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EW: Ben Affleck promises 'a more traditional Batman' in Justice League

kurahador

Member
Mar 29, 2011
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Kinda want to see Batman forcing the others to get Justice League brand and everyone looking at him weird.
 

Alienous

Member
Jan 20, 2013
35,669
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Glad to hear that they've decided to use the character they've been given the keys to, rather than walk all over it.
 

Sulik2

Member
Apr 17, 2012
7,834
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It's fine. I'm sure most of us could take being slammed through 2+ brick walls at hundreds of miles an hour and barely feel a thing.

This is the dumbest complaint. Supes moves at super speed. He could have had his back to the walls as he flew the dude out or broken it with an arm out. The movie explicitly says he didn't kill the guy and you refuse to believe it.
 

OldRoutes

Member
Jul 31, 2013
2,132
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485
Multiculturalism my ass. That's just the line they feed Affleck to keep him interested.

Glad to hear that they've decided to use the character they've been given the keys to, rather than walk all over it.

There have been many iterations of Batman over the years, I don't know why everyone is so upset about WB wanting to try something new.
 
Sep 3, 2015
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That's good if only to quell the complaints from the people who conveniently ignore Baleman and the rest were also killers. BTAS Bats is my Batman so I'd prefer one that never killed but whatever.

It's fine. I'm sure most of us could take being slammed through 2+ brick walls at hundreds of miles an hour and barely feel a thing.

Superman couldn't possibly have shielded him from any major damage. /s
 

Alienous

Member
Jan 20, 2013
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There have been many iterations of Batman over the years, I don't know why everyone is so upset about WB wanting to try something new.

Those variations aren't within 'continuity', whereas WB is trying to build a cinematic continuity.

Deviations from the source material hamper the amount that you can pull from it later on.

They can try, of course, but if they only want to use the name of the character I would argue they should create new, not warp the old. Trust in the foundational elements of a character that's been relevant for 80 years.
 

OléGunner

Member
May 4, 2014
6,149
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Hopefully it's his last run as The Bat.

He's an awful Batman and the character is currently being destroyed; written as a murderous psycopath.

Pass.
 

Inferno313

Banned
Jun 5, 2009
14,250
0
0
Florida
He's not supposed to be a villain tho. Just a hard ass who lost his way.



Yeah, he's totally not the villain of this story.

The film would've worked a lot better if they fully commited to that idea, Superman being the clear-cut protagonist and Batman being the villain up until the third act. One of the film's many problems is that it doesn't know weather to treat Bruce as the villain or the protagonist.
 

Clear

Member
Feb 2, 2009
13,299
9,041
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Because it was terrible.

BVS Batman was perfectly in keeping the Dark Knight Returns vibe Snyder was going for, and that series was rightfully hailed as classic in its day.

I'd also add that I found BVS Batman a whole lot more relatable than ass-hat Tony Stark in Civil War.
 

Inferno313

Banned
Jun 5, 2009
14,250
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Florida
BVS Batman was perfectly in keeping the Dark Knight Returns vibe Snyder was going for, and that series was rightfully hailed as classic in its day.

I'd also add that I found BVS Batman a whole lot more relatable than ass-hat Tony Stark in Civil War.

ಠ_ಠ
 

Alienous

Member
Jan 20, 2013
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BVS Batman was perfectly in keeping the Dark Knight Returns vibe Snyder was going for, and that series was rightfully hailed as classic in its day.

I'd also add that I found BVS Batman a whole lot more relatable than ass-hat Tony Stark in Civil War.

Have you read The Dark Knight Returns? That's a Batman who tells Robin to watch his language. It's a Batman who breaks a gun in two, proclaiming it to be the weapon of cowards. It's a Batman who tells Superman to stay out of his way, before beating him up.

The only similarities are visual.
 

cr0w

Old Member
Aug 31, 2015
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OléGunner;246259316 said:
Hopefully it's his last run as The Bat.

He's an awful Batman and the character is currently being destroyed; written as a murderous psycopath.

Pass.

Currently?

Have you never watched a single other live-action Batman movie?
 

Inferno313

Banned
Jun 5, 2009
14,250
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Have you read The Dark Knight Returns? That's a Batman who tells Robin to watch his language. It's a Batman who breaks a gun in two, proclaiming it to be the weapon of cowards. It's a Batman who tells Superman to stay out of his way, before beating him up.

The only similarities are visual.

Snyder excels at masterfully capturing the iconography of a work while misunderstanding it on every level beyond that.

Watchmen is such a bizarre film in that it can simultaneously be an almost shot-for-shot adaptation of the book and still misunderstand the source material so deeply.
 

DeathoftheEndless

Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
Dec 30, 2014
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BVS Batman was perfectly in keeping the Dark Knight Returns vibe Snyder was going for, and that series was rightfully hailed as classic in its day.

