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Edge #304 - The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild special

eXistor

Member
Feb 22, 2006
14,517
10
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39
Hell's Ditch
Why can't there be a vocal majority in favor of Skyward Sword? I know you're all out there.

You're just too damned quiet. Make some noise.
Dude, I've always been vocal in my support of SS. To me it's one of those things I literally can't understand and get frustrated when people say SS is a "terrible, unplayable game". It's such an obviously well designed game, has the best controls in the series, some of the best dungeons, lots of stuff to see and do (I don't think theres a game with as many little hidden secrets in its world as SS), wonderful soundtrack, fun NPS's, fantastic main town. I just don;t understand.

Do like Fi? No I don't like Fi. Did swimming have to be motion controlled? No, I'd prefer normal analog controls for that, same with the flying. Did we really have to fight The Imprisoned three times? Might be overdoing it, yeah. Would I have liked the overworld to be interconnected? Sure. This last thing is really the only major thing I'd like to see different, the others are minor at best.

That's my issues with the game. It's not my favorite in the series by a longshot, but it's a damn well designed game nontheless and a more than worthy entry in the series. I just really wish people would play the game again with a neutral mindset and appreciate the game for its obvious strengths of which there are many.
 

filly

Member
Jun 12, 2014
452
3
290
London
This all sounds great, hype is through the roof, I still can't get my head around that this game is going to run on a HANDHELD.
 

Gutss

Member
Jun 28, 2013
428
0
0
Philippines
Dude, I've always been vocal in my support of SS. To me it's one of those things I literally can't understand and get frustrated when people say SS is a "terrible, unplayable game". It's such an obviously well designed game, has the best controls in the series, some of the best dungeons, lots of stuff to see and do (I don't think theres a game with as many little hidden secrets in its world as SS), wonderful soundtrack, fun NPS's, fantastic main town. I just don;t understand.

Do like Fi? No I don't like Fi. Did swimming have to be motion controlled? No, I'd prefer normal analog controls for that, same with the flying. Did we really have to fight The Imprisoned three times? Might be overdoing it, yeah. Would I have liked the overworld to be interconnected? Sure. This last thing is really the only major thing I'd like to see different, the others are minor at best.

That's my issues with the game. It's not my favorite in the series by a longshot, but it's a damn well designed game nontheless and a more than worthy entry in the series. I just really wish people would play the game again with a neutral mindset and appreciate the game for its obvious strengths of which there are many.
You cant blame them,Gamers today are whiners, intead of adopting to the game the developer makes is gone.
 

G.ZZZ

Member
Sep 12, 2013
6,632
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0
You cant blame them,Gamers today are whiners, intead of adopting to the game the developer makes is gone.
Yeah that must be it, not that the game is an absurd slog to play through and never respect your time.
Start SS and OoT back to back and it's such a stark difference.
 

Pyroblazer

Member
Sep 6, 2016
108
0
0
Or it could make you want to go out and find more good gear to replace the old?

Using a weapon in breath of the wild is a strategic choice. The Game expects you to have the 4 main types of weapons at most moments. You're not going to just use one and stick to it like in Dark Souls, the game balanced around using everything in Link's Tool kit.
I don't know. I don't even disagree with you about the strategic choice, it's interesting.
But If you get a super version of your weapon at some point, do you not want to keep it? Maybe the best or one of the best weapons in the game. It's for sure an interesting concept in the beginning, but at some point I probably want to keep the best weapons. It was a bit similiar in SS. I liked how yo needed to parry well to keep your shield less damaged, but at some point I was happy to get the shield who couldn't be destroyed as a special reward.
They haven't shown a lot about the crafting system, so there is hope I guess.
 

Discokuningas

Member
Oct 29, 2014
229
0
0
Skyward Sword is one of the best Zeldas. I don't know why it is so hated. It definitely deserved it's metascore in my opinion. Is it the motion controls? Or the so called linearity that isn't even there really? It just isn't as open world as many games at that time was in wolrd design. What I don't like about the game is some boring sections and sometimes Fi but that is greatly exaggerated. There were couple unnecessary motion controls also but nothing major and the controls were great overall. Highlights in the game were story, puzzles everywhere, not just dungeons, upgradeable weapons and stuff and some Majoras Mask lite systems for side quests.
 

