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Drama Epic Games vs Apple in court face off INCLUDING Tim Sweeney , LIVE !!!

Menzies

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Mar 31, 2021
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Really? So why are Microsoft, Sony, Google, and Facebook (Oculus) allowed to operate in the EU?


Nvidia we can excuse, they have literally no idea why they were even summoned here. They sell video cards and shit. What the fuck do they know about Apple's App Store?
Nvidia knows that their GeForce Now app was rejected from the app store. Just like Game Pass.
 

Andodalf

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Oct 20, 2013
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Really? So why are Microsoft, Sony, Google, and Facebook (Oculus) allowed to operate in the EU?


Nvidia we can excuse, they have literally no idea why they were even summoned here. They sell video cards and shit. What the fuck do they know about Apple's App Store?


Windows is an open platform. Android is open. Sony’s PCs are, of course, open. Nothing else they make is 1/100th of the general computing device that a smartphone is
 

Zeroing

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Sep 19, 2019
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All this because Apple has build this idea that the more closed their ecosystem is, the better it is for YOU the user.

Epic got the David vs Goliath syndrome and used fortnite users ( teenagers ) to “fight” against Apple status quo

Meanwhile we see Microsoft joining the battle because of Microsoft recent strategy ( put your services everywhere) will only work if Apple ecosystem is open.

Let’s s not not fool ourselves, this isn’t about us users/gamers at all. it’s just big corporations trying to take a bigger slice, maintains their status and change things for their best interest.

None of those corporations has morals.
 

Clear

Member
Feb 2, 2009
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Sorry guys, but I think its a battle worth fighting.

The fundamental question being asked here is can a device like a smartphone with its general purpose utility and humungous user-base ever justifiably operate as a closed, subsidized ecosystem like a game console?

Personally, I think not.
 
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reksveks

Member
Jun 4, 2020
2,441
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All this because Apple has build this idea that the more closed their ecosystem is, the better it is for YOU the user and themselves.

Epic got the David vs Goliath syndrome and used fortnite users ( teenagers ) to “fight” against Apple status quo

Meanwhile we see Microsoft joining the battle because of Microsoft recent strategy ( put your services everywhere) will only work if Apple ecosystem is open.

Let’s s not not fool ourselves, this isn’t about us users/gamers at all. it’s just big corporations trying to take a bigger slice, maintains their status and change things for their best interest.

None of those corporations has morals.
Yes, it's not about morals but as a consumer that's kinda irrelevant. It's about what vision of consumer rights you have. My personal belief is that Apple could for sure make iPad OS and iOS more MacOS and retain their security needs.
 

Thirty7ven

Sony make cringe trainers.
Apr 13, 2020
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Yes, it's not about morals but as a consumer that's kinda irrelevant. It's about what vision of consumer rights you have. My personal belief is that Apple could for sure make iPad OS and iOS more MacOS and retain their security needs.

There’s no reason for Xbox to be a closed system, specially when it’s now just an extension of their pc business, down to a single GDK. Any limitation is self imposed, specially when we consider the x86 architecture. If the judge rules in Epic’s (and MS) favor, Xbox will be affected.
 
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reksveks

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Jun 4, 2020
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There’s no reason for Xbox to be a closed system, specially when it’s now just an extension of their pc business. Any limitation is self imposed, specially when we consider the x86 architecture.
It's a commercial decision for sure, they have decided to make money off the app store/software sales instead of the product. There is no technical reason it needs to be closed or the PS5 (especially poignant given that Sony had the OtherOS feature on the ps3)

If console ever becomes as big as smartphones in terms of usage for time and dependency, then I would argue that Microsoft should treat the Xbox hardware the same as they do for Surface.

I try to side on the pragmatic side of policy decisions. Also there is a greyness to the general definition of consumer harm as in, the current definition is extremely shit.
 

Derktron

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Dec 27, 2019
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Apple has nothing to worry about, Apple is doing just fine. Lol, only idiots think they are not. If Apple wanted to do, Apple can produce whatever Epic Games offers and devs would still flock to it.
 

reksveks

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Apple has nothing to worry about, Apple is doing just fine. Lol, only idiots think they are not. If Apple wanted to do, Apple can produce whatever Epic Games offers and devs would still flock to it.
I meant what 'hands' are you referring to? Apple as a business is fine, the App Store probably isn't but that's not just down to the Epic case.
 

