Eurogamer: Valve allowing consumers to make choices is "arrogant", "cowardly",

#1
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-06-07-steams-content-policy-is-both-arrogant-and-cowardly

The astonishing arrogance that underlies this delusion can be found in this passage of Johnson's blog: "If you're a player, we shouldn't be choosing for you what content you can or can't buy. If you're a developer, we shouldn't be choosing what content you're allowed to create. Those choices should be yours to make." Guess what, Valve: we still have those choices regardless of what you do. As huge as Steam is, it does not actually have a global hegemony on video game distribution. Other ways of making, distributing and playing games exist, but Valve appears to think that by removing a game from the Steam store it is effacing it from existence. It has confused itself with national governments, the internet, society itself. It actually thinks it has absolute power.
It's kind of odd how these venues want big business to control products and hold them back do to some sort of subjective "moral obligation", but get butthurt when they say they don't care. It is dissonant to claim that corporations should police speech you dislike while decrying other forms of corporate power. Do they realize these opposite actions are both the practice of free speech? That comparing a game (which is not, in Eurogamer's argument, faulty) to faulty electrical equipment makes no sense?

I see their argument that Steam is flooded with shit games, so I have to ask. . .where are they, in the sense of exposure? I don't see them flooding the sales. I don't see them advertised. I see mostly AAA games and decently rated/popular games being promote. It's like they missed that Steam DOES promote certain games, but still allows the yuri simulators and massacre games a place to sell because 1) they get money, and 2) Valve built itself up from a small company - they have some amount of empathy, especially when Point 1 is is involved.

Will you ever see Hatred given a place on the frontpage? Nope, but it's there. Do we really want a corporation deciding what we should think for us?
 
Last edited:
#3
All the bitching about this policy just screams of people wanting to shirk all personal responsibility. It's a free market, trash will sink to the bottom and be forgotten and good games will still stay on top. I'm glad for the policy change. I can decide if I want to buy something or not. And if children are getting ahold of things they shouldn't, that lack of accountability falls on the parent. It seems a very sjw/hard left stance on censorship.

It just seems all these articles are just making up outrage for the sake of clicks.
 
Last edited:
#5
That's exactly true. Fuck useless parasites that think they have no responsibilities and countries are build on cash and iPods. There's a reason why we have laws, justice and regulations.
 
#6
How is it arrogant to provide a platform that lets companies make the games they want to make and provides a way for fans to play the games they want to play?

Valve's decision is the opposite of arrogance. It would be arrogant for Valve to silence any games that don't adhere to specific social and political ideologies.

This issue shows, once again, how disconnected the gaming journalists are from people who actually play games.

This is how gaming journalists are coming across:
 
Last edited:
#7
That's exactly true. Fuck useless parasites that think they have no responsibilities and countries are build on cash and iPods. There's a reason why we have laws, justice and regulations.
It's essentially a first amendment issue. You don't have the right to incite violence or panic. But you also DON'T have the right to be NOT offended. Valve already stated they will remove anything illegal. So I'm not sure why you think this.
 
#8
It's essentially a first amendment issue. You don't have the right to incite violence or panic. But you also DON'T have the right to be NOT offended. Valve already stated they will remove anything illegal. So I'm not sure why you think this.
Valve didn't state anything, also they didn't or can't change their guidelines which already "stated" that they'll remove illegal game, not because that's a choice but because that's law.

Their recent state basically wants to cater to alt-rightists while avoid responsibilities in the cases things happen. It simply means they've found a new twisted EULA wording to avoid liability for publishing illegal content which fortunately will not work anywhere outside in the US.
 
#9
Valve didn't state anything, also they didn't or can't change their guidelines which already "stated" that they'll remove illegal game, not because that's a choice but because that's law.

Their recent state basically wants to cater to alt-rightists while avoid responsibilities in the cases things happen. It simply means they've found a new twisted EULA wording to avoid liability for publishing illegal content which fortunately will not work anywhere outside in the US.
catering to the alt-right. valve is now the jordan peterson of gaming lol.
 
Last edited:
#10
Valve didn't state anything, also they didn't or can't change their guidelines which already "stated" that they'll remove illegal game, not because that's a choice but because that's law.

