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[AmyS]

Unreal Engine 4 had SVOGI (a form of global illumination) in 2012, but was cut out by the time 2013 came around due to being too computationally expensive.
Probably the main reason was PS4/Xbone turned out to be well below the performance Epic expected (they wanted 2.5 TF).
So I wonder if SVOGI could be re-implemented in UE4 and work when hardware powerful enough is present that could handle it, PC and mid cycle upgraded consoles.

Edit:

Also if Polaris 10 isn't basically PS4 GPU @14nm & 2X the CUs why is AMD making a DirectX11 GPU in 2016?

BOOM. Great catch.

 

[onQ123]

I'm curious to see how much more power MS goes for in their refresh. Will they just try to match the PS4 or will it be even more substantial. I could see them going either way with it.

You understand that MS is pushing for devs to make games for UWP? that means they have free range, the next "Xbox" is already more powerful than PS4.5 if you're willing to pay for the higher specs.

So they can make cheap Xboxs that lots of people will buy & they could make powerful Xboxs that not many people buy but it really don't matter that the higher spec model don't sell much because the games will be the same with only a few code changes for the higher spec boxes & PC's

It would depend on how stable the environment was. If we are talking an identical experience to what we get now, then I'd consider it. If it turns into the android equivalent, where the company takes advantage with bloat ware and forced apps, etc, then no way. I find it hard to believe that you'd get a pure experience from HP or similar companies.

Windows 10 with a TV ready UI like Xbox One

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

So Polaris 10 has an 80w power draw, and is priced "competitive", and is a mass market GPU according to AMD. It is also interestingly enough a DX11 GPU in 2016.

I'm pretty damn confident that is a consoles GPU. Maybe its NX or maybe its PS4.5. But that thing ticks all the right boxes to be in a console

You talking about the 86W Star Wars demo? That was total (PC) system power I thought?

The GPU alone would be a ~60W low end desktop/mid range laptop part. Current PS4 is around 120-130W and first iteration PS4 was around 140-150W.

It being for NX is a very interesting thought though....

 

[El_Chino]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f1xmoz99tU

Check out The Know and the information they claim to have about the system.

Very interesting.

What's their track record?

 

[onQ123]

So Polaris 10 has an 80w power draw, and is priced "competitive", and is a mass market GPU according to AMD. It is also interestingly enough a DX11 GPU in 2016.

I'm pretty damn confident that is a consoles GPU. Maybe its NX or maybe its PS4.5. But that thing ticks all the right boxes to be in a console

It's the PS4 GPU at 14nm & now able to fit 36CUs where 18CUs at 28nm used to fit.


I say that Polaris 10 is made from PS4 going 14nm & Polaris 11 is from Xbox One going 14nm & Vega will be the monsters

 

[platina]

Very interesting.

What's their track record?

Leaked the first ever pictures of dark souls 3, they definitely have some inside connections.

It's the PS4 GPU at 14nm & now able to fit 36CUs where 18CUs at 28nm used to fit.


I say that Polaris 10 is made from PS4 going 14nm & Polaris 11 is from Xbox One going 14nm & Vega well be the monsters

Onq I would love your opinion on the video, lots of interesting things in there.

 

[AmyS]

I wanna pre-order a PS4K

 

[El_Chino]

Could be the Nintendo NX

Wouldn't that make the NX twice as powerful as the PS4?

 

[McHuj]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f1xmoz99tU

Check out The Know and the information they claim to have about the system.

Summary for those that can't watch?

 

[AmyS]

Wouldn't that make the NX twice as powerful as the PS4?

That GPU might be used in Nintendo's Supplemental Computing Device that would augment the home console's performance.

 

[Negotiator]

That GPU might be used in Nintendo's Supplemental Computing Device that would augment the home console's performance.

Nintendo Power of the Cloud (TM)?

 

[Raist]

Summary for those that can't watch?

Same as every one else essentially.

Nintendo Power of the Cloud (TM)?

Yes but only if you know the server's friend code.

 

[stryke]

Leaked the first ever pictures of dark souls 3, they definitely have some inside connections

And how's that Silent Hills on Xbox going?

Their record can be summed up as "pics or it didn't happen".