Derktron

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I meant what 'hands' are you referring to? Apple as a business is fine, the App Store probably isn't but that's not just down to the Epic case.
I don't need to explain myself. I said what I said and I just said it. Goodbye.
 
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Bryank75

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Zeroing

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Yes, it's not about morals but as a consumer that's kinda irrelevant. It's about what vision of consumer rights you have. My personal belief is that Apple could for sure make iPad OS and iOS more MacOS and retain their security needs.
Yes but Apple for a long time now deserves a beating. They even “closed” their hardware. Making their products impossible to repair, their products with planned obsolescence thus producing more waste yet they advertise as they are the only ones trying to save the environment.

The list goes on… we have a corporation that for years been advocating how “humble” and pro consumer is… but they are not.
 
Dec 14, 2008
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Sorry guys, but I think its a battle worth fighting.

The fundamental question being asked here is can a device like a smartphone with its general purpose utility and humungous user-base ever justifiably operate as a closed, subsidized ecosystem like a game console?

Personally, I think not.
Why not just..... Use Android?

Using Apple and participating in their closed ecosystem is YOUR CHOICE. By definition, Apple cannot be a monopoly because you have a choice and Android actually dominates the smartphone market share, not iOS.

Somewhere, Xi Jinping is laughing
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
18,873
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Little aside (pertinent still, this the service the fees give you…). For the joys being a dev gives you and the patronage Apple provides, not that many here give a crap how the sausage is made, this is your life as a mobile dev:
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
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DAT Epic lawyer.
Epic is trying to say Apple had a "master plan" in 2008 like Pink & Brain "World Conquest".

 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
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Yes but Apple for a long time now deserves a beating. They even “closed” their hardware. Making their products impossible to repair, their products with planned obsolescence thus producing more waste yet they advertise as they are the only ones trying to save the environment.

The list goes on… we have a corporation that for years been advocating how “humble” and pro consumer is… but they are not.
Apple does need to catch some shit somewhere, bot not this way with tearing down ecosystems.
 

Corndog

Member
Apr 17, 2020
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There’s no reason for Xbox to be a closed system, specially when it’s now just an extension of their pc business, down to a single GDK. Any limitation is self imposed, specially when we consider the x86 architecture. If the judge rules in Epic’s (and MS) favor, Xbox will be affected.
So is apple. Laptop running m1 processor.
 
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Skyfox

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Oct 24, 2017
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This is basically a hardware versus software battle.

If epic wins its bad for hardware. If apple wins its bad for software.

Apple and Nintendo use their cut to improve the hardware but they're taking the piss with this 30% tax.

If external installing is allowed like on PC then devs will have way more power and potential to earn across platforms without being taxed so much but the free money which apple, nintendo and playstation invest into future hardware will be chopped.
 
Aug 11, 2016
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There’s no reason for Xbox to be a closed system, specially when it’s now just an extension of their pc business, down to a single GDK. Any limitation is self imposed, specially when we consider the x86 architecture. If the judge rules in Epic’s (and MS) favor, Xbox will be affected.

The reason it's closed is economics. Without a closed store you will never get subsidized hardware. That's the entire point of console. Controlled environment, certification, no hacking, etc. If that's not for some of you then play on PC. The option is there.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
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Dear lawsuit: more news dumps please.
They are doing binders docs now so nobody can see them and not publishing them public anymore.
They even ask Journos to left the press area and back after these are done.
 
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Hugare

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Sep 8, 2019
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As far as I know, EGS on PC charges 20% from devs, right? Or 15%?

Anyway, not 0%

So, hypocritical much?
 

PaintTinJr

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Jan 30, 2020
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Sorry guys, but I think its a battle worth fighting.

The fundamental question being asked here is can a device like a smartphone with its general purpose utility and humungous user-base ever justifiably operate as a closed, subsidized ecosystem like a game console?

Personally, I think not.
I completely agree, and my acid test for that, is when - in the UK - people like the AA / RAC (roadside breakdown recovery) started informing customers (more than a decade ago) that they were heavily reducing the number of SOS phone boxes at the side of motorways - to phone for breakdown assistance - because virtually everyone had mobile phones.

I remember this because up until then my Dad had steadfastly refused to get a mobile phone, but then conceded that it was an essential item.

