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Emmanuel Macron refuses any renegociations of the Paris accord

Octavianus

Banned
Nov 23, 2014
4,961
0
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I'm starting to like this guy more and more. France did a good job electing him France, Europe and the world as a whole is lucky to have people like him and Merkel.
 

Mysterious

Banned
Oct 18, 2012
7,317
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Macron is center-right too. There aren't many american Democrats that would be considered on the left in Europe, no matter how much people like to say Bernie Sanders is "far left" (a lot of people don't even consider him "left" at all for our standards).

Trudeau is also centre. :)
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Jun 7, 2004
42,381
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Just keep in mind that Macron is still campaigning (kind of) and that Trump, just like Brexit, is currently seen as a boon for centrist politicians and parties across Europe. Time will tell if all his talk is just posturing or something more meaningful.

Either case, expect further division between America and the EU.
 

UnknownSpirit

Member
Jul 21, 2016
200
0
0
I like this guy a lot.

I'm hopefully that if Orange Turd gets defeated in 2020, that whoever takes over won't have that much international damage to clean up.

It's been said, but Hitler was elected democratically, only after did he change it into a Totalitarian government.
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Mar 31, 2005
11,820
0
1,310
36
Arlington, VA
Just keep in mind that Macron is still campaigning (kind of) and that Trump, just like Brexit, is currently seen as a boon for centrist politicians and parties across Europe. Time will tell if all his talk is just posturing or something more meaningful.

Either case, expect further division between America and the EU.

As an American I'm Team EU. It's the greatest political experiment of our age and only an ignorant of history fool would want it to fail.
 

Jasup

Member
Mar 5, 2007
6,023
0
0
Yurop
Hitler was elected. He was not democratically elected. A huge difference.

Mmm, yes he was democratically elected, he became the chancellor as a result of that last free election in 1932. I think you missed this on the second quote:
Federal elections were held in Germany on 5 March 1933. The 1933 poll was held after the Nazi seizure of power and the Reichstag fire, just six days before the election. Nazi stormtroopers had unleashed a campaign of violence against the Communist Party (KPD), left-wingers,[1]:317 trade unionists, the Social Democratic Party of Germany,[1] and the centre-right Catholic Centre Party.[1]:322

The 1933 election followed the previous year's two elections (July and November) and Hitler's appointment as Chancellor. In the months before the 1933 election, brownshirts and SS displayed "terror, repression and propaganda [...] across the land",[1]:339 and Nazi organizations "monitored" the vote process. In Prussia 50,000 members of the SS, SA and Stahlhelm were ordered to monitor the votes by acting Interior Minister Hermann Göring, as auxiliary police.[2]
Hitler was a Chancellor before the 1933 election and the vote not being democratic was due to his policies in office.
 

Camp Freddie

Member
Aug 15, 2012
1,899
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UK
I think Macron is a bit like Obama. A great statesman and orator, but held back by political divisions in senates/houses/assemblies.
I think he'll be a huge success in international politics, but less so domestically.
Unlike Obama, I think there is some hope that Macron can get bipartisan support for his proposals, but it will be difficult.
 

Mac_Lane

Member
Feb 4, 2010
1,292
0
750
I think Macron is a bit like Obama. A great statesman and orator, but held back by political divisions in senates/houses/assemblies.
I think he'll be a huge success in international politics, but less so domestically.
Unlike Obama, I think there is some hope that Macron can get bipartisan support for his proposals, but it will be difficult.

Well, he's likely to get an absolute majority in the National Assembly in two weeks, so he'll be able to govern effectively.
 

RPGCrazied

Member
Oct 14, 2007
39,340
654
1,345
Already a better leader then Trump and he's only been in office a month? I'm glad he is taking the mantle of leader of the world. Looks good on him. Plus it looks like he isn't going to be taking Trump's nonsense.
 

UrbanRats

Member
Jun 25, 2009
40,855
2
830
I think it's because Macron is what was standing between Europe and a disaster



So, his voice in this moment is something people want to hear as it's exactly what people were hoping for with his election.

