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EA Estimates PS4/XB1 sales 103M last year (29.4M/73.6M) UPDATE: Microsoft PR Refutes but doesn't supply numbers

Panajev2001a

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One thing is for sure. PS4 is in the lead. There is another thing that equally telling. Xbox's overall contribution to Microsoft's revenue. They are making boat loads of cash in the billions despite all this negative press and biased media.

I'm curious about if you compare the 2 systems based on revenue made within the same time period, would it be on a more level playing field. If that's is the case, then that is really telling about Sony's attachment and engagement rate. In the age of GASS this may end up being the more telling measurement of success. While, at least in the beginning of a console generation, both Sony and Microsoft tend to lose money on all console sales for the first couple of years.

Basically, it's not so cut n dry anymore.

Looking at the revenue in the same time period (skewed by MS having just released a much higher priced product in that quarter, skewing revenue up) you have about $2.251 Billion for MS’s whole gaming segment vs $4.0638 Billion (based on today’s xe.com exchange rate, so not entirely accurate) for Sony.

MS Q3 FY2018
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Investor/earnings/FY-2018-Q3/press-release-webcast
https://ie1-powerpoint.officeapps.l...ess_token_ttl=0&access_token=1&wdMobileHost=2

Sony Q4 FY2017
https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/17q4_sonypre.pdf
 

Panajev2001a

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xbox has been considered for some time now to be Console,MS Store/Xbox App and Windows Phone(rip).

You dont "play pc" when you get on Sea of Thieves, you are always playing Xbox. Xbox is the gaming brand which also encompasses and originated from consoles but is not limited to that.

vs the earlier

Xbox with about 35M units can and does compete when it comes to revenue vs a system about to hit 80M

So it is not Xbox with about 30-35 Million units handily going toe to to with the 89 Million PlayStation 4 consoles, but a wider xbox Ecosystem.
 

thelastword

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EA: Xbox one installed based is x
MS: installed based isn’t x
Everybody: then what is it?
MS: secret.

Succint!.....

Is this true though? Microsoft as a whole are making billions, yes, but they hide Xbox division profit/loss behind figures from many other products and services. If you have the exact numbers on just the Xbox division revenue and profit then please do share.

As for your follow up question I think it's safer to assume that Playstation generates more revenue than Xbox at the moment just based on overall game sales on each platform (Playstation consistently outselling Xbox on major 3rd party releases) and the PS+ subs hitting a total that is almost the same as the entire Xbox install base. Where would MS be generating the extra revenue to gain an equal footing in your scenario?

Also, both Sony and MS said they were making a small profit on every console sold since day 1, however the Xbox One seems to be constantly discounted heavily to remain competitive so we don't even know if that's true any more.
Good post, especially the last paragraph. I mean you've been having deals like this. https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/04/heres-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-and-a-1tb-xbox-one-for-199/, where the xbox could be had for 199.99 with a game. I believe Costco had a deal just last week with discounts on XBONE-S and XBONEX. You also have deals on XBONEX like this, with a 100.00 giftcard..https://slickdeals.net/f/11302155-x...99-with-free-shipping-starts-9pm-pst-12am-est. Deals for the Xbox consoles are everywhere, yet they're still selling below the competiton at a lower price on average.

When the XBONEX launched, some buyers suggested it was well worth the price, to them it may have been so, or maybe it was purchase justification talking, but my argument was that, XBONEX was never going to pull much folk beyond the MS hardcore, nobody is going to ditch the current PS consoles which play all multplatforms just fine and go buy a $500.00 box to play the same multi's at 30fps and miss out on the best software, even if you are a multiconsole owner, who has all the time to juggle two consoles, pay for two online services, pay for gamepass, pay for EA access etc....It's a question of if one console could give you the best exclusives, you can play farcry 5 etc...at the same 30fps, some multi's even at better framerates. Why would you pay $500.00 towards the end of the generation with no distinguishing or must have benefits commensurate with the markup?.... It's the problem MS has, they had an underpowered console selling at $500.00, focused on Kinect, now they have the best hardware without the software with 1.5-2 years to go in the gen at the same 5 bills, it's not going to work and anyone who believed XBONEX would change MS fortunes because it's better hardware, could not see the forrest from the trees.....