 

[Jedi2016]

My prediction:

It's like the PS4 Slim, no change in "normal" game rendering power, includes the ability to upscale everything to 4K with various bells and whistles (hardware antialiasing, sharpening and such to deal with the upscale), full support for UHD Blu-ray discs, and, I think this is the truth of the matter: completely built-in support for PSVR, without the need for the external add-on pack, which will be just for "old" PS4s, as a way to push VR for people that don't already have a PS4. This is the reason for the extra power.

I still refuse to believe that they'll split the userbase by introducing an entirely new console with its own games ("Best enjoyed on PS4K!!") in the middle of a generation, especially a generation they're currently winning.

 

[thuway]

I don't want to discount the rumours from the Know, but why would they have any idea what Sony's price point and release date will be? It's not like developers get access to that information. Outside of that- What sort of obtuse logic dictates releasing a PS4K and PSVR simulatenously? I'll buy the PS4K before the PSVR, and I'm sure plenty would agree with me.

 

[platina]

And how's that Silent Hills on Xbox going?

Their record can be summed up as "pics or it didn't happen".

The reception that demo had it would be stupid for Microsoft or even Sony not to fund it under a different name, I definitely think silent hills is being made as we speak.

 

[RoboPlato]

Also if Polaris 10 isn't basically PS4 GPU @14nm & 2X the CUs why is AMD making a DirectX11 GPU in 2016?

OK, this is certainly interesting

Isn't that GDDR5 clock higher than the current? I think it's 5.5Ghz right now.

 

[The God]

And how's that Silent Hills on Xbox going?

Their record can be summed up as "pics or it didn't happen".

They did leak Dark Souls 3 though.

That had pics

Oh yeah..lol

 

[stryke]

They did leak Dark Souls 3 though.

I know.

 

[RoboPlato]

They did leak Dark Souls 3 though.

That had pics

 

[thuway]

They did leak Dark Souls 3 though.

There is a huge difference between leaking a screen shot of a game- and

Leaking the release window, performance parameters, AND exclusive software for a yet to be announced console. Developers aren't usually privy to that sort of information, so unless they had Andrew House and Adam Boyes on the phone, I doubt they'd hear any thing like that without it coming from someone either guessing or muddying waters.

 

[AdanVC]

After the massive impact that we had with the fake pics of the NX controller this week. I'm now on #TeamFake with this rumors about the PS4K. haha

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I don't want to discount the rumours from the Know, but why would they have any idea what Sony's price point and release date will be? It's not like developers get access to that information. Outside of that- What sort of obtuse logic dictates releasing a PS4K and PSVR simulatenously? I'll buy the PS4K before the PSVR, and I'm sure plenty would agree with me.

I have to agree. I assumed from the beginning of all this that any PS4 revision would come at least in early 2017. There is a lot being suggested that is honestly confusing me.

 

[Proelite]

Also if Polaris 10 isn't basically PS4 GPU @14nm & 2X the CUs why is AMD making a DirectX11 GPU in 2016?

Source. Wtf is DDR5.

 

[RoboPlato]

I don't want to discount the rumours from the Know, but why would they have any idea what Sony's price point and release date will be? It's not like developers get access to that information. Outside of that- What sort of obtuse logic dictates releasing a PS4K and PSVR simulatenously? I'll buy the PS4K before the PSVR, and I'm sure plenty would agree with me.

Yeah, PSVR and PS4k launching at the same time is a dumb move. I'm sure there's a lot of overlap between people who would be early adopters for VR, 4k TV owners, and those who would want to get a PS4k. I know I would want the 4k sooner but a spring release alongside a major game launch would make more sense.

 

[thuway]

Yeah, PSVR and PS4k launching at the same time is a dumb move. I'm sure there's a lot of overlap between people who would be early adopters for VR, 4k TV owners, and those who would want to get a PS4k.

These rumours just don't make a lick of sense, or maybe we don't have the bigger picture. The best way to kill PSVR is to let it go out into the market place and find itself surrounded by competition from Oculus, Vie, Xbox Two, Nintendo NX, and the PS4K.

