Escapist Magazine retracts article about ethics in games journalism

Jan 7, 2014
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#51
I read the article and honestly, it is for the most part entirely correct.
It was just a dumb move to have it reference GamersGate. That term is so tainted, one should simply never use it - nothing can be gained from doing so. No matter the intentions.

That they chose to retract it because of the expectable outrcry from the usual suspects just goes to show why larger magazines are losing ground by the minute, while honest and independent people on YouTube, etc. are gaining ground.
People should be able to discuss Gamergate or whatever they want. Tiptoeing around it or making it taboo just empowers those who have used it as a weapon to silence rational discourse.
 

ArchaeEnkidu

Vincit qui se vincit
Jan 30, 2018
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#53
Will someone help me out? Sorry, I still can't figure it out! So, if I support Gamergate, what does that mean? And if I don't support Gamergate what does that mean? Honest question I haven't been able to figure out this whole time.
If you support or simply don't care about GamerGate, you support sexism, misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia, and harassment of women and minorities. This extends to anything you may have ever said about GamerGate in a neutral or positive statement.

If you hate GamerGate, you are a person of the people. You fight against harassment and phobias.

At least, that is what dumb cunts like Jason Schreier try to portray, or his (and other "journalist/developer") little fanclubs on regressive left sites.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
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#55
I find it sad that a small amount of people with the loudest voices are the ones that get heard, meanwhile everyone that has no problem keeps on keeping on.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that, but at some point this nonsense has to stop.

Lately it seems that there aren’t any ethics in the “journalism” it’s only don’t write shit that will get a backlash, and make sure you pander to the loudest group.

It’s like politicians with special interest groups but on a micro level.
Agreed and well said, it is doing to all kind of information services an immense deal of damage and it is not good for the general public either :/.
 
Likes: hariseldon
Oct 26, 2018
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#57
I find it sad that a small amount of people with the loudest voices are the ones that get heard, meanwhile everyone that has no problem keeps on keeping on.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that, but at some point this nonsense has to stop.

Lately it seems that there aren’t any ethics in the “journalism” it’s only don’t write shit that will get a backlash, and make sure you pander to the loudest group.

It’s like politicians with special interest groups but on a micro level.
It's more of a Western thing where politics, Twitter and social loudmouths run rampant.

Pretty sure in other countries, most people (and even the government if they got involved), would tell the whiners to fuck off.
 

Kadayi

Probable Replicant
Oct 10, 2012
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#58
others here can tell you i can argue all night baby
Please, you can't even capitalise, let alone argue. The only thing you're good for is ignoring for the most part.
As regards OP.

Well, I can't say I cared for the original article and I can't say I cared for the apology either. Game Journalism broke itself through the circle jerk nature of its professional cliques and the hivemind mentality that it fostered through social media connectivity and those it allowed to rise up the slippery ladder based on virtue signalling and sycophancy rather than professional merit to the point where any sense of the individual voice has largely been lost to a miasma of left-leaning politically correct anonymous beige that is always looking to its peer group to see which way it should jump so it's on the right side of history on all matters over the interests and wants of its ever-diminishing audience.

As for what's required for web game journalism to go forward is for some new media entities to emerge who aren't cucked to the mores of the existing toxic cliques that hold sway over most gaming sites. In large part, that mantle has already come into effect with the rise of youtube, but it would be nice to see some actual sites appear that are more about reviews, coverage and honest discussion and less about political grandstanding, hit pieces etc.
 
Jun 29, 2016
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#59
In reference to people who actively aligned themselves with GamerGate, the piece contains the following: "That concern simply doesn’t even register when compared to the pain and anxiety, harassment, and stalking some of the industry’s most creative minds have had to endure for years simply because they are female and work in gaming. I would set fire to every review score, review, and video game and then shove them all off a cliff if that would prevent anyone from having to endure that level of abuse. To those who willfully enabled and enacted this terrorism, I say this: Fuck you. You are pathetic. And we don’t need you."

The above is a good example why prostrating oneself in front of any of these online hate mobs is pointless, because the apology will never be good enough.