MS believed XBONE-S's only problem was Kinect, they remove Kinect and now they focus on UHD bluray and 4k marketing speak as a selling point, another mistake..."without consistent delivery at that". This gen, MS has the habit of focusing on the wrong things, they try to fix things but still are not sure what's broken. Yet it's a simple business since day one, gamers buy a box to play distinguished software, ware they can't get to play elsewhere as a primary, ware they know the maunfacturer has a habit of delivering on. People hail multiplatform games and they're fine, yet here's the thing. Sony fumbled in many ways last gen, $600.00 console, exotic cpu, divided pools and lower overall ram to devs, a bad deal with Nvidia for the GPU, which combined, led to worse multiplats against the 360, yet, PS3 was able to exceed 360 sales in the end, because of what? lots of unique and compelling software. (Demon Souls, UC trilogy, TLOU, The Show, GT5, LBP, Folklore, GOW3 etc..)....it's the software from the first party stable that people continued to buy the console for, third parties was just a bonus..... And... that could not have been clearer a picture last gen, a console clearly had the worse multiplats but millions still played GTA4 and Bayonetta on PS3 because they could also play lots of exclusive highly rated software as a primary.

So yes, MS's problem is price and a lack of software. Yet one don't go without the other, Sony had a price problem with PS3, coming one year later at that, they rectified the price in later PS3 iterations whilst silmultaneously bringing the software. MS consoles on debut has been too expensive for what they offer, especially without the software. XBONE at $500 against a more powerful PS4 in 2013 and XBONEX in late 2017 at $500.00 against a PS4/PRO at $299-399 with all the rated software and they play all the multi's in good clip.... Funny enough, all the rage about BC is in 2018, but the PS3 was the best BC console in history, you could play all ps1 and ps2 software, no purchases necessary, no waiting for patches, yet all I heard then, was George Foreman Grill et al, work two jobs etc...Where was all the praise for the best BC in a console, giving you access to three gens of stellar software? The point is, Sony wasted that effort on nostalgia, it was nice and a good gesture, but more people complained about the price of PS3 as opposed to the endless bounties of BC. I still have my Phat PS3 around and I had no problems paying $600.00 because I know the PS3 software would come, however BC caused the console to be more expensive than it had to be, yet, if more of that MB space and even time, money and engineering could have been devoted to putting a much better GPU into the PS3 or even more ram, I'd have preferred that over putting the PS2 chipset in the PS3.

As for the OP, this gen has just been a strange one. MS is declaring everything to be doing stellar on their end. QB broke records, (Remedy went their way) SOT broke records, (Rare are sitting on prickles atm), Sunset Overdrive did great, (Insomniac is back at Sony doing a Spiderman game) Dead Rising did great, XBONEX is pulling billions worth of engagement. Everything is selling beyond expectations, everything is honkie doree....What are the numbers MS "just believe whydontyou"......reminds me of this Iraqui information general, who said everything was ok and they were doing great, when several bombs could be seen deployed in the background....

....I didn't have time to get the exact video, but he's the guy, master at PR right there
 
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vs the earlier



So it is not Xbox with about 30-35 Million units handily going toe to to with the 89 Million PlayStation 4 consoles, but a wider xbox Ecosystem.
well yeah thats why they also have like 50-55m MAU (pretty sure its around 50m) on Xbox Live even tho they for sure havent sold that many xbox one's

The only hardware outside of peripherals that MS sells that are Xbox are Xbox consoles which in fact have sold about 35m units. still pretty great for the brand and platform if it can push only 35ish million units and compete via games sold,services (they have more than PS) and the pretty small and limited PC space that Xbox has compared to the obvious king which is Steam. 89m I thought the last PS official thing was 79m maybe im just not up to date.
 

Panajev2001a

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well yeah thats why they also have like 50-55m MAU (pretty sure its around 50m) on Xbox Live even tho they for sure havent sold that many xbox one's

The only hardware outside of peripherals that MS sells that are Xbox are Xbox consoles which in fact have sold about 35m units. still pretty great for the brand and platform if it can push only 35ish million units and compete via games sold,services (they have more than PS) and the pretty small and limited PC space that Xbox has compared to the obvious king which is Steam. 89m I thought the last PS official thing was 79m maybe im just not up to date.

Sorry I made a phone typo, it is not 89 Million.

Revenue for the previous very lucrative quarter (should include the big Winter Holidays period)... I made a mistake earlier: while there are still some residual effects, the major revenue boost for the increased price of Xbox One X happened the previous quarter.

MS (revenue out of Xbox consoles too): $3.92 Billion
Sony: $6.562 Billion at today’s exchange rate (¥718.0 Billion)

All in all considered, still paints a positive picture for Sony’s lead... and it is in line with the console sales.

Numbers for the following quarter posted a few posts above.
 
