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Edge #304 - The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild special

phanphare

Banned
Aug 21, 2013
22,649
0
415
This is what I liked about Skyward Sword - each overworld area before the dungeons had several missions, puzzles and challenges that needed to be solved before even entering the dungeon. If they are taking this approach and running with it I'll be very happy with only 4-6 dungeons.
it sounds like they expanded on this approach and made the entire overworld with that kind of stuff in mind

it's funny because for how much of a radical shift this feels like for the Zelda series it seems to also take so many different things from previous games and expand upon them

the overworld puzzle solving and traversal of skyward sword, the different weapons and move sets from wind waker, the upgrading and resource collecting from skyward sword, the go anywhere but you might get rekt from zelda 1, the few tools that the game knows you always have like albw, the large open world of wind waker except with a shitton more land, the npc routines like MM, etc. etc. etc.

if they nail the tone, the lore, and the story this could be the culmination of the entire Zelda series
 

Majukun

Member
Jun 19, 2009
11,929
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970
not gonna read the review since it seems to be kinda spoilerish..i'm trying to keep my media blackout on the game.
 

CrazyHorse

Junior Member
Jan 24, 2014
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0
Why did Edge have to put spoilers in their review? I didn't want to know what they said about Gannon. For me even the premise of the story is a spoiler. Oh well life doesn't end with spoilers.
 

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
Jun 7, 2004
21,120
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0
This is what I liked about Skyward Sword - each overworld area before the dungeons had several missions, puzzles and challenges that needed to be solved before even entering the dungeon. If they are taking this approach and running with it I'll be very happy with only 4-6 dungeons.
In theory that was interesting, but it ultimately ended up being a linear string of only occasionally creative trials to endure. Not all of the pre-dungeon puzzles were well crafted, and it sapped away any real freedom the player was afforded at all as the game forced you through constant hoops with little deviation or thoughtful experimentation.

It isn't the first Zelda to attempt this though as Link's Awakening and the other handheld titles pretty much require various trials to complete in a rigid order to reach the dungeons as well. Often forcing minigames, fetching, or hide/seek trials the player must endure as part of a scripted progression.

Some really love this approach, I never really cared for it. Every player experiences the game identically, and it never fosters any real unique discussion(outside of providing solutions to the same puzzles and trials we all endure). It's part of what Zelda has been missing for decades and I am hopeful the shift here truly brings back the feeling of embarking on an interactive adventure that feels more individualized and not pigeon-holed.
 

atr0cious

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Jan 15, 2014
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All the recent Skyward Sword talk just really has me thinking about an HD remake for the switch. The hd rumble alone would turn the game in to a show piece, with all the different little tools and items. Add a superior control scheme enabling the ability to at the least allow left or right handed play and an even better gyro and you got yourself a stew. Drop in some QoL like seamless loading for a more connected world feel and it's a GotY contender again.
 

brandonh83

Banned
Jun 26, 2005
69,633
1
0
37
All the recent Skyward Sword talk just really has me thinking about an HD remake for the switch. The hd rumble alone would turn the game in to a show piece, with all the different little tools and items. Add a superior control scheme enabling the ability to at the least allow left or right handed play and an even better gyro and you got yourself a stew. Drop in some QoL like seamless loading for a more connected world feel and it's a GotY contender again.
Even without those improvements just making it HD and not the washed out sub HD resolution the Wii provided would be major.
 

RuhRo

Member
Jun 22, 2013
394
124
445
Yeah that must be it, not that the game is an absurd slog to play through and never respect your time.
Start SS and OoT back to back and it's such a stark difference.
The fact that Fujibayashi is behind the two worst Zelda games ever (SS and Phantom Hourglass) makes me concerned about his involvement in Breath of the Wild. Both had pacing problems, aggressive padding, intrusive handholding, and an over-reliance on fussy control gimmicks.
 

KingBroly

Banned
Mar 18, 2015
23,759
1
0
Even without those improvements just making it HD and not the washed out sub HD resolution the Wii provided would be major.
Vertical Banding was a bigger issue for Skyward Sword. If you turned up the saturation on SS, it'd look worse and less water-color-y
 

Caelus

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Jun 19, 2011
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The fact that Fujibayashi is behind the two worst Zelda games ever (SS and Phantom Hourglass) makes me concerned about his involvement in Breath of the Wild. Both had pacing problems, aggressive padding, intrusive handholding, and an over-reliance on fussy control gimmicks.
He's also the director of the Minish Cap and the Oracle Games, and we know Breath of the Wild doesn't have fussy control gimmicks (unless you consider the optional gyro fussy) and intrusive handholding. SS and Phantom Hourglass being the "worst of the series" doesn't cancel out the legitimately good game design those games had, even with their individual issues.
 

xtianmarq

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Jul 3, 2012
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In theory that was interesting, but it ultimately ended up being a linear string of only occasionally creative trials to endure. Not all of the pre-dungeon puzzles were well crafted, and it sapped away any real freedom the player was afforded at all as the game forced you through constant hoops with little deviation or thoughtful experimentation.