Their recent state basically wants to cater to alt-rightists while avoid responsibilities in the cases things happen. It simply means they've found a new twisted EULA wording to avoid liability for publishing illegal content which fortunately will not work anywhere outside in the US.
They specifically said illegal or trolling. Why would you be an advocate for censorship? Why not excercise personal responsibility instead of trying to push what you believe is right on anyone else? Yelling loudly or calling people names won't make anyone change their mind.
 
Last edited:
#11
Imagine mistaking Valve being cheap and lazy (they'd have to hire curators, since the VN fiasco showed their algorithms are easily gamed) for a principled stand.
 
#12
These insane reactions show just how disconnected videogaming journalists truly are from their own market and the advertising-targets and consumers who pay their bills.

Look, Valve doesn't have to censor content unless the law demands it. What exactly is wrong about that? Would you want a Christian Fundamentalist or a terrorist organization or a... *gasp* fascist political party doing the same sort of censorship on content you agreed with?

It's funny to watch the same eye-opening changes we're seeing in politics occur in the gaming sphere. These angry reactions to Valve's decision is literally "manufactured outrage". No right-minded PC gamer would actually cheer for limiting what's on a storefront on the most open platform in existence. And then trying to lump this in as "Valve just doesn't want to curate broken games, either" is insulting to anyone who reads it.

Curating content by removing broken videogames is different than actively removing, blocking, or censoring games that have legal content that you simply don't happen to agree with ideologically.
 
#13
Valve didn't state anything, also they didn't or can't change their guidelines which already "stated" that they'll remove illegal game, not because that's a choice but because that's law.

Their recent state basically wants to cater to alt-rightists while avoid responsibilities in the cases things happen. It simply means they've found a new twisted EULA wording to avoid liability for publishing illegal content which fortunately will not work anywhere outside in the US.
They already removed illegal content. What's your point?

Also, please Weyland-Yutani-senpai, tell us what to believe! We need your guidance! We are too stupid to live without it, so don't be arrogant and think we aren't!
 
#14
Quite the opposite, this is a gutsy decision. They are basically not caving.

I wonder if people that were supporting games to be taken off or not accepted on Steam now they won't get anything from them... It would make sense since apparently Steam is not that big of a deal in the PC gaming environment and they are clashing directly with their values...
 
#15
Imagine mistaking Valve being cheap and lazy (they'd have to hire curators, since the VN fiasco showed their algorithms are easily gamed) for a principled stand.
Hence Point 1. I do think there is a bit of Point 2 in there as well. Valve is one of those true American success stories, and they did it in a way where allowing the little guy foster makes them money. It's a wonderful thing.
 
#16
I honestly thought it'd be Vice that hit this "hot take" first. I expected it, yet I'm still disappointed that people still feel the need to police each other's tastes.

Valve's stance on this was the first bit of optimistic gaming news I've heard in quite a while, so they can't spoil that for me (yet).
 
#17
Quite the opposite, this is a gutsy decision. They are basically not caving.

I wonder if people that were supporting games to be taken off or not accepted on Steam now they won't get anything from them... It would make sense since apparently Steam is not that big of a deal in the PC gaming environment and they are clashing directly with their values...
The irony is that this was all prompted by a Chris-Con prude group getting "smut" removed from Steam.

Those criticizing Valve are literally allying with Jack Thompson 2.0.
 
#19
My only concern is how much just trashware is on Steam. Basically, anyone can put on a quarter ass made game and sell it for a few bucks, and there's zero quality control. Thankfully, refunds have helped in that regard, but it isn't perfect.

But anyone advocating for censorship of any kind if arrogant As long as it isn't illegal, who cares. And as long as you can get refunded if the game just isn't good quality, then that's a safety valve, pun intended. But when it comes to moral objections, Valve should have nothing to do with it. Good on them for not caving in, which is pretty rare these days for a company based in the pacific northwest.
 
#20
I
Valve didn't state anything, also they didn't or can't change their guidelines which already "stated" that they'll remove illegal game, not because that's a choice but because that's law.

Their recent state basically wants to cater to alt-rightists while avoid responsibilities in the cases things happen. It simply means they've found a new twisted EULA wording to avoid liability for publishing illegal content which fortunately will not work anywhere outside in the US.
I didn't know I was an alt-rightist.