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TBiddy

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Saying an estimate is wrong without providing any quantifiable data is all kinds of "accept my bluff"...."trust me aight" wink wink! ........So then, EA's estimates stand, besides, EA never gave a breakdown, that was extrapolated from their total figure, and MS's figure only came out because Sony has been forthcoming with theirs, so people did a little subtraction.

So, either trust the company actually selling the machines or trusting the biggest Sony-fanboy in the history of Neogaf? That's a tough bet, right?
 

sono

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Those seem like they good numbers for the industry!
 
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Vawn

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So, either trust the company actually selling the machines or trusting the biggest Sony-fanboy in the history of Neogaf? That's a tough bet, right?

The company selling the machines has more to gain by misleading people, so yeah.
 

Ar¢tos

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I don't understand how can the MAU be an effective way to measure success/sales. I have one account shared between 2 vitas, 1 ps3 and 1 Ps4. I could even add another ps3 and a pstv all using the same account at the same time.
On the other hand I also have 5 psn accounts from different countries.
I don't know if xbox account system is much different that allows it to be used as a measure unit.
 

DynamiteCop!

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Wait... I thought Microsoft was saying theyre going to sell 1 billion Xbox Ones?

https://www.vg247.com/2013/05/24/xb...on-lifetime-sales-100-million-xbox-360-units/
You're fundamentally misunderstanding what he was conveying here. He's not talking about the Xbox One in particular, but rather console progression through generations and how they are becoming much more multifaceted and reaching a much larger market segment. He's saying consoles in general can go from 300 million in a generation to a billion if they cater to the needs of not only gamers but also a broader scale of consumers.
 

Vawn

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You do know that it would be illegal for Microsoft to publically lie, right?

Who said they lied? They were careful to not say anything.

They said the numbers aren't accurate. They could be low, high, off by .1%, etc. Clearly, they want us to assume they are significantly higher, but also don't want to reveal what the actual numbers are.
 
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TannerDemoz

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Who said they lied? They were careful to not say anything.

They said the numbers aren't accurate. They could be low, high, off by .1%, etc. Clearly, they want us to assume they are significantly higher, but also don't want to reveal what the actual numbers are.

Isn't this similar to sea of thieves sales were the numbers also counted free downloads from Game Pass? Can you call that a sale? Meh
 

Vawn

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Isn't this similar to sea of thieves sales were the numbers also counted free downloads from Game Pass? Can you call that a sale? Meh

If these companies weren't so willing to give sales data when they are leading, it wouldn't be so easy to presume worst case scenario when they become secretive about the numbers.
 

TBiddy

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Who said they lied? They were careful to not say anything.

They said the numbers aren't accurate. They could be low, high, off by .1%, etc. Clearly, they want us to assume they are significantly higher, but also don't want to reveal what the actual numbers are.

thelastword specifically said that EAs numbers were accurate, which they obviously aren't.
 

Norse

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Numbers to me that matter are the ones for my particular country. Worldwide sales are important, but living in the US I really only care that PS4 & Xbox 1 are separated by maybe 10% in total units sold to date. And last gen the 360 outsold PS3 here in the states. There is no shortage of games to be played if you only own an Xbox.
 

Jigsaah

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So this would then support my point, essentially. With Sony having so many more consoles out there you would think the difference would be much larger. So while consoles sales are important for obvious reasons, it's the engagement and attach rate that matters more. Thanks for sharing.
 

Drewpee

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I think Microsoft is making the right decision by keeping their numbers to themselves. The only thing the numbers provide is ammunition for one side or the other depending on your console of choice. Microsoft has made it extremely clear that they do not want any part of the console wars. Maybe that is because they are getting destroyed so badly that it was their only move, but I tend to think it is more about what they want their gaming culture to be.
 

Drewpee

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This is a lie. They will come out boasting when they beat the competition during the specific month(s).
Possibly but I don't think that will happen and personally I REALLY hope they don't go back there, even if they are having amazing sales. I don't need to know that my console has sold x amount of units to enjoy it and I don't see why most of us need to know, it adds nothing to the conversation imo.
 
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Jigsaah

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I think Microsoft is making the right decision by keeping their numbers to themselves. The only thing the numbers provide is ammunition for one side or the other depending on your console of choice. Microsoft has made it extremely clear that they do not want any part of the console wars. Maybe that is because they are getting destroyed so badly that it was their only move, but I tend to think it is more about what they want their gaming culture to be.