IMO, If a device becomes so ubiquitous that it is needed as a substitute for safety features government highway dept used to provide, then arguing a platform holder can keep that system closed - with a reserved right to deny a road safety company app or a government track and trace app from the store, for example - just isn't in societies interests IMO and needs to legislatively be opened.
 

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Dec 1, 2014
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The trial between tech giants Apple and Epic Games has started. But why are Fortnite developer Epic suing Apple, and why is Fortnite still unavailable on Apple and Google devices? This video explains it all.
 

DaGwaphics

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Dec 29, 2019
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They are doing binders docs now so nobody can see them and not publishing them public anymore.
They even ask Journos to left the press area and back after these are done.

Well that takes the fun out of the entire thing. The look behind the curtain was the entertaining part. Generally we only get to see the carefully curated PR statements, these unfiltered internal emails were fun reads.
 
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DaGwaphics

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Dec 29, 2019
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IMO, If a device becomes so ubiquitous that it is needed as a substitute for safety features government highway dept used to provide, then arguing a platform holder can keep that system closed - with a reserved right to deny a road safety company app or a government track and trace app from the store, for example - just isn't in societies interests IMO and needs to legislatively be opened.
I'm sure if an app like that ever got blocked it would get handled correctly in court. You can step in when needed without burning down the whole house. If apple started blocking every alternate browser or any app that competed with anything they have on there, that's an issue that should be dealt with as needed.

You have to remember, this issue with Epic isn't about a product being blocked from sale in the drugstore, it's an issue of the product vendor trying to bring a cart of the product into the store with their own cash box.

Apple has touted their closed nature as a feature from the beginning. That's what their buyers wanted. If you want to use a phone with a more open OS, you should probably get an Android.
 
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ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
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Well that takes the fun out of the entire thing. The look behind the curtain was the entertaining part. Generally we only get to see the carefully curated PR statements, these unfiltered internal emails were fun reads.
Yeap it was funny all the confidential docs being published.
 

PaintTinJr

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Jan 30, 2020
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I'm sure if an app like that ever got blocked it would get handled correctly in court.

You have to remember, this issue with Epic isn't about a product being blocked from sale in the drugstore, it's an issue of the product vendor trying to bring a cart of the product into the store with their own cash box.

Apple has touted their closed nature as a feature from the beginning. That's what their buyers wanted. If you want to us a phone with a more open OS, you should probably get an Android.
It is the same problem, because in a 50-50 iOS, Android split, Apple should never be in a position to dictate that and wield so much power over society - as a capitalist driven company. Power like that has to reside with governments, not companies IMHO.

You are also making a sweeping assumption that the vast majority of consumers understand the difference in openness of the two smartphone options. In reality I would guess the end users will be vastly ignorant to the way they've empowered Apple to dictate to society in the way their store operates, and won't understand the topic - merely assuming their elected officials act to provide suitable consumer protections and be vigilant in identify monopolies, and dealing with them.

The reality is that any app (update) submitted could be blocked initially and cause problems, as in the case of a road assistance app, fixing it in courts two years later isn't "handled" for the people that get affected by Apple's blocking of the app. That ship sails 2years earlier, does it not?
 

skit_data

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Nov 3, 2020
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Epic looking at their bridges


I really don’t understand this whole thing but by the looks of it, Epic has fucked up
 
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Zeroing

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Apple does need to catch some shit somewhere, bot not this way with tearing down ecosystems.
I agree from all the corporations that had better motives to attack Apple, Epic is the least you would expect to go for the jugular.

what will come out from this? Possibly nothing or a complete change in what we perceive an ecosystem is.

I still believe this is a complete circus and Apple will “win” but with some damage to their brand.
 

Menzies

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Mar 31, 2021
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If you want to use a phone with a more open OS, you should probably get an Android.
There has to be a delineation of when a platform grows to (say over a billion users) that the "just get an Android" argument doesn't hold water. There are so many businesses that can live or die by what Apple decides to permit or reject from their store. Consumers and enterprises can become so entrenched in the platform with purchases over the years, that the idea to move to a different platform is prohibitively expensive.
 

Zeroing

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Lol Sony getting sued now...

What a clusterfuck this is becoming.
It begins… I think more corporations are getting sued in the following weeks.
soon we will have Communist gaming industry

tear down capitalism!!!!!

now being serious
, either this will spread like wild fire… and bring a lot of unplanned changes or it will just be a “remember when Apple got sued by that fortnite company? Lolz”
 
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