How can I check for how long have I been alt-righting?

If corporations need to avoid responsability in order to be able to publish stuff regardless of how hard a certain group of people on Twitter yell, I hope more of them do the same.

I don't care if it's the right, left, center of whatever the group asking for something to be removed: nobody has the right to decide for other people. I'd hate KFC was banned because vegans decided it was bad for society.
 
#22
Yep. We’ve reached peak ‘tard mode when psuedo-intellectuals are advocating for their rights to be taken away.

Seriously, how fucking brainwashed and dumb does one have to be to welcome censorship in any form?

Someone invent a time machine so these guys can go back to the 1950s and be content with Leave it to Beaver episodes. At least they’ll have awesome music to listen to.

Dumb people need to be protected from themselves.
 
#24
Their recent state basically wants to cater to alt-rightists while avoid responsibilities in the cases things happen. It simply means they've found a new twisted EULA wording to avoid liability for publishing illegal content which fortunately will not work anywhere outside in the US.

Back in my day, kids derided censorship and labels. Tipper Gore was someone to be ridiculed and protested... Nowadays she'd be celebrated for getting the filth off the streets. Those who Champion corporate censorship won't realize they will despise the outcome until after they get what they want and it's too late.

For those who don't know who Tipper Gore is, or those who do

It's so sad people are advocating for the bad guys nowadays and think they are waving the flag of righteousness.
 
Last edited:
#25
Yeah Eurogamer! You tell em! Fuck pro consumer policies. We need the high ups in the world to tell us what we can and can’t see!
I know people keep saying this, but it isn't what the author of the piece wants. they want to tell the corps what is ok and to get anything they don't want removed, basically they are tipper gore from the 80s attacking the music industry or jack thompson of the 00s going after violence in games.
 
#26
I know people keep saying this, but it isn't what the author of the piece wants. they want to tell the corps what is ok and to get anything they don't want removed, basically they are tipper gore from the 80s attacking the music industry or jack thompson of the 00s going after violence in games.
We'd be in a Jetson's future right now if Tipper Gore had been able to get Prince banned. Instead we just got Purple Rain. I'm okay with that.
 
#28
Valve didn't state anything, also they didn't or can't change their guidelines which already "stated" that they'll remove illegal game, not because that's a choice but because that's law.

Their recent state basically wants to cater to alt-rightists while avoid responsibilities in the cases things happen. It simply means they've found a new twisted EULA wording to avoid liability for publishing illegal content which fortunately will not work anywhere outside in the US.
Jesus Christ. So in your view, because Valve will not censor things they are basically Nazis?
I regularly send money to Steam/Valve, does that make me a nazi sympathizer?

(Seriously. Stop this hysteric hyperbole of just calling everyone and everything you disagree with Nazi. To normal people this just comes across as crazy and they will ignore everything you say.)
 
#29
Great for valve's hands off approach
Also less they get involved less people can smear them with the shit games.
nice try tho old media
 
Last edited:
#31
We'd be in a Jetson's future right now if Tipper Gore had been able to get Prince banned. Instead we just got Purple Rain. I'm okay with that.
Tipper Gore and the pmrc got Frank Zappa's Jazz from hell labeled with the infamous parental advisory explicit lyrics sticker, preventing it from being sold in certain stores Etc.

Worth noting, the album was instrumental, and it's a fantastic introduction to the stupidities of going down the route of moral righteousness.
 
#33
catering to the alt-right. valve is now the jordan peterson of gaming lol.
I think that would be the best parallel, there's a reason why Jordan Peterson is only invited and followed by alt-rightists and neo-reactionnaries: he tells them what they want to hear, but not the whole truth.

They specifically said illegal or trolling. Why would you be an advocate for censorship? Why not excercise personal responsibility instead of trying to push what you believe is right on anyone else? Yelling loudly or calling people names won't make anyone change their mind.
There's no such thing as "censorship" on Steam, I don't really care that people are so degenerate (uneducated by not fault of their own) that they don't understand basic principles that republican societies are built on, but censorship only applies to speech that is legal and protect by freedom as for every other rights, what is illegal however is exactly where freedom insures that people can not harass, defame, aggress others...