Otherwise, media outlets shouldn't ask readers to trust them, when they're apparently incapable of standing by their own articles in the face of Twitter personalities dictating what topics and opinions are, and are not, allowed to be covered and expressed. Pitts' editorial doesn't even warrant outrage from any camp, when it's merely an overlong regurgitation of the usual talking points: making video games is hard, writing about video games is hard, consumers deserve better. This little episode only serves as yet another example of why readers increasingly distrust outlets purporting to be video game journalism.
 

ArchaeEnkidu

Vincit qui se vincit
Jan 30, 2018
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#60
In reference to people who actively aligned themselves with GamerGate, the piece contains the following: "That concern simply doesn’t even register when compared to the pain and anxiety, harassment, and stalking some of the industry’s most creative minds have had to endure for years simply because they are female and work in gaming. I would set fire to every review score, review, and video game and then shove them all off a cliff if that would prevent anyone from having to endure that level of abuse. To those who willfully enabled and enacted this terrorism, I say this: Fuck you. You are pathetic. And we don’t need you."

The above is a good example why prostrating oneself in front of any of these online hate mobs is pointless, because the apology will never be good enough.

Otherwise, media outlets shouldn't ask readers to trust them, when they're apparently incapable of standing by their own articles in the face of Twitter personalities dictating what topics and opinions are, and are not, allowed to be covered and expressed. Pitts' editorial doesn't even warrant outrage from any camp, when it's merely an overlong regurgitation of the usual talking points: making video games is hard, writing about video games is hard, consumers deserve better. This little episode only serves as yet another example of why readers increasingly distrust outlets purporting to be video game journalism.
There is definitely harassment within the industry towards females and minorities - but that is a thing with *any* career and it can go both ways with white males being harassed (just look at nursing, elementary school teaching, and babysitting in many parts of the US).

I was honestly excited for Escapist to return - it was my stomping ground for many years, but I moved on as it slowly died after 2012 or so. Disappointed that Russ is a spineless jellyfish who can't seem to get his lips removed from ZQ's ass cheeks.
 
Jun 29, 2016
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#61
There is definitely harassment within the industry towards females and minorities...
I'm not certain on the intention behind the above statement, so just for clarity, I don't refute instances of harassment exist, but this reality shouldn't ever be used to negate attempts at broaching the subject, except from those deemed worthy by the gods of Twitter.

But as you mentioned, it's disappointing to see someone crumble in their conviction, particularly from an article both condemning GamterGate, while also only broadly touching on the situation.
 
Likes: hariseldon

ArchaeEnkidu

Vincit qui se vincit
Jan 30, 2018
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#62
I'm not certain on the intention behind the above statement, so just for clarity, I don't refute instances of harassment exist, but this reality shouldn't ever be used to negate attempts at broaching the subject, except from those deemed worthy by the gods of Twitter.

But as you mentioned, it's disappointing to see someone crumble in their conviction, particularly from an article both condemning GamterGate, while also only broadly touching on the situation.
The only intention was that I, personally, do agree that there are issues within the industry - but they are not nearly as common and problematic as he lets on. It also isn't an issue specifically with gaming, but with any industry.
 
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Likes: hariseldon
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#65
Yup. Unsurprisingly, Pitts was full of shit. Like a shyster, always coming up with ways to sell a product. First, it was “no politics”. Then it was this thing, which he knew would get him in hot water but was worth it for the hits.

There’s no ethics in journalism, period. It’s all about the almighty dollar, because it’s a business. The difference is that it’s a lot easier to see now than ever. This goes for “games journalism”, which is enthusiast media at best.
 
Likes: StormCell

Kadayi

Probable Replicant
Oct 10, 2012
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#68
1. I thought the Escapist reboot was supposed to get back to games and ignore politics

2. Backing down to their threats is going to lose them the audience that wanted to read them because of reason 1.
It would be nice to think so, but you have to remember that as he points out in the very article Pitts was one of the founding members of Polygon and we all know the hiring choices they made in terms of mindset.

Reviewing the article again I think one of the notable takeaways is the abject lack of contrition on the part of how the gaming press played things when matters came to a head. There's no sense that perhaps attacking the audience wasn't the smartest of plays after all, let alone to go running to old media who were more than happy to run with whatever narrative they felt like to the detriment of all.
 