It isn't the first Zelda to attempt this though as Link's Awakening and the other handheld titles pretty much require various trials to complete in a rigid order to reach the dungeons as well. Often forcing minigames, fetching, or hide/seek trials the player must endure as part of a scripted progression.

Some really love this approach, I never really cared for it. Every player experiences the game identically, and it never fosters any real unique discussion(outside of providing solutions to the same puzzles and trials we all endure). It's part of what Zelda has been missing for decades and I am hopeful the shift here truly brings back the feeling of embarking on an interactive adventure that feels more individualized and not pigeon-holed.

You bring up some very valid points. Much of the scripted progression in previous games was undoubtedly there to help structure or guide the overall narrative. It does sound like they are upending the tea table with BOTW - there is a much freer approach to solving puzzles, game progression than we have ever seen before.
 

MoonFrog

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Jul 25, 2015
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Star Fox was a good game, but I'd call it at high 7s, low 8s personally. Needed more levels and arcade route variety. Couple that with a debatable (but really not as bad as it's made out to be) control scheme and you've got a good not great action game.

Happened to be exactly the sort of game I felt like at that moment so I was quite happy with it.
 

Eolz

Member
Jun 1, 2014
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Don't think it was posted, but a great final quote from their other article (Post Script) on the game after the review:
We've tried, over the years, to get Nintendo executives to talk about other companies' work. The house of Mario has long cultivated the impression that it's profoundly uninterested in what goes outside its own walls. Breath of the Wild producer Eiji Aonuma admits that younger members of the team play lots of games, and studied other open worlds in preparation.
Yet this is no copycat work. Rather, the design teams have studied the competition, identified the genre's staples, its peccadilloes and its problems, and addressed them with the same flair that goes into a Mario or linear Zelda game. The results are breathtaking.
(not posting the rest, which is obviously way longer etc. Get the magazine)
 

phanphare

Banned
Aug 21, 2013
22,649
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415
Don't think it was posted, but a great final quote from their other article (Post Script) on the game after the review:


(not posting the rest, which is obviously way longer etc. Get the magazine)
shhhhheeeeeiiiiiitttttt

fucking aonuma showing up fashionably late to the party doing the vince mcmahon strut on the way in
 

Scoops

Banned
Jun 21, 2010
1,944
1
0
Tampa/Gainesville
Previous Edge 10s for comparison:

Super Mario 64 deserved
Gran Turismo no
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time deserved
Halo: Combat Evolved deserved
Half-Life 2 deserved
Halo 3 borderline deserved
The Orange Box deserved
Super Mario Galaxy deserved
Grand Theft Auto IV no
LittleBigPlanet hell no
Bayonetta borderline deserved
Super Mario Galaxy 2 deserved
Rock Band 3 no
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword no
The Last of Us deserved
Grand Theft Auto V deserved
Bayonetta 2 deserved
Bloodborne borderline deserved
How I would rate the 10's in bold.
 

vareon

Member
Feb 5, 2007
12,797
0
0
Not anywhere
Why did Edge have to put spoilers in their review? I didn't want to know what they said about Gannon. For me even the premise of the story is a spoiler. Oh well life doesn't end with spoilers.
For you, but not for everyone else especially Nintendo. Not everyone is already sold on "new Zelda!" announcement so they have to balance between teasing people with information and keeping what people should discover themselves.
 

Orniletter

Banned
Nov 20, 2013
5,196
1
435
The fact that Fujibayashi is behind the two worst Zelda games ever (SS and Phantom Hourglass) makes me concerned about his involvement in Breath of the Wild. Both had pacing problems, aggressive padding, intrusive handholding, and an over-reliance on fussy control gimmicks.
Fujibajashi had no involvement with PH's actual game design, he was a writer on the project.
PH and ST are Daiki Iwamoto's games.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Feb 16, 2014
17,263
0
0
32
Arlington Texas
Put me in this camp. Skyward Sword gives zero effs about your time and feels like it consists of at least 40% repeated content. It's the absolute nadir of the series and the reason it needed a return to form. I replayed both recently and Twilight Princess, which has its own pacing issues, holds up far better.