I didn't know I was an alt-rightist.

How can I check for how long have I been alt-righting?

If corporations need to avoid responsability in order to be able to publish stuff regardless of how hard a certain group of people on Twitter yell, I hope more of them do the same.

I don't care if it's the right, left, center of whatever the group asking for something to be removed: nobody has the right to decide for other people. I'd hate KFC was banned because vegans decided it was bad for society.
No you don't, and that's good. Because if you were a pedophile advocate or a hate-incitation group, I'm very glad that everywhere in the world and since democracy, I'm glad there are institution coming after you. So yes you may be an alt-right if you think people have right to do antisemitic propaganda because you don't know the difference between the basic concepts of freedom and chaos.

Back in my day, kids derided censorship and labels. Tipper Gore was someone to be ridiculed and protested... Nowadays she'd be celebrated for getting the filth off the streets. Those who Champion corporate censorship won't realize they will despise the outcome until after they get what they want and it's too late.

It's so sad people are advocating for the bad guys nowadays and think they are waving the flag of righteousness.
Oh yeah I so remember the days in the 90s when people supported pedophile advocacy, racist propaganda and public bomb threats...what an era...which never existed and just shows how frighteningly ignorant you are about basic concepts of freedom of speech, just freedom in fact.
 
Last edited:
#35
I


I didn't know I was an alt-rightist.

How can I check for how long have I been alt-righting?

If corporations need to avoid responsability in order to be able to publish stuff regardless of how hard a certain group of people on Twitter yell, I hope more of them do the same.

I don't care if it's the right, left, center of whatever the group asking for something to be removed: nobody has the right to decide for other people. I'd hate KFC was banned because vegans decided it was bad for society.
Here’s how you check if you are Alt Right and for how long. This only applies on the internet, results vary outside the internet.

Find the last comment you made that wasn’t hyperbole or a simple statement that something is gross or disgusting.

That’s how long you been Alt Right. Again only on the internet.
 
#36
People called valve names when they policed their store, and now will call them names because they don't.

You can't make every game journalist website happy.
 
#37
I still don't understand how someone can get a job as a journalist for a certain type of subject and be so out of touch with everything. This makes me feel like the system that Elon Musk suggested really should be a thing. If anything, there should be a newswatch type of web site. One that people can report these types of articles and explain their reasoning for reporting it as being out of touch entirely. Create some sorta accountability for them since their bosses are clearly not paying attention.

Also LOL@anyone saying that creating a system of freedom is anything negative.
 
#38
Valve's focus should be complying with the local laws of each market (which can vary wildly on a variety of topics), and banning software that is detrimental to the security or or functionality of a customer's PC. "Offensive" is too subjective a term to be taken seriously in terms of content moderation.
 
#39
There's no such thing as "censorship" on Steam, I don't really care that people are so degenerate (uneducated by not fault of their own) that they don't understand basic principles that republican societies are built on, but censorship only applies to speech that is legal and protect by freedom as for every other rights, what is illegal however is exactly where freedom insures that people can not harass, defame, aggress others...
censorship doesn't require a government action. private organizations and people can censor as well.

http://ncac.org/resource/what-is-censorship
Not all forms of censorship are illegal. When private individuals agitate to eliminate TV programs they dislike, or threaten to boycott the companies that support those programs with advertising dollars, they are certainly trying to censor artistic expression and interfere with the free speech of others. But their actions are perfectly legal; in fact, their protests are protected by the First Amendment right to freedom of speech.
https://www.aclu.org/other/what-censorship
Censorship, the suppression of words, images, or ideas that are "offensive," happens whenever some people succeed in imposing their personal political or moral values on others. Censorship can be carried out by the government as well as private pressure groups.
its not illegal or unconstitutional for private censorship, its still censorship. might want to do a little research before calling someone uneducated.
 
#40
It's all about the culture war. The left pretty much controls Hollywood, books, music, TV. comics, education, hell, even sports reporting. They are afraid that people, especially children, might be exposed to non-leftist viewpoints in gaming. Never mind that most large companies are fully onboard, they are afraid of indie games, you might get another Minecraft with its outspoken creator
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
#41
Quite the opposite, this is a gutsy decision. They are basically not caving.