I didn't know they were doing a manga adaptation of this whole shit show.
 

Violet_0

Banned
Jul 26, 2011
17,351
1
0
Already a better leader then Trump and he's only been in office a month? I'm glad he is taking the mantle of leader of the world. Looks good on him. Plus it looks like he isn't going to be taking Trump's nonsense.

if the position of "leader of the world" was entitled to wear a crown, I think we'd have enough contenders now to mimic a Game of Thrones
 

CelticKnight

Member
May 26, 2014
2,469
1
410
Cardiff, UK
I'm all for people putting Trump in his place but some people's hard-on for Macron is a little much. Move over Trudeau, you're chopped liver. There's a new guy in town!

Already a better leader then Trump and he's only been in office a month? I'm glad he is taking the mantle of leader of the world. Looks good on him. Plus it looks like he isn't going to be taking Trump's nonsense.

...
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Jun 7, 2004
42,381
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The only good thing to come from Trump's presidency is people finally realising how utterly stupid (nay: intellectually offensive) is the imaginary mantle of "leader of the free world".

Well, some people, at least.
 
Jun 6, 2013
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I'm all for people putting Trump in his place but some people's hard-on for Macron is a little much. Move over Trudeau, you're chopped liver. There's a new guy in town!
Sure, I get why you feel that way but, as a Brit, faced with May and Trump, I'll fucking embrace any world leader than doesn't come across like a complete tosser.

I think most of us are aware there's a level of hyperbole to everything we're saying but still, like plants deprived of sunlight, we've been deprived of political discourse we can say 'thank fuck for that' to and with something as massive as the Paris Agreement a lot of people feel very emotional.

I appreciate the cynicism but I don't really agree.
 

Camp Freddie

Member
Aug 15, 2012
1,899
0
0
UK
Well, he's likely to get an absolute majority in the National Assembly in two weeks, so he'll be able to govern effectively.

Good. I don't really understand the French parliamentary system, though I was told that assembly elections closely follow the presidential ones so they tend to have the same 'winner'.

Coming from the UK, the idea that a guy can just invent a new political party and win and absolute majority is hard to accept!

To get back to the OT:
I just read Obama's statement on Trump's withdrawal, which presumably preceeded Macron's.
Macron is directly responding to Obama with the lines about the American scientists, engineers and businessmen who have embraced a low carbon deal and have been betrayed by the Trump administration.

Clever boy (fuck, I am actually older than a head of state!). Good to see someone who doesn't rely on Fox news to keep informed about world affairs!
 

GAMEPROFF

Banned
Apr 15, 2013
33,306
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France and leading the world, yeah. They need to fix their own problems at home before they can think on leading the world. Also, maybe choose an more experienced politician for this job? ;)
The only good thing to come from Trump's presidency is people finally realising how utterly stupid (nay: intellectually offensive) is the imaginary mantle of "leader of the free world".

Well, some people, at least.
Or this. Yeah :D
 

Tovarisc

Member
Jul 1, 2014
16,139
0
0
Nope. Germany here and its really funny how everyone loses their shit because Obama declared a german politician as the new leader of the new world and is happy to let Macron slide in because he made a PR statement

Macron and Merkel both are strong politicians and leaders. Somewhat early to say about Macron for sure, but at least his foreign policy has some teeth to it so that can be seen as good sign.

Just make "Leader of the Free World" throne two seater.
 

GAMEPROFF

Banned
Apr 15, 2013
33,306
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Macron and Merkel both are strong politicians and leaders. Somewhat early to say about Macron for sure, but. at least his foreign policy has some teeth to it so that can be seen as good sign..
I absolutly agree. I am fine with Macron appearing as such a good guy, I am super happy that he was elected and now even pushes Merkel a bit towards a EU reform but its really funny how unfomfortable everyone is with Merkel playing the big game. Despite beeing far higher then the US in any Democracy Index and Freedom of Press list, while beeing very influentel.
It just irks me a bit, its like the funny phrase of its 2017 and germany is the sane country. Its ignorant and shows how low the level of oversight of americans is.

