'Empire' Star Jussie Smollett Attacked in Possible Hate Crime (Update: All Charges Dropped. Records Sealed. Chicago Mayor Not Happy.)

monegames

Member
Sep 26, 2014
2,076
1,535
330
There's no double jeopardy for a criminal case against him either. The charges were dropped, there was no court ruling of innocence or guilt. Charges can be re-filed against him at any time.
Thats not exactly true. Since charges were filed and then later dismissed, It is basically an acquittal from the court's perspective. He can't be tried again for this. Though he could be charged at the federal level for things associated with the attack because the jurisdiction is different. In this case there is only one thing that could change his double jeopardy status for this. If Kim Foxx's office is found to be compromised and gave in to pressure to drop the case, then the case would be made null and he could be re-charged.
 

autoduelist

Gold Member
Aug 30, 2014
7,524
4,012
495
Thats not exactly true. Since charges were filed and then later dismissed, It is basically an acquittal from the court's perspective. He can't be tried again for this. Though he could be charged at the federal level for things associated with the attack because the jurisdiction is different. In this case there is only one thing that could change his double jeopardy status for this. If Kim Foxx's office is found to be compromised and gave in to pressure to drop the case, then the case would be made null and he could be re-charged.
Everything I've read other than his lawyers has said it doesn't amount to double jeopardy. Source?
 
Last edited:

matt404au

Gold Member
Apr 25, 2009
10,740
14,528
940
Australia
Why are we still talking about double jeopardy? I was the one that first mentioned it but I swear some of you are overlooking the “almost like” that preceded it and are instead reading what you want to read. It’s not a double jeopardy issue, but what I was saying was that the ability to chase him twice for the same crime via successive criminal / civil suits seems like a similar result.
 

monegames

Member
Sep 26, 2014
2,076
1,535
330
Everything I've read other than his lawyers has said it doesn't amount to double jeopardy. Source?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquittal

In common law jurisdictions, an acquittal certifies that the accused is free from the charge of an offense, as far as the criminal law is concerned. This is so even where the prosecution is simply abandoned by the prosecution. The finality of an acquittal is dependent on the jurisdiction. In some countries, such as the United States, an acquittal operates to bar the retrial of the accused for the same offense, even if new evidence surfaces that further implicates the accused.
@LegendOfKage posted it earlier.
 

LegendOfKage

Gold Member
Mar 6, 2018
2,188
3,008
400
Everything I've read other than his lawyers has said it doesn't amount to double jeopardy. Source?
Huh, well there ya go...
The good news...

In common law jurisdictions, an acquittal certifies that the accused is free from the charge of an offense, as far as the criminal law is concerned. This is so even where the prosecution is simply abandoned by the prosecution. The finality of an acquittal is dependent on the jurisdiction. In some countries, such as the United States, an acquittal operates to bar the retrial of the accused for the same offense, even if new evidence surfaces that further implicates the accused.
So yeah, that doesn't apply to a civil case, and his lawyers are still full of shit. My guess is they know darn well this is nothing to do with double jeopardy, and they're just trying to drum up support for him, and make him look as much like a victim as possible.

They likely knew they would have even lost the criminal case, and have no chance whatsoever here, so they're doing what they can to make it look good. No, he can't be tried again in a criminal court (not that he ever was) but the city can definitely sue him for the $390,000 they're demanding.
 
Last edited:

Boss Mog

Gold Member
Dec 12, 2013
4,243
2,816
540
Thats not exactly true. Since charges were filed and then later dismissed, It is basically an acquittal from the court's perspective. He can't be tried again for this. Though he could be charged at the federal level for things associated with the attack because the jurisdiction is different. In this case there is only one thing that could change his double jeopardy status for this. If Kim Foxx's office is found to be compromised and gave in to pressure to drop the case, then the case would be made null and he could be re-charged.
You're wrong on this. A dismissal is something a court judge rules on. Here there was no court ruling whatsoever, the DA's office simply dropped the charges. They can be re-filed at any time hence why attorney Saadi Mohammed called for him to be re-charged.
 
Last edited:

LegendOfKage

Gold Member
Mar 6, 2018
2,188
3,008
400
You're wrong on this. A dismissal is something a court judge rules on. Here there was no court ruling whatsoever, the DA's office simply dropped the charges. They can be re-filed at any time hence why attorney Saadi Mohammed called for him to be re-charged.
To quote myself from earlier in the thread...