There's also a nearly complete dearth of exploration and side quests in SS, which robs it of the reason I like Zelda.

The fact that Fujibayashi is behind the two worst Zelda games ever (SS and Phantom Hourglass) makes me concerned about his involvement in Breath of the Wild. Both had pacing problems, aggressive padding, intrusive handholding, and an over-reliance on fussy control gimmicks.
Fujibayashi was also the director for the Capcom Zeldas people rave about as being better than most other Nintendo in-house Zeldas. He's made good games and a couple of divisive games. Balances out.
 

RK128

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Jan 6, 2014
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it sounds like they expanded on this approach and made the entire overworld with that kind of stuff in mind

it's funny because for how much of a radical shift this feels like for the Zelda series it seems to also take so many different things from previous games and expand upon them

the overworld puzzle solving and traversal of skyward sword, the different weapons and move sets from wind waker, the upgrading and resource collecting from skyward sword, the go anywhere but you might get rekt from zelda 1, the few tools that the game knows you always have like albw, the large open world of wind waker except with a shitton more land, the npc routines like MM, etc. etc. etc.

if they nail the tone, the lore, and the story this could be the culmination of the entire Zelda series
I got this impression after listening to GameXplain's video preview. They commented on the Majora's Mask styled NPC's and darker toned story, which reminds me of how Twilight Princes mixed & matched elements from other Zeldas.

-Dark World from A Link to the Past
-Transforming from Majora's Mask
-Art Style form OoT
-Facial Expressions from Wind Waker

Where Twilight Princess felt like 'Best of' take on mixing & matching elements from the series past, Breath of the Wild is like 'a best of' collection of elements but heavily expanding upon them.

If that really is the case......this could hands-down be the best Zelda in the entire series. While I'm not hyped (have no means to play this, as I'm not getting a Switch for a while (at least until 3D Mario) nor do I own a Wii U), I'm eager to see the final response the game gets from critics later this week.
 

Randomizer

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Dec 8, 2008
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Fujibayashi was also the director for the Capcom Zeldas people rave about as being better than most other Nintendo in-house Zeldas. He's made good games and a couple of divisive games. Balances out.
Nobody says that but crazy people. The Oracle games and Minish Cap are good but Link's Awakening and A Link to The Past are much better games.

I've loved all of Fujibayashi's directed games expect Minish Cap, which while good felt somewhat lacklustre. Skyward Sword is a flawed masterpiece though, much like The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. Each has their issues particularly when it comes to pacing and content.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Feb 16, 2014
17,263
0
0
32
Arlington Texas
Nobody says that but crazy people. The Oracle games and Minish Cap are good but Link's Awakening and A Link to The Past are much better games.

I've loved all of Fujibayashi's directed games expect Minish Cap, which while good felt somewhat lacklustre. Skyward Sword is a flawed masterpiece though, much like The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. Each has their issues particularly when it comes to pacing and content.
Crazies were out in full force for a decade or so now. People were wanting Capcom to make another Zelda and heavily doubted Aonuma and others of the Zelda team to ever make a "good" Zelda. Some were even asking Koizumi to return since he did Awakening.
 

wmlk

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Aug 7, 2013
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Crazies were out in full force for a good few decades now. People were wanting Capcom to make another Zelda and heavily doubted Aonuma and others of the Zelda team to ever make a "good" Zelda. Some were even asking Koizumi to return since he did Awakening.
Wow. The gall of these people, wanting Yoshiaki Koizumi to work on another Zelda game!
 

wmlk

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Aug 7, 2013
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I want him to make another one regardless, but most of it was out of spite because they didn't like Aonuma.
I've played less of Koizumi's games (only Galaxy, really), but his body of work speaks for itself. I think a lot of people prefer Koizumi just based on that, and I wouldn't blame them.
 

Wedzi

Banned
Jan 19, 2016
1,491
7
0
Previous Edge 10s for comparison:

Super Mario 64
Gran Turismo
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Halo: Combat Evolved
Half-Life 2
Halo 3
The Orange Box
Super Mario Galaxy
Grand Theft Auto IV
LittleBigPlanet
Bayonetta
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Rock Band 3
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
The Last of Us
Grand Theft Auto V
Bayonetta 2
Bloodborne
Hmm really besides GTA 4, LBP and Skyward Sword I agree with most of these. Hype rising. Too bad I won't be able to get a Switch till Fall but I await it with great anticipation.
 