Nightengale

Member
Jun 12, 2013
21,443
0
500
I think witcher 3 is overrated, its strength is the story and the beautiful open world, the gameplay is rather simplistic. Gameplay is what matters, Zelda is magnitudes so much more complex than witcher 3 I don't even think its a fair comparison.
Both games are also, from the looks of all the previews, literally on the opposite end of open-world spectrum.

TW3 is the most well-crafted open world game, where its narrative, story and curation of all its world elements makes a world feel alive like a fantasy novel that sucks you in.

BoTW otoh, sounds basically like a MGS3 that was built with the sensibilities, technology and maturity of MGSV. A masterful layering of game systems, mechanics and elements of game-design that seem superfluous at first glance, but come together design-wise in all forms, and don't feel like any part of it was cheapened out.
 

Kissenkopf

Banned
Feb 2, 2013
2,237
0
0
Mein Land
Yeah that must be it, not that the game is an absurd slog to play through and never respect your time.
Start SS and OoT back to back and it's such a stark difference.
Gamers today forget what is bad game design and what is good game design which let them come out of their comfort zone. And I don't just mean Skyward Sword in this regard. As soon some things are changed in game series gamers are crying that they want the old system back. And when nothing is changed they cry why they got alwqys the same and the series is not evolving. Look at Uncharted 4: they decided to make the story a little bit more serious and paced the game sometimes a little bit slower. I know exactly how people wanted that in the series after TLoU but when it finally happend everybody screamed "bad pacing!!! Why do we need slow party like in TLoU! I want my Uncharted back!!!". Gamers are never happy.
Good example is Doom. Everybody hated Doom 3 but when Doom 2016 finally launched everybody loved it...at first. Then the people came and said they loved the tensiom of Doom 3 and want the horror back. You never make everone happy but that those who dont like a change need everybody to know how much they HATE the new direction is just awful. Why not just shut up once in a while? Write a mail to the developer, go out and demonstrate but don't say that your opinion is so important that you need to say how much you disliked a game in every fucking post in a thread for that game.
Oh and I dont think you are such a guy but that there are many of them in general.
 

Pyroblazer

Member
Sep 6, 2016
108
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Skyward Sword is one of the best Zeldas. I don't know why it is so hated. It definitely deserved it's metascore in my opinion. Is it the motion controls? Or the so called linearity that isn't even there really? It just isn't as open world as many games at that time was in wolrd design. What I don't like about the game is some boring sections and sometimes Fi but that is greatly exaggerated. There were couple unnecessary motion controls also but nothing major and the controls were great overall. Highlight in the game were story, puzzles everywhere, not just dungeons, upgradeable weapons and stuff and some Majoras Mask lite systems for side quests.
Controls are fine, the absymal world isn't. I want to explore things in Zelda, the barren sky wasn't enough. Also it's not fun to go in the same areas again and again to do some fetch quest. The areas aren't even interesting except the great desert. It's a 25 hours game stretched to 50 hours with stuff like go through the first dungeon one more time to find some water, fight against that ugly thing 3 times which was already a shit fight the first time, lose your whole equipment and get it back because we needed 2 more hours for this game, collect some notes for the dragons and of course those 3 trails, which I liked to be fair.
They should have cut it down to 2 visits for both dungeons and the trials (forest should be under the water before the trial and already in the 2nd visit). Fight the Imprisoned only 2 times and remove the annoying rest and then back to the final dungeon in the sky. I would have enjoyed the game much more that way and it would feel less repetitive. It still wouldn't be flawless with awful Fi and the segmented level design of the world which killed every exploration, but the pacing problems would be gone. A shorter game would have been better here.

That said I still like SS, when it's great, it really is great. But in a lot of moments you also have to ask yourself how could design choices like that happen in a Zelda game similiar to the absymal main temple in PH
 

Discokuningas

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Oct 29, 2014
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Controls are fine, the absymal world isn't. I want to explore things in Zelda, the barren sky wasn't enough. Also it's not fun to go in the same areas again and again to do some fetch quest. The areas aren't even interesting except the great desert. It's a 25 hours game stretched to 50 hours with stuff like go through the first dungeon one more time to find some water, fight against that ugly thing 3 times which was already a shit fight the first time, lose your whole equipment and get it back because we needed 2 more hours for this game, collect some notes for the dragons and of course those 3 trails, which I liked to be fair.
They should have cut it down to 2 visits for both dungeons and the trials (forest should be under the water before the trial and already in the 2nd visit). Fight the Imprisoned only 2 times and remove the annoying rest and then back to the final dungeon in the sky. I would have enjoyed the game much more that way and it would feel less repetitive. It still wouldn't be flawless with awful Fi and the segmented level design of the world which killed every exploration, but the pacing problems would be gone. A shorter game would have been better here.