Oct 21, 2014
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#72
If you support or simply don't care about GamerGate, you support sexism, misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia, and harassment of women and minorities. This extends to anything you may have ever said about GamerGate in a neutral or positive statement.

If you hate GamerGate, you are a person of the people. You fight against harassment and phobias.
Ah thanks. Usually -gate refers to scandalous events that all agree were bad, the press and the public alike. It confuses me that the term refers to gamergaters as people and separates the games media and the players.

It's all such a pathetic "joke" that only really relates to the radical left "gaming journalists" and their clique. Fuck 'em.
 
Aug 22, 2018
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#74
*sigh* We're in a bad place. The thing is, as @Hudo observes, abuse is just what happens on Twitter, whichever side of any given debate you're on, but now one can weaponise it by saying that you can't discuss x because it'll generate abuse, or generated abuse in the past, the problem being that EVERYTHING generates abuse, which means that anyone can shut anyone down by claiming this (though in reality only one side is allowed to use it because only one side is considered to be abusive by the people in charge, at Twitter and in the media). This is a dangerous situation. Think for a minute about how difficult it now is for anyone to detail any new unethical behaviour they find. And of course that's the whole fucking point. The problem is, the guys giving abuse, while complete arseholes, aren't the ones who put us in this place. Nope. The ones who put us in this place are the skilled social manipulators who took the situation and turned it into weaponised victimhood, such that one can no longer call any game journalist out on their misbehaviour.
 
Aug 22, 2018
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#76
Until you prove it (simply saying it isn't evidence,) this is fake news.
It's a thing, you can search twitter, but the key point is that EVERYONE gets harassed on Twitter. That the harassment is racist or misogynist makes no difference in the end, harassment is harassment, and it all feels shitty. It's not acceptable to use its existence as a reason to stop people discussing certain topics though, because that opens the floodgates for abuse, see my previous post.
 
Apr 17, 2018
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#78
The problem with Pitts article is it lacks focus and substance.

He was clearly worried that by bringing up the subject of ethics in gaming journalism people would accuse him of being a gamergater. So he spends multiple paragraphs denouncing GG in the strongest terms before moving on to what he really wants to talk about.

Then when we get to that it's a bit scattershot and doesn't do much to advance the conversation or direct focus on a particular issue. Leaving the most prominent parts of the article to be about GG.

It's possible to talk about ethics in gaming without invoking GG. Jim Sterling frequently has a go at publishers and devs over ethics without trouble. Ethics in journalism is tainted by GG but not untouchable. So if you're a major publication you need a solid reason to bring it up because of the risk of people from both sides of GG getting defensive and aggressive about it.

Pitts would have been far better off taking one of the points he mentions, such as his 'journalists are squeezed' section, and having a deeper look at what is currently going on and discussing what issues are there that affect us now. And importantly make sure they are worth discussing. There's no need to mention GG. And if people bring it up, he could have comfortably said, 'I'm not the one bringing up GG, I want to talk about these current issues.' As soon as he lost the ability to respond like that it undermines anything he was attempting to do.
 
Jul 14, 2018
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#80
Is this the same Escapist Magazine who, 2 days ago, cried about Dune's protagonist being white?

http://archive.is/JRScB
I know it's not your point but I have no issue with that article. Frank Herbert makes some quite obvious references to colonialism throughout the Dune series.

I think therein lies the difference: the author wasn't reaching for a point and making shit up for the sake of it like we see sometimes see in games criticism. The political nature of today's world makes it highly suspect of course but what the author says was technically true when the book first came out in 1965.

I don't know what the random book he mentions at the end is though and maybe it seems a bit silly to compare it to something as brilliant and culturally influential as Dune.
 
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Jul 26, 2018
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#81
It's a thing, you can search twitter, but the key point is that EVERYONE gets harassed on Twitter. That the harassment is racist or misogynist makes no difference in the end, harassment is harassment, and it all feels shitty. It's not acceptable to use its existence as a reason to stop people discussing certain topics though, because that opens the floodgates for abuse, see my previous post.
Is there actually a viable alternative to Twitter? I have thought about whether being on Twitter is really necessary. It has benefits. It is quite convenient to use, I guess. But the downside to that is what we're seeing now. I'm not sure how a solution to this whole mess could look like. Can there be discussion without harassment? Is moderating/banning harassment the right way to go? Of course, the utopian thing would be that people get their shit together and just behave in a civil manner. But that's never going to happen. Not sure what can be done to solve this...

Maybe to have an option for your Twitter account to deactivate comments? Like Youtube videos?
 
Likes: hariseldon
Nov 19, 2006
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#82
Is there actually a viable alternative to Twitter? I have thought about whether being on Twitter is really necessary. It has benefits. It is quite convenient to use, I guess. But the downside to that is what we're seeing now. I'm not sure how a solution to this whole mess could look like. Can there be discussion without harassment? Is moderating/banning harassment the right way to go? Of course, the utopian thing would be that people get their shit together and just behave in a civil manner. But that's never going to happen. Not sure what can be done to solve this...

Maybe to have an option for your Twitter account to deactivate comments? Like Youtube videos?
When you post things in a very public forum like Twitter, for the world to see, you take the good engagement with the bad. Nine times out of ten, the “harassment police” aren’t coming up your aid, even if you report someone for such actions.

Want to say what you want and limit potential harassment? Make your social media accounts private and be discerning when it comes to who gets to look at your posts by limiting friends/followers.

Sure, it’d be nice if people treated each other in a decent, friendly manner— but that’s just not the world we live in. Harassment, bullying, teasing... these are common and accepted behaviors on social media, and that’s not changing.
 
Jul 14, 2018
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#83
Is there actually a viable alternative to Twitter? I have thought about whether being on Twitter is really necessary. It has benefits. It is quite convenient to use, I guess. But the downside to that is what we're seeing now. I'm not sure how a solution to this whole mess could look like. Can there be discussion without harassment? Is moderating/banning harassment the right way to go? Of course, the utopian thing would be that people get their shit together and just behave in a civil manner. But that's never going to happen. Not sure what can be done to solve this...

Maybe to have an option for your Twitter account to deactivate comments? Like Youtube videos?
For individuals? I think it's unnecessary unless you're trying to create a personal brand. You can see why it's important to journalists that way.
 
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#85
Read the article, but this is all best summarized in the reductive, clickbait-y manner of today's media:

"How Do We Finally Talk About Ethics?"

"we don't."

It's infuriating, to be honest. There are valid points here - on both sides, surely - but these people just make everything they don't like to talk about radioactive.

Gamergate is a fascinating period, and deserves an honest post-mortem. Fuck these children getting away with this shout-down nonsense.

Silver lining: one less active Twitter user.
 
Aug 17, 2012
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#87
1. I thought the Escapist reboot was supposed to get back to games and ignore politics

2. Backing down to their threats is going to lose them the audience that wanted to read them because of reason 1.
Yeah reason 1 was something i hoped for, but then the shit out an article like Dune’s Paul Atreides Is the Ultimate Mighty Whitey and loose any credibility.
Crash and burn escapist, hope your journalists learned to code.
 
Apr 19, 2018
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#88
It's infuriating, to be honest. There are valid points here - on both sides, surely - but these people just make everything they don't like to talk about radioactive.
.
There are no valid points from opponents of gamergate.
From straight to finish it was smear campaign.

It didn't even start with Zoe.

It started because every major site BANNED talk about it which smelled hard and caused Baldwin to tweet #GamerGate which coalesced what was going on. Journalists/sites against gamers. So you had first Journalists sleeping with chick for coverage and then major sites banning all talk about it. GEEE what do you think happened ?

The point here is that it wouldn't even be a thing if story just died on its own on forums etc like every other story. It was already dying at that point. Neogaf also was the best place to cover it RIGHT and disarm it but evilore was in his sjw spell and also banned all talk about it which guaranteed Streisand effect not stopping. Even fucking 4chan banned all talk about it.

Guess no one learned anything from Barbara if they thought this will not backfire.

That banwave caused Baldwin to tweet #gamergate which started gamergate.

