Batman in name only.
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early Man of Steel impressions
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Batman in name only.
MisterHero
Super Member
Don't forget Talia Al Ghul.
Put Ra's himself in that above list, but some changes work. Bruce isn't nearly as smart as he is in the comics but that's okay.
KidGalactus
Member
Alright. You got me. I'm on the trolley. Underwater movies!
Wait... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3dnwxUSK9k
Bobby Roberts
Banned
We're more agreeing than disagreeing here, but the Begins is not at all indicative of the direction WB was going at first. Aronofsky's Year One is where they wanted to go. Begins (aside from the fact it's an origin) isn't really similar in the slightest to what Aronofsky/Miller were doing w/ Year One.
You can make a sandwich with simple cliches! Look at that! Crusts cut off & everything.
Inception & Dark Knight Rises are bloated movies that talked quite a bit, yes. But this backlash (and it's a backlash) is one of the more forgetful backlashes, especially considering how much people championed stuff like Memento and The Prestige when they came out. The idea that a "Nolan movie" is simply people spewing nonstop exposition at each other is almost as silly as the idea that a Snyder movie is non-stop speed-ramping.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
You crazy bro
Vastly overexaggerating. The characters may have been different, but they weren't fucked up. They were used in a way that worked best in the medium they were displayed in.
BadAss2961
Member
The impressions almost sound too perfect.
Also, you guys really need to stop acting like Nolan = bad. No one's buying it.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
That scene doesn't really work in this context.
He wasn't puking because of disgust of anything. He drank too much because of watching his world around him change. Losing his sense of identity.
I just watched BSG...
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Okay, this is probably contextually more appropriate, then.
Much better.
I didn't exaggerate anything. I just came up with pithy nomenclature.
BadAss2961
Member
WB was also planning a Batman Beyond film, some kind of Retired Batman / Dick Grayson the College Years movie and Batman vs Superman. Doesn't really mean anything if it doesn't get made.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I already mentioned those? At least Batman Beyond. Forgot to mention the Batman vs. Superman film (script by Andrew Kevin Walker, hired mostly because of "Seven") - but if anything, the scattered/confused nature of their pre-production speaks more to the idea that they didn't really have a plan until they saw something else to launch from.
that something else includes Singer's X-movies. It probably wasn't the MAJORITY, but again - I have a hard time believing it wasn't a big part, especially considering they poached him from Fox when they had the chance.
Well played, sir.
Okay, this is probably contextually more appropriate, then.
More appropriate for more Spiderman movies
Bobby Roberts
Banned
He's a superhero, it's a thread about superhero movies!
I'm getting granular about explaining a visual gag where Spider-Man violently barfs through his mask.
INTERNET!
shira
Member
Prolly be the same as that no CG Wolverine Xmen Origins leak
What aspects of the X-Men movies do you think Batman Begins pulled from?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I dunno, Snyder has that certain specific slo-mo style.Of course there's Slo-Mo in it. Every fucking action movie ever made has slo-mo in it.
It's hard to market a "serious Superman" movie to the masses. That's why comics excel at him.
The VOICE of a COMIC BOOK character ?
REALLY ?????
The only watchable version of the movie
BadAss2961
Member
Watchmen had its moments. 300 was good. I even liked Sucker Punch for what it was.
The thing with Snyder is that he seems like a good fit for what Superman needs. Enough with the bullshit... Just give Snyder a decent script where he can give us a kickass Superman with great fights and some spectacular visuals.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Okay, maybe this is the misunderstanding we're having. I'm not saying NOLAN was pulling from Singer, or was even told to pull from Singer.
I'm saying Nolan was hired because WB looked at the market, saw what Singer had done with his approach to the X-Men, and noted what stylistic and tonal choices he made as a means to ground his superheroes.
They ditched Year One, which had stalled by then due to the shitpoor script, Batman Beyond also got the can due to its own troubled pre-production, Batman vs. Superman false started, but all three of those nascent productions were formless & directionless: The studio didn't really know what it wanted even as drafts were coming in. And the comedy of errors that was Superman Lives, along with Batman & Robin's awful reception, had the executives at WB second and triple guessing all of their decisions.
So here's Singer, taking something as fucking ridiculous as the X-Men, and making two solid movies out of them. How did he do that? Can WE do that?
Fox got the guy who did Usual Suspects. Let's get a guy who made a great, gritty indie film. (granted, they did this w/ Aronofsky, too)
Fox toned down a LOT of the outlandish elements. We should probably do that, too. Keep things pretty grounded. (None of the other options were really grounded, and two of them were definitely R-rated films)
Fox went out and paid a lot of money for some pretty good actors. We should do something similar.
So they went out, got Nolan, paired him with Goyer, got a down-to-earth take on a Superhero, paid the money to get serious actors to stack the cast with, and put him in control of the cinematic Batman universe in the way Fox did with Singer - until WB had a chance to grab up Singer, too... who then immediately stranded them with a boring, tension-free, overlong Superman sequel.
WB didn't get back into the superhero game until they had a formula to crib from - and large chunks of that formula came from what Singer did on X-Men. Now they're struggling because they're so glued to their own mutation of that formula that now, when audiences have shown they don't NEED to have ridiculous stories about flying supermen all grim and grounded, they're stuck.
Nizz
Member
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
Some actor (small time parts) who saw a screening tweeted this like 12 mins ago...
"Nick Jones Jr. ‏@njfuture
"I guess I can say this now. I saw Man of Steel the other day at a special screening.... It was a masterpiece of epic proportions"
I don't recall any comic fans even after seeing screenings of Returns come out saying this stuff.
Here is his resume and according to his trivia he's a huge comic fan and it seems they won him over...
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3842480/
"Nick Jones Jr. ‏@njfuture
"I guess I can say this now. I saw Man of Steel the other day at a special screening.... It was a masterpiece of epic proportions"
I don't recall any comic fans even after seeing screenings of Returns come out saying this stuff.
Here is his resume and according to his trivia he's a huge comic fan and it seems they won him over...
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3842480/
BadAss2961
Member
I don't know, Fatboy... It's a bit much to say that WB cribbed from Fox/Singer/X-Men when the two outcomes were so completely different.
Batman is already as down-to-earth as it gets, and already had material where he was grounded even further to work off of... I've never even looked at X-Men as a grounded take on the characters. It was just more of the typical re-imagining that goes into making a decent film adaptation.
All the rest of those points seem like no-brainers...
Get a talented, up & coming director - check.
Hire good actors - check.
Batman is already as down-to-earth as it gets, and already had material where he was grounded even further to work off of... I've never even looked at X-Men as a grounded take on the characters. It was just more of the typical re-imagining that goes into making a decent film adaptation.
All the rest of those points seem like no-brainers...
Get a talented, up & coming director - check.
Hire good actors - check.
but was it visceral
Whoa all caps braj! I was whimsically critical. I am first to snort when people get bent double about logic in a story about a man fighting crime in a cape.
Like I said before, the tone of Batman Begins had far more to do with the failure of Batman & Robin than anything. Any thought that a superhero movie had to be dark to be successful was put to bed when Spider-man came out in 2002, but Batman had to go for the complete opposite of B&R to be taken seriously.
Outside of Nolan and Singer both doing well-regarded indie films before moving to superheroes there isn't much else in common. If the only other connection is "hire good actors" I don't really agree there either. There's maybe five good actors out of dozens in the X-Men movies, and I can guarantee you they didn't break the bank casting anyone in X-Men or X2. Hell, two of the villains in the original were played by a model and a stuntman.
It was pretty much in line with superhero movies of the time. Even Spawn had Martin Sheen in it.
Outside of Nolan and Singer both doing well-regarded indie films before moving to superheroes there isn't much else in common. If the only other connection is "hire good actors" I don't really agree there either. There's maybe five good actors out of dozens in the X-Men movies, and I can guarantee you they didn't break the bank casting anyone in X-Men or X2. Hell, two of the villains in the original were played by a model and a stuntman.
It was pretty much in line with superhero movies of the time. Even Spawn had Martin Sheen in it.
Damn. Brutal.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Again, just to clarify - I'm not saying they copied down to the letter. Or even that it was the majority. But the influence is there - backed up by the fact they went and stole his ass away from Fox when they had the opportunity.
WB executives most definitely were looking at what Fox did w/ X-Men. Fuck, EVERYONE was. X-Men was considered a big experiment in the industry. When it worked, executives most DEFINTELY were looking to see what bits & pieces of that films behind-the-scenes machinations they could appropriate for their own.
And not to sound too cynical, but "spend money on good actors" and "Get talented, up & coming director" aren't really as "no-brainer" as they should be. Or more to the point, they get mutated into "Spend money on a name" and "get a kid we can boss around."
