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Eurogamer: BotW running on CEMU showing remarkable progress

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Durante

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Oct 1, 2006
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If emulation is morally and ethically fine, why have Nintendo, Sega, and Sony all tried to stop it via lawsuits?
Is this a real question? I mean seriously?

The answer is because mega-corporations don't give a flying fuck what is morally, ethically and legally right, what they care about is maximizing their profits using any means possible.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 11, 2010
42,661
37
860
I never argued that stealing the game is ok. I think you are misconstruing what I'm arguing entirely. What I'm saying is that if my intentions are pure, I'm not all that worried that other people might be using this bad things. And I realize that this is almost venturing into gun control territory where I sound like a "guns don't kill people, people do" advocate. And I want to note that I'm just using that as a springboard here and really, really don't want to turn this thread into a gun control debate. But using that as an inspiration, I'll admit that it is of interest to try and determine actual negative impact from this. Like if you told me that you could definitively prove that Nintendo lost "X millions of sales" from this and that of all the people playing the game on CEMU, only 10 had legitimately bought a copy, that might give me pause. I might conclude that this emulator's existence is doing more harm than good in the grand scheme of things. But if it's just "any piracy is bad and thus this is bad!" then I don't find this particularly compelling.

I don't want to stir the nest here but reading this is funny because every thread on emulation/piracy (not your posts specifically, mind) of those insufferable dudes who confront people or cops about what is and isn't their right.

Like, if you bring up piracy in a thread about emulation, suddenly 50 legal scholars descend from the rafters to tell you in no uncertain terms how legally what's being done isn't piracy and anyone would be stupid to think so (again, not you) when clearly emulation and piracy are inextricably linked at the very least by the past practices of the piracy community.

Again, I don't want to be the target of insufferable lecturing on specific legalities afforded by this or that law here, I just wanted to draw a parallel between you mentioning gun rights advocates and my analogy.
 

RoadHazard

Member
Dec 9, 2008
20,935
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That is a factually distinct scenario, as Pirate Bay provided links to directly download copyrighted material. YEs, there is a question whether they actually provided the material, but they at least allowed you to search and access them.

Cemu does no such thing or anything remotely similar.

CEMU enables you to play pirated Wii U games on your PC. If it hadn't existed you couldn't. So it's at least a little bit similar.
 

Mega

Banned
Oct 31, 2007
3,689
1
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Fun stuff:
People were able to emulate Ocarina of Time 64 back then as well. The game logic was 100% perfect, just some bad effects in some parts.

It's not really the same as the current situation with BOTW. The majority of Americans did not have a computer in the home in 1998, especially not one with Internet and capable enough to emulate N64 titles at all. Plus how to get everything (emulator, rom) and set it up... it was all much more obscure back then. I knew about this at the time because of coverage in EGM and I can tell you exactly zero of my school and neighborhood friends had the capability of doing this. It was a non-option for most, even the few of us with home computers. Competent, affordable PC gaming in any form was nebulous and out of reach for a lot of people until the 2000s.
 

Sini

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May 22, 2012
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What the fuck is wrong with you? You want to throw people in a cage over this? You want to deprive a human being of their freedom and bodily autonomy because they played a video gams for free??

Notice how he only seems to care about BotW...

This was pretty decent post on previous page:

I dunno if it's a Nintendo-centric issue as much as it is a Zelda Fanboy-centric issue.

Zelda is a huge title from Nintendo. Five years, 400 people and millions of dollars were spent on this title and folks enjoying the game largely feel like Nintendo should probably be paid for their work.

It's not often that a console title gets emulated so soon after release, as most people associate emulation with reliving games from decades ago, reliving memories of games no longer sold new at retail.

Since Zelda is a fresh new title that's still purchasable on store shelves, they associate emulation with piracy, since you likely didn't pay for those games you're playing from decades ago, so those individuals playing Zelda on their PCs now aren't likely paying for it either.

It doesn't help that some of the more...cultish PC gaming folks seem to be almost allergic to consoles, like they would rather burn down their home than own one. Becuase of this they also feel like they're either: a) Not deserving of Zelda in some way and b) Most likely not paying for it because they don't have a console to rip it from in the first place.

And that's really about it. Fanboys feel like Nintendo should be paid for their hard work and Emulation, they feel, is piracy, so they feel the need to defend it.
 

Slayven

Member
Dec 10, 2004
121,783
7
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USA
Once again, false. Ownership of the hardware is not a requirement, since the emulator does not use any kind of BIOS files. You just need a Wii U to be able to dump it, but it doesn't matter if it's yours, lent by a friend or rented for a day.