Then day later after Baldwin Tweet and Ban wave, string of articles "gamers are dead".
At that point people smelled that all of them are in cabal with each other because how organized it was.

Just few days later notorious Mylo provided proof. Old chat room when all of them talked about future of journalist who was let of from one site and how most of them decided to not hire him because of what he believed.

VOILA you have now powderkeg and proved gamergate right. There is cabal of journalist who dictate what is going to be topic of the day and they all decided to cover for themselves when Zoe post hit. It doesn't take einstain to connect two things and maybe some of those people contacted site owners etc to shut down discussions about it.

From that point on attention whores joined train in name of Sarkesian, Wu and other who tried to outcomepete each-other whom is the most herased. Obviously like fearful victims they were they shoveled shit on twitter proving everyone that their "victimhood" is all fake and they are just attention whores.

Since third wave feminists joined wave it also came out how many of them are in field and to surprise of many shitload of "journalists" turned out to be crazy feminists who would wish for death of white straight male aka titular gamer some of which wrote those "gamers are dead" articles.

From this point "enemies" were identified. Bloggers acting as journalists were just tentacle of bigger monster, the true name of the beast was "inter-sectional feminists". What started as some post of cheated guy who wanted to get back at his cheating girlfriend completely unmasked the ideology that previous hid itself in academia and took over it in past 10 years and creep out into parts of life.

This whole thing snowballed and soon even memes and people who used them were cast into teams.

What gamergate accomplished:
- forced almost every journalist gaming site to update their statement about ethics. ONLY thanks to gamergate sites were competed to not get swag etc from publishers.
- clearly identified intersectionalist ideology in media that oppose games as people like them. Not only for games but for everyone else too. Which is why gamergate didn't end with games and it rippled in comix industry, sci-fi etc.
- clearly thought everyone that gaming journalism is joke and no one should care about what they write anymore. Since gamergate most of people switched to youtubers, twitch etc to look for their news and reviews. While there are issues there like unannounced sponsoring of videos everyone hides with it because they know backlash will be huge so most don't even try it.
- broke neogaf in two thanks to emboldening of intersectional feminists and coming out of woodwork after GG which neogaf was main hive in forum space. Evilore ended up tasting its full medicine which caused split.
- games are fun movement. People now seriously watch what developers say and clearly see if developers priority is to give best fun they can make or to make political points in which case they imminently get shoveled shit at which causes bunch of drama but also cost sales.
- defense of games that don't want that ideology garbage in their games. Kingdom Come is best example of this.

Personally i wish Evillore would just allow for thread to go on back then so it would disarm but it would happen sooner or later either way. Because when you have ideology and you want to enforce it on others then there will be a pushback.
 
Aug 22, 2018
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#90
There are no valid points from opponents of gamergate.
From straight to finish it was smear campaign.

It didn't even start with Zoe.

It started because every major site BANNED talk about it which smelled hard and caused Baldwin to tweet #GamerGate which coalesced what was going on. Journalists/sites against gamers. So you had first Journalists sleeping with chick for coverage and then major sites banning all talk about it. GEEE what do you think happened ?

The point here is that it wouldn't even be a thing if story just died on its own on forums etc like every other story. It was already dying at that point. Neogaf also was the best place to cover it RIGHT and disarm it but evilore was in his sjw spell and also banned all talk about it which guaranteed Streisand effect not stopping. Even fucking 4chan banned all talk about it.

Guess no one learned anything from Barbara if they thought this will not backfire.

That banwave caused Baldwin to tweet #gamergate which started gamergate.

Then day later after Baldwin Tweet and Ban wave, string of articles "gamers are dead".
At that point people smelled that all of them are in cabal with each other because how organized it was.

Just few days later notorious Mylo provided proof. Old chat room when all of them talked about future of journalist who was let of from one site and how most of them decided to not hire him because of what he believed.

VOILA you have now powderkeg and proved gamergate right. There is cabal of journalist who dictate what is going to be topic of the day and they all decided to cover for themselves when Zoe post hit. It doesn't take einstain to connect two things and maybe some of those people contacted site owners etc to shut down discussions about it.

From that point on attention whores joined train in name of Sarkesian, Wu and other who tried to outcomepete each-other whom is the most herased. Obviously like fearful victims they were they shoveled shit on twitter proving everyone that their "victimhood" is all fake and they are just attention whores.

Since third wave feminists joined wave it also came out how many of them are in field and to surprise of many shitload of "journalists" turned out to be crazy feminists who would wish for death of white straight male aka titular gamer some of which wrote those "gamers are dead" articles.

From this point "enemies" were identified. Bloggers acting as journalists were just tentacle of bigger monster, the true name of the beast was "inter-sectional feminists". What started as some post of cheated guy who wanted to get back at his cheating girlfriend completely unmasked the ideology that previous hid itself in academia and took over it in past 10 years and creep out into parts of life.

This whole thing snowballed and soon even memes and people who used them were cast into teams.

What gamergate accomplished:
- forced almost every journalist gaming site to update their statement about ethics. ONLY thanks to gamergate sites were competed to not get swag etc from publishers.
- clearly identified intersectionalist ideology in media that oppose games as people like them. Not only for games but for everyone else too. Which is why gamergate didn't end with games and it rippled in comix industry, sci-fi etc.
- clearly thought everyone that gaming journalism is joke and no one should care about what they write anymore. Since gamergate most of people switched to youtubers, twitch etc to look for their news and reviews. While there are issues there like unannounced sponsoring of videos everyone hides with it because they know backlash will be huge so most don't even try it.
- broke neogaf in two thanks to emboldening of intersectional feminists and coming out of woodwork after GG which neogaf was main hive in forum space. Evilore ended up tasting its full medicine which caused split.
- games are fun movement. People now seriously watch what developers say and clearly see if developers priority is to give best fun they can make or to make political points in which case they imminently get shoveled shit at which causes bunch of drama but also cost sales.
- defense of games that don't want that ideology garbage in their games. Kingdom Come is best example of this.

Personally i wish Evillore would just allow for thread to go on back then so it would disarm but it would happen sooner or later either way. Because when you have ideology and you want to enforce it on others then there will be a pushback.
Thanks for that rather interesting post - I'm wondering if you could point to any links for viewing that chatroom content, I'd be curious to see it.
 
Aug 24, 2018
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#91
seriously fuck these ppl, it sickens me how weak the anti SJW crowd is.... everyone who has a Twitter account needs to contact these ppl and let them know that gaming isn’t theirs....and these companies who amplify it (waypoint/ Frankfurt school etc) need to feel the wrath of gamers.... remember Austin Walker cries all the time about how their social/ political pieces get very little traction lol
 
Likes: Doczu
Sep 17, 2012
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#92
The "Sjw" must have very good lawyers and connections within the Democratic Party. Bringing Zoe Quin and Annita to the UN demonstrated this. No wonder very few gaming sites and forums would dare go against their will.
 
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#93
I read the article and honestly, it is for the most part entirely correct.
It was just a dumb move to have it reference GamersGate. That term is so tainted, one should simply never use it - nothing can be gained from doing so. No matter the intentions.

That they chose to retract it because of the expectable outrcry from the usual suspects just goes to show why larger magazines are losing ground by the minute, while honest and independent people on YouTube, etc. are gaining ground.
This is my basic stance on the issue as well. The term is so loaded with baggage it becomes pointless to introduce it unless you want to talk specifically about it.

What's interesting though is that even if one completely disavows GG and then makes points about other things you will still have well connected people "interpreting" what you are REALLY saying. Jason Schreier from Kotaku said "it's hard not to see The Escapist's But why aren't we talking ethics in game journalism??? as a dog whistle for the worst people."

So we are in a spot where criticism of certain people is a "dog whistle" to certain other people. Basically putting the first group above criticism. WTF?


A huge question for me coming out of this is exactly how much clout does ZQ have in Games Journalism circles?
How much clout does ZQ have on the indie scene?
How much influence, if any, does she have with larger companies in the industry.

Keep in mind that this article is so tame and so non-controversial, really. It's not like he is saying something mental like "We Need To Bring Back GamerGate".

Russ Pitts shares this tame and neutral article and gets called out by ZQ for not contacting her about the piece.
Lady, you wrote an entire fucking book about GG there is literally nothing more you could add to the conversation.
Was she maybe expecting to be offered some money for a comment in the article?
Russ Pitts then basically, and correctly, told her to piss off.

Fast forward a couple of days and the article is taken down and a grovelling apology is published instead.
What the hell happened?

I mean the apology article literally contains a personal apology to ZQ.

"To Zoe Quinn and everyone who rightfully admires her resilience in the face of a terrible ordeal: I am genuinely sorry I diminished your experience of abuse. I should not have spoken to you that way. Not in public. Not in private. Not anywhere. I don’t expect your forgiveness. You and your followers deserve to know that I am aware of how horrible I was to you, and that I genuinely regret having those thoughts, much less expressing them."

It begs the question, as I said before, how much clout does she have in these circles and who is she connected to that this is the end result of an article that HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HER,

Let's keep in mind that a very similar thing happened to Tim Soret when the trailer for The Last Night was revealed. ZQ goes on a Twitter complaining session and a day later the dude is being interviewed about his upcoming game and has to spend time apologizing for I don't know what. Then every mention of the game now comes with some comment on the developers connection to "GG".

Again, what's the story here?

As a thought experiment let's say an indie dev has made a game all by himself and is one week from release with serious buzz around the game.
Then he tweets something crazy like "Fuck, ZQ and the horse she rode in on".
How likely is it that the game would then be banned from Steam? PS Store? Etc.
Would the game be dropped from discussion on certain forums or websites?

I assume if a writer for, say, Polygon decided to say something like "ZQ is full of shit" they would be fired for sure?

How can one person have that level of control? Or is it not that she has any control at all but rather larger entities are just mindlessly keeping her protected? I just don't get how we go from a pretty middle of the road and uncontroversial article to the article is deleted and a grovelling apology is issued?


Plus, I don't care what anyone says, the situation with ZQ, Depression Quest, games journalists etc WAS a scandal.
Now, of course it wasn't a huge scandal and it was ultimately blown WAY out of proportion but they situation still wasn't great.

Lads, I enjoy indie games and I am more than happy to support them. They let me down a lot less than expensive shite like Destiny 2 or SW Battlefront.
If I see a decent AMA (ask me anything) from developers on the Nintendo Switch subreddit and I think the devs seem nice I will buy their game just to try it.

So if I see a load of buzz about an indie game and it then turns out that the people generating that buzz are close friends, partners whatever with the devs, and that relationship is not disclosed, then I won't be angry but I will be disappointed and annoyed.

For example, I really really really do not wish to find out that the new indie title with a ton of awards got those awards just because the developer is close buddies with the award giver. It's not cool. I don't want to say "this game is getting nice coverage from people I trust so I will buy it" only to discover that the person going on about how great the game is has been fucking the dev all along. That's not cool.

So, yeah, a scandal like that is worth talking about because it reveals at least the possibility of corruption and deception in the indie scene.
As a consumer and supporter of indie games I don't want to feel like I am being lied to or tricked into buying something or supporting something.

I can't have that though because any time these ethical issues are brought up there is an outcry about "dog whistles" and the like.

This article and it's subsequent apology do not reflect well on the "games journalism" clique AT ALL.
It makes it look like they are still actively covering for each other.
 
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Oct 24, 2017
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The "Sjw" must have very good lawyers and connections within the Democratic Party. Bringing Zoe Quin and Annita to the UN demonstrated this. No wonder very few gaming sites and forums would dare go against their will.
For the UN this was too embarrassing so they removed it from their site later on.
 
Likes: petran79
Oct 2, 2018
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#95
Reading some other stuff about this and I'm not really even sure what the "anti-GG" narrative is supposed to be.

Like, I am not going to believe that nerds just woke up one morning in 2014 and decided "you know what, there are women in videogames and online and that just won't do".

I get the ZQ scandal and I get that some of the responses and reactions were out of order. Definitely too many people went way to far with it and she was treated unfairly, in my opinion.

I don't know how that gets expanded out to "manbabies are just mad that there's women in gaming now". Suddenly it's not just "a developer and a journalist were involved in a scandal". It has grown to "people are trying to get rid of every single female in the industry".