If Sony is serious about a PS4K console, they need to take their hands off the trigger and elegantly go back to the drawing board for a Q4 2017 launch. You have too much to lose when you pit your platform against one another.

 

[Guymelef]

These rumours just don't make a lick of sense, or maybe we don't have the bigger picture. The best way to kill PSVR is to let it go out into the market place and find itself surrounded by competition from Oculus, Vie, Xbox Two, Nintendo NX, and the PS4K.

If Sony is serious about a PS4K console, they need to take their hands off the trigger and elegantly go back to the drawing board for a Q4 2017 launch. You have too much to lose when you pit your platform against one another.

The problem comes when there are the same kind of rumours for XBO.
Sony probably won't take the risk of leaving a better XBO on the market for a long time.

 

[Obliterator]

You talking about the 86W Star Wars demo? That was total (PC) system power I thought?

The GPU alone would be a ~60W low end desktop/mid range laptop part. Current PS4 is around 120-130W and first iteration PS4 was around 140-150W.

It being for NX is a very interesting thought though....

Hmm was it total PC power? Though it was the GPU but if the GPU alone is 60w that is easily able to be in a console. Easy

 

[RoboPlato]

The problem comes when there are the same kind of rumours for XBO.
Sony probably won't take the risk of leaving a better XBO on the market for a long time.

I think MS' timetable is the biggest factor.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

These rumours just don't make a lick of sense, or maybe we don't have the bigger picture. The best way to kill PSVR is to let it go out into the market place and find itself surrounded by competition from Oculus, Vie, Xbox Two, Nintendo NX, and the PS4K.

If Sony is serious about a PS4K console, they need to take their hands off the trigger and elegantly go back to the drawing board for a Q4 2017 launch. You have too much to lose when you pit your platform against one another.

PSVR isn't a console though, so it doesn't compete with NX, PS4K or Xb1.1.

And the rift and vive aren't available in console form.

 

[stryke]

The reception that demo had it would be stupid for Microsoft or even Sony not to fund it under a different name, I definitely think silent hills is being made as we speak.

No, what's stupid would be Microsoft buying Silent Hill IP for billions of dollars as per The Know.

 

[RoboPlato]

No, what's stupid would be Microsoft buying Silent Hill IP for billions of dollars as per The Know.

And that it was 80% complete

 

[The God]

PSVR isn't a console though, so it doesn't compete with NX, PS4K or Xb1.1.

And the rift and vive aren't available in console form.

PSVR will still be competing with those things. "Do I buy a $400 VR headset, or put that money towards a new console?(NX, XB1+, PS4K)" is what a lot of people will be asking themselves.

 

[ekim]

Also if Polaris 10 isn't basically PS4 GPU @14nm & 2X the CUs why is AMD making a DirectX11 GPU in 2016?

Where is that from?

 

[LostDonkey]

So these 36 CU's (Compute Units I gather)

What is the Nvidia equivalent? Cuda cores? They're in the thousands though on GPU's, So would anyone be able to compare what 36 CU is equal to on an Nvidia GPU? or does it not work like that.

 

[LukasTaves]

Look at number 7

If there's any method to this looks like sony won't give the extra power directly to devs, but rather create system wide solutions (like a super high quality upscale from 1080p to 4k) like the reprojection from PSVR.

That also implies that at least for the time being they wouldn't be able to drift too much from the current ps4 architecture and keep compability.

What's the general feel about this rumor now that it seems more legitimate? The feeling in this thread seems a bit more positive than the MS threads about an XB1.5 (or whatever it will be) - at least from what I read.

And that's great, if true - people coming around to this idea more? I've been wanting to see this model in console gaming for a long while:

Year 1:
PS4
XB1

Year 3/4:
PS4+ - plays all old PS4 games; original PS4 still supported
XB1+ - plays all old XB1 games; original XB1 still supported

Year 6/8:
PS5 - plays all old PS4+ games, possibly PS4 games too; PS4+ still supported, original PS4 support is phased out
XB2 (whatever) - plays all old XB1+ games, possibly XB1 games too; XB1+ still supported, original XB1 support is phased out

...etc.