Wikipedia said this about double jeopardy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_jeopardy

Double jeopardy is a procedural defense that prevents an accused person from being tried again on the same (or similar) charges and on the same facts, following a valid acquittal or conviction.
About acquittal:
In common law jurisdictions, an acquittal certifies that the accused is free from the charge of an offense, as far as the criminal law is concerned. This is so even where the prosecution is simply abandoned by the prosecution. The finality of an acquittal is dependent on the jurisdiction. In some countries, such as the United States, an acquittal operates to bar the retrial of the accused for the same offense, even if new evidence surfaces that further implicates the accused.
The only exception:
The only exception to an acquittal being final is if the defendant was never in actual jeopardy. If a defendant bribes a judge and obtains acquittal as a result of a bench trial, the acquittal is not valid because the defendant was never in jeopardy in the first place. Harry Aleman v. Judges of the Criminal Division, Circuit Court of Cook County, Illinois, et al., 138 F.3d 302 (7th Cir. 1998).
That one is kind of a longshot, though. It would be very interesting an investigation found the charges were wrongfully dropped, and his acquittal was decided to be invalid, but I'm really doubtful. If anything happens, it's probably going to be because of the the letter he either did or didn't send.
 
Last edited:

autoduelist

Gold Member
Aug 30, 2014
7,524
4,012
495
To quote myself from earlier in the thread...

Wikipedia said this about double jeopardy:
.
I agree with your interpretation of wikipedia. But, while I am not a lawyer, I am very unsure if that's correct. The gist of the opposing opinion is that this happened so early in the case it does not count as an acquittal.

Hmm I have an idea.. let me search the interwebs:

https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/when-double-jeopardy-protection-ends.html
Perhaps the most interesting line:

"The Supreme Court held in United States v. Scott that no double jeopardy interest is triggered when defendants obtain a dismissal for reasons unrelated to their guilt or innocence."

I'm thinking that may apply to Smollett. That entire page is interesting and worth a read, I think you could make an argument in either direction.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110812092954AAsvZ70

Above is an 8 year old case in Louisiana.
"State charged my son with theft over $500.00. I recieved a letter for the District Attorney stating the charges have been dropped. I was told that now they were going to charge him again for the same original charge, Can they do that?"

The unanimous opinion was they can. Clearly, not proof, but it does show a differing position than wikipedia.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/the-prohibition-against-double-jeopardy.html

Aaahhhh.

Here we go.

The government must place a defendant “in jeopardy” for the Fifth Amendment clause to apply. The simple filing of criminal charges doesn’t cause jeopardy to “attach”—the proceedings must get to a further stage.

Generally, jeopardy attaches when the court swears in the jury. In a trial before a judge, jeopardy attaches after the first witness takes the oath and begins to testify."
So according to that site, Jeopardy is not triggered because no jury was sworn in.


I'm not a lawyer so am not pretending to know for sure. But based on the above, especially the two legal sites, and most especially the last definition, I would say he quite possibly can be prosecuted again and there's definitely room for debate. The idea that he's definitely safe seems to be incorrect no matter what a Layman reading of Wikipedia says.

How hilarious would this be if it reaches the supreme court in some bizarre double jeopardy decision.
 
Last edited:

Cunth

Fingerlickin' Good!
May 22, 2018
3,270
8,201
495
This whole clown show is a perfect representation of modern retardism
 

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
886
1,081
230
Even the black police chief is racist? Must be nice having a trump card you can play anytime it looks like you will face consequences for your actions. Some may say it sounds like a privilege.
There is a card for this. Uncle Tom or some such. Every identity gets compartmentalised.
 
Last edited:

Boss Mog

Gold Member
Dec 12, 2013
4,243
2,816
540
Even the black police chief is racist? Must be nice having a trump card you can play anytime it looks like you will face consequences for your actions. Some may say it sounds like a privilege.
Par for the course in 2019 sadly. Victimhood culture at its peak.
 

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
4,721
4,344
510
Everyone is playing the race card its hilarious.

Jussi started this shit by playing the race card. Then he tried to play it again against the CPD, now Foxx wants to play it against the FOP.

Its like a race card bonanza. But just goes to show that the lefts favorite tactic is to play the race card. No need to discuss or debate anymore you are a racist, you almost have no comeback to that. No matter what you say doesn't matter because all your words and actions are covered by racism.
 

Shaqazooloo

Member
Nov 3, 2018
569
452
205
Canada
I can't believe this story. It's gotten way out of hand and is beyond insane.
Nice, that we're bringing in the race card when most major players involved is black.
Also, nice that people are calling all police racist despite clearly seeing black people among the ranks...

What a joke.
 

autoduelist

Gold Member
Aug 30, 2014
7,524
4,012
495
Blue Klux Kkan. :messenger_grinning_smiling: Well case close, they won.
This shit is getting bad. Portland is having a crisis where they can't replace officers that quit or retire, they're down over 10% from where they want to be. In addition to low applicant rates, those that are applying all fail background checks.

