dragon Age to be BG3, even though Bioware has repeatedly stated it won't. Let's see what happens Me, I'm gonna love it, even though I'm not too fond of high fantasy settings anymore."
DA isn't high fantasy. http://www.dragonagecentral.com/single/1210125300
Me, I'm gonna love it, even though I'm not too fond of high fantasy settings anymore."DA isn't high fantasy. http://www.dragonagecentral.com/single/1210125300
Yeah yeah, console gaming plebs. Such a pedestrian game, you know?Fragamemnon said:
Obviously an action-RPG doesn't have the depth of a straight RPG like Baldur's Gate. Bioware never said it would yet people were still expecting it and now they're all disappointed. It's so utterly predictable at this point. And Bioware's combat and item systems in their post-D&D games have been less comprehensive because, well I just gave it away there. It's not D&D anymore, they don't have volumes upon of volumes of rulesets to rely on. But whatever... fucking console kiddies!
Peronthious
Member
zoku88 said:
Head. Stake. Now.
To tell you the truth, I still haven't played it, but it's in the queue somewhere. So much stuff in my pile of shame.
High fantasy settings as in anything involving orcs, dwarves, elves, dragons really. If there's any thematic content in Dragon Age that puts it in another subgenre of fantasy then okay sure. I'm really not well versed when it comes to the delicacies of these descriptionsTeknopathetic said:
But it's the kind of stuff that was overdone in the 90s because of CRPGs having their roots in the pen & paper stuff. I really prefer it now when developers stray away from that and come up with novel settings. The Elder Scrolls is an offender when it comes this this. I'd rather it didn't have goblins and elves, and I'd rather Dragon Age did not have that title Fragamemnon
Member
Timber said:
It was made for the mass market, a Budweiser of RPGs if you will.
What's to prevent them from making detailed, quantitative rules and stats to govern combat in a way that keeps with action spirit of the game? Other games have done it, it's not impossible, and especially not for a company like Bioware. Why were the class abilities so little, and so completely lacking in synergy with both other abilities and the gear in the game? Why did a lion's share of the game's itemization consist of <blah_item> <roman_numeral> with incremental improvement?
It's not about not working with D&D for their more recent games. It's been about both reducing the number of gameplay decisions the player makes and the importance of those decisions, resulting a simpler game-for the fucking console kiddies, as you say-rather than their older PC fanbase, who has largely been left behind as they made their last two big games (KOTOR and ME).
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
If Dragon Age is as George R. R. Martin-esque as the developers seem to be aiming for, then "high fantasy" would be a horribly inaccurate label for the game. Yes, the thematic content will make the setting different. Things like elves, dragons, etc. won't change that--as long as they're uniquely executed.Timber said:High fantasy settings as in anything involving orcs, dwarves, elves, dragons really. If there's any thematic content in Dragon Age that puts it in another subgenre of fantasy then okay sure. I'm really not well versed when it comes to the delicacies of these descriptions
Largely been left behind. :lol Such dramatisation always from you folks. Just earlier someone said Oblivion felt like a betrayal.Fragamemnon said:
But yeah, of course you're entitled to the second coming of the best game ever after you've been left in the freezing cold for so long! They owe it to you, don't they?
Really man, all Bioware's games have been released on PC, every single one, and PC owners got the better deal every time. But none of this counts of course because they weren't the best games ever like Baldur's Gate 2.
You want to ignore the effect abandoning D&D systems had on depth an balance in combat, go ahead. They went from 2D backgrounds to 3D environments before consoles even entered the equation, and it lead to epic backlash. Gone was the complex party interaction, happened when Bioware was still PC-exclusive. And then they went for the option of every line of dialogue in their game voices. More depth gone.
Baldur's Gate 2 is a better RPG than all their others, but there is a multitude of reasons their later games, starting from the smash PC hit Neverwinter Nights, lack its complexity, none of them involve the word console. A company doesn't owe you jack, and while a gamer's sense of entitlement is a ridiculous thing to begin with, it's even worse when it's some disgruntled BG2 fanatic lamenting how Bioware abandoned them. I think it's about time you lot opened up No Orcs Allowed so you can have your way with each new Bioware game when it doesn't turn out to be something it was never supposed to be in the first place.
I disliked NWN and BGI; I guess they were both crowded out by the awesomeness of BGII (I played II before I).
However, since then I have been able to move on. BGII is still awesome, but KOTOR, ME and even JE have their redeeming qualities. If nothing else, JE and ME are extremely cinematic. ME even brings this into the dialogue, though in JE it's only really in the cutscenes.
Despite its bad gameplay and forgettable characters, I still love JE for some of the cutscenes, like the big twist.
EDIT:
I'd like to point out that, once you realise how annoying Anomen is, he's actually completely hilarious. He's seriously the world's worst Paladin. When Keldorn wants to kill Viconia, Anomen claims that she is evil, but that he didn't realise just how hot the Drow were, so maybe she should live.
However, since then I have been able to move on. BGII is still awesome, but KOTOR, ME and even JE have their redeeming qualities. If nothing else, JE and ME are extremely cinematic. ME even brings this into the dialogue, though in JE it's only really in the cutscenes.
Despite its bad gameplay and forgettable characters, I still love JE for some of the cutscenes, like the big twist.
EDIT:
NewLib said:
I'd like to point out that, once you realise how annoying Anomen is, he's actually completely hilarious. He's seriously the world's worst Paladin. When Keldorn wants to kill Viconia, Anomen claims that she is evil, but that he didn't realise just how hot the Drow were, so maybe she should live.
nelsonroyale
Member
Chairman Yang said:
George Martins books have a lot of high fantasy elements in there, just with a different lick of paint...
Yess... it's so cute when he touches the baby's nose 8)Ventrue said:
Although I really disliked the final twist. Holy crap saw that one coming a mile away. They tried to do the KotOR trick again, dumbed it down for console kiddehs, and fucked it up royally.
really though, the twist in kotor when you learn the identity of the 'villian' is so epic. in jade empire the bad guy turns out to be, drumroll, your old creepy bearded mentor with a suspicious past. you don't say! and they pull that shit at the end of the game so they dont give you any time to develop any interest in it because the game is over!
You can't say the game has forgetable characters when there's there's that little girl possessed by demons in it. although some of them were one-trick ponies, like that wretched good-for-nothing cook.