Dark Cloud

Member
Feb 2, 2016
12,012
1
295
I want him to make another one regardless, but most wanted it out of spite because they didn't like Aonuma.
I definitely don't want Koizumi near Zelda. Does he even make games anymore? He sounds like he's moved up and doesn't do director roles anymore.
 

Dark Cloud

Member
Feb 2, 2016
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He's currently producing this small game called Super Mario Odyssey.
I meant as a Director.

He hasn't directed a game in 10 years (Super Mario Galaxy).
Damn I didn't realize it was that long.

Koizumi is the best mind at Nintendo right now though.
Trust me he doesn't get the fame he deserves. I just feel like Zelda is great where it's at. I mean Super Mario Odyssey he's not directing either. I like seeing these new Directors come in and do Mario and Zelda good.

I'd rather Koizumi make new IP's at this stage of his career because he's so damn good! I want to see how amazing of a game he could come up with because to me he could make a brand new IP that rivals Mario and Zelda.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Feb 16, 2014
17,263
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0
32
Arlington Texas
To be fair, even in a producer role Koizumi can still offer a lot much like Aonuma is doing for Breath of the Wild. Example with Aonuma talking about how story is handled in Breath of the Wild and wants us to experience it etc.
 

Randomizer

Member
Dec 8, 2008
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I definitely don't want Koizumi near Zelda. Does he even make games anymore? He sounds like he's moved up and doesn't do director roles anymore.
Wierd that you wouldn't want him near Zelda. The guy was involved with most of the classics. But yeah he is too high up now to be directing titles it seems. He is the head of all Switch related development and Deputy Manager of Nintendo EPD (Entertainment and Planing Division).

Edit:
I meant as a Director.


Damn I didn't realize it was that long.



Trust me he doesn't get the fame he deserves. I just feel like Zelda is great where it's at. I mean Super Mario Odyssey he's not directing either. I like seeing these new Directors come in and do Mario and Zelda good.

I'd rather Koizumi make new IP's at this stage of his career because he's so damn good! I want to see how amazing of a game he could come up with because to me he could make a brand new IP that rivals Mario and Zelda.
Ah ok that makes sense.
 

JasonMCG

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Apr 10, 2007
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All the recent Skyward Sword talk just really has me thinking about an HD remake for the switch. The hd rumble alone would turn the game in to a show piece, with all the different little tools and items. Add a superior control scheme enabling the ability to at the least allow left or right handed play and an even better gyro and you got yourself a stew. Drop in some QoL like seamless loading for a more connected world feel and it's a GotY contender again.
I think HD Skyward Sword is a gimme....and I hope I'm right. SS gets a lot of flack for some unfair reasons, but it's right up with some of the best in the series. Personally, I think it's a Top 3 Zelda title behind Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time.
 

JehutyRunner

Banned
Jul 10, 2012
4,495
1
0
Derry, Northern Ireland
What should have gotten a ten in my eyes.

Previous Edge 10s for comparison:

Super Mario 64 - yes
Gran Turismo 1 no, GT3 should have though
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - not played enough to give opinion on but its influence over the years means the ten was justified
Halo: Combat Evolved - no
Half-Life 2 - yes
Halo 3 - yes
The Orange Box - yes
Super Mario Galaxy - yes
Grand Theft Auto IV - yes, sue me
LittleBigPlanet - at the time, yes, in hindsight, no / still a great game though
Bayonetta - no
Super Mario Galaxy 2 - yes
Rock Band 3 - yes
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - no
The Last of Us - yes
Grand Theft Auto V - yes
Bayonetta 2 - yes
Bloodbornne - not played enough of it to rate it
 

phanphare

Banned
Aug 21, 2013
22,649
0
415
I got this impression after listening to GameXplain's video preview. They commented on the Majora's Mask styled NPC's and darker toned story, which reminds me of how Twilight Princes mixed & matched elements from other Zeldas.

-Dark World from A Link to the Past
-Transforming from Majora's Mask
-Art Style form OoT
-Facial Expressions from Wind Waker

Where Twilight Princess felt like 'Best of' take on mixing & matching elements from the series past, Breath of the Wild is like 'a best of' collection of elements but heavily expanding upon them.

If that really is the case......this could hands-down be the best Zelda in the entire series. While I'm not hyped (have no means to play this, as I'm not getting a Switch for a while (at least until 3D Mario) nor do I own a Wii U), I'm eager to see the final response the game gets from critics later this week.
yeah it sounds like it could be the culmination of the Zelda series tbh. bringing that original Zelda 1 formula into 3D and applying everything learned from each subsequent game but also fleshing all that stuff out as well.