Turns out nobody wants to have their mayor tell them to stand down while protesters [aka antifa] are allowed to attack civilians, spit on police, call minority police officers race traitors [and far worse racial slurs], etc. Turns out the people who risk their lives to protect people don't want to be called disgusting names and vilified.
 

pimentel1

Member
Jul 22, 2018
988
590
340
Chicago's police union is 'the sworn enemy of black people,' Rep. Bobby Rush says after protest of Jussie Smollett case

But U.S. Rep. Bobby Rush, activist Ja’Mal Green, Jackson and a group of other Foxx supporters blamed the city’s Fraternal Order of Police for a Monday confrontation over the Smollett case that displayed some of the city’s racial and political divisions.
“The FOP is the sworn enemy of black people, the sworn enemy of black people,” said Rush, who drew criticism in the city’s mayoral election when he suggested supporters of Mayor-elect Lori Lightfoot would have the blood of African-American youth killed by the police on their hands
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-chicago-foxx-smollett-police-union-racism-20190406-story.html

Crime runs rampant in Chicago, but Democrat voters chose this. Doesn’t matter if you are caught red handed like Smollett. Police are no matter what the enemy of Democrats. Same thing happened with the death of Officer Singh in California. Because he was killed by an illegal immigrant and the police stated elected officials had tied their hands, neither Gov. Newsom or Brown attended the officers funeral when they attended others. So while Democrats seek justice to take down what one says and gloat about it, remember they support criminals and do not care about physical violence and race-baiting hoaxers, unless it fits their narrative.
 
Last edited:

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
886
1,081
230
Prosecutor In Foxx’s Office Slams Her Handling of Smollett Case: ‘An International Laughingstock’


https://www.nationalreview.com/news/prosecutor-in-foxxs-office-slams-her-handling-of-smollett-case-an-international-laughing-stock/

“An anonymous attorney in the Cook County prosecutor’s office lambasted state attorney Kim Foxx over her handling of the high profile Jussie Smollett case, and the tendency of her and her allies to resort to accusations of racism when criticized, in an a letter provided to CWB Chicago on Monday.”
 

Musky_Cheese

Community Liaison
Oct 23, 2016
5,337
8,315
635
I love how no one gave a crap that he was getting his ass kicked until the gun came out. Then all of them started screaming no, no, no as the bodies were about the hit the ground. Shows how these people think.
Yeah it’s pretty weird.

Thankfully he didn’t kill them. I’m sure he’s the monster tho smh
 

Damage Inc

Gold Member
Nov 10, 2013
4,064
1,805
550
Yeah it’s pretty weird.

Thankfully he didn’t kill them. I’m sure he’s the monster tho smh
I had to watch it 3 times to verify what I was hearing. Literally it was business as usual until he gained the upper hand. Then the women all started the screaming. If he would have pulled the trigger it would have spawned instant protests even with video that showed the incident.

They bolted, if he would have shot them while they were retreating it would have been hell on earth.

If they kept attacking and he shot it would still have been hell on earth but he would at least not have been at fault.

He made the right choice.
 

bucyou

Gold Member
Feb 3, 2018
969
1,124
335
Strange indeed. I've been conditioned by the media to assume white men go out looking for reasons to pull out the strap against black and brown people, considering the outcome of the video, this guy should be recognized with an award
 

Musky_Cheese

Community Liaison
Oct 23, 2016
5,337
8,315
635
Strange indeed. I've been conditioned by the media to assume white men go out looking for reasons to pull out the strap against black and brown people, considering the outcome of the video, this guy should be recognized with an award
But the story would be they almost got killed. I’m sure the story will be spun that the gun carrier was the aggressor even if he wasn’t.

Fox will carry one version, NBC another. We will divide into two and only two groups and play verbal gotcha dodge ball.
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
Sep 29, 2014
4,155
4,419
560
The difference is that Google is a business, and Goebbel's ministry was a political arm of the Reich.

The ultimate goal of a business is to shape the narrative. Google just happens to be big enough that they can shape narratives regarding things that have no relevance to their business model.

It's troubling if Google is setting their own results based on their fancy, but what solution is there that doesn't effect freedom of speech rights?
Hey, speaking ill of the company store and it’s leadership is taboo you know. Can’t have workers sharing information that might cut into profits. You had better not be discussing your wages either.

Corporations shouldn’t have free speech rights, only the individuals working for them.
 

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
886
1,081
230
Thorough investigative report by Mr Reagan

Jussie Smollett | George Soros | Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

 
Last edited:

autoduelist

Gold Member
Aug 30, 2014
7,524
4,012
495
I love how no one gave a crap that he was getting his ass kicked until the gun came out. Then all of them started screaming no, no, no as the bodies were about the hit the ground. Shows how these people think.

yeah, that was ridiculously disturbing. I didnt mention it in my post because I wanted to see if others were as put off by that as well. Nobody tried to help. They were literally smashing his head on bricks. And then suddenly the onlookers care.