Just make "Leader of the Free World" throne two seater
Make it a bus and invite the whole EU ;)
 
Dec 11, 2012
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I don't believe the Paris Accords actually do anything to "save the planet" - more specifically, keep the environment habitable for human beings as they are now, the planet will be just fine with or without humans. They are just an empty feels good gesture that makes everyone feel smug about how we all came together to do good, without actually implementing a single thing that is demonstrably going to have any significant impact on greenhouse gas emissions or temperature change. The only two actionable items in the Paris accords are creating a 100 billion fund and requiring every country to report its greenhouse gas emissions, nothing about what happens if you go over your "allocation". Out of the 195 countries that signed up, 180 will receive money from the fund and only 15 will be paying into the fund so not really much of a surprise that everyone is for it.

That said, if the Paris Accords really were meant to reverse climate change, why would they not be open to negotiation? That tactic only is used when you want to win your side of an argument. If it truly was the only way to save humanity from extinction, its a weird attitude to take -- "NO NEGOTIATIONS!".

You already posted horribly inaccurate interpretations of the Paris Accord in the other thread and were corrected on the actual nature of the agreement in regards to emission targets with your claims "would do nothing", so I don't know why you're continuing to peddle similar sentiments here.

It took an insane amount of effort, and off the back of the horribly failed Copenhagen negotiations, to get Paris done. Renegotiations were never an option because that sets an insane precedent that anyone who doesn't like all the terms can hold the entire agreement hostage and demand a change.
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
Jul 24, 2015
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Nope. Germany here and its really funny how everyone loses their shit because Obama declared a german politician as the new leader of the new world and is happy to let Macron slide in because he made a PR statement


Nope. Educate Yourself.

Hitler was not elected FFS. Educate yourself. He was put into office by Hindenburg als Chancellor of the Reich, then formed the country into a dictatorship. Only Nazis go around spreading information that Hitler was elected into office. In fact a year earlier Hindenburg was elected as President because the majority wanted to avoid Hitler.
 

GAMEPROFF

Banned
Apr 15, 2013
33,306
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Hitler was not elected FFS. Educate yourself. He was put into office by Hindenburg als Chancellor of the Reich, then formed the country into a dictatorship. Only Nazis go around spreading information that Hitler was elected into office. In fact a year earlier Hindenburg was elected as President because the majority wanted to avoid Hitler.

Cool, what has that now to do with the fact that Hitler was elected as Chancellor? Pls educate yourself, especially if you throw nazi accusations around.
 

Imp the Dimp

Member
May 14, 2011
11,626
3
815
Nope. Educate Yourself.

Dude, I've read through Richard J. Evans's "The Coming of the Third Reich", one of the most recommended books on the topic, and Evans explicitly states the Machtergreifung was not achieved by legal and democratic means. Germany did not vote Hitler into office (the first Hitler cabinet did not even have a majority despite bonding with the Nationalists); he was appointed by Hindenburg. Everything else is revisionism.
 

GAMEPROFF

Banned
Apr 15, 2013
33,306
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Hitler gained the most votes in January 1933. Of course he would have been "appointed" with that (semantics) to be chancellor. But I guess when someone gets the most votes, he is not elected, even while the system works that way. Its just words. If he had not got 33% of the votes, he would not have come in charge.

Edit: OK, now I got confused and mixed things. Gonna sort my thoughts out and edit later

And to say that only nazis say that Hitler was elected is the most stupidest thing I have read here. Sorry, but thats just bullshit.
 

w3bba

Member
Nov 7, 2011
585
0
0
Don't let Macron being better than Trump or Le Pen fool you into thinking Macron is good people.

In the current state of world affairs he is at least one sane leader. Merkel is also not perfect by far not, but one of the best we currently have in Germany and Europe. Same for Macron and France
 

John Caboose

Member
May 15, 2013
3,551
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550
Sweden
Dude, I've read through Richard J. Evans's "The Coming of the Third Reich", one of the most recommended books on the topic, and Evans explicitly states the Machtergreifung was not achieved by legal and democratic means. Germany did not vote Hitler into office (the first Hitler cabinet did not even have a majority despite bonding with the Nationalists); he was appointed by Hindenburg. Everything else is revisionism.