TAB to check what is in the tablet screen. Mouse to emulate the touch. On games where the screen is mirrored on both, you can just use the mouse on the main screen and it will translate it to the second.

Does that work when you have there is game play elements that requires the tablet?
 

joecanada

Member
Nov 15, 2013
5,886
1
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Now that I understand CEMU isn't piracy at all (and awesome), is there anything Nintendo could do to stop people from downloading Breath of the Wild illegally on the internet?

If I see anyone in real life do that, is there anything I could do about it?
I'm sure calling the cops won't do shit but technically it is illegal, right? How do I get those people arrested?

lol how do you get these people arrested? you don't. so spend your time on something more constructive.
 
Aug 20, 2015
1,513
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Copyright infringement is a civil offense not a "crime" at least not in most cases. Nintendo may sue anyone who illegally downloads a copy of their software, just like the music or film/TV industries can and do.

They can also request takedown of any site that hosts their copyrighted material, and clearly they do, to the extent they go after youtubers who use footage of their games in videos.

Great, thanks for the response!
How do you make Nintendo sue those people who download the game illegally? Just contact them and give them those people's info?
is there a way to start a investigation to shut down websites with pirate game links?
 
Aug 20, 2015
1,513
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What the fuck is wrong with you? You want to throw people in a cage over this? You want to deprive a human being of their freedom and bodily autonomy because they played a video game for free??

You do not understand, it's part of my job because I work at the industy (Asia).
I am all for emulating and game preserving, but pirating shouldn't be allowed, at least in my country.
 

Jebusman

Banned
Nov 10, 2013
2,789
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CEMU enables you to play pirated Wii U games on your PC. If it hadn't existed you couldn't. So it's at least a little bit similar.

I mean not really.

The proper equivalent is that CEMU would be the BitTorrent protocol (or the mainline BitTorrent client). It is a piece of software that can download files to your computer. The software offers no method of searching, gathering, obtaining torrents of any time. It is simply the software that interprets them.

Now if someone offered a program or website that actively offered a method to Nintendo games, even if not from them directly, that would be the equivalent of The Pirate Bay. They aren't in charge of actively downloading it for you, nor do they know what to do with it. They just point you to where you can get the stuff. They "enable" you to obtain it.

So long as CEMU does not ever offer any method of actively downloading games outside of Nintendo's legal permission, they stay clean.
 

shandy706

Member
May 3, 2011
15,994
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Clemson Tiger Country
Great, thanks for the response!
How do you make Nintendo sue those people who download the game illegally? Just contact them and give them those people's info?
is there a way to start a police investigation to shut down websites with pirate game links?

You do not understand, it's part of my job because I work at the industy (Asia).

You sound young, I don't mean that to be an insult...but there's no way the police or going to shut down HUNDREDS of sites. The second you close one, two more would show up.

I mean...one could try, which is fine...but it's just a battle of containment rather than elimination.
 
Jul 15, 2012
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Well since this is the most active CEMU thread atm, may as well repost here:
Somebody please help me. This is what my dump folder looks like:

And this is the AOC folder:


My Mario Kart 8 DLC will not show up in CEMU :/
What am I doing wrong?

I want Zelda DLC to work if I end up buying it in the future!
 

ViolentP

Member
Jan 13, 2009
6,744
1,192
1,410
Now that I understand CEMU isn't piracy at all (and awesome), is there anything Nintendo could do to stop people from downloading Breath of the Wild illegally on the internet?

If I see anyone in real life do that, is there anything I could do about it?
I'm sure calling the cops won't do shit but technically it is illegal, right? How do I get those people arrested?

Nobody likes a rat, bruv.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sep 9, 2006
27,409
3
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Let's live in a lovely world where we can emulate every game upon release from Nintendo, Sony and MS in 4k easily from day 1. I'm sure Sony and Nintendo would love this and out more resources to making first party games and this wouldn't effect them

I know you are exaggerating but thats exactly the reason why you always will have this type of responses on Emulation threads. GAF is more than just a gaming forum, we have lengthy discussions about sales, finances, dev studios/publishers closing down etc. .... so many users are more invested in the know-how and will react defensive on whatever they perceive as danger for their hobby/games they like.

Obv. Nintendo wont die on Zelda piracy but at the same having console exclusives being available like this around the same time of the release will have it effect at some point.
 

MUnited83

For you.
Dec 14, 2013
26,816
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CEMU enables you to play pirated Wii U games on your PC. If it hadn't existed you couldn't. So it's at least a little bit similar.
You're making the wrong comparison.

Piratebay had direct links to pirated files despite not hosting them themselves.
CEMU doesn't link to anything. Cemu plays a certain kind of files, it doesn't redirect you to the place to get them. Going after them would be like going against VLC for being a media player people can watch pirated movies with. Or going after Kodi for the same reason.
 