I was right about the crickets in the media. If this was two white guys beating a black guy... the media focus on cherry picked acts creates such a strong narrative.
 

diablos991

Can’t stump the diablos
Jun 15, 2013
8,456
581
525
His life was in danger. Likely would be justified if he committed to the defense. More people need to protect themselves, especially in these major metro areas.
 
Last edited:
Aug 29, 2018
942
1,179
235
34
Bartow, Florida, USA
I urge people ITT to to listen to the last few episodes of the 'Reasonable Doubt' podcast with Adam Carolla and Mark Garagos. Garagos is the owner of the firm representing Smollett, and he gives you a deeper insight into the case than anybody else in the media is able to. The basic timeline from Smollett's side is that he was receiving steroids from the younger brother that was a personal trainer (which explains the reluctance with the phone records), and the older brother was a seriously homophobic.

I'm not saying that I agree with Smollett's lawyer's take on this incedent, but after 5+ hours of listening to a deep dive on this straight from the horse's mouth over the course of a month and a half, I agree that it's possible this guy is innocent of deliberately forging this hoax. I also don't trust the government of Chicago if they came out with a press release saying the sky is blue.

Of course the hoax narrative is still possible, but the narrative that his lawyers have put out is certainly possible.
 

matt404au

Gold Member
Apr 25, 2009
10,740
14,528
940
Australia
I urge people ITT to to listen to the last few episodes of the 'Reasonable Doubt' podcast with Adam Carolla and Mark Garagos. Garagos is the owner of the firm representing Smollett, and he gives you a deeper insight into the case than anybody else in the media is able to. The basic timeline from Smollett's side is that he was receiving steroids from the younger brother that was a personal trainer (which explains the reluctance with the phone records), and the older brother was a seriously homophobic.

I'm not saying that I agree with Smollett's lawyer's take on this incedent, but after 5+ hours of listening to a deep dive on this straight from the horse's mouth over the course of a month and a half, I agree that it's possible this guy is innocent of deliberately forging this hoax. I also don't trust the government of Chicago if they came out with a press release saying the sky is blue.

Of course the hoax narrative is still possible, but the narrative that his lawyers have put out is certainly possible.
Still doesn't explain why they wouldn't just let it go to trial.

Also, isn't Garagos involved in the Avenatti stuff?
 

oagboghi2

Member
Apr 15, 2018
3,074
3,651
250
I urge people ITT to to listen to the last few episodes of the 'Reasonable Doubt' podcast with Adam Carolla and Mark Garagos. Garagos is the owner of the firm representing Smollett, and he gives you a deeper insight into the case than anybody else in the media is able to. The basic timeline from Smollett's side is that he was receiving steroids from the younger brother that was a personal trainer (which explains the reluctance with the phone records), and the older brother was a seriously homophobic.

I'm not saying that I agree with Smollett's lawyer's take on this incedent, but after 5+ hours of listening to a deep dive on this straight from the horse's mouth over the course of a month and a half, I agree that it's possible this guy is innocent of deliberately forging this hoax. I also don't trust the government of Chicago if they came out with a press release saying the sky is blue.

Of course the hoax narrative is still possible, but the narrative that his lawyers have put out is certainly possible.
1. Avenatti
2. That is literally Jussie's lawyer. He has every reason to bullshit you.
3. Avenatti
 
  • Like
Reactions: CurryPanda

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
9,762
16,743
690
USA
dunpachi.com
I urge people ITT to to listen to the last few episodes of the 'Reasonable Doubt' podcast with Adam Carolla and Mark Garagos. Garagos is the owner of the firm representing Smollett, and he gives you a deeper insight into the case than anybody else in the media is able to. The basic timeline from Smollett's side is that he was receiving steroids from the younger brother that was a personal trainer (which explains the reluctance with the phone records), and the older brother was a seriously homophobic.

I'm not saying that I agree with Smollett's lawyer's take on this incedent, but after 5+ hours of listening to a deep dive on this straight from the horse's mouth over the course of a month and a half, I agree that it's possible this guy is innocent of deliberately forging this hoax. I also don't trust the government of Chicago if they came out with a press release saying the sky is blue.

Of course the hoax narrative is still possible, but the narrative that his lawyers have put out is certainly possible.
Garagos isn't a clean source of information, in my opinion.

Also, how do you account for Jussie Smollett's story changing several times? Remember, the police believed Jussie's story, pulled in the brothers, and then released them without charge.
 

#Phonepunk#

Gold Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,299
3,804
365
that text if accurate is a bombshell. basically confirmation that he is guilty?
 
Last edited: