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Epic Games calls PS5 a "masterpiece of systems design"

Jan 29, 2019
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I would guess Xbox. Basically DirectX, and Microsoft already has a whole suite of amazing dev tools they just give away.
DirectX seems to fade out since Vulkan entered the market.

I don't want to claim MS has development tools, people have praised them for about as long as I can remember. But this is not like Sony had bad toolset either, their reputation got much better in the late days of the PS3 and Vita.
 

Panajev2001a

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XSX isn't tiny, but it's smaller and more compact. XSX doesn't have alarming high clocks. XSX clocks are actually very conservative. So heating issues would be more of a concern for sony, hence the variable clocks. That's the point i'm getting at.

No foot was shot.
Compact or small are not adjectives we can use about either, but yes high clocks were part of the initial design (nobody but some “last minute XSX reaction leading to massive upclock” Xbox fans disagrees with that really) ... and the point was that they built cooling and a case to make sure it was not a problem.

The two consoles are very large: apparently when XSX was shown as the massive console it is people said it was a bold pro consumer cooling efficient choice, but now PS5’s size is supposed to be a “concern”because of course the implication of the size of the console have to be worrying ones... hence the foot shooting.
 
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CurtBizzy

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This video is not representative of anything regarding next gen consoles.
For one, everything here needs to be decompressed by the CPU, while both consoles have a dedicated hardware decompression block, freeing up CPU resources.
The XSX has an SSD, not an HDD. Using an HDD to somehow represent the XSX is pretty much trolling.
XSX SSD performance is barley faster than 550MB/s
 

Kerotan

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Seems like leading to release all we will get is "He said, she said" from various companies who have some sort of marketing deal with Sony and Microsoft.

Even though the fast SSD is a good thing, I wonder how many 3rd Party Developers will use its full potential. PS5 exclusives can develop for the SSD, front to back, but 3rd Party Developers will have to work around it.
Maybe both consoles are incredible and that's why so many devs have such good things to say?
 

Ascend

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XSX SSD performance is barley faster than 550MB/s
Even if it was 550MB/s, that is still 10x faster compared to an HDD.
More importantly, did you even read the Tweet you posted? State of Decay was not optimized for the XSX, as already discussed a gazillion times in these forums. Using that as a reference, is at best disingenuous.

Both consoles are game changers. But people love their confirmation bias. They only want the one they like to be seen in a positive light.
 

Kerlurk

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The Sony loyalist are the ones touting it and Epic feeds this through implication ("months of discussion with Sony"). Epic could end the debate by simply releasing the usage numbers or by demoing it on high end PC.
You have assumptions, and Epic is still working on the engine, which won't be due till late next year.

There will be no day and night difference for the next generation.

Pause, zoom in 400 percent, and look at the difference. In the end, you won't see it playing a game.
 
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CurtBizzy

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Even if it was 550MB/s, that is still 10x faster compared to an HDD.
More importantly, did you even read the Tweet you posted? State of Decay was not optimized for the XSX, as already discussed a gazillion times in these forums. Using that as a reference, is at best disingenuous.

Both consoles are game changers. But people love their confirmation bias. They only want the one they like to be seen in a positive light.
Who cares about optimizing, the results here are showing the inferior bottleneck I/O
 

NoMoChokeSJ

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Your bullshitting, Sony loyalists aren't saying tht l, how many times do ppl have to comment? Take tht pseudo agenda bs elsewhere. Only thing most Sony fans are sayingggggg is, it is an engine tht is Middleware and will be used on all consoles however that demo may not look as good or be the same considering it harnesses Sony's ssd solution and we all know Sony's SSD solution is above and beyond Microsoft's (fact no matter how ppl try to spin it) or anything out there for tht matter. Xsx could have the same demo but the assets may not stream or look as good. We don't know, ppl are just deducting based off ssd power in ps5 and what Sweeny himself is saying.

I hate when you have ppl twisting shit. I hardly ever see anyone saying tht UE5 is only possible on PS5 we are fucking enthusiasts in this site only the Cult of mistermedia x and his green followers spew bs like tht e.g. No RT in ps5 lol its not RDNA 2, etc lol
You're the one bullshitting. There are endless threads, including the xbox architecture thread where many, many people claim that the UE5 demo would not be able to be replicated at the same quality on the new xbox. You admit it yourself by speculating that the assests would be lesser, so claiming otherwise is foolish. If epic released the data numbers streamed by the system the debate would be solved. Also, I have no reason for an agenda as I'll own both systems just as I do this generation., So next time you throw out cult claims you may want to kick off your owm purple jumpsuit and nikes before you do it.
 

Ascend

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Who cares about optimizing, the results here are showing the inferior bottleneck I/O
You should. Because if the same game (or any game for that matter) would be loaded on the PS5 without any optimizations, the exact same thing (i.e. relatively slow loading) would happen as it happened on the XSX, despite its SSD system being much faster than the XSX.
 
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Keihart

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You should. Because if the same game (or any game for that matter) would be loaded on the PS5 without any optimizations, the exact same thing (i.e. relatively slow loading) would happen as it happened on the XSX, despite its SSD system being much faster than the XSX.
I really wonder about that, the comparable example we have it's this....which it's way more impressive than the state of decay demo
 
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DId you not see the UE5 tech demo running on PS5? I mean this with all due respect, but like many others on this board you have no clue what you're talking about or what you're looking at.

It's a shame people still don't understand what that thing was showing. They even pretty clearly explained it. The SSD speed enabled them to basically use their all new technology to load "uncompressed cinema quality assets with no LODs" directly into the frame buffer/GPU memory. The amount of data that needs to be loaded to achieve this is so large it needs the performance enabled by the PS5, and it also depends on how the data is then loaded into memory. It's not an evolution of a standard setup it's a new thing. I believe they mentioned even rendering the scene using 3 million flat shaded polygons (one per pixel), which is such a brilliant idea in hindsight. The main graphics engineer for Epic said on Twitter that they've been working on this tech for a decade. Again, I repeat, It's not a standard game engine rendering setup. This is why so many people are either not getting it or being willfully ignorant.

Sweeney straight up said the demo would not be possible without PS5s SSD.

BTW do you think the company that brought Gears to the 360 and sold the IP to Microsoft, prefers the PC, and publishes everywhere is in bed with Sony? Think about that statement.

Epic goes where the tech is. Period.



Yes, anyone listening to some of the smartest graphics engineers on the planet is "naive." But we should listen to random console fans who don't do any software or hardware engineering, but know how to look at marketing spec sheets. Phew, silly me.
Ugh gawd damn dude, nothing wrong with being excited about a future product dude or new tech but just because someone is not singing your tune does not mean they have not been following or have no clue.

Yes I saw the same UE5 demo whoopie. I was not even talking about Epic or the PS5 I was talking about the words like "masterpiece of systems design"
This ain't politics you ain't got to try this hard it is insulting to people with brain cells, I mean this with all due respect.

I'm glad you are happy with the fluffy words that make your tummy have butterflies and your heart go pitter patter but we have been here before many times being sold on new hardware. This hardware is only magical today until the next one that comes out in the next cycle.

New generation, the demo is everything we should expect for upcoming games in this hobby, there is no need to jerk off to it like PS5 is the only thing that made it possible though, and there is no need to get personal about this, I did not insult your favorite company. I just said the flowery words don't work on me, I ended that with saying games work on me.

You are acting like an SSD hasn't been on the roadmap in gaming for a long time and it is the next coming of Jesus. There is loving tech and there is eating up PR Speak because you are a drolling fan wanting the best tech for your platform of choice. I love tech like most people on here, I own an SSD and the concept Sony is promoting is one of the key reasons why a PS5 is in my future. What did I say that was such a trigger for you that I am on the level of having no clue about what I am talking about?

Just because we are not foaming at the mouth about an SSD does not mean we don't understand the complexity or the benefits Sony is trying to tap into. We have been moving in this direction for years and now we are suddenly clueless because we are not shitting ourselves because someone is doing it?

We go through this shit every generation, relax it is not that big of a deal if someone shows a little skepticism about pr claims. I might love this PS5 SSD as much as you do.

"Sweeney straight up said the demo would not be possible without PS5s SSD" duh that you need an SSD of this level for it and doubtful this SSD can't be outdone by another SSD in about 2 months in tech cycles, which makes this PR Speak more than truth. I doubt they built UE5 for a PS5 SSD it is just convenient to say only possible on the PS5 SSD at the time people are hyped for new hardware. Just because a salesman is trying to sell you on something does not mean repeating every word coming out of his mough makes you wiser than someone raising any doubts about the words being used.

I wonder how many years it will take before Sony tries to sell us the next "masterpiece of systems design", maybe like 2 years with a PS5 PRO?

"Epic goes where the tech is. Period." sounds like a good slogan to me.
 

CurtBizzy

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You should. Because if the same game (or any game for that matter) would be loaded on the PS5 without any optimizations, the exact same thing (i.e. relatively slow loading) would happen as it happened on the XSX, despite its SSD system being much faster than the XSX.

I doubt the performance will be that slow becuase of the dedicated hardware
 
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Leyasu

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XSX SSD performance is barley faster than 550MB/s
You didn't even read that. It has been discussed to death how SoD2 was in no way made with an SSD in mind

Besides, that was 11 seconds compared to 51 seconds on a game not optimized in anyway.

Now use your brain and think about the added improvements of game optimized/built with the SSD in mind.

Then, imagine again the improvements on the PS5 with its even faster setup.

Next gen gonna be great
 
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Ascend

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I really wonder about that, the comparable example we have it's this....which it's way more impressive than the state of decay demo

I doubt the performance will be that slow becuase of the dedicated hardware
This is the moment where I jump out of the discussion for the sake of not derailing the thread further, and honestly, for my own sanity. Discussing with certain people is simply futile. Reminds me of pigeon chess.
 

martino

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XSX SSD performance is barley faster than 550MB/s
i'm guessing cpu still do the uncompression when in bc whereas game optimized will use xva and especially the decompression block
also we don't really know how many cores the game originally used to do that on xox.
 
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CurtBizzy

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You didn't even read that. It has been discussed to death how SoD2 was in no way made with an SSD in mind

Besides, that was 11 seconds compared to 51 seconds on a game not optimized in anyway.

Now use your brain and think about the added improvements of game optimized/built with the SSD in mind.

Then, imagine again the improvements on the PS5 with its even faster setup.

Next gen gonna be great
A 550MB/s SSD was 2 seconds slower than the XSX SSD, XSX I/O velocity is inferior
 

Leyasu

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A 550MB/s SSD was 2 seconds slower than the XSX SSD, XSX I/O velocity is inferior
And?

Inferior meaning a couple of seconds difference here and there is nothing. Everyone knows this

Dont forget that some current gen games had their datastreaming capped. Didn't sony or insomniac confirm that spiderman had a cap and wouldn't go higher no matter the drive?
 
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CurtBizzy

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And?

Inferior meaning a couple of seconds difference here and there is nothing. Everyone knows this

Dont forget that some current gen games had their datastreaming capped. Didn't sony or insomniac confirm that spiderman had a cap and wouldn't go higher no matter the drive?
What was the cap speed ? Also I doubt it will only be a 2 sec difference
 

itsjustJEFF

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If anyone is going to know... it's going to an engine builder. Sorry, but you don't know more than they do. They have hardware in hand. They've worked with many many different types of architectures. No, it's not a marketing deal. No, they weren't paid off. No, the world isn't against your chosen platform. No, there is not conspiracy going on here. It's funny because when ever a positive thing is said about one console, their is inevitably some that immediately think "What about my console?!?!" It's like praise for one is an insult to the other... 🤔

Besides, they didn't call the PS5 "The MOST POWERFUL" system. So, you still have that bullet point for your "console war" They've taken two completely different approaches

Edit: Here comes another 50 pager :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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Leyasu

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What was the cap speed ? Also I doubt it will only be a 2 sec difference
I can't remember the cap. Google it.

The PS5 is roughly twice as fast. So if the PS5 can load it in 2 seconds, then it stands to reason that the XsX will only be a couple of seconds behind.. No?
 
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Entroyp

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If anyone is going to know... it's going to an engine builder. Sorry, but you don't know more than they do. They have hardware in hand. They've worked with many many different types of architectures. No, it's not a marketing deal. No, they weren't paid off. No, the world isn't against your chosen platform. No, there is not conspiracy going on here. It's funny because when ever a positive thing is said about one console, theor is inevitably some that immediately think "What about my console?!?!" It's like praise for one is an insult to the other... 🤔

Besides, they didn't call the PS5 "The MOST POWERFUL" system. So, you still have that bullet point for your "console war" They've taken two completely different approaches

Edit: Here comes another 50 pager :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Actually you’re right. In no way Epic implied it was more powerful than any other computing device. It just makes developer’s life easier, I assume. Which is alway a good thing.
 
Jan 29, 2019
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I can't remember the cap. Google it.

The PS5 is roughly twice as fast. So if the PS5 can load it in 2 seconds, then it stands to reason that the XsX will only be a couple of seconds behind.. No?
I see no in game situations where the PS5 would load for two seconds, its ssd can deliver 9GB/s and it has 16GB or RAM (the OS uses RAM, the game must have it's own base RAM it uses too).

The big difference it not the theoretical bandwidth, this is an API implementation and hardware limitation of legacy I/O architectures, in straight game loading both machines should be "just fine" the biggest potential benefit lies in real-time in data streaming. The implications are higher details density, higher resolution textures (more RAM is available if you need to keep less objects it in at any given time).

So do what you will, but there is real potential there, but it is different from a faster GPU, so you can't really compare them directly.

I guess it will eventually show in games.
 

Gamer79

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Epic Games' VP of engineering Nick Penwarden has called the PS5 a "masterpiece of systems design", after working with the console's dev kit to help create last month's jaw-dropping Unreal Engine 5 tech demo.

"The PlayStation 5 is a masterpiece of systems design," says Penwarden. "Not only is it driving a huge leap in computing and graphics performance, but it is also revolutionary in terms of storage and data compression technology, unlocking new kinds of games and experiences for players to enjoy."