Again, at the time - this wasn't that big a pull. Now? Yeah, seems like they got a major score. But I would argue that using Spawn as an example of X-men/X-men 2 being superhero status quo is a bad call, Ripley.
I don't wanna belabor the point too much further, otherwise we're just gonna start getting really circular, but basically - I get the sense you guys are giving the money-men/executives at these studios a little more credit than they deserve so far as knowing what they wanted/knowing how to get it, and are minimizing the effects of those first two X-Men movies in the face of what happened to that series since, and how superhero movies evolved since 2006. But before Batman Begins came out - people were most definitely looking at what Fox did, and trying to figure out how they could do it at their studios, too. The climate now is not what it was then, and I think even 6 or 7 years removed, it's hard to remember what it was like at the time.
Batman & Robin failing was a big deal - I never said it wasn't. It spurred them to find another direction, yes. They found like 13 different directions, all of them confused/aimless in their own way, and didn't land on one until after X-Men & X-Men 2 landed. Then they had their direction. After that, it was a matter of rejiggering formulas, hiring their own talent, and giving that talent the leeway that essentially having no other choice will provide.
This thread needs less vomit gifs.
Man of Steel is basically the only announced superhero movie I have any interest in, so I hope it's damned good. I'm very optimistic.
Correct, Gravity is October 6th.
Man of Steel is basically the only announced superhero movie I have any interest in, so I hope it's damned good. I'm very optimistic.
Correct, Gravity is October 6th.
"Spend good money on actors" does not apply to the X-Men movies. The only inspired choice was Ian McKellen and he wasn't exactly commanding a high salary at the time. Patrick Stewart was making Z-grade TNG films and TV movies. It actually bucked the trend of spending a shit load on talented actors by going for B and C-listers (of that period). The most amazing thing about the movie is that Hugh Jackman was a last minute replacement and managed to pull it off.
Phat Michael
Banned
Exactly. I actually like Snyder films - i hope the Nolan thing isnt true.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Stewart was still very highly respected. McKellan, of course. Halle Berry was a major star. Yeah, they also had a WWE wrestler and Darth Maul, but I still feel like you're kinda unfairly denigrating the film by using today's context as opposed to 2000-2005's, and even if you were using the 2000-2005 context, I think you're being kinda unfair.
To further clarify: I only thought X-Men was an "okay" movie at the time. I still really like X-Men 2, but I don't want you to think I'm sticking up for it out of sentiment or some shit like that. I just really vividly remember that period of time when it comes to film industry goings-on.
Anyway - I do agree that Jackman surprised the living shit out of everyone. But I guess, in hindsight, that shouldn't be a surprise: He was the actor with the least expectation. Yeah, he's playing Wolverine, but most of us had never seen him in ANYTHING else beforehand, so it was easier to accept him AS Wolverine (provided he nail the part).
It's weird to think the part was Dougray Scott's to lose - which he did.
Same with Stuart Townsend as Aragorn.
Discotheque
Banned
lmao
Meh I thought 300 was ridiculously overrated, and Sucker Punch was terrible.
edit- ehhh edited for hyperbole.
Everything sucks according to the internet.
That's a perfect shit rollup. Is that real? lol
In 2008 and 2010 the internet collectively creamed its pants over TDK and Inception. Nolan was a god. But two years later he's the worst filmmaker, worst storyteller, and an utter hack.
Yup. Welcome to the net.
It's funny because I think that's exactly what you're doing. A lot of these actors have become more famous in the past decade but did anyone know who the hell James Marsters was in 2000? Patrick Stewart is probably known by more people as Professor X than he was ever known as Picard, which is a little sad but I blame the crap TNG movies for that. Halle Berry was famous but she was coming off a string of flops like BAPS and Bulworth.
I'd say X-Men had three genuinely good actors in it. Stewart, Jackman and McKellen. Outside of those three there really wasn't anything special about the cast, not that they had much to work with anyway. It made me laugh when Singer said he was going to fix things with Days of Future Past. Returning the series to being about Wolverine and his backup crew is the last thing the X-Men need.
And even though I liked Jackman I would have loved to see Russell Crowe as Wolverine but Fox cheaped out.
Greatest recasting of all time, slightly ahead of Michael J Fox taking over BttF. I think Viggo is the one thing I miss the most in the Hobbit. That dude has soul.
Ninja Scooter
Member
are you asking if that guy really took that shit?
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