Did you miss this giant thread about comments about incremental upgrades from Phil Spencer (head of Xbox) (that created quite a bit of controversy)? http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1192339

If anything, we've actually heard more directly from MS on this topic than Sony (if Phil speaking about it doesn't count as "hearing from MS", I'm not sure what does). I wouldn't consider a rumor about the existence of a PS4+ as Sony speaking out on this, either...so if anything, MS is the only one really publicly discussing this (even if in a very limited/hypothetical way).

That said, it's too early to hear from either on this in any official way (i.e. announcement). They'll either announce at a huge event (E3), or have their own special conferences about it. Either way, it's clear to me that both are either seriously considering this route, or have something tangible in the works (I think the latter based on MS comments and this rumor)

With uwp the cutoff may be based on the game. 20 years from now a dev could make a game run on xbone if he wanted to, kinda how it's handled on phone/tablet market nowadays.

Of course, Ms/sony could dictate for how long each version should be supported, but I think the devs themselves will try to reach the widest audience possible, so I don't think support being cut off shorter than expected will be an issue. If anything it could make then last longer.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Hmm was it total PC power? Though it was the GPU but if the GPU alone is 60w that is easily able to be in a console. Easy

I think it must be because a GTX 950 has a TDP of ~90W and also the small print from this slide details the system specs:

 

[Obliterator]

I think it must be because a GTX 950 has a TDP of ~90W and also the small print from this slide details the system specs:

That reinforces it for me. Polarus 10 suuuuure sounds like a console GPU. Now what it could go in who knows but it certainly fits the profile

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

That reinforces it for me. Polarus 10 suuuuure sounds like a console GPU. Now what it could go in who knows but it certainly fits the profile

I think it's their attempt at a console APU or a notebook apu.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I think it's their attempt at a console APU or a notebook apu.

It sure would make for a sweet NX. I think it would be too 'weak' for Sony or MS.

 

[Blanquito]

It's the PS4 GPU at 14nm & now able to fit 36CUs where 18CUs at 28nm used to fit.


I say that Polaris 10 is made from PS4 going 14nm & Polaris 11 is from Xbox One going 14nm & Vega well be the monsters

Uh, the xbox1 apu is bigger than the ps4apu, due to esram space on the die.

 

[Obliterator]

It sure would make for a sweet NX. I think it would be too 'weak' for Sony or MS.

Not if it is a mid gen refresh. Its certainly too weak for a PS5 or Next Gen Xbox though

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

It sure would make for a sweet NX. I think it would be too 'weak' for Sony or MS.

Nintendo doesn't use APU's as of yet though. Heck, we've not even heard of them going X86 at this point, unless I missed something.

 

[ethomaz]

Uh, the xbox1 apu is bigger than the ps4apu, due to esram space on the die.

It is bigger today... with 36CUs PS4 APU will be way bigger.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

That reinforces it for me. Polarus 10 suuuuure sounds like a console GPU. Now what it could go in who knows but it certainly fits the profile

Actually thinking about it some more and that particular chip is really low power. The claim is the GTX 950 system consumed 140W and given the 90 TDP that would leave 50W for the rest of the system. That would mean the Polaris 10 chip here would be just 46W.

 

[jax]

Slim with 4K support for gaming, but gaming resolution remains at 1080p

Am I missing something here?

 

[Vena]

Not if it is a mid gen refresh. Its certainly too weak for a PS5 or Next Gen Xbox though

I wonder what the ramifications are on changing graphics architecture mid-gen, though. That's no minor shift.

A GPU/APU like this would make more sense in hardware not beholden to another standard (like, say, a PS5 or an X2) if for nothing more than the fact that you won't need to have some very divergent optimization pathways in development.

 

[El_Chino]

Am I missing something here?

Up scaling.

 

[onQ123]

Ellesmere is Polaris 10 & Baffin is Polaris 11 now guess who would be the 2 major OEMs?

Sony & Microsoft

http://wccftech.com/amd-16nm-ellesmere-baffin-arctic-islands-taped-out-2016-production/



Polaris 11 has more GPUs (why does that matter?) because MS is making Windows 10 devices that are basically Xbox One SoCs that will go into Laptops , STBs , TVs & other Windows 10 devices like HoloLens.

 

[draughn101]

I'll take one for the base of my surface book please and thank you.