Dreams: Let's Talk Monetisation

Oct 12, 2012
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#1
I know I'm not one for wanting to discuss monetisation but 'evidently' a PSVR dev recently spoke to Game Informer and said monetisation is coming. I was giving this a little thought because I've always said the problem is it could dissuade great creators from sharing their creations because they'd hold them back in order to sell them on PSN. I've reconsidered though and think there's a way it could actually improve the situation within the Dreams ecosystem. There needs to be stipulations in place. Some of these are arbitrary numbers because we have no way of knowing how well it's going to sell out of the blocks:

In order to qualify for PSN:

1: The creator's (or team of creator's) game must hit 100,000 plays and 25,000 likes on Dreams before they can apply for PSN.

2: They must share at least 25% of their assets with the community during the process of creating the game.

3: Games would range from: 3+ hours (£15), 2+ hours (£10) and 1+ hours (£5).

4: The game must have an intro and outro, full menu system and begin/end with credits to MM/Sony + the 'Made In Dreams' logo.

5: Once all stipulation above are met, the creator (or team of creators) then contact Sony/MM to request monetisation and sale on PSN.

6: Once Sony/MM have QCed and play tested the game, their game is either rejected (with suggestion for improvements) or accepted and given the go ahead.

7: After the creator's (or team of creator's) game has been on sale for 1 month, they MUST make the game remixable on Dreams.

The reason I was against it before is because I was thinking entirely about the Dreams community. Put these in place and trying to create saleable games would benefit the Dreams community, incentify sharing, encourage a higher quality of product and draw more professional developers into the Dreams community. The sea would lift all boats, as Shu loves to say.
 
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Feb 4, 2013
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#2

That's all I thought while reading the thread title, the rest didn't even matter after that.

In the end it will come down to money and mods is certainly a way to expand upon the subscription model to bring in more cash.
Seeing it's a creation within the game I'm not sure how one would QC that, since it works as intended (within the game, if we're generalizing).
The creators would probably put up a video on PSN, social media and maybe a short demo of their creation (10-15 minutes of testing).
 
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Feb 8, 2018
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#3
I personally have no issue with the monetisation of games created in Dreams. I think it would be a good thing. I also like your approach to this issue, however I do have a few questions to spark discussion.
First though I think 100,000 plays is too much. I would cut that in half.
Now for the questions:
- what happens to the game once it gets approved? Does it disappear from the server?
- do the people that previously played the game for free have it removed from there console? (Is the game even downloaded when you play it?)
- do the assets disappear? If so what happens to the games that used those assets?

I wasn’t in the beta so I’m not sure how the games are accessed.

Anyway nice work putting this together. Should be an interesting thread!
 
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Oct 12, 2012
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#4

That's all I thought while reading the thread title, the rest didn't even matter after that.

In the end it will come down to money and mods is certainly a way to expand upon the subscription model to bring in more cash.
Seeing it's a creation within the game I'm not sure how one would QC that, since it works as intended (within the game, if we're generalizing).
The creators would probably put up a video on PSN, social media and maybe a short demo of their creation (10-15 minutes of testing).
It's not a game within a game, it's a game made with the Dreams development suite, just as people would make games with Unity. The same standards for any PSN would apply because the creators (developers) would have complete control of how their game looks and performs.
 
Oct 12, 2012
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#5
I personally have no issue with the monetisation of games created in Dreams. I think it would be a good thing. I also like your approach to this issue, however I do have a few questions to spark discussion.
First though I think 100,000 plays is too much. I would cut that in half.
Now for the questions:
- what happens to the game once it gets approved? Does it disappear from the server?
- do the people that previously played the game for free have it removed from there console? (Is the game even downloaded when you play it?)
- do the assets disappear? If so what happens to the games that used those assets?

I wasn’t in the beta so I’m not sure how the games are accessed.

Anyway nice work putting this together. Should be an interesting thread!
I don't think 100,000 is too high. We've already got games that have been played 3000 - 4000 times and the community was small. The game wouldn't disappear from Dreams, as I've pointed out, it would actually be made remixable after a month on PSN. When I was first thinking about this (before I was on board with the idea), I was thinking about Dreams + PSN as one community, but in order for this to work they'd have to be seen as two different communities, one the incentive to improve, the other the incentive to continue improving. If you owned Dreams then you'd play the game for free but considering there are over 90+ million PS4 owners, it's highly unlikely they'd all own a copy of Dreams. No, the assets wouldn't disappear, they'd increase because, as I've stipulated, their game would HAVE to be made remixable after it has been on sale for 1 months. And of course, as I've also pointed out, at least 25% of the assets must be made available DURING the process of creating the game.
 