Lifeline

Member
Jun 15, 2015
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Great, thanks for the response!
How do you make Nintendo sue those people who download the game illegally? Just contact them and give them those people's info?
is there a way to start a investigation to shut down websites with pirate game links?

You can't do anything. Any piracy website out there you can find, Nintendo already knows about. They have lawyers that handle all this. You can't do anything to those websites without doing something illegal yourself.

But honestly I like the idea of you calling Nintendo support and complaining about piracy websites, so please go ahead.
 

Peltz

Member
Apr 26, 2014
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I'm trying to be clearer here. My actual argument is simply that the existence of a tool being able to be used to do harm does not automatically invalidate its good intentions. I do acknowledge that the harmful usage is so vast that it's worth considering that it does way more harm than good. However, there has to be some good faith attempt at measuring this impact. The fact that this will probably be utilized for some piracy is not in and of itself compelling.

Okay, allow me to clear up my argument too. Even if it does more good than harm, but steps were not taken to mitigate the harm to the extent possible, then the good intentions and good outcomes don't necessarily make the behavior that also led to bad outcomes okay. Measuring the impact is less possible (thus, less important) than measuring the precautions taken.

There is no reason why a build of this emulator which could play Zelda needed to come out so soon after the game's release other than to maximize popularity of the emulator and/or its engineers.

I think we should hold authors of emulators of current systems to a higher standard for mitigating the risk of harm to sales in the name of preservation. In other words, they should hold off on releasing the build of an emulator that can play Zelda for a longer period of time to mitigate any potential harm to sale to the extent that is practical. Maybe a few months, or maybe a year or two depending on the game, its popularity, and its sales.
 

EvilKatarn

Member
Dec 17, 2012
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So much heat and passion.

I'm sure you're all also this heated and passionate about the morality of your iphones and nintendos being built with child slave labour.
 

billyxci

13 year old console warrior. Put me on ignore.
Aug 3, 2014
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I have a wii u and a copy of zelda but would love to also play it on my PC. i just have no idea how to get the game onto my pc.
 
Aug 20, 2015
1,513
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Taichung, Taiwan
You sound young, I don't mean that to be an insult...but there's no way the police or going to shut down HUNDREDS of sites. The second you close one, two more would show up.

I mean...one could try, which is fine...but it's just a battle of containment rather than elimination.

Maybe It's because I am not native English speaker so I can't really express my question very well.
And yes, I am young and I'm new to the industry (again, Asia).
Still, thank you very much for the information.

I think I understand everything perfectly now, it's just that there isn't a way to solve the issue, yet.
 

shandy706

Member
May 3, 2011
15,994
6
0
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Exactly, he is right.....$132,000 per person is awful.


Looking at that, it's a miracle I can afford to get up in the morning.

Is that a joke???

Maybe It's because I am not native English speaker so I can't really express my question very well.

Thank you very much for the information.

That's fine :). I don't have anything against going after thieves and pirates. Go for it...it's not something that you can simply call police over though.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 18, 2012
14,311
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CEMU enables you to play pirated Wii U games on your PC. If it hadn't existed you couldn't. So it's at least a little bit similar.

CEMU also allows you to play your own copy of a legally purchased Wii U game on your PC. You're mixing elements and ending up with an unsound connection.

Am I wrong that your implied point is that these games should only be played on original hardware? That's not a legal concern you're bringing up, at its core.
 

Vuze

Member
Nov 13, 2013
8,099
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Great, thanks for the response!
How do you make Nintendo sue those people who download the game illegally? Just contact them and give them those people's info?
is there a way to start a investigation to shut down websites with pirate game links?
I'm sure Nintendo will appreciate your valuable hints and will reward you with a cookie and the "Toad of the month" award.
Also yeah, what the other poster said. They won't sue individuals over piracy and fighting sharing sites is a pointless waste of money.
 
Sep 13, 2013
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CEMU enables you to play pirated Wii U games on your PC. If it hadn't existed you couldn't. So it's at least a little bit similar.
And a car enables you to cause a deadly accident. Is it your responsability to drive safely or are you exepted from behaving responsibly?
Buy the games you play, play them however you want. Is that so difficult to grasp?
 

Eolz

Member
Jun 1, 2014
10,192
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I will leave some facts for the anti-emulation crowd and then leave:
- Emulation is legal
- Emulation helps game preservation & enhances the experience in many cases.
- Some people emulate purchased games. This is legal.
- Some people emulate pirated games. This is not legal.
- Emulation is still legal.

- People who emulate don't care about your opinion of emulators and will continue to use emulators.
- Emulators will continue to exist regardless of how much you cry about it.
- Emulation discussion is allowed on gaf
- Saying that emulation is piracy on an emulation thread is shitting the thread
- Shitting a perfectly fine thread is not a good behaviour
- Emulation is still legal
- I use emulators
- I own a Switch
- I don't pirate

- I don't care about your opinion
- Emulation is still legal :)

Do you own a WiiU too? Wondering how you got Breath of the Wild emulated legally otherwise.

(Because yes, emulation is legal, but not under every condition)
 

GearFourth

Junior Member
Feb 20, 2016
7,034
3
350
CEMU enables you to play pirated Wii U games on your PC. If it hadn't existed you couldn't. So it's at least a little bit similar.
CEMU should require you to put your disc in to play it. Not playable through an ISO, it's closed source so they can make this happen
 

NoMoreTrolls

Banned
Jul 25, 2013
4,635
10
525
Texas, for now
Yes, that's pure piracy and wrong no matter what angle you try to look at it. It's only morally justifiable when you own the game on the actual platform you are emulating. Otherwise, you can use that logic to pirate every PC game if you own the console version...
I can appreciate this hard-line stance, but I'm probably going to borrow my friend's Wii U copy to rip it, anyway. I own it on the Switch and am very disappointed in its performance, and would love to play it with a stable frame rate. At the end of the day, I own the hardware and a port of the software. Nintendo made its money. I deserve to play that software at a modern resolution and frame rate.
 

Sini

Member
May 22, 2012
2,128
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CEMU enables you to play pirated Wii U games on your PC. If it hadn't existed you couldn't. So it's at least a little bit similar.

Fun response would also be that Wii U enables you to play pirated games on Wii U.

Edit: hah
 

MUnited83

For you.
Dec 14, 2013
26,816
1
570
Does that work when you have there is game play elements that requires the tablet?
Yep! Right click also makes the mouse emulate the gyro movement. All the tablet features are programmed. Might not be as practical as they are on the original hardware, but they do work.
 

Velikost

Member
Nov 22, 2013
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Curious as to how many of the people arguing against CEMU have a computer beefy enough to run it
 

Peltz

Member
Apr 26, 2014
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So much heat and passion.

I'm sure you're all also this heated and passionate about the morality of your iphones and nintendos being built with child slave labour.

That's a completely different topic for a different thread.
 

joecanada

Member
Nov 15, 2013
5,886
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Great, thanks for the response!
How do you make Nintendo sue those people who download the game illegally? Just contact them and give them those people's info?
is there a way to start a investigation to shut down websites with pirate game links?

the onus is completely on Nintendo or whoever owns the information to proceed with action. you can't make them sue anyone. and you can't "start" an investigation either. your basically wasting your time unless you know of major ROM sites that Nintendo may want to shut down and you contacted them. How exactly do you think you would find evidence that regular people pirate games? And how do you think that would translate to Nintendo going to court against these people in each and every case?


Nintendo should set up a hotline though if this thread is any indication.

"my neighbor is an evil pirate, I know because I heard him use the word emulation and Nintendo in the same sentence, please throw him in jail preferably for 10 years".
 

Lizardus

Member
Jul 11, 2012
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I bought 2 copies of BotW, plan to keep the WiiU copy sealed. I MIGHT emulate it in couple of years. I have emulated few games in the past but I just give up after couple of hours, its not same as playing on the original hardware.

 

Gestault

Member
Oct 18, 2012
14,311
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Curious as to how many of the people arguing against CEMU have a computer beefy enough to run it

That's totally off topic, even for the piracy sub-discussion. It's just going out of the way to lampoon the type of person making a point.
 

Napalm_Frank

Member
Jun 27, 2011
22,873
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I don't even know why people are especially concerned for piracy for this particular title. We already know it sold like hotcakes and the majority of lifetime sales have already happened.

I'm sure the fastest selling launch title in Nintendo history will survive emulation months after release.
 

Disxo

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Jul 2, 2015
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TWENTY-TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS A MONTH

Aka $264 thousand dollars a year, or $132,000 per guy. Haha
Its funny these developers are actually getting paid the money they deserve as engineers haha.
Edit: The gaming industry isnt paying well, thats what I am saying.
 

Costia

Member
Mar 8, 2013
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Don't game boxes often say something like "Licensed for use with the Wii U system"?
I edited my previous post and added the "shrink-wrap license".
Looks like some boxes say "refer to digital manual" or something like that.
Anyway, this is now about contracts law and breaking the ToS (which in some cases isn't enforcable).
The way I look at it, if you need to go to court to figure out if it's ok or not, as far as the average user is concerned it's not piracy. Since it's unreasonable to expect the average user to be a lawyer.
 
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