More at source

 

itsjustJEFF

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Actually you’re right. In no way Epic implied it was more powerful than any other computing device. It just makes developer’s life easier, I assume. Which is alway a good thing.
Exactly, they never once eluded to power. The system was designed for ease of use for Devs. Right now the conversation around these consoles is the thing that makes them the most different from last gen... and that's architecture. That is the single biggest difference between last gen and next gen, at least by what Devs are saying.

The biggest innovation these consoles made was with architecture. No, it wasn't the faster CPU or GPU, it was everything else around the CPU and GPU. I'm actually pretty excited to see how future architecture is designed and built after the PS5/XBSX. Looks like a bright future.
 
Dec 29, 2018
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Lol what is it about PS5 that triggers people so much ???

Sony fan here but still can appreciate the stuff Xbox is doing. Does every thread praising either console have to devolve into petty shitposts and trolling?
 

Gamerguy84

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That PS5 sure is a masterpiece of systems design.

Im kidding, just laughing reading through this thread
 
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Leyasu

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I see no in game situations where the PS5 would load for two seconds, its ssd can deliver 9GB/s and it has 16GB or RAM (the OS uses RAM, the game must have it's own base RAM it uses too).

The big difference it not the theoretical bandwidth, this is an API implementation and hardware limitation of legacy I/O architectures, in straight game loading both machines should be "just fine" the biggest potential benefit lies in real-time in data streaming. The implications are higher details density, higher resolution textures (more RAM is available if you need to keep less objects it in at any given time).

So do what you will, but there is real potential there, but it is different from a faster GPU, so you can't really compare them directly.

I guess it will eventually show in games.
High resolution textures have been a thing for years already. I don't once remember reading that an SSD was needed for them.
 
Dec 10, 2018
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Phil Spencer captured arriving at Microsoft Headquaters, ... don´t (read a) tweet and drive!

He will, as soon he´s out of the car and shock, release his opinion shortly after.
 
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Sub Boss

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In an interview with CVG, Epic Games vice president Mark Rein called Sony's upcoming PlayStation 4 console "a really perfect gaming PC" and praised the platform holder for making things easier for developers.

"I think it's a very smart move on Sony's behalf to build this sort of enhanced PC architecture and then put so much in it," Rein told CVG. "The kind of stuff that they announced that they're doing, the level of convenience and things like that... they're making a really perfect gaming PC."


Rein seemed very excited by the PlayStation 4's 8 GB of GDDR5 memory and the console's digital download options.

"Let's not forget it has 16 times the memory we had in PlayStation 3 - that's not insignificant. Knowing that every machine has that we can do crazy, ridiculous stuff," he explained. "The other exciting thing is that Windows for most people is tied to about 2 GB of addressable memory space. This really opens up beyond what most PCs can do, because most PCs are running a 32-bit version of Windows."


:messenger_tears_of_joy: shitty jaguar cores when i was on a 3930K at 4.5Ghz
to be fair the memory architecture on the PS4 was very good for its time, and he is right PS4 IS better and easier to make games for than PS3 Cell.

Both Sony and Microsoft were tied to the Jaguar this gen but PS4 was a well designed machine, just compare it to the Xbox One and Wii U, though the "perfect gamming PC" is hyperbole
 
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NoMoChokeSJ

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If anyone is going to know... it's going to an engine builder. Sorry, but you don't know more than they do. They have hardware in hand. They've worked with many many different types of architectures. No, it's not a marketing deal. No, they weren't paid off. No, the world isn't against your chosen platform. No, there is not conspiracy going on here. It's funny because when ever a positive thing is said about one console, their is inevitably some that immediately think "What about my console?!?!" It's like praise for one is an insult to the other... 🤔

Besides, they didn't call the PS5 "The MOST POWERFUL" system. So, you still have that bullet point for your "console war" They've taken two completely different approaches

Edit: Here comes another 50 pager :messenger_tears_of_joy:
If it isn't a marketing deal then why not show the same UE5 demo on other platforms? They admit it will run fine on the new Xbox and using a current PC isn't going to subject them to NDAs. So why not show it if there is no financial benefit? Or why not release the data streaming numbers to show the advantage of the PS5 I/O? Sony already told everybody what the SSD is capable of so it's not like they are letting the cat out of the bag.
 

PaintTinJr

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At about the 4:30 mark
You are completely misrepresenting what he said there, and anyone technical enough knowing the time line and the context would understand he is talking about UE3 running a game demo after 2months using nvidia Cg. That is the dead give away that none of the SPUs were being used in the demo - for anything significant, if at all - and it was being used as 2-way PowerPC with a Nvidia RSX GPU, ~200MB of RAM and ~200MB of VRAM.

That is easy to develop for when you have a middleware engine that already was running Games targeting PCs on Intel Core 2 Duo @1.6Ghz and GPUs with 128MB Vram.

But nice work trying to discredit him.