Precisely.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 11, 2010
42,663
37
860
The only good thing to come from Trump's presidency is people finally realising how utterly stupid (nay: intellectually offensive) is the imaginary mantle of "leader of the free world".

Well, some people, at least.

Ya already see people scrambling to ascribe one person or another the new title of "leader of the free world" so... It's probably just human nature to want that kind of faux security of leadership.
 

R_thanatos

Member
Apr 20, 2010
23,664
0
0
earth planet
Just keep in mind that Macron is still campaigning (kind of) and that Trump, just like Brexit, is currently seen as a boon for centrist politicians and parties across Europe. Time will tell if all his talk is just posturing or something more meaningful.

Either case, expect further division between America and the EU.

It was inevitable considering that trump kept saying bullshit about EU , NATO and other things
 

The Lamp

Member
Nov 6, 2010
17,178
2
0
Why should the French government (And people) subsidies lifestyle of super rich people?
You already have subsidised healthcare and higher education over here.
It's paid by taxes that are a little bit higher but not that much.

You are behaving like those huge corporations that ask for subsidies and they threaten to leave if everyone doesn't bend over your way.

Nah, not super rich. It's just reality, scientists and engineers are paid well in the US with good benefits provided by their company or university. They go through the most grueling years of university and they come out to a job market that pays good benefits, and usually in cities with cheap costs of living because they often work near plants or manufacturing. I'll be making six figures in a few years, with good health insurance and great retirement benefits, so there needs to be incentive for the top players in STEM to move to France, like an eased up immigration process for STEM and good incentives either by company or government. If you don't do that, American talent will have a hard time justifying going over there, especially over Canada. I would probably endure a $15-20k paycut moving to France, plus the extra taxes, and right now I have access to the best research doctors in the world doing novel techniques (I may have a tarlov cyst and less than 10 neurosurgeons in the world treat these, with one of them in my city) with my insurance. I want to go to France, but it's too complicated and not incentivized enough yet, tbh. Yes, Macron is talking to a lot of climate scientists and engineers who are disillusioned by USA politics and maybe even don't have jobs right now. But lots of people qualified to do climate research are just in other sectors that compensate well instead.

I don't know who would pay what, whether the government itself, or companies themselves, or some agreement between both, but unless you incentivize American scientists and engineers to move their lives over there, it's kind of an empty invitation for most. Engineers and scientists aren't really feeling the problems other people in this country are. Like I said, even my French friends who live in the US as scientists can't justify moving back to France long term. The job market there for academic or professional scientists and engineers is lacking compared to the US.
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
Jul 24, 2015
4,787
2,810
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Switzerland
Dude, I've read through Richard J. Evans's "The Coming of the Third Reich", one of the most recommended books on the topic, and Evans explicitly states the Machtergreifung was not achieved by legal and democratic means. Germany did not vote Hitler into office (the first Hitler cabinet did not even have a majority despite bonding with the Nationalists); he was appointed by Hindenburg. Everything else is revisionism.

Thank you.
 

GAMEPROFF

Banned
Apr 15, 2013
33,306
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So, regarding my follow up or edit, I am still going to do this, but I will need some time. Not to make research, just due to the fact that I always get a bit confused when I get agitated (in this case due to external influences from outside the web), so I mixed shit up and everything got worse.
Its a side issue of my ADHD and today was not my best day. And sorry, when I was a bit to harsh. I am the first who feels extrem bad when behaving so when I come down again, in fact I already do.

I need to chill out a bit, cut out the outside a bit and will then return to this thread.
 

R_thanatos

Member
Apr 20, 2010
23,664
0
0
earth planet
Don't let Macron being better than Trump or Le Pen fool you into thinking Macron is good people.

WHAT ?

Macron is doing a good job internationnaly. That's his freaking job. represent france on the world stage. There is a prime minister for anything nationnal .
Not to mention that since france still has eleection right now , no actual policies was discussed or put in place.