Other than being an aging Batman, I don't think they are all that similar.
 

Clear

Member
Feb 2, 2009
13,299
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Have you read The Dark Knight Returns? That's a Batman who tells Robin to watch his language. It's a Batman who breaks a gun in two, proclaiming it to be the weapon of cowards. It's a Batman who tells Superman to stay out of his way, before beating him up.

The only similarities are visual.

Yeah I have, I'm just looking at it right now.

Few things: Robin in TDKR is a girl, although at times he misidentifes her as the (long dead) Jason Todd. Batman also takes sadistic pleasure in deliberately hurting thugs - there's a passage where he selects his method of approach based on that fact.

As Alan Moore mentions in the intro; Miller's version of Bats in that miniseries bridges the gap between revenge-driven psycho and noble crusader; he's a legend but a kinda compromised one. Same deal with Superman; Supes is still noble but he's hamstrung by politics and compromised as a result.
 

cr0w

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Aug 31, 2015
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Agree to disagree on that one. I consider TDK/TDKR Batman to be the worst live-action version we've gotten so far. Begins was so close to being perfect, and then we got....that. But I understand that to a lot of people that's the Batman they grew up with. Most people didn't grow up with the comics.
 

Inferno313

Banned
Jun 5, 2009
14,250
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Florida
Agree to disagree on that one. I consider TDK/TDKR Batman to be the worst live-action version we've gotten so far. Begins was so close to being perfect, and then we got....that.

jfc.

Between this and the Moonlight thread, y'all are killing me today.
 

cr0w

Old Member
Aug 31, 2015
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jfc.

Between this and the Moonlight thread, y'all are killing me today.

You have to understand I'm an old comic nerd. Baleman is farther from the traditional characterization of Batman in the second and third movies than any other adaptation so far. My perspective on the character is totally different from people who've only been exposed to him via TV and film.

He was a good Batman for the film universe that Nolan created. That's all that matters. I just personally didn't like where he took the films after Begins.

Hell, the "brutal" Batman story isn't only lifted from the TDKR comic series. It's also directly from A Lonely Place of Dying (which introduced Tim Drake) and its preceding arcs that directly dealt with Batman becoming more brutal and unhinged after Jason's death until Tim, Alfred and Dick have to step in and remind him what his original purpose was.
 

Inferno313

Banned
Jun 5, 2009
14,250
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You have to understand I'm an old comic nerd. Baleman is farther from the traditional characterization of Batman in the second and third movies than any other adaptation so far. My perspective on the character is totally different from people who've only been exposed to him via TV and film.

He was a good Batman for the film universe that Nolan created. That's all that matters. I just personally didn't like where he took the films after Begins.

Hell, the "brutal" Batman story isn't only lifted from the TDKR comic series. It's also directly from A Lonely Place of Dying (which introduced Tim Drake) and its preceding arcs that directly dealt with Batman becoming more brutal and unhinged after Jason's death until Tim, Alfred and Dick have to step in and remind him what his original purpose was.

How so, though? Like, I grew up on Batman: The Animated Series, and have read most of the biggest stories from the character's history. As a teenager, the Nolan films grabbed me because I felt like these were the first films that actually get the core of all of the characters correct. Yeah, aesthetically it diverges from the comics further than the Burton films did, that's fair. But on a character level, Bale's Batman, Caine's Alfred, Oldman's Gordon, were all much more true to the characters that I loved than any of the previous takes on those characters.
 

cr0w

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Aug 31, 2015
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How so, though? Like, I grew up on Batman: The Animated Series, and have read most of the biggest stories from the character's history. As a teenager, the Nolan films grabbed me because I felt like these were the first films that actually get the core of all of the characters correct. Yeah, aesthetically it diverges from the comics further than the Burton films did, that's fair. But on a character level, Bale's Batman, Caine's Alfred, Oldman's Gordon, were all much more true to the characters that I loved than any of the previous takes on those characters.

I loved Gordon and Alfred, thought they were phenomenal. I thought his take on Bruce in Begins was phenomenal, probably my favorite film version up until BvS hit, which became my favorite because of just how close he was to the comics I grew up reading. Pretty much every character EXCEPT Bruce in TDK/TDKR was damn near spot-on.

I don't like Bruce having a love interest that he's willing to give everything up for, for one. At the end of Begins, it's made very clear that he needs Batman as much as Gotham does, and nothing will ever change that. Both in his talks with Rachel and with Gordon, that's hammered home.

That's completely reversed in TDK with his pining for Rachel and wanting Gotham to have a new hero who doesn't have to operate in the shadows. He looks at Batman as a necessary burden until someone else can take his place, and when Gotham doesn't need him anymore, he wants to retire with Rachel and live a happy little domestic life. When that doesn't pan out, he retreats to his mansion for years and becomes a hermit, again completely ignoring the character that they established in Begins.