To be fair, even when Microsoft was dominating in the 360 era, they didn't make a point of jabbing at Sony. This was pre-Phil Spencer as well, the de facto kumbiya executive where everything is picnics and butterflies. So that means the culture of Microsoft was always semi-competitive. On the other hand I think it's important that someone sparks those flames but tastefully so. Sony's not so subtle jab at that famed E3 with Kaz and whoever that other guy was talking about how to share games (you know what I'm talking about) was especially distasteful in my opinion. Especially when they had plans similar to Microsoft and quickly scrapped them once they saw the backlash Microsoft was experiencing. It's good business, granted, but it does paint them as somewhat ruthless coming out of a generation that one could argue 360 won. I don't like that kind of practice, which is what kept me with Xbox primarily, although I own both consoles.
 

Vawn

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I think Microsoft is making the right decision by keeping their numbers to themselves. The only thing the numbers provide is ammunition for one side or the other depending on your console of choice. Microsoft has made it extremely clear that they do not want any part of the console wars. Maybe that is because they are getting destroyed so badly that it was their only move, but I tend to think it is more about what they want their gaming culture to be.

Neither side cares about the console war. They never have. At least not for became reasons as fans.

The reason the winner constantly supplies numbers and the other tries to ignore them because these tend to snowball.

The side that is winning is usually winning for a reason. People know this and feel more comfortable investing their money in the healthier ecosystem as it almost always gets the best support from first, second and third party developers.
 
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Jigsaah

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Neither side cares about the console war. They never have. At least not for became reasons as fans.

The reason the winner constantly supplies numbers and the other tries to ignore them because these tend to snowball.

The side that is winning is usually winning for a reason. People know this and feel more comfortable investing their money in the healthier ecosystem as it almost always gets the best support from first, second and third party developers.

Xbox One X: Hol my beer.
 

Drewpee

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To be fair, even when Microsoft was dominating in the 360 era, they didn't make a point of jabbing at Sony. This was pre-Phil Spencer as well, the de facto kumbiya executive where everything is picnics and butterflies. So that means the culture of Microsoft was always semi-competitive. On the other hand I think it's important that someone sparks those flames but tastefully so. Sony's not so subtle jab at that famed E3 with Kaz and whoever that other guy was talking about how to share games (you know what I'm talking about) was especially distasteful in muy opinion. Especially when they had plans similar to Microsoft and quickly scrapped them once they saw the backlash Microsoft was experiencing. It's good business, granted, but it does paint them as somewhat ruthless coming out of a generation that one could argue 360 won. I don't like that kind of practice, which is what kept me with Xbox primarily, although I own both consoles.

I agree, I hated how hypocritical Sony was in that conference because the entire industry, imo, was going the same way as Microsoft. However, I am glad that Microsoft was ridiculed for that type of anti consumer practice.

Even though Sony look like hypocrites they were atleast smart enough to ditch the practice right away instead of trying to find excuses for such shady behavior.
 

Panajev2001a

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So this would then support my point, essentially. With Sony having so many more consoles out there you would think the difference would be much larger. So while consoles sales are important for obvious reasons, it's the engagement and attach rate that matters more. Thanks for sharing.

Sony does not sell much above the 2:1 ratio and MS is packing revenue generated outside Xbox consoles so it supports a bit of both points... I honestly think that sales matter and they have an effect on engagement and attach rate...

All in all revenue is following console sales numbers pretty well.
 

demigod

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Possibly but I don't think that will happen and personally I REALLY hope they don't go back there, even if they are having amazing sales.

Already happened recently but you can keep pretending it won’t.
 

DynamiteCop!

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Who said they lied? They were careful to not say anything.

They said the numbers aren't accurate. They could be low, high, off by .1%, etc. Clearly, they want us to assume they are significantly higher, but also don't want to reveal what the actual numbers are.
A 750 billion dollar entity is not going to come out and publicly chastise a major publishers unit estimations as wrong unless it's egregiously inaccurate. How much flack does the Xbox One get in the public and media eye that Microsoft doesn't bat an eye at, yet this they almost immediately invalidated.

They're not going to give a figure because it goes against their modus operandi, they've made it very clear since 2015 that they no longer operate under that form of standardization. Coming after Microsoft for not providing numbers is like attacking them for not having exclusive games when they've made it clear their games are Windows 10 shared. Every market indication puts the Xbox One on the verge of hitting 40 million units shortly, according to all compiled NPD data it's at 21 million LTD in the United States alone which is basically 55-60% of their market given available sales data from other territories.

We all know 29.4 million is absurdly inaccurate so why Microsoft called these estimates out it fundamentally clear.
 