I wonder if people that were supporting games to be taken off or not accepted on Steam now they won't get anything from them... It would make sense since apparently Steam is not that big of a deal in the PC gaming environment and they are clashing directly with their values...
It is indeed a gutsy decision, because this is the first time a major "walled garden" app (pardon the term) platform is going to shift specifically toward allowing adult content rather than tightening restrictions on it instead. It is already extremely controversial, and is not the safe play for Valve here. The safe play would be the Apple-like status quo.

I don't have any particular interest in whatever content pops up in the wake of this, mind you, nor do I think most people have any trouble finding adult content and/or hu-man sexual interaction without Valve or any other app platform's assistance here in 2018.

It's a clear anti-censorship move and it's a very interesting one. I'm curious to see how it will play out and how game development -- especially in the West, where adult content games are not really produced currently -- will react to a major distribution channel like Steam opening up like this. There is money to be made.
 
#43
I really didn't want to to respond to the Eurogamer article because sometimes the only way to win is not take part right?

These insane reactions show just how disconnected videogaming journalists truly are from their own market and the advertising-targets and consumers who pay their bills.
Similar to the reaction I had trying to read the guys rant - it's literally a hairs breath off insane. Maybe he got jet lag going to E3 and then had a drink too many.

I don't think there is anything in that article any reasonable person should be expected to respond to.

Has the author ever heard of libertarianism or laisse-fair economics?
 
#45
It's all about the culture war. The left pretty much controls Hollywood, books, music, TV. comics, education, hell, even sports reporting. They are afraid that people, especially children, might be exposed to non-leftist viewpoints in gaming. Never mind that most large companies are fully onboard, they are afraid of indie games, you might get another Minecraft with its outspoken creator
The Fuck are you taking about? It's the Right that's all about controlling with people see and think mostly backed by Religious Dogma.
 
#47
Valve didn't state anything, also they didn't or can't change their guidelines which already "stated" that they'll remove illegal game, not because that's a choice but because that's law.

Their recent state basically wants to cater to alt-rightists while avoid responsibilities in the cases things happen. It simply means they've found a new twisted EULA wording to avoid liability for publishing illegal content which fortunately will not work anywhere outside in the US.
'If they have different tastes than me, then they are alt-right!" That is how you sound, you do realize that, right? If you don't like a game because it isn't part of your tastes (whether it be Omega Labyrinth, Criminal Girls, GTA V, Clannad, or Senran Kagura), then move on. Act like an adult and don't buy it. Just because it is available for someone who had different tastes than you doesn't mean the world is ending. It doesn't mean that the "alt right" boogyman is coming to get you. It doesn't mean that "gamer gaters" are destroying the nation.

Move on.

The Fuck are you taking about? It's the Right that's all about controlling with people see and think mostly backed by Religious Dogma.
Both sides are controlling, using different methods. The right tends to use religious dogma. The left tries to use false "moral" high grounds. Trying to insinuate that only one side does it (when both do it all the time) is disingenuous.
 
#48
Terrible piece by Eurogamer. Valve is correct here.

And for some people, they might as well have a global hegemony, judging by how many "Steam or bust" type attitudes you see from PC gamers, refusing to use Windows Store, uplay, or hell, even GOG at times.
 
#50
censorship doesn't require a government action. private organizations and people can censor as well.

http://ncac.org/resource/what-is-censorship
https://www.aclu.org/other/what-censorship

its not illegal or unconstitutional for private censorship, its still censorship. might want to do a little research before calling someone uneducated.
Censorship is illegal EVERYWHERE around the world except in degeneratistan. Freedom of Speech both regulates illegal speech AND protects legal speech. That's basic political science 101.

Again, except if you live in dumbistan, Freedom defines how a society of many individuals can live, act and speak while being guaranteed and protected to do so by rights as well as where freedom ends and acts or speech because either an impeachment or agression (verbal, psychological, physical...).

In other terms the fact that government, medias and groups have taken advantage of the laws not being enforced since the economical crisis, doesn't mean that anyone as the right to either censor or impeach what is legal neither have the right or "freedom" to promote violence, discrimination, abuse etc...