That said I still like SS, when it's great, it really is great. But in a lot of moments you also have to ask yourself how could design choices like that happen in a Zelda game similiar to the absymal main temple in PH
I would say most of your concerns are pretty valid. For me and many others some isn't really an issue but there definitely are valid concerns. The game really felt streched at times which makes it boring at times. But I can't really think anything that is abysmal in the game for me. But yeah, maybe I can understand some of the problems people have with the game.
 

GiantBreadbug

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Sep 18, 2012
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365
Why can't there be a vocal majority in favor of Skyward Sword? I know you're all out there.

You're just too damned quiet. Make some noise.

I'm here!

I think SS is beautiful and pretty much is the culmination of Zelda games before it. I have plenty of issues with the game, but honestly it's probably my favorite 3D Zelda for what it gets right.
 

NewGame

Banned
May 26, 2013
6,969
2
0
What kind of logic is this?
This is not how this has ever worked and this issue is part of why I keep harping on about how dumb scores are.
If you score one game 10/10 and another 10/10 I expect to play both of them 10 years later and both of them hold up as their aforementioned 10/10ness. For some weird reason I'm under the impression that Skyward Sword will struggle to be a 7/10 and BotW will age the same way Zelda 1 did, a timeless classic.

Look at something like Uncharted: Drake's Fortune or Halo 2, which got call the critical darlings of their platforms and had ten o' tens thrown at them all over the place, would you honestly play those games these days over the myriad of others?

I can't believe how myopic a view people have of games, are they just hype bubbles meant to burst and fade like some sort of firework before fading into nothing but smoke and the smell of burnt sulphur?
 

OrbitalBeard

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Jun 2, 2013
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If you score one game 10/10 and another 10/10 I expect to play both of them 10 years later and both of them hold up as their aforementioned 10/10ness. For some weird reason I'm under the impression that Skyward Sword will struggle to be a 7/10 and BotW will age the same way Zelda 1 did, a timeless classic.

Look at something like Uncharted: Drake's Fortune or Halo 2, which got call the critical darlings of their platforms and had ten o' tens thrown at them all over the place, would you honestly play those games these days over the myriad of others?

I can't believe how myopic a view people have of games, are they just hype bubbles meant to burst and fade like some sort of firework before fading into nothing but smoke and the smell of burnt sulphur?
Not all 10s are created equal. Skyward Sword can be a 10, Breath of the Wild can be a 10, and one of them can be better than the other. Edge also doesn't consist of a single reviewer. Different people have different opinions on different games.

Also, I don't believe Drake's Fortune received nearly as many 10s as you think.
 
Feb 22, 2011
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Skyward Sword is a pretty clever game.

You just can't imagine how big the areas are in fact, and revisiting them to discover that there was something there before your eyes that you just couldn't notice blew my mind.
 

NewGame

Banned
May 26, 2013
6,969
2
0
Not all 10s are created equal. Skyward Sword can be a 10, Breath of the Wild can be a 10, and one of them can be better than the other. Edge also doesn't consist of a single reviewer. Different people have different opinions on different games.
Okay so would you display Isle of the Dead by Arnold Böcklin (1827–1901) next to Convergence by Jackson Pollock (1952)? Because if you look up Edges list of 10/10 games there they'll be.
 

OrbitalBeard

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Jun 2, 2013
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Okay so would you display Isle of the Dead by Arnold Böcklin (1827–1901) next to Convergence by Jackson Pollock (1952)? Because if you look up Edges list of 10/10 games there they'll be.
Man, I wasn't expecting that sort of comparison. But sure.
 

jariw

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Oct 14, 2014
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I don't know. I don't even disagree with you about the strategic choice, it's interesting.
But If you get a super version of your weapon at some point, do you not want to keep it? Maybe the best or one of the best weapons in the game. It's for sure an interesting concept in the beginning, but at some point I probably want to keep the best weapons. It was a bit similiar in SS. I liked how yo needed to parry well to keep your shield less damaged, but at some point I was happy to get the shield who couldn't be destroyed as a special reward.
They haven't shown a lot about the crafting system, so there is hope I guess.
The review in EDGE actually covers very much about weapons and how you can handle them. It seems like: if you really want to keep a weapon, take care of the weapon and improve its stats so it doesn't break.
 