Panajev2001a

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A 750 billion dollar entity is not going to come out and publicly chastise a major publishers unit estimations as wrong unless it's egregiously inaccurate. How much flack does the Xbox One get in the public and media eye that Microsoft doesn't bat an eye at, yet this they almost immediately invalidated.

They're not going to give a figure because it goes against their modus operandi, they've made it very clear since 2015 that they no longer operate under that form of standardization. Coming after Microsoft for not providing numbers is like attacking them for not having exclusive games when they've made it clear their games are Windows 10 shared. Every market indication puts the Xbox One on the verge of hitting 40 million units shortly, according to all compiled NPD data it's at 21 million LTD in the United States alone which is basically 55-60% of their market given available sales data from other territories.

We all know 29.4 million is absurdly inaccurate so why Microsoft called these estimates out it fundamentally clear.

It is not like exclusive games to the console vs games available on Windows too... I am sorry, but I do not believe that. If they ever sold more than their competition you would see that their modus operandi changes again mysteriously to a company who gives out sales data.
 

FranXico

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Even though Sony look like hypocrites they were atleast smart enough to ditch the practice right away instead of trying to find excuses for such shady behavior.

If Sony ditched the whole thing right away (and they probably did so only because the traditional DRM cost them less money upfront), they were just smart to exploit the situation for PR, they didn't look hypocritical for that.

Microsoft on the other hand, along with famous "180" immediately launched a "Get the Facts" campaign with which they pretended to make it look like they never planned to do anything and act innocent. That was in fact a major display of hypocrisy, they insulted the intelligence of the consumers and made matters even worse.

Which is why I hope MS never gains a dominant position in the market, they already showed their true face once and compared to Sony (which is greedy but predictable) they definitely are the greater of two evils.
 

bitbydeath

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according to all compiled NPD data it's at 21 million LTD in the United States alone which is basically 55-60% of their market

That sounds way to low for US. Surely they’re closer to 70% if not 80% in the US. Where else could they be making their numbers?
 

DynamiteCop!

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That sounds way to low for US. Surely they’re closer to 70% if not 80% in the US. Where else could they be making their numbers?
There's 194 other countries in the world, Europe would obviously be the second largest market. Jim Ryan stated that the PlayStation 4 was selling at three times the rate of the Xbox One there, currently Sony's market share in Europe is approximately 35 million so that would be about 11.66 million in Europe. Then you calculate the rest of North American (Canada/Mexico) which would no doubt be another 2-3 million, then there's all of Asia, the Middle East, Australia, and South America.

38-40 million seems extremely grounded.
 
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bitbydeath

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There's 194 other countries in the world, Europe would obviously be the second largest market. Jim Ryan stated that the PlayStation 4 was selling at three times the rate of the Xbox One there, currently Sony's market share in Europe is approximately 35 million so that would be about 11.66 million in Europe. Then you calculate the rest of North American (Canada/Mexico) which would no doubt be another 2-3 million, then there's all of Asia, the Middle East, Australia, and South America.

38-40 million seems extremely grounded.

Do you have a link for this?
 

DynamiteCop!

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Do you have a link for this?
I've read it a few places so it absolutely exists but I'll have to track it down. It's one of those things where I forgot the exact wording he used so Google searches are a pain in the ass. I'll link you as soon as I can pinpoint it.
 

DynamiteCop!

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Do you have a link for this?
Actually I found it decently quick.

“It’s been pleasing that in North America, we’ve been 2-to-1 against Xbox,” says Ryan. “But in Europe, it’s really been fortress PlayStation by at least 3-to-1 in unit sales.”

http://time.com/4804768/playstation-4-ps4-pro-psvr-sales/

P.S. His 2-to-1 statement for North America is extremely inaccurate, NPD data completely contradicts that, he's from Europe so that may have something to do with it.
 
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bitbydeath

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Actually I found it decently quick.

“It’s been pleasing that in North America, we’ve been 2-to-1 against Xbox,” says Ryan. “But in Europe, it’s really been fortress PlayStation by at least 3-to-1 in unit sales.”

http://time.com/4804768/playstation-4-ps4-pro-psvr-sales/

P.S. His 2-to-1 statement for North America is extremely inaccurate, NPD data completely contradicts that, he's from Europe so that may have something to do with it.

Thanks, it is strange he would have access to any of MS's information since it is not public. Unless he is just guessing, I wouldn't imagine MS sharing numbers with Sony.
 

DynamiteCop!

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Thanks, it is strange he would have access to any of MS's information since it is not public. Unless he is just guessing, I wouldn't imagine MS sharing numbers with Sony.
Since they sell direct to retailers they likely have easy access to sales information.