Feb 4, 2013
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#6
It's not a game within a game, it's a game made with the Dreams development suite,
That leads to the question, what is Dreams?
Since the first trailer I thought it was some kind of game, then it became a game that you could be creative a la LBP.
So you're basically given tool set and you can go crazy with your idea's or is there a game to be played in the usual sense?
 
Oct 12, 2012
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#7
That leads to the question, what is Dreams?
Since the first trailer I thought it was some kind of game, then it became a game that you could be creative a la LBP.
So you're basically given tool set and you can go crazy with your idea's or is there a game to be played in the usual sense?
No, it's not a game. The only reason MM are offering a campaign (made with the Dreams development suite), is to show the capabilities of the Dreams engine and development suite. This is why there's been a lot of confusion but more and more people are starting to realise what Dreams is.
 
Likes: Shin
Sep 3, 2017
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#9
Dreams is not smooth enough to offer a real full game experiance. It is great but you have to jump through hoops to get your code in and make transitions between scenes and gameplay.

Prototyping on Dreams, and making throwaway work on dreams is what it is good for game devs. You can test things but making a full game within a game, is just not a likely future.
 
Oct 12, 2012
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#10
Maybe you finish the game and get it out to the stores first. You know let people play it etc.
No, that would be counter productive for the Dreams community. As I've outlined, the Dreams community should be the litmus test to see if it's worthy of monetisation and THEN it can be put on PSN. There HAS to be these stipulations otherwise all the best creators on Dreams would stop sharing their work freely and that would kill Dreams.
 
Oct 12, 2012
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#11
Dreams is not smooth enough to offer a real full game experiance. It is great but you have to jump through hoops to get your code in and make transitions between scenes and gameplay.

Prototyping on Dreams, and making throwaway work on dreams is what it is good for game devs. You can test things but making a full game within a game, is just not a likely future.
Was you in the beta?
 
Feb 18, 2009
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#12
No, that would be counter productive for the Dreams community. As I've outlined, the Dreams community should be the litmus test to see if it's worthy of monetisation and THEN it can be put on PSN. There HAS to be these stipulations otherwise all the best creators on Dreams would stop sharing their work freely and that would kill Dreams.
I was actually talking about Dreams. Maybe you should get it out and actually get a community first before talking about this.
 
Oct 12, 2012
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#13
I was actually talking about Dreams. Maybe you should get it out and actually get a community first before talking about this.
That was exactly my feelings on the matter and I said it many times. However, it's come to light that a PSVR developer was talking to Game Informer and said it's in, and it very much sounded like it's something we'll see sooner rather than later. This proposition is what I consider a way of building the Dreams community, increasing the quality of content, while at the same time offer an avenue for monetisation.
 
Sep 4, 2014
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#14
If it needs 100k or more plays on dreams before being able to be sold, why would anyone buy this again if they already played it in dreams? Also if people can download it In dreams, someone will just re-release it as his level once it gets removed from the servers just like YouTube videos get thousands of re-uploads. This either needs to be monetized from the beginning with no access to the assets or it won't work out at all.
 
Likes: FatboyTim
Oct 12, 2012
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#15
If it needs 100k or more plays on dreams before being able to be sold, why would anyone buy this again if they already played it in dreams? Also if people can download it In dreams, someone will just re-release it as his level once it gets removed from the servers just like YouTube videos get thousands of re-uploads. This either needs to be monetized from the beginning with no access to the assets or it won't work out at all.
Because even 1m plays is 'not quite' as many as 92 million PS4 players who haven't got Dreams and stumble upon the game on PSN ... . It won't get released from the servers, it will be made available to remix (is anyone actually reading what I've written or are they just reading the thread title?). What is this 'why would you want to buy it if they've already played it?' You wouldn't buy it again because you've played it and continue to be able to play it for FREE. Other people who don't own a copy of Dreams will buy it.

If you stop access to the assets, allow top creators to hide their work until it's finished and available to sell on PSN, Dreams will DIE.

The idea is to create a system that improves over time, not to create a system that hides their best stuff because they want to sell it. Dreams has to be the proving grounds and then it can be sold on PSN.
 
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Nov 24, 2013
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#22
If you are going all the way and making a proper game with the hope of monetisation, then surely the serious options are Unity and UE4. Which to me is where Dreams will fall short, it’s kinda fun if you like tinkering but ultimately pointless for anyone serious about game dev.