TDKR just felt like a half-hearted effort anyway so I won't really get into the specifics of why I don't like it since I'll be here all day, but again it really boils down to, "I don't want to do this, but I guess I have to since no one else will until I find an out to go on holiday with my lady."

I get that that's where Nolan wanted to go with the character and it works in his universe, but it's never sat right with me that he was always looking for an out so he could stop being Batman. It's just very, very far removed from who Bruce Wayne is in the comics and even in Begins. It's just a version of the character that I personally didn't like. That's not me putting down anyone else's opinions of or love for the films, it's purely my feelings on them.
 

Zero315

Banned
May 1, 2013
2,051
1
0
He's no longer The Goddamn Batman. Just Batman.

Yeah I have, I'm just looking at it right now.

Few things: Robin in TDKR is a girl, although at times he misidentifes her as the (long dead) Jason Todd. Batman also takes sadistic pleasure in deliberately hurting thugs - there's a passage where he selects his method of approach based on that fact.

As Alan Moore mentions in the intro; Miller's version of Bats in that miniseries bridges the gap between revenge-driven psycho and noble crusader; he's a legend but a kinda compromised one. Same deal with Superman; Supes is still noble but he's hamstrung by politics and compromised as a result.

Yep, everyone wanted TDKR Batman... until we got TDKR Batman, then they wanted to scream "Not muh Batmans!!1!1"
 

Bleepey

Member
Dec 21, 2008
13,574
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855
You're a curious one aren't you.


Yeah, he's totally not the villain of this story.

The film would've worked a lot better if they fully commited to that idea, Superman being the clear-cut protagonist and Batman being the villain up until the third act. One of the film's many problems is that it doesn't know weather to treat Bruce as the villain or the protagonist.

I always thought Batman was supposed to be a villain protagonist. Superman was just a guy that kept having negative shit happen to him

Have you read The Dark Knight Returns? That's a Batman who tells Robin to watch his language. It's a Batman who breaks a gun in two, proclaiming it to be the weapon of cowards. It's a Batman who tells Superman to stay out of his way, before beating him up.

The only similarities are visual.

He also, shoots criminals with guns!


Why do people insist Batman didn't kill this guy here? I mean:

1) batman shot the gun with a very powerful gun
2) bullet went through criminal as evidence by the bullet hole in the wall
3) criminal is left bleeding without any sort of emergency care being offered

Like why do people lie to themselves?
 
Sep 25, 2016
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Uh-huh. MoS ends with Super-Man screaming in anguish because he was forced to kill a Kryptonian. His very first scene in BvS he...kills a dude by smashing him through a couple walls at Superspeed.
You never know what you're gonna get with Snyder's storytelling.

He didn't actually kill that guy though.
 

Sephzilla

Member
Feb 13, 2013
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Yeah, Batman is absolutely supposed to be the villain of BvS. We just see a lot of the movie from the villains perspective instead of Superman's. The "Martha" scene is supposed to be Bruce going



Unfortunately, and this is Snyder's fault, the movie doesn't commit to it enough and doesn't make it clearer to the audience that Batman is the bad guy. It doesn't help that moments later Batman reverts back into hero-mode to help fight a video game final boss.
 

Alienous

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Jan 20, 2013
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Why do people insist Batman didn't kill this guy here? I mean:

1) batman shot the gun with a very powerful gun
2) bullet went through criminal as evidence by the bullet hole in the wall
3) criminal is left bleeding without any sort of emergency care being offered

Like why do people lie to themselves?

Because he doesn't kill anyone - the rest of the story makes no sense if you intepret that scene as him killing the mutant gang memeber. Batman's aversion to killing the Joker, when he's similarly holding people hostage, makes no sense. Comissioner Yindel finally adding murder charges to The Batman's criminal record, after intepreting him as killing The Joker, makes no sense if he can be placed at a crime scene with a dead mutant there.

It's a wishful intepretation that he killed the mutant you linked the image of, as intepreting it as a shoulder shot is as valid.
 

Sethista

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May 15, 2013
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The most interesting part of bvs to me was the jaded batman who after decades of fighting an endless battle that can never be truly won witthout breaking his one rule, decided to say fuck it, specially after losing robin.

His focus on brute force because of age was awesome as well.

I am sad that they are dropping it. I hoped the batman was going to be that story and how he broke to be the batman in bvs. Still think its the most interesting direction they could go.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
Nov 16, 2012
35,965
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Vancouver
When this "trilogy" is over, I wonder how it will be viewed as a whole once people step back. Will this supposed arc for Superman actually work out, or will JL not be able to remotely justify the choices made by Snyder's two previous films.

Same with Batman. I would be amazed if I came away from Justice League thinking back on BvS and feeling more accepting of the off-putting creative choices that movie made.


I don't think on paper, the ideas of these films are all bad. But the execution has been such a mess. God I hope JL actually comes out atleast somewhat okay.