meppi

Member
May 15, 2005
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This thread inspired me to play SS for the first time since 2011 and it plays as beautifully as I remembered.
Yeah, the art-style is too gorgeous for me to put in words.
The many pastel colours combined with how everything from grass and rocks to walls and stone floors all seem to be made of woven patches is just so unique.
I really hope that one day soon we'll see a HD remaster that gives it's art style the resolution it deserves to shine even more.

That's like pointing to a video of a car crashing while driving over an oil spill in a rain storm and saying "See!?! The car is made unstable and can't drive well!"

Some Grade A cherry picking, dude.
Indeed.
A building full of people sporting phones, laptops, etc, with countless wireless signals all around, is really the best example to show how that the game's controls don't function correctly. smh.
It's not due to interference mind, it's just bad programming/hardware!
 

PrimeBeef

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Aug 19, 2016
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Or it could make you want to go out and find more good gear to replace the old?

Using a weapon in breath of the wild is a strategic choice. The Game expects you to have the 4 main types of weapons at most moments. You're not going to just use one and stick to it like in Dark Souls, the game balanced around using everything in Link's Tool kit.
This. I've said it, others have said it, people should changer thier perception of weapons in this game to ammo. If you run out of ammo in a game that utilizes guns you can use that gun anymore even if it is your favorite gun in the game. It is rendered useless untill you find more ammo for it. Just like ammo in those games, weapons are being constantly found, so you can keep using your prefered weapom type.

Also like in gun games, each weapon type serves a purpose and is better used in different situations. You may prefer a shotgun but it is not the best option in a sniper segment is it? You may prefer a sword, but it is not the best option for taking out skeletons.

Change your perception of weapons and it makes a lot more sense going forward in BotW.
 

Wolfgang Jr

Banned
Apr 21, 2011
3,260
1,090
910
Yeah, the art-style is too gorgeous for me to put in words.
The many pastel colours combined with how everything from grass and rocks to walls and stone floors all seem to be made of woven patches is just so unique.
I really hope that one day soon we'll see a HD remaster that gives it's art style the resolution it deserves to shine even more.
4K in CEMU on day 1.
Hopefully.
 

GRW810

Member
Sep 30, 2012
3,159
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0
England
Dude, I've always been vocal in my support of SS. To me it's one of those things I literally can't understand and get frustrated when people say SS is a "terrible, unplayable game". It's such an obviously well designed game, has the best controls in the series, some of the best dungeons, lots of stuff to see and do (I don't think theres a game with as many little hidden secrets in its world as SS), wonderful soundtrack, fun NPS's, fantastic main town. I just don;t understand.

Do like Fi? No I don't like Fi. Did swimming have to be motion controlled? No, I'd prefer normal analog controls for that, same with the flying. Did we really have to fight The Imprisoned three times? Might be overdoing it, yeah. Would I have liked the overworld to be interconnected? Sure. This last thing is really the only major thing I'd like to see different, the others are minor at best.

That's my issues with the game. It's not my favorite in the series by a longshot, but it's a damn well designed game nontheless and a more than worthy entry in the series. I just really wish people would play the game again with a neutral mindset and appreciate the game for its obvious strengths of which there are many.
I'm torn with SS. The gameplay is incredible and I thought the motion controls worked brilliantly. The story and the characters were deep. The puzzles were clever. I really liked the beetle item.

However Fi was incredibly irritating and, worse, the world was terribly closed rather than open, which was a crying shame.

SS is so divisive because it depends what is important to you from LoZ games. I rank it lowly because exploration was non-existent but it's still a good game on it's own merits.
 

Pyroblazer

Member
Sep 6, 2016
108
0
0
The review in EDGE actually covers very much about weapons and how you can handle them. It seems like: if you really want to keep a weapon, take care of the weapon and improve its stats so it doesn't break.
Ok that's something at least. If you can improve it to some point where it doesn't take much damage I could live with that. Is there a way like in SS to fight the right way to avoid damage on weapons? Or will they take damage when I use them every time?
 

krumble

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Jan 5, 2010
855
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555
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Used to be a completionist subscriber of Edge from launch issue through to digital from 2010 up until Jan 2015.. always valued and enjoyed the magazine, but in the modern world didn't have time to properly read the mag to justify the cost anymore...
Just picked up this issue to help with my launch hype 😬😬
 
Sep 29, 2013
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All this dungeons talk is making me feel a bit down at what could have been :(

I've been anxious about this aspect since E3 2016, wondering about the validity of it.