The rethoric that macron is not a "good people" is , at this point of time , ridiculous and false.
 

Imp the Dimp

Member
May 14, 2011
11,626
3
815
Better to admit to your mistake than doubling down on it with dubious sources or ghosting the thread. I'm at peace with this.
 

GAMEPROFF

Banned
Apr 15, 2013
33,306
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Better to admit to your mistake than doubling down on it with dubious sources or ghosting the thread. I'm at peace with this.

Yeah, most likely I was super wrong anyway with mixing different things up.

I just feel always bad for my behaviour afterwards :(


Like I said, I am gonna need some time and then post my actual explanation or at least try to post what I was mixing up that made me come to this conclusion.
 

LogicAirForce

Neo Member
Feb 6, 2017
112
0
0
Nebraska
Apologies for trying to hijack this thread, and let me know if isn't allowed, but I've got a question.

American's (as a whole), do you feel that over the next 4 years (at least) of Trump,...Trumping his way through diplomacy, and being globally derided for it. Do you believe that over the years there will be a resentment grow from people who don't support Trump but are sick of America bashing?

I could see something like this happening and Trump using it to help his re-election chances. He could hold himself up as standing up, not against wall st this time, but against the rest of the world as they try and bully him.

For the record this is an Aussie asking this who loves your country.

I definitely got tired of the constanst America bashing throughout the Bush and Obama years. Its like yeah, I get it we suck. The whataboutism in every thread about another country's screw up got old as well. I think it is best to focus on Trump, the GOP, and the people who voted for them, not Americans as a whole. After all, Trump didn't even win the popular vote. Though I don't fault people for not understanding how our completely backwards voting system works. I also think that the people smart enough to not vote for trump will also see right through any " I'm standing up against the bullies" bullshit he will try to pull. Hopefully.
 

cntr

Banned
Apr 3, 2008
19,719
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Every language in the entire world is complicated and full of exceptions, even obscure languages with a few dozen speakers (and every nation calls their own language the most complicated in the world, even the obscure languages with a few dozen speakers). But French is one of the easier languages to learn coming from English.

Pronunciation, spelling, vocabulary, and grammar are different, but they're not that different. The fundamentals are going to be familiar or understandable to an English speaker, even if some of the details trip you up. And having a common European-derived culture helps a lot.

(For comparison, Chinese actually has a fairly similar grammar to English and the pronunciation isn't hard as it's made out to be, but it's the lack of common culture and vocabulary that makes it difficult to learn.)
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Jun 7, 2004
42,381
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Germans drink sparkling water.
French will dislocate your brain with idiot maths trying to count past 70.

The Franco-German axis was a mistake. It's nothing but trash.
 

Violet_0

Banned
Jul 26, 2011
17,351
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Germans drink sparkling water.
French will dislocate your brain with idiot maths trying to count past 70.

The Franco-German axis was a mistake. It's nothing but trash.

in which European country do people not drink sparkling water? The Dutch do it too, heck, even the Italians
 

SuperBanana

Banned
May 22, 2015
2,514
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Bullshit. Educate yourself.

Hitler lost the presidential election in 1932. The Nazi Party gained a majority in the 1932 German legislative election but failed to hold enough seats for a majority government so the sitting Chancellor stayed. Another legislative election was held later in the year and the Nazi party lost seats. No coalition of parties had enough for the 293 seats needed. Hitler then formed a coalition with another right-wing party to gain 250 seats. At this point he demanded the position of Chancellor and the right to form a government as he had more support in the Reichstag than the current Chancellor. Hindenburg agreed and appointed Hitler Chancellor on January 30, 1933, and Hitler proceeded to form a government.

So no, Hitler was never directly voted in to power by the people like Trump was. It's a different system anyway but it sounded like the other guy was directly comparing the two. He gained power but not enough, it was only through his influence in the Reichstag which lead to him to form the new government.

Does it still fall under democratic law? Yes. Was he directly voted into power like Trump? No. So I guess you can say he was democratically elected into power but not like Trump where it's 1 vs 1 winner takes all.