Even Russ Pitts tweeted out "my wife was harassed and threatened by GG for simply being a woman in games media" but what does that even mean?
People just said "hey, we found ANOTHER one, a woman simply existing in games media, GET HER"?
Do folks not see how utterly ludicrous that sounds?

What was the absolute worst of the worst from GG, who did it and what was the motivation behind it?

Even going to the much derided "GG subreddit" KotakuInAction, a lot of it is just "meh". Boring. Uninteresting.
Certainly biased against mainstream media, games media and "SJWs".
However it is absolutely NOT the cauldron of anger and hate you are led to believe.
I was expecting some crazy stuff but it's just so... dull. Four years later, sure, but still.
 
Aug 17, 2012
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#96
I was expecting some crazy stuff but it's just so... dull. Four years later, sure, but still.
That's because most of the hate is non existing. Seriously, a lot of the "hate mail, threats and stuff" never happened or was fabricated.
The journalists (lets group them for a moment), with the SJW crowd cried wolf so many times people stopped reading about it.
You get the outburst every now and then, trying to get some more brownie points and putting people back in line, but the "gg" is over.
The usual snowflakes still try to get back into the spotlight, like Zoë. The last time with the Paper Maeio "controversy". That shit was funny and cringy at the same time.
 
Likes: Tahj
Dec 3, 2018
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#97
The most important issue facing society in the 21st century is control over the media. Who gets to decide which stories to talk about? Who gets to decide how they are portrayed? And who gets to decide who and how these stories are shared and commented on?

GamerGate was the first, and by far not the last, of the moments when people sort of woke up and said, “we’re being manipulated, and that just won’t do”. It’s gotten worse since then, with Twitter banning people for sharing stories, Facebook hiding conservative news, CNN telling people it is illegal to read WikiLeaks, and how the DNC treated Bernie supporters at the convention (using white noise machines, locking them out, ShareBlue taking over /r/politics).

GamerGate was largely a response to the media manipulation surrounding Sarkeesian, even though the catalyst which brought them together as a movement was something else. People really believed the harassment narrative too easily. But a lot of gamers started going, “Completely separate from the harassment, why can’t we talk about how fucking wrong she is?” Then, they’d get called harassers and go, “I didn’t harass anyone” and start to realize that maybe a lot more people were being unfairly labeled as harassers. And they wondered if maybe there was something more sinister at work. That was really the first time people started waking up to the power of social media to control a narrative. More people are aware of it these days, but are still completely powerless to do anything about it.

I was actually permananned from ResetERA after saying that the other posters were all living in fear, unable to share their true feelings without the threat of being banned. Several other posters said, don’t be absurd. They don’t ban you like that. You are free to talk about whatever you want. I said, okay, I;m a member of GamerGate and I want o talk about ethics in journalism. Permabanned within seconds for being a member of a “well known hate group”. I’m not even a member of GamerGate, but I at least know they aren’t a hate group.
 
Apr 19, 2018
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Thanks for that rather interesting post - I'm wondering if you could point to any links for viewing that chatroom content, I'd be curious to see it.
Honestly speaking i am spent today. Don't want to delve into old subject again. Just read it yourself:

http://www.deepfreeze.it/article.php?a=gjp

The "Sjw" must have very good lawyers and connections within the Democratic Party. Bringing Zoe Quin and Annita to the UN demonstrated this. No wonder very few gaming sites and forums would dare go against their will.
Well they ARE in power. They got middle menagement which creeps into high management and tries to enforce this retarded ideology on everyone else. Redpill documentary showed this exactly.
 
Aug 22, 2018
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Thanks for the link @Dontero - pretty shocking stuff. Apologies for stupidity, there was genuinely stuff I wasn't aware of. Tbh the deeper into the rabbit hole I dig, the more horrendous shit I find from these journalists. I feel like things like that mailing list aren't enormously known outside of the more hardcore gg circles, probably due to Milo being involved, but also because of course the journalists aren't going to cover their own problems, and any who do presumably risk being blacklisted. It's a hell of a messy business.