I'd be okay with 4 dungeons if they were complex and resembled older labyrinth styled puzzles. I really don't care for the shrines at all and will possibly feel bitter about their inclusion if it has come at the cost of traditional dungeons.

Oh well. The open world aspect sounds great and everything for people into that but I'm not really too fussed about open world games in general. I guess with my expectations and hype slightly diminished for this game perhaps it won't hurt as much when I play it as I'll know what to expect but I just know I'm always going to be questioning, if only.
 

Flintty

Gold Member
Apr 24, 2014
3,893
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815
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All this talk about Edge reminded me how I used to love and sit reading it and other gaming magazines. Because of this I went out to try and find the latest issue and found it (the last one left) in my local WH Smith's. Still a great read, I think I'll get back in the habit.

What's the on sale date for edge?
Next issue is 2nd March.
 

Ghgghggh

Banned
Aug 21, 2016
129
0
0
This. I've said it, others have said it, people should changer thier perception of weapons in this game to ammo. If you run out of ammo in a game that utilizes guns you can use that gun anymore even if it is your favorite gun in the game. It is rendered useless untill you find more ammo for it. Just like ammo in those games, weapons are being constantly found, so you can keep using your prefered weapom type.

Also like in gun games, each weapon type serves a purpose and is better used in different situations. You may prefer a shotgun but it is not the best option in a sniper segment is it? You may prefer a sword, but it is not the best option for taking out skeletons.

Change your perception of weapons and it makes a lot more sense going forward in BotW.

I agree with you. Also, the point of weapons degradation is to increase the survival aspect and to make sure fighting and exploration are always rewarded.

Another way to look at weapons in this game is to think of them like experience points. Albeit impermanent experience points. The more you fight and the more you explore the more you are rewarded. As you fight tougher enemies, you will be rewarded with better loot and weapons as if Link has gained more experience points. If you continue to advance in the difficulty of battles you will gain further strength with stronger weapons. Like a souls game, advancement can be taken away from you, because weapons degrade and so you have to keep moving.


I will probably enjoy this system much more then weapons renting from LBW.
 

kunonabi

Member
Dec 2, 2010
17,877
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895
Yeah that must be it, not that the game is an absurd slog to play through and never respect your time.
Start SS and OoT back to back and it's such a stark difference.

OoT is the biggest slog there is in the entire series after Wind Waker.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Apr 25, 2009
17,350
1
0
You haven't even played the game yet. Relax
Exactly, if you may draw a conclusion from reviews and previews it may only be positive to not disturb the hype train.

If you draw a different conclusion from the same source of information then RELAX, you haven't played it yet.

Hype culture, son.
 

Caelus

Member
Jun 19, 2011
4,231
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565
22
Exactly, if you may draw a conclusion from reviews and previews it may only be positive to not disturb the hype train.

If you draw a different conclusion from the same source of information then RELAX, you haven't played it yet.

Hype culture, son.
Don't be daft, saying "what could have been" is drawing a conclusion that can only be substantiated by playing the game, along the statement "this beats every other game this year and the past two years". The review itself doesn't frame the new dungeons as a detriment to the game either.
 

xtianmarq

Member
Jul 3, 2012
109
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The review talked about 'build-ups' to dungeons, which I assume are story based missions related to the different Hylian tribes and are probably going to be as long as the dungeons themselves. We've had build ups to dungeons in past Zeldas before but it seems they're extending that approach since the overworld can have just as much physics-based puzzles as a dungeon.

Again, it's a fine criticism to air if one is very particular about what constitutes a proper dungeon experience, but it's fair to say they've chosen to break from that formula.



There are more story-heavy areas in the game related to the dungeons which are under embargo along with villages.

This is what I liked about Skyward Sword - each overworld area before the dungeons had several missions, puzzles and challenges that needed to be solved before even entering the dungeon. If they are taking this approach and running with it I'll be very happy with only 4-6 dungeons.